From linguist at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Sat Mar  1 00:22:37 2014
From: linguist at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (Bryan James Gordon)
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 17:22:37 -0700
Subject: Question re: Dhegiha and other Siouan quotatives
In-Reply-To: <003201cf34dc$a2fd6a40$e8f83ec0$@com>
Message-ID: <FRI.28.FEB.2014.172237.0700.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

I should have called them "verbs that work like 'command'" and avoided the
word "raising" altogether, which is a theoretical designation and not even
the appropriate one for that construction. In UmoNhoN Iye and PaNka Iye
"command" gets a subject and an object inflection while its complement verb
gets nothing, as in the example "unaN'aN aNthagazhi" "you commanded me to
hear about it".

Verbs like "bring" of course are another category that I totally forgot
about in my list, and those are actually the most similar to what people
tend to call "serial verbs" in theoretical linguistics. In my experience
generally both verbs in these constructions are fully inflected, and there
are some quite complicated constructions like "he-having-them-for-you
I-made-my-relation-depart-homeward-towards-you". I mean, when I say fully
inflected, I mean fully inflected!!!

Bryan
On Feb 28, 2014 4:30 PM, "Sky Campbell" <sky at legendreaders.com> wrote:

> Compiling a list of these is on my "to do" list.  I've seen them before
> but never knew what to call them.  I know of examples like "bring" which
> roughly translates to "have - come" so I decided to see if I could find
> it.  While looking in Dorsey's material, I found a serial verb composed of
> three verbs and each of them conjugated.  Here it is as Dorsey documented
> it:
>
>
>
> a-nyi-hi-re - to have gone out of sight with any thing; to have taken any
> thing away
>
>
>
> Here are the three verbs:
>
>
>
> anyi - have
>
>
>
> hi - arrive there
>
>
>
> re - go
>
>
>
> His conjugation for the 2nd person singular came out as (respelled in our
> system):
>
>
>
> asdį rahi sre
>
>
>
> asdį - you have
>
>
>
> rahi - you arrive there
>
>
>
> sre - you go
>
>
>
> He has a load of these that would need to be gone over to see if all of
> them are conjugated this way but this is interesting nonetheless.  I
> haven't come across a succession of three verbs like this before until
> now.  A quick scan shows more "three verb" serial verbs.
>
>
>
> "Command raising" verbs was mentioned.  What exactly are those?  I'm also
> curious how (if any) valence-reducing affixes come into play here.
>
>
>
> Sky
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] *On Behalf Of
> *David Kaufman
> *Sent:* Friday, February 28, 2014 12:32 PM
> *To:* SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
> *Subject:* Re: Question re: Dhegiha and other Siouan quotatives
>
>
>
> Sky, thanks for this!  I think I'm going to go through and compile a list
> of attested Kaw serial verbs and how they're conjugated.  Bryan seems to
> think that there could be a sub-category of serial verbs where the first
> verb is not conjugated though the second one is.  Not sure how far I can
> get with this, but I may try and present this, at least the Kaw case, as a
> paper at the SCLC in May.
>
>
>
> Dave
>
>
> David Kaufman
>
> Linguistic Anthropology PhD candidate, University of Kansas
>
> Director, Kaw Nation Language Program
>
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 12:18 PM, Campbell, Sky <sky at omtribe.org> wrote:
>
> Dave,
>
>
>
> Not sure if you are still into this but I found this today.  William
> Hamilton and Samuel Irvin have on page 33 of their *Elementary Book of
> the Ioway Language*:
>
>
>
> ha-u-ha-mvn-yæ – I always do so
>
>
>
> This would be:
>
>
>
> Ha’ų hamanyi
>
>
>
> ha’ų – I do
>
>
>
> hamanyi – I walk/I always
>
>
>
> Here you have both conjugated in the first person using the prefix “ha-“.
> There are other examples out there but I need to find them.
>
>
>
> Hope this helps.
>
>
>
> *Sky Campbell, B. A.*
>
> Language Director
>
> Otoe-Missouria Tribe
>
> 580-723-4466 ext. 111
>
> sky at omtribe.org
>
>
>
> *From:* Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] *On Behalf Of
> *David Kaufman
>
>
> *Sent:* Friday, February 21, 2014 12:54 PM
>
> *To:* SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
>
>
> *Subject:* Re: Question re: Dhegiha and other Siouan quotatives
>
>
>
> Thanks Rory and Justin for the feedback.
>
>
>
> On another note, I've also been wondering about how serial verbs are
> handled in Siouan in general.  In the Kaw data, when two verbs come
> together, the second verb always conjugates for person while the first
> looks like it can either conjugate to match the second verb or it can stay
> in the third person (neutral) form.  I seem to recall that in Biloxi,
> serial verbs *always* match, first and second verbs having the same person
> conjugation.  What do other Siouan languages do in regards to this?  Are
> there any hard and fast rules about this?
>
>
>
> Thanks again!
>
>
>
> Dave
>
>
> David Kaufman
>
> Linguistic Anthropology PhD candidate, University of Kansas
>
> Director, Kaw Nation Language Program
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 5:15 PM, Rory Larson <rlarson1 at unl.edu> wrote:
>
> Thanks for the analysis, Justin.  That makes much better sense than what I
> had suggested.  Very interesting that the Kaw (a)be particle, which should
> be either cognate or closely related to the Omaha (a)bi particle, can
> ablaut.  I wasn’t aware of that; it’s good to know.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> Rory
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] *On Behalf Of
> *Mcbride, Justin
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 20, 2014 3:00 PM
> *To:* SIOUAN at LISTSERV.UNL.EDU
> *Subject:* Re: Question re: Dhegiha and other Siouan quotatives
>
>
>
> For what it's worth, I believe that what appears to be a second token of
> aba in the example, aba-daN is actually a different type altogether. In
> this case, I think it's a case of the verb e(e), 'to say', plus the -(a)be
> completive aspect marker plus the conjunction -(a)daN, 'and'
> [e(e)-(a)be-(a)daN > aba-daN]. If so, then, that one really is just 's/he
> said and,' and the first one is actually the subject marker. But that's not
> to say that there aren't other examples of the quotative use of subject
> markers in Ks, even within the same text. Here's an example of quotative
> akHa:
>
>
>
> iccikkitaNga akha oo aNs^i waali miNkHe akHa.
>
> The Old Man said, "Oh, I'm getting fat."
>
>
>
> This case is much clearer to my way of thinking because there are two
> verbal auxiliaries marking the same state (in this case, at rest)
> back-to-back, one of which refers to 1st person (miNkHe, part of the
> quotation), and one 3rd person (akHa, marks quotation). It's curious to
> note that in the audio for this, the speaker laughs after miNkHe and then
> almost catches her breath before saying akHa, which would indicate to me
> that she felt it was essential for concluding the sentence. It's
> interesting to me in that it seems that the entire quoted clause is acting
> almost like a verb following the canonical pattern (subject) SUBJ (verb)
> AUX, where SUBJ and AUX match shape in the continuative aspect, as in
> s^idoz^iNga akHa ghaage akHa, 'the boy is crying.'
>
>
>
> -jtm
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 1:50 PM, Rory Larson <rlarson1 at unl.edu> wrote:
>
> Hi Dave,
>
>
>
> In Omaha and Ponca, the corresponding article is amá, where you have abá.
> As with Kaw, it tends to imply ‘moving/absent’.  But we also have another
> particle, apparently pronounced the same way, coming at the end of the
> sentence, that implies that the foregoing is hearsay rather than solid
> fact.  It can stand by itself, or it can be coupled with the ‘allegedly’
> particle bi to make the common ending for 3rd person hearsay action,
> biama.
>
>
>
> I notice the accent changes to the first syllable in the second case of
> your example.  I wonder if that could be underlyingly a-aba in that case?
> The first would be the ablauted version of ‘he said it’, followed by either
> the Old Man’s article abá or a ‘hearsay’ particle as in OP.  One problem
> with that would be that the ‘hearsay’ amá in OP shouldn’t cause a preceding
> verb to ablaut.
>
>
>
> My $0.02.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> Rory
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] *On Behalf Of
> *David Kaufman
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 20, 2014 1:30 PM
> *To:* SIOUAN at LISTSERV.UNL.EDU
> *Subject:* Question re: Dhegiha and other Siouan quotatives
>
>
>
> Hi all,
>
>
>
> I have a question re: a curious structure in Kaw, and whether anything
> like it occurs in other Dhegihan or even non-Dhegihan Siouan languages.
>  The structure involves the articles akhá and abá, used for subjects in Kaw
> and usually translated 'the', the first being roughly for
> 'standing/sitting' and the other for 'moving/absent'.  However, in Kaw,
> these subject articles also somehow seem to have become used as quotatives,
> or 's/he said.'  Here is an example sentence with gloss:
>
>
>
> *Icíkitanga  abá, “Anyáxtaga-édan,” ába-dan,  nanstábe.*
>
> Old.Man   said   bite.me-then          said-then   kicked.him
>
> The Old Man said, “Then bite me,” and he kicked him.
>
>
>
> So abá, which is normally used for 'moving' subjects and is usually
> translated 'the', is now being used for 's/he said.'
>
>
>
> Any thoughts on this, esp. from other Dhegihan perspectives, or other
> Siouan languages that might have some similar usage?
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
>
> David Kaufman
>
> Linguistic Anthropology PhD candidate, University of Kansas
>
> Director, Kaw Nation Language Program
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   ­­
>
>
>
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From linguist at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Sat Mar  1 02:07:23 2014
From: linguist at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (Bryan James Gordon)
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 19:07:23 -0700
Subject: Question re: Dhegiha and other Siouan quotatives
In-Reply-To: <CADVVCOjExzYtRCOCj4wecJOUxmRARyKPQLs1eKct-+usZNt1DQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.28.FEB.2014.190723.0700.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

