Looking for "thunder" and "lightning" information

[Mcbride, Justin]

Sky,

The Ks term that Dorsey writes as "Lu" is more properly lo (or maybe loo --
you'd have to ask Bob about the vowel length on this one). Dorsey writes
most instances of KS /o/ with the grapheme u, presumably because of his
long-standing OP influence or maybe 'cos it's articulated a little higher
than English /o/. I can also say that Ks and Os /l/ in the most modern
period is a reflex of some velar plus some approximant, probably *gl in the
case of Ks, as can be seen in certain conservative names like gledaN,
'hawk.' So, lo is probably a reflex of *glo, which is surely cognate with
Maximilian's IOM "gron," though I can't account for the presence or absence
of nasalization. That said, in Ks, lo definitely refers not to thunder, but
to what Dorsey calls the "Thuder-being," probably the thunder bird, and the
respective clan named after said being. Now, when added to hottaN,
'characteristic sound,' you get lohottaN, 'thunder,' which literally refers
to the characteristic sound of the thunder bird. I know nothing about *lo
li or *lo lu in Ks; if it exists, it's news to me. But that's all I got,
and I'm not around a dictionary right now.

All the best,
-Justin


On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 2:21 PM, Campbell, Sky <sky at omtribe.org> wrote:

> I’m looking for some feedback (and cognates if applicable) on some terms
> for “thunder” and “lightning.”****
>
> ** **
>
> For the thunder term, I am trying to find information on Maximilian’s
> terms for thunder which are “gron-gron” and “wahkonda-gron-gron”.  I am
> trying to figure out what his term “gron” is.  Maximilian notes the “on” is
> pronounced as it is in French which would be our nasal “ą”.  So this term
> would be “grą” or the reduplicated version “grągrą.”  Any suggestions on
> what that may be?  I have two theories in mind and both come from other
> terms from Maximilian.  First is his term “gra-ah” (gra’a) which he has as
> shout or “give the warhoop.”  The other is his term “groͣn-rä” (email
> formatting won’t let me show the accented “á” above the “o” like the source
> has it) which would be “grąre” which he translates as “great.”  Those are
> just speculations right now.  It should also be noted that he gives
> lightning as “wáhkonda-gron” (same as thunder but without the
> reduplication).  And it may be a stretch but I’m wondering if this “grą” is
> somehow related to our current “k’o” for thunder.****
>
> ** **
>
> Any thoughts?****
>
> ** **
>
> Maximilian’s term for lightning seems to be a variant of thunder so
> figuring out thunder will help with lightning.  So my question about
> lightning isn’t about that variant but another.  Nowadays we have:****
>
> ** **
>
> rugri/rugrį****
>
> ** **
>
> Then I was reading Dorsey’s “The Religions of Siouan Tribes” and he notes,
> “The Kansa tell the following: During the first thunder-storm of the year,
> the Lu or Thunder-Being people put a quantity of green cedar on a fire,
> making a dense smoke.”  With “Lu”, he is talking about a Kaw clan.  And
> with “r” and “l” being interchangeable in many materials, it has me
> thinking of our “rugri” and has me wondering if our “rugri” perhaps says
> “thunder beings returned home (or here?)” (ru/lu – thunder beings + gri
> (return home).****
>
> ** **
>
> Does anyone have any information on that?****
>
> ** **
>
> And one more thing while I’m thinking about it.  In the same paper I
> mentioned above by Dorsey, he is a big fan of “Wakąnda” being translated as
> “great serpent” (waką + dana) although he does go through a few other
> possibilities.  Still, “great serpent” seems to be the translation he likes
> the best.  I can see how he came to that conclusion.  But he also notes
> that “In the Dakota language, wa-kan’ means mysterious, wonderful,
> incomprehensible;”  And in “Early Western Travels – 1748-1846, Vol. 24
> (pages 223-224), Maximilian (via Thwaites) writes, “This name is composed
> of two words; and, therefore, is not to be written as one.  The first word,
> uakan, less correctly wakan,  is the expression for god, divine,
> supernatural; the second, tanka, not tunka, means great.”****
>
> ** **
>
> So that got me thinking about our term waxoñita/xoñita for sacred/holy and
> I am curious if that “waxo-“ is related to the “waką” that Dorsey mentions
> and if the idea is really closer to the “great mysterious one” rather than
> “great serpent.”  Or do they both mean the same thing and it just depends
> on what sense you are using?  I can only think of one other instance off
> the top of my head where “xo-“ is used by itself to indicate sacred and
> that is Jimm Goodtracks’ translation of William Whitman’s term “mixoge”
> (berdache…mi- (female) + xo- (sacred) + -ge (quality of)).****
>
> ** **
>
> This is probably a loaded question but I’m interested in any information
> anyone might have on this.****
>
> ** **
>
> *Sky Campbell, B. A.*
>
> Language Director****
>
> Otoe-Missouria Tribe****
>
> 580-723-4466 ext. 111****
>
> sky at omtribe.org****
>
> ** **
>
>   ­­
>
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