Question re: Dhegiha and other Siouan quotatives

Fri Feb 28 18:32:08 UTC 2014

Sky, thanks for this!  I think I'm going to go through and compile a list
of attested Kaw serial verbs and how they're conjugated.  Bryan seems to
think that there could be a sub-category of serial verbs where the first
verb is not conjugated though the second one is.  Not sure how far I can
get with this, but I may try and present this, at least the Kaw case, as a
paper at the SCLC in May.

Dave

David Kaufman
Linguistic Anthropology PhD candidate, University of Kansas
Director, Kaw Nation Language Program

On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 12:18 PM, Campbell, Sky <sky at omtribe.org> wrote:

> Dave,
>
>
>
> Not sure if you are still into this but I found this today.  William
> Hamilton and Samuel Irvin have on page 33 of their *Elementary Book of
> the Ioway Language*:
>
>
>
> ha-u-ha-mvn-yæ – I always do so
>
>
>
> This would be:
>
>
>
> Ha’ų hamanyi
>
>
>
> ha’ų – I do
>
>
>
> hamanyi – I walk/I always
>
>
>
> Here you have both conjugated in the first person using the prefix “ha-“.
> There are other examples out there but I need to find them.
>
>
>
> Hope this helps.
>
>
>
> *Sky Campbell, B. A.*
>
> Language Director
>
> Otoe-Missouria Tribe
>
> 580-723-4466 ext. 111
>
> sky at omtribe.org
>
>
>
> *From:* Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] *On Behalf Of
> *David Kaufman
>
> *Sent:* Friday, February 21, 2014 12:54 PM
> *To:* SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
>
> *Subject:* Re: Question re: Dhegiha and other Siouan quotatives
>
>
>
> Thanks Rory and Justin for the feedback.
>
>
>
> On another note, I've also been wondering about how serial verbs are
> handled in Siouan in general.  In the Kaw data, when two verbs come
> together, the second verb always conjugates for person while the first
> looks like it can either conjugate to match the second verb or it can stay
> in the third person (neutral) form.  I seem to recall that in Biloxi,
> serial verbs *always* match, first and second verbs having the same person
> conjugation.  What do other Siouan languages do in regards to this?  Are
> there any hard and fast rules about this?
>
>
>
> Thanks again!
>
>
>
> Dave
>
>
> David Kaufman
>
> Linguistic Anthropology PhD candidate, University of Kansas
>
> Director, Kaw Nation Language Program
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 5:15 PM, Rory Larson <rlarson1 at unl.edu> wrote:
>
> Thanks for the analysis, Justin.  That makes much better sense than what I
> had suggested.  Very interesting that the Kaw (a)be particle, which should
> be either cognate or closely related to the Omaha (a)bi particle, can
> ablaut.  I wasn’t aware of that; it’s good to know.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> Rory
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] *On Behalf Of
> *Mcbride, Justin
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 20, 2014 3:00 PM
> *To:* SIOUAN at LISTSERV.UNL.EDU
> *Subject:* Re: Question re: Dhegiha and other Siouan quotatives
>
>
>
> For what it's worth, I believe that what appears to be a second token of
> aba in the example, aba-daN is actually a different type altogether. In
> this case, I think it's a case of the verb e(e), 'to say', plus the -(a)be
> completive aspect marker plus the conjunction -(a)daN, 'and'
> [e(e)-(a)be-(a)daN > aba-daN]. If so, then, that one really is just 's/he
> said and,' and the first one is actually the subject marker. But that's not
> to say that there aren't other examples of the quotative use of subject
> markers in Ks, even within the same text. Here's an example of quotative
> akHa:
>
>
>
> iccikkitaNga akha oo aNs^i waali miNkHe akHa.
>
> The Old Man said, "Oh, I'm getting fat."
>
>
>
> This case is much clearer to my way of thinking because there are two
> verbal auxiliaries marking the same state (in this case, at rest)
> back-to-back, one of which refers to 1st person (miNkHe, part of the
> quotation), and one 3rd person (akHa, marks quotation). It's curious to
> note that in the audio for this, the speaker laughs after miNkHe and then
> almost catches her breath before saying akHa, which would indicate to me
> that she felt it was essential for concluding the sentence. It's
> interesting to me in that it seems that the entire quoted clause is acting
> almost like a verb following the canonical pattern (subject) SUBJ (verb)
> AUX, where SUBJ and AUX match shape in the continuative aspect, as in
> s^idoz^iNga akHa ghaage akHa, 'the boy is crying.'
>
>
>
> -jtm
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 1:50 PM, Rory Larson <rlarson1 at unl.edu> wrote:
>
> Hi Dave,
>
>
>
> In Omaha and Ponca, the corresponding article is amá, where you have abá.
> As with Kaw, it tends to imply ‘moving/absent’.  But we also have another
> particle, apparently pronounced the same way, coming at the end of the
> sentence, that implies that the foregoing is hearsay rather than solid
> fact.  It can stand by itself, or it can be coupled with the ‘allegedly’
> particle bi to make the common ending for 3rd person hearsay action,
> biama.
>
>
>
> I notice the accent changes to the first syllable in the second case of
> your example.  I wonder if that could be underlyingly a-aba in that case?
> The first would be the ablauted version of ‘he said it’, followed by either
> the Old Man’s article abá or a ‘hearsay’ particle as in OP.  One problem
> with that would be that the ‘hearsay’ amá in OP shouldn’t cause a preceding
> verb to ablaut.
>
>
>
> My $0.02.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> Rory
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] *On Behalf Of
> *David Kaufman
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 20, 2014 1:30 PM
> *To:* SIOUAN at LISTSERV.UNL.EDU
> *Subject:* Question re: Dhegiha and other Siouan quotatives
>
>
>
> Hi all,
>
>
>
> I have a question re: a curious structure in Kaw, and whether anything
> like it occurs in other Dhegihan or even non-Dhegihan Siouan languages.
>  The structure involves the articles akhá and abá, used for subjects in Kaw
> and usually translated 'the', the first being roughly for
> 'standing/sitting' and the other for 'moving/absent'.  However, in Kaw,
> these subject articles also somehow seem to have become used as quotatives,
> or 's/he said.'  Here is an example sentence with gloss:
>
>
>
> *Icíkitanga  abá, “Anyáxtaga-édan,” ába-dan,  nanstábe.*
>
> Old.Man   said   bite.me-then          said-then   kicked.him
>
> The Old Man said, “Then bite me,” and he kicked him.
>
>
>
> So abá, which is normally used for 'moving' subjects and is usually
> translated 'the', is now being used for 's/he said.'
>
>
>
> Any thoughts on this, esp. from other Dhegihan perspectives, or other
> Siouan languages that might have some similar usage?
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
>
> David Kaufman
>
> Linguistic Anthropology PhD candidate, University of Kansas
>
> Director, Kaw Nation Language Program
>
>
>
>
>
>   
>
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