But on second thought I don't really mean "fully inflected", because even
in the bring/take-type verbs the first verb doesn't get the
number/proximacy ablaut/suffix/postclitic/whatever-it-is. It's "athiN
atha", not "athiNi atha" ("S/he took it").
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From jfu at LAKHOTA.ORG  Sat Mar  1 10:31:22 2014
From: jfu at LAKHOTA.ORG (Jan Ullrich)
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 11:31:22 +0100
Subject: Question re: Dhegiha and other Siouan quotatives
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.64.1402281444520.3187@spot.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <SAT.1.MAR.2014.113122.0100.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

> Several people have noted (not sure whether published or not) that Lakota
complements 
> to verbs that require same-subject for both verbs (e.g. 
> 'try') do not allow affixes on the first verb, while those which permit a
change of subject (like 'want') 
> do require that both verbs be marked.  

I have been under the impression that there are only two Lakota verbs that
require both verbs in a complex predicate to be conjugated. They are chin
'to want' and okihi 'to be able to'. 
If there is data pointing to other verbs that behave like this it would be
useful to know.

Jan


From sky at LEGENDREADERS.COM  Sat Mar  1 15:40:32 2014
From: sky at LEGENDREADERS.COM (Sky Campbell)
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 09:40:32 -0600
Subject: Question re: Dhegiha and other Siouan quotatives
In-Reply-To: <007201cf3539$645ce010$2d16a030$@org>
Message-ID: <SAT.1.MAR.2014.094032.0600.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

Your mention of the Lakota term "okihi" has me very interested and also ties
into these serial verbs.  Hamilton has in his "An Ioway Grammar" book on
page 52:

--------------begin Hamilton---------------

This mood does not express power or ability to do an act, as its name might
seem to imply. Ability expressed by can in English is not properly expressed
by any one of the moods, but generally by the subjunctive and potential
together; as,

Ha-u e-ha-tu-ka-na-skæ, ha-u-hna-sku. If I willed it, I would do it.
Literally: I do, if I will it, I may do it.

--------------end Hamilton---------------

Here Hamilton is referring to what he calls the "potential mood."  I'm
curious about Lakota having the one word for "to be able" ("can") whereas
Hamilton says it isn't that simple in Ioway.  But on the subject of serial
verbs, the above shows 3 verbs (2 of them being the same):

ha'u - I do/work/make/create

ihaduganasge - if I willed it (I've seen this also as "ihadugra" (minus the
-nasge))

ha'uhnasgu - I may do it (here is the same verb "ha'u" with a few extra
suffixes to change the meaning a bit)

So here again we have 3 verbs all conjugated.  I wasn't sure I'd find one
beyond something along the lines of bring/take something somewhere.  But the
mention of "to be able" reminded me of Hamilton's above phrase.


Sky



-----Original Message-----
From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] On Behalf Of Jan
Ullrich
Sent: Saturday, March 1, 2014 4:31 AM
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
Subject: Re: Question re: Dhegiha and other Siouan quotatives

> Several people have noted (not sure whether published or not) that 
> Lakota
complements 
> to verbs that require same-subject for both verbs (e.g. 
> 'try') do not allow affixes on the first verb, while those which 
> permit a
change of subject (like 'want') 
> do require that both verbs be marked.  

I have been under the impression that there are only two Lakota verbs that
require both verbs in a complex predicate to be conjugated. They are chin
'to want' and okihi 'to be able to'. 
If there is data pointing to other verbs that behave like this it would be
useful to know.

Jan


From david.rood at COLORADO.EDU  Sat Mar  1 18:56:42 2014
From: david.rood at COLORADO.EDU (ROOD DAVID S)
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 11:56:42 -0700
Subject: Question re: Dhegiha and other Siouan quotatives
In-Reply-To: <CADVVCOgPLbnJ-CHiKT6MfJWrh6psj6YX=Qs92K=0SyxSxZFN-g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SAT.1.MAR.2014.115642.0700.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>


Bryan, I haven't been following all the ins and outs of this discussion, 
so please forgive me if this is redundant.  Your 'command' rule needs to 
be verified using a lower verb with a first or second person object.  I 
would expect 'he commanded me to find you' would have an object inflection 
on 'find'.
 	Best,
 	David

David S. Rood
Dept. of Linguistics
Univ. of Colorado
295 UCB
Boulder, CO 80309-0295
USA
rood at colorado.edu

On Fri, 28 Feb 2014, Bryan James Gordon wrote:

