Siouan tongue twisters?

[George Wilmes]

Hi Saul,

In the ancient and venerable Colorado Siouan Archive, there is something
very similar in one of Lowie's word lists, which was keypunched as follows:

1 TSIPAPU*':C
2 CHIPMUNK, SQUIRREL
3 NOUN
4 TSIPAPU*':C ITSU*':P BAKU*TA BACO*':RITSI'HTSE ASA*'HKA
  RU*':P DU*TSE O':PI*': ICDE R"E*'6XE
5 THE CHIPMUNK ALONGSIDE OF A SHINBONE GETS HOLD OF BOTH SIDES
  OF A MEDICINE-ROCK AND SMOKES WITH A GLOSSY EYE
  (A TONGUE-TWISTER, TOLD BY +MAX +BIG-MAN)
11 +P. 164

I believe the source for that transcription was this book:

http://www.ucpress.edu/op.php?isbn=9780520007741

Here is the particular page in the book:

http://books.google.com/books?id=27TpGhZ9dWoC&pg=PA164&dq=lowie+crow+word+lists+chipmunk&hl=en&sa=X&ei=T_2DUu7gENSA2QWuoICwDw&ved=0CC8Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=lowie%20crow%20word%20lists%20chipmunk&f=false




On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 11:17 AM, Saul Schwartz <sschwart at princeton.edu>wrote:

