Number 'nine' in Chiwere.

[Greer, Jill]

It does work for ‘sit’ -  that’s nearly a formulaic closing for prayers (and even public speaking):  se ihanaNGe khe/khi…  ‘I’m sitting here (talking)- in your direction/toward you.  I apologize that my email is also limited – I’m using NG for my eng here.

Lots of folks did have a knowledge of Plains Sign Language,  so it’s a good theory, Bob.

  But I have to say I really love the 9/expecting something connection that Pam made -  it’s a REAL stretch,  but linking up ‘sitting’ in this particular etymology  with the last month of pregnancy / or even childbirth would be extremely interesting.  Any thoughts??

Jill


From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] On Behalf Of Rory Larson
Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 3:49 PM
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
Subject: Re: Number 'nine' in Chiwere.

Nice idea!  If that works, I like it!  :)

Rory


From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] On Behalf Of Rankin, Robert L.
Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 3:34 PM
To: SIOUAN at LISTSERV.UNL.EDU<mailto:SIOUAN at LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>
Subject: Re: Number 'nine' in Chiwere.

Hmm, speculatively, you don't suppose that the "other" phonetic form of nanye, namely nąŋe, could be related to 'sit' in Ioway in the same sense that yųka and wąka are ‘to lie’ in Lakota?  The positional would describe the last bent finger in finger counting from 1 to 10.

Ok, I'll shut up now.

Bob
________________________________
From: Siouan Linguistics [SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] on behalf of Rory Larson [rlarson1 at UNL.EDU]
Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 3:22 PM
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu<mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu>
Subject: Re: Number 'nine' in Chiwere.

>  I think perhaps the Dakotan term relates to counting in sign language where 'nine' leaves one finger bent over, i.e., "lying", in the palm of the hand.  napcóka is 'palm' and yųka and wąka are ‘to lie’ in Lakota and the so-called D-dialects respectively, so I don't think Sky's term is related to the napci- part of the Dakotan term, although I'm afraid I don't have anything better to offer except the obvious fact that it looks like English 'nine', [nayn] with a metathesis of the y and n.


You’re probably right; that was a long shot.  I understand from the old Otoe-Iowa Indian Language Book I that was put out in 1977 that there is a regular difference in certain endings between Otoe and Iowa.  Where one ends in -nge the other ends in -nye.  I’ve never been quite sure about how the first was pronounced, whether that is supposed to be an eng or a nasal vowel + /g/.  nanye ought to belong to the -nye dialect, but checking the booklet that turns out to be Iowa, so I’m somewhat confused here.  It sometimes seems to equate to Omaha nasal vowel + /g/, but I wasn’t sure if it was the only thing that ending could relate to.

It’s still an interesting find, even if it does turn out to be English ‘nine’.  In this case, it would be a true borrowing, because it is thoroughly incorporated into an Otoe numerical sequence.  Also, that metathesis of y and n shows that the word was forced into an Otoe phonological structure, rather than leaving it in plain English.  Perhaps both the cumbersome, analytic terms used for ‘nine’ in so many North American languages, and the tendency to borrow the term, say something about how irregular the usage of it was?

Rory



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