> I should have called them "verbs that work like 'command'" and avoided the
> word "raising" altogether, which is a theoretical designation and not even
> the appropriate one for that construction. In UmoNhoN Iye and PaNka Iye
> "command" gets a subject and an object inflection while its complement verb
> gets nothing, as in the example "unaN'aN aNthagazhi" "you commanded me to
> hear about it".
>
> Verbs like "bring" of course are another category that I totally forgot
> about in my list, and those are actually the most similar to what people
> tend to call "serial verbs" in theoretical linguistics. In my experience
> generally both verbs in these constructions are fully inflected, and there
> are some quite complicated constructions like "he-having-them-for-you
> I-made-my-relation-depart-homeward-towards-you". I mean, when I say fully
> inflected, I mean fully inflected!!!
>
> Bryan
> On Feb 28, 2014 4:30 PM, "Sky Campbell" <sky at legendreaders.com> wrote:
>
>> Compiling a list of these is on my "to do" list.  I've seen them before
>> but never knew what to call them.  I know of examples like "bring" which
>> roughly translates to "have - come" so I decided to see if I could find
>> it.  While looking in Dorsey's material, I found a serial verb composed of
>> three verbs and each of them conjugated.  Here it is as Dorsey documented
>> it:
>>
>>
>>
>> a-nyi-hi-re - to have gone out of sight with any thing; to have taken any
>> thing away
>>
>>
>>
>> Here are the three verbs:
>>
>>
>>
>> anyi - have
>>
>>
>>
>> hi - arrive there
>>
>>
>>
>> re - go
>>
>>
>>
>> His conjugation for the 2nd person singular came out as (respelled in our
>> system):
>>
>>
>>
>> asdį rahi sre
>>
>>
>>
>> asdį - you have
>>
>>
>>
>> rahi - you arrive there
>>
>>
>>
>> sre - you go
>>
>>
>>
>> He has a load of these that would need to be gone over to see if all of
>> them are conjugated this way but this is interesting nonetheless.  I
>> haven't come across a succession of three verbs like this before until
>> now.  A quick scan shows more "three verb" serial verbs.
>>
>>
>>
>> "Command raising" verbs was mentioned.  What exactly are those?  I'm also
>> curious how (if any) valence-reducing affixes come into play here.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sky
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] *On Behalf Of
>> *David Kaufman
>> *Sent:* Friday, February 28, 2014 12:32 PM
>> *To:* SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
>> *Subject:* Re: Question re: Dhegiha and other Siouan quotatives
>>
>>
>>
>> Sky, thanks for this!  I think I'm going to go through and compile a list
>> of attested Kaw serial verbs and how they're conjugated.  Bryan seems to
>> think that there could be a sub-category of serial verbs where the first
>> verb is not conjugated though the second one is.  Not sure how far I can
>> get with this, but I may try and present this, at least the Kaw case, as a
>> paper at the SCLC in May.
>>
>>
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>> David Kaufman
>>
>> Linguistic Anthropology PhD candidate, University of Kansas
>>
>> Director, Kaw Nation Language Program
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 12:18 PM, Campbell, Sky <sky at omtribe.org> wrote:
>>
>> Dave,
>>
>>
>>
>> Not sure if you are still into this but I found this today.  William
>> Hamilton and Samuel Irvin have on page 33 of their *Elementary Book of
>> the Ioway Language*:
>>
>>
>>
>> ha-u-ha-mvn-yæ – I always do so
>>
>>
>>
>> This would be:
>>
>>
>>
>> Ha’ų hamanyi
>>
>>
>>
>> ha’ų – I do
>>
>>
>>
>> hamanyi – I walk/I always
>>
>>
>>
>> Here you have both conjugated in the first person using the prefix “ha-“.
>> There are other examples out there but I need to find them.
>>
>>
>>
>> Hope this helps.
>>
>>
>>
>> *Sky Campbell, B. A.*
>>
>> Language Director
>>
>> Otoe-Missouria Tribe
>>
>> 580-723-4466 ext. 111
>>
>> sky at omtribe.org
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] *On Behalf Of
>> *David Kaufman
>>
>>
>> *Sent:* Friday, February 21, 2014 12:54 PM
>>
>> *To:* SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
>>
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: Question re: Dhegiha and other Siouan quotatives
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks Rory and Justin for the feedback.
>>
>>
>>
>> On another note, I've also been wondering about how serial verbs are
>> handled in Siouan in general.  In the Kaw data, when two verbs come
>> together, the second verb always conjugates for person while the first
>> looks like it can either conjugate to match the second verb or it can stay
>> in the third person (neutral) form.  I seem to recall that in Biloxi,
>> serial verbs *always* match, first and second verbs having the same person
>> conjugation.  What do other Siouan languages do in regards to this?  Are
>> there any hard and fast rules about this?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks again!
>>
>>
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>> David Kaufman
>>
>> Linguistic Anthropology PhD candidate, University of Kansas
>>
>> Director, Kaw Nation Language Program
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 5:15 PM, Rory Larson <rlarson1 at unl.edu> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for the analysis, Justin.  That makes much better sense than what I
>> had suggested.  Very interesting that the Kaw (a)be particle, which should
>> be either cognate or closely related to the Omaha (a)bi particle, can
>> ablaut.  I wasn’t aware of that; it’s good to know.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Rory
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] *On Behalf Of
>> *Mcbride, Justin
>> *Sent:* Thursday, February 20, 2014 3:00 PM
>> *To:* SIOUAN at LISTSERV.UNL.EDU
>> *Subject:* Re: Question re: Dhegiha and other Siouan quotatives
>>
>>
>>
>> For what it's worth, I believe that what appears to be a second token of
>> aba in the example, aba-daN is actually a different type altogether. In
>> this case, I think it's a case of the verb e(e), 'to say', plus the -(a)be
>> completive aspect marker plus the conjunction -(a)daN, 'and'
>> [e(e)-(a)be-(a)daN > aba-daN]. If so, then, that one really is just 's/he
>> said and,' and the first one is actually the subject marker. But that's not
>> to say that there aren't other examples of the quotative use of subject
>> markers in Ks, even within the same text. Here's an example of quotative
>> akHa:
>>
>>
>>
>> iccikkitaNga akha oo aNs^i waali miNkHe akHa.
>>
>> The Old Man said, "Oh, I'm getting fat."
>>
>>
>>
>> This case is much clearer to my way of thinking because there are two
>> verbal auxiliaries marking the same state (in this case, at rest)
>> back-to-back, one of which refers to 1st person (miNkHe, part of the
>> quotation), and one 3rd person (akHa, marks quotation). It's curious to
>> note that in the audio for this, the speaker laughs after miNkHe and then
>> almost catches her breath before saying akHa, which would indicate to me
>> that she felt it was essential for concluding the sentence. It's
>> interesting to me in that it seems that the entire quoted clause is acting
>> almost like a verb following the canonical pattern (subject) SUBJ (verb)
>> AUX, where SUBJ and AUX match shape in the continuative aspect, as in
>> s^idoz^iNga akHa ghaage akHa, 'the boy is crying.'
>>
>>
>>
>> -jtm
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 1:50 PM, Rory Larson <rlarson1 at unl.edu> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Dave,
>>
>>
>>
>> In Omaha and Ponca, the corresponding article is amá, where you have abá.
>> As with Kaw, it tends to imply ‘moving/absent’.  But we also have another
>> particle, apparently pronounced the same way, coming at the end of the
>> sentence, that implies that the foregoing is hearsay rather than solid
>> fact.  It can stand by itself, or it can be coupled with the ‘allegedly’
>> particle bi to make the common ending for 3rd person hearsay action,
>> biama.
>>
>>
>>
>> I notice the accent changes to the first syllable in the second case of
>> your example.  I wonder if that could be underlyingly a-aba in that case?
>> The first would be the ablauted version of ‘he said it’, followed by either
>> the Old Man’s article abá or a ‘hearsay’ particle as in OP.  One problem
>> with that would be that the ‘hearsay’ amá in OP shouldn’t cause a preceding
>> verb to ablaut.
>>
>>
>>
>> My $0.02.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Rory
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] *On Behalf Of
>> *David Kaufman
>> *Sent:* Thursday, February 20, 2014 1:30 PM
>> *To:* SIOUAN at LISTSERV.UNL.EDU
>> *Subject:* Question re: Dhegiha and other Siouan quotatives
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>>
>>
>> I have a question re: a curious structure in Kaw, and whether anything
>> like it occurs in other Dhegihan or even non-Dhegihan Siouan languages.
>>  The structure involves the articles akhá and abá, used for subjects in Kaw
>> and usually translated 'the', the first being roughly for
>> 'standing/sitting' and the other for 'moving/absent'.  However, in Kaw,
>> these subject articles also somehow seem to have become used as quotatives,
>> or 's/he said.'  Here is an example sentence with gloss:
>>
>>
>>
>> *Icíkitanga  abá, “Anyáxtaga-édan,” ába-dan,  nanstábe.*
>>
>> Old.Man   said   bite.me-then          said-then   kicked.him
>>
>> The Old Man said, “Then bite me,” and he kicked him.
>>
>>
>>
>> So abá, which is normally used for 'moving' subjects and is usually
>> translated 'the', is now being used for 's/he said.'
>>
>>
>>
>> Any thoughts on this, esp. from other Dhegihan perspectives, or other
>> Siouan languages that might have some similar usage?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> David Kaufman
>>
>> Linguistic Anthropology PhD candidate, University of Kansas
>>
>> Director, Kaw Nation Language Program
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>   ­­
>>
>>
>>
>

From david.rood at COLORADO.EDU  Sat Mar  1 18:57:15 2014
From: david.rood at COLORADO.EDU (ROOD DAVID S)
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 11:57:15 -0700
Subject: Question re: Dhegiha and other Siouan quotatives
In-Reply-To: <007201cf3539$645ce010$2d16a030$@org>
Message-ID: <SAT.1.MAR.2014.115715.0700.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

Jan, I am answering without looking things up, so be prepared for some 
mis-remembering.  I seem to recall that "s^i" 'command" requires object 
affixes on the embedded verb: 'I told him to help you' would be "onichiye 
was^i".  I thought that pattern was pretty common.  What about something 
like 'realize' as in 'I realized I was wrong' or 'I realized you were 
wrong"?

 	Best,
 	David

David S. Rood
Dept. of Linguistics
Univ. of Colorado
295 UCB
Boulder, CO 80309-0295
USA
rood at colorado.edu

On Sat, 1 Mar 2014, Jan Ullrich wrote:

>> Several people have noted (not sure whether published or not) that Lakota
> complements
>> to verbs that require same-subject for both verbs (e.g.
>> 'try') do not allow affixes on the first verb, while those which permit a
> change of subject (like 'want')
>> do require that both verbs be marked.
>
> I have been under the impression that there are only two Lakota verbs that
> require both verbs in a complex predicate to be conjugated. They are chin
> 'to want' and okihi 'to be able to'.
> If there is data pointing to other verbs that behave like this it would be
> useful to know.
>
> Jan
>


From dvkanth2010 at GMAIL.COM  Sat Mar  1 19:35:47 2014
From: dvkanth2010 at GMAIL.COM (David Kaufman)
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 13:35:47 -0600
Subject: Question re: Dhegiha and other Siouan quotatives
In-Reply-To: <000c01cf3564$94d60750$be8215f0$@com>
Message-ID: <SAT.1.MAR.2014.133547.0600.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

Kaw, at least in the attested data, doesn't seem to have a verb for "be
able to" either.  This concept seems to require the verb "miss" or "lack"
when the negative idea 'not be able to' is needed.  This is another
interesting question as regards comparative Siouan.  How do other Siouan
languages handle the concept "be able to" or "not be able to"?  Biloxi has
a verb xa for 'be able, ought, should' as well as a couple of particles to
represent this idea.