> Hello all (and especially Randy),
>
> A colleague has been doing archival research on Lowie's fieldwork and
> found in his notes a Crow tongue twister listed as told by Max Big-Man.
> I've attached a photo.
>
> I won't try to type out the Crow here, but it looks like Lowie was
> collecting a series of words related to the verb "hang" that all included
> -tsiky (e.g. awi'kyotsiky, 'I hung something over'), and the tongue twister
> begins tsi- and has a lot of tsi and tse sequences in it, so maybe that's
> what prompted his consultant to tell it.
>
> Lowie's English gloss, as far as I can make out, is: "Chipmunk shinbone
> [illegible] of it medicine rock gets a hold on both side smokes with
> glen[?] eye."
>
> If anyone recognizes this tongue twister or knows what it's saying, my
> colleague and I are curious and would appreciate any insight you could
> share.
>
> Best,
> Saul
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 9:45 PM, Saul Schwartz <sschwart at princeton.edu>wrote:
>
>> Just want to thank everyone who responded to my question and contributed
>> to this discussion, especially Randy for coming up with the Lowie reference!
>> All best,
>> Saul
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 1:21 PM, Jimm G. GoodTracks <
>> jgoodtracks at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>   Jill:  Aho, Pi ke.  Saul is the one to ask about ELAN. Last summer he
>>> and another woman at KU coached me on the use of the program.  I am aware
>>> of its several useful applications, but not on how to enable the functions,
>>> sorts, sounds, etc.   I was a poor dense student for Saul who gave up in
>>> exasperation of my natural inept denseness.  Like yourself, I have enough
>>> on my desk right now that any attempt to upload more instructions,
>>> information, etc. would only overload my system, causing undue delays to my
>>> current delays.
>>>
>>> But being you are blessed with a sharp mind and quick aptitude, you sure
>>> will master the program with the right instructor.  Keep posted on all the
>>> interesting stuff going on over at your camp.  I am down to the final two
>>> scripts of Film III.  I think I’ll celebrate when all done.
>>>
>>> We will miss you at Conference, but realize you are having an
>>> adventurous time in DC.
>>> Jimm
>>>
>>>  *From:* Greer, Jill <Greer-J at MSSU.EDU>
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, May 16, 2013 1:59 PM
>>> *To:* SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
>>> *Subject:* Re: Siouan tongue twisters?
>>>
>>>
>>> I’ll do my best, Jimm.   You’re right,  I owe it to those elders.  Good
>>> news, I have a new laptop, and I downloaded ELAN last night.  Wasn’t it the
>>> one Iren and Dave Rood were so excited about last year?  I’m hoping to get
>>> some video material started, but learning new software is not really my
>>> strong suit.  Any advice from you all on using ELAN?  I also downloaded the
>>> Doulos font from SIL, and I think I actually installed it on my Mac, which
>>> didn’t want to let me use any non-Mac material….
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jill
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] *On Behalf
>>> Of *Jimm G. GoodTracks
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, May 12, 2013 9:50 AM
>>> *To:* SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
>>> *Subject:* Re: Siouan tongue twisters?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, Jill!
>>>
>>> Do go through “all my field notes” and doing that in the near future
>>> rather than the indefinite “whenever.”  The kind of findings/ anecdotes/
>>> statements gleaned from our late Ioway, Otoe-Missouria (IOM) Elders who are
>>> worthy to be included in the encyclopedic entries of the revised IOM
>>> Dictionary.   I am including statements, discussions from present day
>>> tribal members as well, such as stated in Email correspondence and on a
>>> more grand scale, the recent award winning documentary film “The Lost
>>> Nation:  The Ioway” (Parts I, II, III), by the highly recognized film
>>> makers, Kelly & Tammy Rundle of Fourth Wall Films, Moline, Ill.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> By the way, I am going to make a committed effort to *complete* all
>>> scheduled IOM Dictionary entries in the next three year AT MAX, and then, I
>>> will transfer the working files to CD in preparation for sending all to a
>>> printer for producing a *Hard Copy and distribution.*  That would be
>>> approximately Dec, 2016.  Forty three years in the compiling and production
>>> of an ultimate and excellent IOM Dictionary is sufficient for one life time
>>> (my opinion).  We all know that dictionary work is endless, and one needs
>>> draw the line.  I’ll be 73yo at that time, my grandson Sage PagranDahe will
>>> be 11yo, and on the verge of middle school years.  I will be needing to
>>> give attention to this.  I’d prefer he accomplish these years in Antigua,
>>> where Private Schools Education have high standards without the gauntlet of
>>> state tests as teaching standards, and also there is less negative learning
>>> from unfortunate peers who come from homes/ families with low standards &
>>> lax supervision of their children.  It was my experience in Lawrence with
>>> my children and grandchildren that while the Lawrence middle schools and
>>> staff are excellent in all other aspects, the influence from the flow of
>>> all manner of children from diversified backgrounds interfered with our
>>> family and lead to much chaos, confusion and visits with/ to the juvenile
>>> system and courts, where I came well known, but which served in the rapid
>>> custody of Hintagwa when his parental family (my son) disintegrated.  I
>>> want to spare Hintagwa a possible repeat of these ill scenarios.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> However, bottom line may be that I will not locate a preferred Antigua
>>> private middle schools with a fully balanced curriculum.  In which case, I
>>> have identified the near to White Cloud private Sacred Heart School in
>>> Falls City, NE (a full 1~12year school) as an alternative, which offers
>>> tailored small classes, and student focused attention with high academic
>>> achievement among students within the state educational standards.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So, it is imperative that between you there, Saul in Princeton (at the
>>> moment) that we strive and commit to completing the Ioway Otoe (IOM)
>>> grammars (professional/ lay grammars) and any undone work that should be
>>> included into the hard copy print of the unabridged exhaustive resource
>>> Dictionary.  Anecdotes and conversations such as you and Saul shared below
>>> are precious, and mostly none-existent in the contemporary acculturated/
>>> assimilated three communities in Kansas & Oklahoma.  I realize your busy,
>>> but we ALL are busy.  It is timely to complete long delayed tasks so that
>>> the information may be shared with and for the common good of both the
>>> Báxoje Jiwére Native communities, the public domain and Academia.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I trust and pray you take heed of this advisory.  Remember what our
>>> Elders, their words they shared with us, namely:
>>>
>>> Ix^án swíhsje ke;  Ama ch^é tórigi áre ke.  Hánwegi dagúre^sun
>>> hin^unsdunwi ke.  Tanhéda hintúgan Bi mángrida dáhahajena  aréchi xáme
>>> gigrúnje taho.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Gasunhsji  hadádana ke.  Tórigunda
>>>
>>> Jimm
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Greer, Jill <Greer-J at MSSU.EDU>
>>>
>>> *Sent:* Saturday, May 11, 2013 11:59 PM
>>>
>>> *To:* SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: Siouan tongue twisters?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks, Saul -  Actually, Grandpa Truman still talked about the number
>>> 888 -  he would just laugh about it.  I can't remember any more right now,
>>> but if I ever get to go through all my field notes...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> of course, the sound symbolism he enjoyed too -  the word for sneeze was
>>> SO dead on target soundwise -  he?shi (sorry, no keyboard symbols here -
>>> it's a glottal stop, and the sh is as in English..)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Jill Greer
>>>
>>>
>>>  ------------------------------
>>>
>>> *From:* Siouan Linguistics [SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] on behalf of Saul
>>> Schwartz [sschwart at PRINCETON.EDU]
>>> *Sent:* Saturday, May 11, 2013 2:54 PM
>>> *To:* SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
>>> *Subject:* Siouan tongue twisters?
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> Just wanted to share an amusing anecdote I encountered when I was in the
>>> American Philosophical Society Library recently going through Gordon
>>> Marsh's correspondence with Franz Boas.
>>>
>>> The following is in a letter from Marsh, dated August 6, 1936, updating
>>> Boas on the progress of his fieldwork with Chiwere speakers near Perkins,
>>> Oklahoma:
>>>
>>> "I can say a few words and simple sentences and can ask for food at the
>>> table. The Indians get a great kick out of hearing me talk.
>>>
>>> Sometimes I read them parts of my text, a lot of which they have never
>>> heard, and they say it sounds very natural to them and they all understand
>>> it.
>>>
>>> They are pleased when I say 8888 for them. It is supposed to be the
>>> hardest thing to say and some of them say they can’t say it themselves. It
>>> is simply:
>>>
>>> kóge glelábliⁿ gléblaⁿ húyaⁿ glelábliⁿnaⁿ gléblaⁿ glelábliⁿ aglíⁿ
>>> glelábliⁿ."
>>>
>>> While I know that tongue twisters are a recognized form verbal play and
>>> source of amusement in many languages, this is the first time I've come
>>> across a Siouan one.
>>>
>>> If there are other examples of Siouan tongue twisters, I'd be interested
>>> to hear about them.
>>>
>>> Be well,
>>> Saul
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>
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