Dave

David Kaufman
Linguistic Anthropology PhD candidate, University of Kansas
Director, Kaw Nation Language Program


On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 9:40 AM, Sky Campbell <sky at legendreaders.com> wrote:

> Your mention of the Lakota term "okihi" has me very interested and also
> ties
> into these serial verbs.  Hamilton has in his "An Ioway Grammar" book on
> page 52:
>
> --------------begin Hamilton---------------
>
> This mood does not express power or ability to do an act, as its name might
> seem to imply. Ability expressed by can in English is not properly
> expressed
> by any one of the moods, but generally by the subjunctive and potential
> together; as,
>
> Ha-u e-ha-tu-ka-na-skć, ha-u-hna-sku. If I willed it, I would do it.
> Literally: I do, if I will it, I may do it.
>
> --------------end Hamilton---------------
>
> Here Hamilton is referring to what he calls the "potential mood."  I'm
> curious about Lakota having the one word for "to be able" ("can") whereas
> Hamilton says it isn't that simple in Ioway.  But on the subject of serial
> verbs, the above shows 3 verbs (2 of them being the same):
>
> ha'u - I do/work/make/create
>
> ihaduganasge - if I willed it (I've seen this also as "ihadugra" (minus the
> -nasge))
>
> ha'uhnasgu - I may do it (here is the same verb "ha'u" with a few extra
> suffixes to change the meaning a bit)
>
> So here again we have 3 verbs all conjugated.  I wasn't sure I'd find one
> beyond something along the lines of bring/take something somewhere.  But
> the
> mention of "to be able" reminded me of Hamilton's above phrase.
>
>
> Sky
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] On Behalf Of Jan
> Ullrich
> Sent: Saturday, March 1, 2014 4:31 AM
> To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
> Subject: Re: Question re: Dhegiha and other Siouan quotatives
>
> > Several people have noted (not sure whether published or not) that
> > Lakota
> complements
> > to verbs that require same-subject for both verbs (e.g.
> > 'try') do not allow affixes on the first verb, while those which
> > permit a
> change of subject (like 'want')
> > do require that both verbs be marked.
>
> I have been under the impression that there are only two Lakota verbs that
> require both verbs in a complex predicate to be conjugated. They are chin
> 'to want' and okihi 'to be able to'.
> If there is data pointing to other verbs that behave like this it would be
> useful to know.
>
> Jan
>
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From Armik.Mirzayan at USD.EDU  Sat Mar  1 21:48:42 2014
From: Armik.Mirzayan at USD.EDU (Mirzayan, Armik)
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 15:48:42 -0600
Subject: Question re: Dhegiha and other Siouan quotatives
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.64.1403011022500.8976@spot.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <SAT.1.MAR.2014.154842.0600.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

David,

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "requires object affixes on the embedded verb". I will try to  fill in a few details here, the way I understand it,  and hopefully these are correct ....

The auxiliary verb ší takes 2 participants, a subject and an object (one person doing the telling, and the other being told to do thing in the preceding verb), as in:

  Tȟabškál  mašípi.     "They asked/told me to play ball"
  Héčhuŋ   wičhúŋšipi    "We asked/told them to do that." 
  Oyúspe niší.         "He asked/told you to catch it"

The first verb (lower, embedded ... or whatever one wants to call it) can be intransitive or transitive.  If it that first verb is transitive and you need to put an object affix on it, then yes, as you say, that object affix will go on the first verb.

   Óničiye waší.     "I asked him to help you."


You can have object affixes (different objects) on both the first verb and ší, as in:

  Owíchayuspe maší.     "She asked me to catch them."



For your example of "realize", I am thinking that I would use something like ablézA (?). The sentence structure for this verb would be different from ší however.  With ablézA I would probably use a complementizer article type thing, as in these sentences:


  Yaglúšna kiŋ awábleze.      "I realize that you made an error".

  Hé wašté kiŋ awábleze.      "I realize that that's good."


You can also use  "čha" with ablézA, as in:

   Wičhákȟe šni čha awábleze.    "I realized that he was not truthful."

...


-Armik
-----------------------------------------
Armik Mirzayan - Languages and Linguistics
The University of South Dakota
414 E. Clark St., Vermillion, SD, USA 57069
Armik.Mirzayan at usd.edu
-----------------------------------------


________________________________________
From: Siouan Linguistics [SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] On Behalf Of ROOD DAVID S [david.rood at COLORADO.EDU]
Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2014 12:57 PM
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
Subject: Re: Question re: Dhegiha and other Siouan quotatives

Jan, I am answering without looking things up, so be prepared for some
mis-remembering.  I seem to recall that "s^i" 'command" requires object
affixes on the embedded verb: 'I told him to help you' would be "onichiye
was^i".  I thought that pattern was pretty common.  What about something
like 'realize' as in 'I realized I was wrong' or 'I realized you were
wrong"?

        Best,
        David

David S. Rood
Dept. of Linguistics
Univ. of Colorado
295 UCB
Boulder, CO 80309-0295
USA
rood at colorado.edu

On Sat, 1 Mar 2014, Jan Ullrich wrote:

>> Several people have noted (not sure whether published or not) that Lakota
> complements
>> to verbs that require same-subject for both verbs (e.g.
>> 'try') do not allow affixes on the first verb, while those which permit a
> change of subject (like 'want')
>> do require that both verbs be marked.
>
> I have been under the impression that there are only two Lakota verbs that
> require both verbs in a complex predicate to be conjugated. They are chin
> 'to want' and okihi 'to be able to'.
> If there is data pointing to other verbs that behave like this it would be
> useful to know.
>
> Jan
>


From Armik.Mirzayan at USD.EDU  Sat Mar  1 21:55:21 2014
From: Armik.Mirzayan at USD.EDU (Mirzayan, Armik)
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 15:55:21 -0600
Subject: Question re: Dhegiha and other Siouan quotatives
In-Reply-To: <2E8C78A825FCF84D9B27960E9F4E9107B28AA350E1@USD-EXMB01.usd.local>
Message-ID: <SAT.1.MAR.2014.155521.0600.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

Sent that too fast .... A typing error in the last example:

>  You can also use  "čha" with ablézA, as in:
>    Wičhákȟe šni čha awábleze.    "I realized that he was not truthful."

It should be:    Wičákȟe šni čha awábleze.


-Armik
-----------------------------------------
Armik Mirzayan - Languages and Linguistics
The University of South Dakota
414 E. Clark St., Vermillion, SD, USA 57069
Armik.Mirzayan at usd.edu
-----------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------
Armik Mirzayan, Lakota Linguistics
Department of Languages, Linguistics, and Philosophy
The University of South Dakota
414 E. Clark St.
Vermillion SD 57069
Armik.Mirzayan at usd.edu
Phone:  605-677-3159
-----------------------------------------



________________________________________
From: Siouan Linguistics [SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] On Behalf Of ROOD DAVID S [david.rood at COLORADO.EDU]
Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2014 12:57 PM
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
Subject: Re: Question re: Dhegiha and other Siouan quotatives

Jan, I am answering without looking things up, so be prepared for some
mis-remembering.  I seem to recall that "s^i" 'command" requires object
affixes on the embedded verb: 'I told him to help you' would be "onichiye
was^i".  I thought that pattern was pretty common.  What about something
like 'realize' as in 'I realized I was wrong' or 'I realized you were
wrong"?

        Best,
        David

David S. Rood
Dept. of Linguistics
Univ. of Colorado
295 UCB
Boulder, CO 80309-0295
USA
rood at colorado.edu

On Sat, 1 Mar 2014, Jan Ullrich wrote:

>> Several people have noted (not sure whether published or not) that Lakota
> complements
>> to verbs that require same-subject for both verbs (e.g.
>> 'try') do not allow affixes on the first verb, while those which permit a
> change of subject (like 'want')
>> do require that both verbs be marked.
>
> I have been under the impression that there are only two Lakota verbs that
> require both verbs in a complex predicate to be conjugated. They are chin
> 'to want' and okihi 'to be able to'.
> If there is data pointing to other verbs that behave like this it would be
> useful to know.
>
> Jan
>


From dvkanth2010 at GMAIL.COM  Sun Mar  2 03:11:02 2014
From: dvkanth2010 at GMAIL.COM (David Kaufman)
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 21:11:02 -0600
Subject: Bob Rankin obituary
Message-ID: <SAT.1.MAR.2014.211102.0600.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

Attached is the obituary that appeared today for Bob.  Please let me know
if it doesn't come out okay.

Dave

David Kaufman
Linguistic Anthropology PhD candidate, University of Kansas
Director, Kaw Nation Language Program
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From saponi360 at YAHOO.COM  Sun Mar  2 03:56:55 2014
From: saponi360 at YAHOO.COM (Scott Collins)
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 19:56:55 -0800
Subject: Bob Rankin obituary
In-Reply-To: <CAKapKjQNjadDsMVy_DB4n6Pgmfa_gtXjVxSczE_wMzESKKGkCw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SAT.1.MAR.2014.195655.0800.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

Thank you.
 
Scott P. Collins
----------------------------------------------------------------------
WE ARE THE ONES WE HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR


Evil Is An Outer Manifestation Of An Inner Struggle


“Men and women become accomplices to those evils they fail to oppose.”


"The greater the denial the greater the awakening."


________________________________
 From: David Kaufman <dvkanth2010 at GMAIL.COM>
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu 
Sent: Saturday, March 1, 2014 9:11 PM
Subject: Bob Rankin obituary
 


Attached is the obituary that appeared today for Bob.  Please let me know if it doesn't come out okay.

Dave


David Kaufman
Linguistic Anthropology PhD candidate, University of Kansas
Director, Kaw Nation Language Program
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From ishna00 at HOTMAIL.COM  Tue Mar  4 11:19:34 2014
From: ishna00 at HOTMAIL.COM (Charles Thode)
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2014 05:19:34 -0600
Subject: Bob Rankin obituary
In-Reply-To: <1393732615.61237.YahooMailNeo@web181303.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.4.MAR.2014.051934.0600.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

Thanks for sending this!

Chuck

Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 19:56:55 -0800
From: saponi360 at YAHOO.COM
Subject: Re: Bob Rankin obituary
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu

Thank you. Scott P. Collins
----------------------------------------------------------------------
WE ARE THE ONES WE HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR

Evil Is An Outer Manifestation Of An Inner Struggle

“Men and women become accomplices to those evils they fail to oppose.”

"The greater the denial the greater the awakening."
        From: David Kaufman <dvkanth2010 at GMAIL.COM>
 To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu 
 Sent: Saturday, March 1, 2014 9:11 PM
 Subject: Bob Rankin obituary
   

Attached is the obituary that appeared today for Bob.  Please let me know if it doesn't come out okay.

Dave
David Kaufman
Linguistic Anthropology PhD candidate, University of Kansas
Director, Kaw Nation Language Program




     		 	   		  
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From jekoontz at MSN.COM  Thu Mar  6 03:00:05 2014
From: jekoontz at MSN.COM (John Koontz)
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 20:00:05 -0700
Subject: [Possible SPAM]  Re: Aho!
In-Reply-To: <775338d5a26f49cf82cbacea9430d6a1@BLUPR04MB819.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <WED.5.MAR.2014.200005.0700.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

I would guess this pair contrasts something analogous to Omaha-Ponca 'to say' vs. 'to say to'.   The 'say' stems are highly irregular in Omaha-Ponca like most Siouan, but underlyingly they are something like e=...he vs. e=gi=...he.   So the first persons are ehe 'I said it' (from something like Proto-Dhegiha *e=phe) vs. egiphe 'I said (it) to him'.  The third persons are a=i 'they said' vs. ega=i 'they said to him'.   I've reconstructed the  plural from memory of the logic of the system.  What I remember is the unpluralized from ege (e=g(i)...(h)e).   The gi element is the dative marker of course and the weird thing about (OP) 'say' is that that comes *before* the pronoun.   When gi is followed by the root (h)e it contracts with it.   I'm not sure the root is really -he in the third person.   The first and second persons are clearly built on e=(gi)=...he, but the inclusive is usually from another verb entirely, and the third person behaves like e by itself in the simple stem and e=g(i)=...e in the dative.   The initial e= is presumably an incorporated e 'the aforesaid'.   And, of course, this is the quoting verb that follows a quotation.   There's a form with initial ga 'yonder' that is used preceding a quotation.   The third person is  essentially always seen as a=(nothing) or a=i or a=bi with the plural-proximate marker following e and conditioning the a-grade of the stem.  (So you almost never get a singular looking form, and if you did it would be just e, and so hard to know from a demonstrative e.)   The =(nothing) form of the plural-proximate  is current now when no other particle follows.  Dorsey always has a=i or a=bi (the latter when the quotation is itself quoted in some way).   

Anyway, making allowances, I hope, for my poor grasp of IO, I make these

e=wa-a naha 'the one who says something'
vs. e=wa-g(i)-a naha  'the one who says (something) to someone'

I hope I correctly remember naha as an article of some sort.  If not ...

When you add a dative to something then the object is the dative object and the "direct object" sort of falls out of the agreement pattern.  Sometimes it hangs around in the sentence as a noun (or quotation) without governing anything in the verb.   What the relationalists called a chomeur.  
 
I may have found a clue for “ka.”  Dorsey has the term:
 
e-wa-na-ha – the speaker; the one speaking
 
Then he has the term:
 
e wa-ka-na-ha – the one who is meant; the person addressed
 
I’m not sure how (or even if) this is related to the “ka” I am asking about but I’m trying to look at it in different ways to see if it fits somehow.
 

Sky Campbell, B. A.
Language Director
Otoe-Missouria Tribe
580-723-4466 ext. 111
sky at omtribe.org

 
 		 	   		  
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From jekoontz at MSN.COM  Thu Mar  6 03:33:11 2014
From: jekoontz at MSN.COM (John Koontz)
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 20:33:11 -0700
Subject: [Possible SPAM]  Re: Aho!
In-Reply-To: <BLU184-W769B3B53230B7AA4A0FF5CC1880@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <WED.5.MAR.2014.203311.0700.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

I've been sorting through some more of this interesting stuff!   

For what it's worth, OP e=..aN 'to do something' and e=gi=...aN 'to do (something) like someone/thing'  parallel the 'say' verbs in structure.    So their first persons are emaN and egimaN.   The first persons are eaN and egaN.  I do think I recall that the corresponding IO forms have k?uN, not gaN.   Off hand, I don't know of an OP parallel stem with the u-locative prefix.   

How do you explain the aN in kaNre instead of kare?   u...k?uN is 'give'?  

====
And in keeping with the idea that perhaps this might be an older thing, I did a quick run through Merrill's First
Ioway Reading Book and in his prayer (Lesson 12, page 13), he has the line:
 
Nl-ce pe of-kon-kl-ra (Nąnje pi uk'ųka
re) - Give me a good heart.
 
(I
 wonder with the possible nasal "f" that Merrill put in there if it is 
supposed to be a contraction of "uhįnk'ų" to become "ųnk'ų" to say "give
me".)
 
So
 here we have another use of "ka" from a source other than Hamilton.  I 
haven't gone through his hymns yet though.  But no clues so far as
I can tell.  However I am noticing "me" being in a few of these but it 
may just be a coincidence.
 
And
 on the off chance that this "ka" might be something that means plural 
(maybe an alternate way to end commands to command more than one person
besides using -wi), I remembered a very odd term from Maximilian's word 
list where he had:
 
guj-n
- we alone
 
To
 date, I have never seen the prefix "gu-" to mean "we" anywhere else.  
And it may not be connected in any way to the "ka/ga" we are talking
about but I thought I'd put it out there.
 
Sky
 		 	   		   		 	   		  
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From jekoontz at MSN.COM  Thu Mar  6 03:51:41 2014
From: jekoontz at MSN.COM (John Koontz)
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 20:51:41 -0700
Subject: Question re: Omaha-Ponca
In-Reply-To: <CAKapKjTFC=0uf9-c4tPAsSuu6C5i4Q916vXLe6a+rCK41mirKg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <WED.5.MAR.2014.205141.0700.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

As far as I recall, the dhaN article is present in OP, but not in the rest of Dhegiha.  But the others do have the various compounds of this with motion verbs and causatives etc. as verbs of placement and doing suddenly.  inaN, inaNnaN, etc.  

Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2014 15:21:03 -0600
From: dvkanth2010 at GMAIL.COM
Subject: Question re: Omaha-Ponca
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu

Hi all,
I'm wondering if anyone can tell me how the article ðą is actually used in OP.  According to the Omaha texts, it seems to be used often after body parts, but I notice it is also used for other non-body part nouns as well, which JOD sometimes glosses as 'object'.  I'm particularly curious because Biloxi sometimes uses the suffix -yą (which would correlate with ðą) after some body part terms as well. I don't see anything similar being used in Kaw or Osage, unless I'm missing something .

Thanks.
DaveDavid KaufmanLinguistic Anthropology PhD candidate, University of Kansas
Director, Kaw Nation Language Program


 		 	   		  
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From jekoontz at MSN.COM  Thu Mar  6 02:41:05 2014
From: jekoontz at MSN.COM (John Koontz)
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 19:41:05 -0700
Subject: Aho!  (-ka in IO imperative forms)
In-Reply-To: <775338d5a26f49cf82cbacea9430d6a1@BLUPR04MB819.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <WED.5.MAR.2014.194105.0700.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

FWIW, the Omaha-Ponca imperative is ga (male) ~ a (female).   It occurs with the e-grade of ablaut.  

wadhathe ga hau  'eat!'   

At least for Dorsey the Otoe and Omaha-Ponca sources were intermarried to some extent.   Hamilton worked with both communities, though I thought it was at different locations.   Jimm would know in detail!   

Second is that the ending imperative “re” may actually be a contraction of an older form “kare/gare” and it has just stopped being used.  That one is just a random guess LOL.
 ...What do you think?
 
Sky Campbell, B. A.
Language Director
Otoe-Missouria Tribe
580-723-4466 ext. 111
sky at omtribe.org
 		 	   		  
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From sky at LEGENDREADERS.COM  Thu Mar  6 04:30:11 2014
From: sky at LEGENDREADERS.COM (Sky Campbell)
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 22:30:11 -0600
Subject: [Possible SPAM]  Re: Aho!
In-Reply-To: <BLU184-W769B3B53230B7AA4A0FF5CC1880@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <WED.5.MAR.2014.223011.0600.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

Yes, "naha" is an article going along the lines of "the", "that which", "the
one who", etc.

 

You've given me a lot to think about and a lot of terminology that I'll have
to wrap my head around since I'm not familiar with it.

 

My assistants and I spent over 3 hours today tracking down all the instances
of Merrill and Hamilton's use of this -ga/-ka and mapped them to a grid on a
large dry-erase board in an effort to try to find some kind of common
element among all of them.  Unfortunately we had no luck.  We tried to think
of everything we could think of when it came to those verbs.  Were they
transitive or intransitive?  Animate or inanimate objects?  Singular or
plural?  Was the object "known" to the speaker (meaning was the speaker
referring to something specific...sort of along the lines of the idea of
"that" I mentioned earlier)?  Of course we know that we aren't looking for
every possible criteria since there are many we don't know about (like some
of the ideas you mentioned).

 

I've mentioned several of our theories such as "that", "now", "in like
manner", etc.  But while we were plugging away I was perusing Dorsey's
vocabulary slips and found this:

 

k'a (masc) (adverb) - of action in past time, not continuing into the
present

 

And the example he gives is:

 

Swagaxe k'a - you did write then (but you do not write now)

 

So in this context, I wonder if perhaps it could be along the lines of (to
use an example from before) "Look at the snake" perhaps with the idea that
you were looking at the snake before but aren't now and I want you to do so
again.  This may not be correct though since Dorsey mentions "see also" and
has the endings "ke", "ki", etc. so this may represent the end of a
statement and not simply an adverb that can be used where needed.

 

Dorsey also has a rather enigmatic term "kare" (or perhaps "k'are") where he
mentions "It seems to imply that the thought or desire was not gratified"
but he doesn't just list this term with that explanation but rather just
uses it with examples such as:

 

Ji kare hįrawi - we thought that he would have come hither (but he did not
come)

 

I'm noting that this is after the verb that they want to attach this to
which matches the placement of the enigmatic -ga/-ka.  So along these lines,
perhaps it could be "Look at the snake" with the idea of I wanted you to
look at the snake but you didn't so I am requesting/commanding again since
you didn't do it before.

 

Yet another couple theories to add to this :).

 

Sky

 

From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] On Behalf Of John
Koontz
Sent: Wednesday, March 5, 2014 9:00 PM
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
Subject: Re: [Possible SPAM] Re: Aho!

 

I would guess this pair contrasts something analogous to Omaha-Ponca 'to
say' vs. 'to say to'.   The 'say' stems are highly irregular in Omaha-Ponca
like most Siouan, but underlyingly they are something like e=...he vs.
e=gi=...he.   So the first persons are ehe 'I said it' (from something like
Proto-Dhegiha *e=phe) vs. egiphe 'I said (it) to him'.  The third persons
are a=i 'they said' vs. ega=i 'they said to him'.   I've reconstructed the
plural from memory of the logic of the system.  What I remember is the
unpluralized from ege (e=g(i)...(h)e).   The gi element is the dative marker
of course and the weird thing about (OP) 'say' is that that comes *before*
the pronoun.   When gi is followed by the root (h)e it contracts with it.
I'm not sure the root is really -he in the third person.   The first and
second persons are clearly built on e=(gi)=...he, but the inclusive is
usually from another verb entirely, and the third person behaves like e by
itself in the simple stem and e=g(i)=...e in the dative.   The initial e= is
presumably an incorporated e 'the aforesaid'.   And, of course, this is the
quoting verb that follows a quotation.   There's a form with initial ga
'yonder' that is used preceding a quotation.   The third person is
essentially always seen as a=(nothing) or a=i or a=bi with the
plural-proximate marker following e and conditioning the a-grade of the
stem.  (So you almost never get a singular looking form, and if you did it
would be just e, and so hard to know from a demonstrative e.)   The
=(nothing) form of the plural-proximate  is current now when no other
particle follows.  Dorsey always has a=i or a=bi (the latter when the
quotation is itself quoted in some way).   

Anyway, making allowances, I hope, for my poor grasp of IO, I make these

e=wa-a naha 'the one who says something'
vs. e=wa-g(i)-a naha  'the one who says (something) to someone'

I hope I correctly remember naha as an article of some sort.  If not ...

When you add a dative to something then the object is the dative object and
the "direct object" sort of falls out of the agreement pattern.  Sometimes
it hangs around in the sentence as a noun (or quotation) without governing
anything in the verb.   What the relationalists called a chomeur.  

  _____  

 

I may have found a clue for “ka.”  Dorsey has the term:

 

e-wa-na-ha – the speaker; the one speaking

 

Then he has the term:

 

e wa-ka-na-ha – the one who is meant; the person addressed

 

I’m not sure how (or even if) this is related to the “ka” I am asking about
but I’m trying to look at it in different ways to see if it fits somehow.

 

Sky Campbell, B. A.

Language Director

Otoe-Missouria Tribe

580-723-4466 ext. 111

sky at omtribe.org

 

 

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From jekoontz at MSN.COM  Thu Mar  6 10:15:35 2014
From: jekoontz at MSN.COM (John Koontz)
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2014 03:15:35 -0700
Subject: Aho! (IO -ka in Imperatives)
In-Reply-To: <001501cf38f4$c38988e0$4a9c9aa0$@com>
Message-ID: <THU.6.MAR.2014.031535.0700.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

In k'a what is '?  If it is aspiration (opening quote) this sounds a little like the ubiquitous the (th = aspirate) in OP.  It actually alternates with the inanimate articles (the ~ khe ~ dhaN ~ ge) and is associated with something like pastness.   The alternants indicate something about the "shape" of the action, as they indicate the shape of the noun when they are inanimate articles.  (And khe 'long, lying' occurs with animate things like snakes.)  
 
I am pretty sure that the sense of these forms in OP is not pastness per se but 'deducibility'.  As a set they indicate that the action is deduced to have occurred (in the shape indicated).  This contrasts with the ama particle that occurs with reported things (and conditions any preceding plural-proximate marker to be bi instead of I).   
 
The "proximate" term is one I have borrowed from Algonquian usage and is not very suitable.  The general idea is that the action can be observed to occur and takes place under the independent volition of the third person singular subject.  And this is (for some reason) marked with a plural marker on the third person subject.  Only Dhegiha has this pattern.  But it keeps coming up because I need to explain that a=i is 'he (proximate) said' in most places, even though it looks like 'they said'.  There is a non-proximate, or obviative e 'he said', but it is vanishingly rare in texts.   The a=i is also 'they said', of course.   (The IO analogs of e and a=i are e and a=wi.)
 
We have to be a little careful with associating ga's.   Siouan languages are full of forms that look the same and mean something different.   In OP ga is the masculine imperative, the "yonder" demonstrative, and the "by striking" instrumental besides the places where it turns up superficially because gi has contracted with a following a.   There's also places where aN 'we' is followed by the locative prefix a- 'on' producing aNga-.   From your examples I think you are safe in associating the cases of kare where there is an imperative meaning.   
 
If you have kare alternating indeterminately with re and in more modern examples completely replaced by re, maybe you just have a case of a historical change in usage observed in progress?   I can think of all kinds of things that are somewhat irregular in OP and Da because they are changing and are controlled by the formulas the speaker has heard various others use, by their sense of style as it applies in a specific utterance, and so on.  
 
Because there is an male imperative particle ga in OP it is worth wondering if =ka=re originally marked male imperatives in IO.   If it works at all like OP (where the female imperative is =a), I would expect re alone to be the female imperative and to condition the a-grade of preceding ablauting e.  In other words, the female imperative would be =a=re, and that initial a would replace any preceding e.  It might occasionally show up as an extra element if the preceding vowel wasn't e.  So in OP =a=di 'in'  changes preceding e to a, ppahe ~ ppahadi, and sometimes the a appears in forms like ppamu ~ ppamuadi, tti ~ ttiadi, or sometimes you just get =di and sometimes a preceding e doesn't change either.  These last, simpler patterns are, of course, the modern ones.  
 
It looks like Whitman says the imperative does condition e > a.   So, for what it's worth, that pattern is consistent.   Conceivably the IO imperative in the early 1800 was something like the OP one, but with the additional element =re following it.   The OP imperative can be extended (for male speakers anyway) by =hau, which is essentially the declarative.   Sort of like "yep!" at the end of a sentence, maybe.   And sort of like the =re in IO, except that the =re is always there are ends up surviving as the only element visible.   
 
As far as female speech forms replacing male speech forms, this is actually something that can happen.  Or the reverse.   And apart from apparently straight up changes like that, it is also possible that the difference between the two forms was actually something like a strong suggestion (=ka=re) vs. a milder, politer one (=a=re) and men are more culturally enabled to make strong suggestions.   However, fashions in these things change continually.   In general the sentence final particles are highly unstable in Siouan languages, and even closely related languages (or the same language at different periods) have different systems.   
 
It was suggested that ka might be 'yon'.   We could even guess that ka (or ga) in an imperative might actually be historically the ga demonstrative, used as an imperative particle.  Sort of "eat, that, do it!"   I'm kind of reminded of the use of ese in Chicano Spanish, though I think that is more of a male declarative.   I've never really figured it out!    
 
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 22:30:11 -0600
From: sky at LEGENDREADERS.COM
Subject: Re: [Possible SPAM]  Re: Aho!
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu

Yes, "naha" is an article going along the lines of "the", "that which", "the one who", etc. You've given me a lot to think about and a lot of terminology that I'll have to wrap my head around since I'm not familiar with it. My assistants and I spent over 3 hours today tracking down all the instances of Merrill and Hamilton's use of this -ga/-ka and mapped them to a grid on a large dry-erase board in an effort to try to find some kind of common element among all of them.  Unfortunately we had no luck.  We tried to think of everything we could think of when it came to those verbs.  Were they transitive or intransitive?  Animate or inanimate objects?  Singular or plural?  Was the object "known" to the speaker (meaning was the speaker referring to something specific...sort of along the lines of the idea of "that" I mentioned earlier)?  Of course we know that we aren't looking for every possible criteria since there are many we don't know about (like some of the ideas you mentioned). I've mentioned several of our theories such as "that", "now", "in like manner", etc.  But while we were plugging away I was perusing Dorsey's vocabulary slips and found this: k'a (masc) (adverb) - of action in past time, not continuing into the present And the example he gives is: Swagaxe k'a - you did write then (but you do not write now) So in this context, I wonder if perhaps it could be along the lines of (to use an example from before) "Look at the snake" perhaps with the idea that you were looking at the snake before but aren't now and I want you to do so again.  This may not be correct though since Dorsey mentions "see also" and has the endings "ke", "ki", etc. so this may represent the end of a statement and not simply an adverb that can be used where needed. Dorsey also has a rather enigmatic term "kare" (or perhaps "k'are") where he mentions "It seems to imply that the thought or desire was not gratified" but he doesn't just list this term with that explanation but rather just uses it with examples such as: Ji kare hįrawi - we thought that he would have come hither (but he did not come) I'm noting that this is after the verb that they want to attach this to which matches the placement of the enigmatic -ga/-ka.  So along these lines, perhaps it could be "Look at the snake" with the idea of I wanted you to look at the snake but you didn't so I am requesting/commanding again since you didn't do it before. Yet another couple theories to add to this :). Sky From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] On Behalf Of John Koontz
Sent: Wednesday, March 5, 2014 9:00 PM
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
Subject: Re: [Possible SPAM] Re: Aho! I would guess this pair contrasts something analogous to Omaha-Ponca 'to say' vs. 'to say to'.   The 'say' stems are highly irregular in Omaha-Ponca like most Siouan, but underlyingly they are something like e=...he vs. e=gi=...he.   So the first persons are ehe 'I said it' (from something like Proto-Dhegiha *e=phe) vs. egiphe 'I said (it) to him'.  The third persons are a=i 'they said' vs. ega=i 'they said to him'.   I've reconstructed the  plural from memory of the logic of the system.  What I remember is the unpluralized from ege (e=g(i)...(h)e).   The gi element is the dative marker of course and the weird thing about (OP) 'say' is that that comes *before* the pronoun.   When gi is followed by the root (h)e it contracts with it.   I'm not sure the root is really -he in the third person.   The first and second persons are clearly built on e=(gi)=...he, but the inclusive is usually from another verb entirely, and the third person behaves like e by itself in the simple stem and e=g(i)=...e in the dative.   The initial e= is presumably an incorporated e 'the aforesaid'.   And, of course, this is the quoting verb that follows a quotation.   There's a form with initial ga 'yonder' that is used preceding a quotation.   The third person is  essentially always seen as a=(nothing) or a=i or a=bi with the plural-proximate marker following e and conditioning the a-grade of the stem.  (So you almost never get a singular looking form, and if you did it would be just e, and so hard to know from a demonstrative e.)   The =(nothing) form of the plural-proximate  is current now when no other particle follows.  Dorsey always has a=i or a=bi (the latter when the quotation is itself quoted in some way).   

Anyway, making allowances, I hope, for my poor grasp of IO, I make these

e=wa-a naha 'the one who says something'
vs. e=wa-g(i)-a naha  'the one who says (something) to someone'

I hope I correctly remember naha as an article of some sort.  If not ...

When you add a dative to something then the object is the dative object and the "direct object" sort of falls out of the agreement pattern.  Sometimes it hangs around in the sentence as a noun (or quotation) without governing anything in the verb.   What the relationalists called a chomeur.   I may have found a clue for "ka."  Dorsey has the term: e-wa-na-ha - the speaker; the one speaking Then he has the term: e wa-ka-na-ha - the one who is meant; the person addressed I'm not sure how (or even if) this is related to the "ka" I am asking about but I'm trying to look at it in different ways to see if it fits somehow. Sky Campbell, B. A.Language DirectorOtoe-Missouria Tribe580-723-4466 ext. 111sky at omtribe.org   		 	   		  
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From jekoontz at MSN.COM  Thu Mar  6 19:39:11 2014
From: jekoontz at MSN.COM (John Koontz)
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2014 12:39:11 -0700
Subject: Aho!  (-ka in IO imperative forms)
In-Reply-To: <BLU184-W403CD17407AB94488ABA59C1880@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <THU.6.MAR.2014.123911.0700.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

Oops.  The OP imperatives occur with the a-grade of the ablaut vowel.  
 
dhatha'=a 'eat (woman speaking)!'
daNba'=ga 'see (man speaking)!'
 
(Thanks for catching this, Rory!)
 
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 19:41:05 -0700
From: jekoontz at MSN.COM
Subject: Re: Aho!  (-ka in IO imperative forms)
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu




FWIW, the Omaha-Ponca imperative is ga (male) ~ a (female).   It occurs with the e-grade of ablaut.  

wadhathe ga hau  'eat!'   

At least for Dorsey the Otoe and Omaha-Ponca sources were intermarried to some extent.   Hamilton worked with both communities, though I thought it was at different locations.   Jimm would know in detail!   

Second is that the ending imperative “re” may actually be a contraction of an older form “kare/gare” and it has just stopped being used.  That one is just a random guess LOL.
 ...What do you think?
 
Sky Campbell, B. A.
Language Director
Otoe-Missouria Tribe
580-723-4466 ext. 111
sky at omtribe.org
 		 	   		   		 	   		  
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From mary.marino at USASK.CA  Fri Mar  7 17:48:50 2014
From: mary.marino at USASK.CA (Mary C Marino)
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2014 11:48:50 -0600
Subject: Sad news
In-Reply-To: <CAKapKjQ8rnGAdGvb983v+C9UqvBm46ENVLTbB60_LMaRdRBsqg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.7.MAR.2014.114850.0600.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

I just got back from a 2-week absence and found this message -- I am 
profoundly sorry to hear this.  Bob was the best.  My condolences to 
Carolyn, and to all of you who will miss him as much as I will.

Mary
On 24/02/2014 2:01 PM, David Kaufman wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> It is with much sadness that I let you know that Dr. Robert Rankin has 
> passed away.  I don't have any further details at this time, but I can 
> pass on more info once I know more.  The Kaw Nation was just contacted 
> within the last couple of hours about his passing.
>
> I am extremely grateful that I got to visit Bob a couple of weeks ago.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Dave
>
> David Kaufman
> Linguistic Anthropology PhD candidate, University of Kansas
> Director, Kaw Nation Language Program

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From jgoodtracks at GMAIL.COM  Thu Mar 13 13:08:57 2014
From: jgoodtracks at GMAIL.COM (Jimm Goodtracks)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2014 08:08:57 -0500
Subject: Fw: MARK
Message-ID: <THU.13.MAR.2014.080857.0500.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>



From: BARBARA SALVATORE 
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2014 12:57 AM
To: Catherine Rudin ; iren.hartmann at gmail.com ; jgoodtracks at gmail.com ; rankin at ku.edu ; rlarson1 at unl.edu 
Cc: linguist at email.arizona.edu ; vstabler at esu1.org ; dvkanth2010 at gmail.com ; jekoontz at msn.com ; greer-j at mssu.edu ; jtmcbri at ostatemail.okstate.edu 
Subject: Re: MARK

PLEASE FIND UPDATES ON MARK, and the Appreciation Dance the Elders and Students have planned for him. ALL DETAILS follow. Thank you very much for your time and consideration.
Barbara
APPRECIATION DANCE FOR MARK WAKUNI-SWETLAND, MARCH 30th , Indian Center, Lincoln


THANK YOU FOR FOLLOWING UP MARGARET! I AM JUST SENDING THIS OUT TO EVERYONE TODAY! your timing is excellent :)
March 13, 2014
Hello to friends and students of WagOnze Uthixide, Professor Mark Awakuni-Swetland.
In February, I visited with him at his home with MiSebe (Arlene Walker) and he was in very good spirits. Of course he spent a lot of time talking about the UmoNhoN language and quizzing us, and correcting us, and telling us how important it was to learn the UmoNhoN alphabet and remember how to spell things so that we could be good teachers and pass it on. He gave us watermelon rind pickles that he and his sister in law had canned the day before. But he could not see our faces or the computer screen, as his vision is very blurry and he gets headaches. Later that weekend we were all at the Gourd dance and Hand-games at the Lincoln Indian Center and this is what he publicly shared:
He stood to tell us: “the leukemia has flared up, and travelled up my spinal fluid into my brain. Which is why when Donna asked me questions and I gave her no answers, or incoherent, really strange ones, she started to suspect something. The doctors here in Lincoln found carotid arteries, but sent me to my doctors in Omaha for the cancer, and they found it there in my spine. I am undergoing treatments.
The Western doctors have told me to get my affairs in order. And my Indian doctor tells me there is NO doom and gloom around me and that I still have work to do on this earth that is undone. So I wanted to say that much.”
He excused himself to go home to rest and take medicines.
Later, when they drew the raffle ticket for the hand-made star quilt, Mark’s sister-in law won it! 
Afterwards, our elder speakers talked together and announced that they want to host an Appreciation Gourd Dance and Hand-Games to honor Mark. They wanted me to get in touch with all the students that I know.

Donna and her sister want to thank everyone for planning this, and they are very grateful.
They are going to be organizing food and meal plans, confirm the hosts etc. The Dance will be held on Sunday, March 30th. 

They would like if anyone who can, to come and help with planning on Sunday. 
PLEASE CONTACT ARLENE WALKER (MiSebe) by phone or text (402)314-6482

To reply to this email, do not hit REPLY ALL 
To reply to me, email  bighorsemail at yahoo.com  (Barbara)
or you can message Arlene Walker or Barbara Salvatore on facebook 
PLEASE Do NOT post this to facebook walls while we are still planning
A flyer will be posted to facebook when it is ready
Please tell / bring any friends or family members that would like to help and show their appreciation.
ATTACHED IS A FULL LIST OF WHAT IS NEEDED. CASH DONATIONS ACCEPTED AS WELL. SEE DETAILS BELOW!
WagOnze Uthixide has been fighting this leukemia a long time. He has also studied, taught and been dedicated to the Siouan languages, the Omaha, and to his students with his heavy load of work and projects. It is our time to give back, and to thank him for his generosity and all that he has shared. 
Indian Center, 1100 Military Road, Lincoln. (402) 438-5231) 
I hope you can join us!
WibthahoN!
Barbara Salvatore
Omaha Language Class/ UNL 2011- 2012   
Ponca Language Educator – Ponca Tribe of Nebraska
bighorsemail at yahoo.com /(607)-287-0327
PO BOX 414, Verdigre,NE 68783

IN LINCOLN - PLEASE CONTACT ARLENE WALKER (MiSebe) by phone 
or text (402)314-6482 (she likes texts )
or
Indian Center, 1100 Military Road, Lincoln 
(402) 438-5231) 

APPRECIATION DANCE FOR MARK WAKUNI-SWETLAND, MARCH 30th , Indian Center, Lincoln

NEEDED:
TO PURCHASE
Coffee – large containers ground coffee (to serve ongoing throughout the event)
5 large jugs Juice
Fried Chicken – 3 boxes
Penny Candy, lollipops, snack size bars – for putting round the drum for kids
PAPER GOODS-
Plates
Soup bowls
Cups
Spoons
Forks
Bull Durham Tobacco

TO MAKE – VOLUNTEERS NEEDED- To make these dishes 
(make at home and bring in your own serving pots, dishes or disposable trays)
LARGE pot Vegetable soup
LARGE pot Chicken soup
Fry Bread
Cakes – at least 6 for Cake Walk
Big Serving Trays of:

Potato Salad – 2 people make
Macaroni Salad – 1 person
Platter Baked Beans- 1 person
Platter Green Salad- 1 person

ALSO NEEDED – ITEMS FOR GIVE-AWAY – Suggestions:
Blankets 
Shawls
Pillows
Gift Baskets- will be assembled from donated goods such as-
Towels
Toiletries (for men or women)
Food gifts
Jewelry
Framed pictures
Toys (for children)
Kitchen ware
Coffee maker
Pots, pans
Food Items (canned, boxed, nonperishables, snacks)
Fruit baskets
Anything that you feel is an appropriate gift

CASH DONATIONS  ALWAYS WELCOME – 
PLEASE contact ARLENE WALKER AT 402-314-6482 in LINCOLN

If Long Distance and mailing CHECKS, please send to me 
(B. SALVATORE, PO BOX 414, VERDIGRE, NE 68783) BY MARCH 25th, 
so purchases can be made by March 29th.

IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OR SUGGESTIONS -
PLEASE EMAIL me at bighorsemail at yahoo.com 
or CALL me at 607-287-0327

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR GENEROUS SUPPORT 
of WagoNze MARK AWAKUNI-SWETLAND at this time!








On Monday, January 27, 2014 9:46 PM, Catherine Rudin <carudin1 at wsc.edu> wrote:

Thanks, Rory.  
I think you're right that all this detail doesn't need to be on the list, but I am glad to know what is going on.  
I've added the addresses I have for John K and Vida.

I had wondered why I hadn't heard from Mark in a while, but figured he was just busy.  

I would like to help out in any way possible by long distance ... the note below mentions sending gas cards as one thing they could use.  Would just sending cash be out of place?  I'm sure they will have lots of expenses.  Won't try to bring food from Wayne.

The mental confusion must be dreadful.  But as you say, Mark is feisty and has always had an amazing sense of humor -- glad it's still intact.

C

>>> Rory Larson 01/27/14 7:45 PM >>>

Yes, thanks, Jimm.  I wasn’t sure whether it was my place to say anything on the list, so I’m glad you as an elder brought it up.

Mark collapsed in his office in mid-December, and has been in the hospital much of the time since.  The immediate problem was a collapsed aorta, but they seem to have sorted it out to a resurgence of the leukemia that, for the first time, is attacking his nervous system.  I visited him in the hospital a couple of days later.  He was talking with a small crowd of visiters, and was very much his normal, feisty self.  At that time, he still planned on teaching the coming semester.

Our student and illustrator Barbara Salvatore passed on an email from his departments  last week:

Ø  Dear Ethnic Studies Colleagues and friends of Ethnic Studies/Native American Studies,
Ø  This is the latest information regarding Mark Awakuni-Swetland.  This comes to us
Ø  from LuAnn Wandsnider, Chair of Anthropology:  
Ø   
Ø  Mark is now undergoing radiation treatments on a daily basis and, starting later this week, likely as an outpatient.  The
Ø  leukemia is now affecting parts of his brain, causing him to have double vision.  He and Donna are
Ø  pursuing chemotherapy and radiation treatment to help with quality of life; the longer term prognosis
Ø  is not good. 
Ø   
Ø  What you can do:  
Ø  His family could use help with providing meals/food for Micah (vegetarian; high school senior) and Kei'a (high
Ø  school freshman), since Donna is spending most of her time in Omaha.  They have some family help and help from Donna's
Ø  coworkers at LPS, but other help would be welcome.  Mark might be released this Friday, but then they will need to
Ø  travel back and forth to Omaha daily, so gas cards would also be useful. 
Ø   
Ø  You could drop off food for the boys around the back of 1532 No. 24th Street, with a note on the front door.  
Ø  Probably gas cards should come through the mail (zip: 68503).
Ø   
Ø  LuAnn will be e-mailing me again soon regarding whether Mark is able to have visitors or whether
Ø  a phone call is possible or if it might tire him too much.  Because of his double vision, he cannot read
Ø  his e-mails, but Donna is reading his e-mails to him-- so feel free to write him as well.
Ø  Mark's e-mail:  mawakuni-swetland2 at unl.edu
Ø   
Ø  Take good care, everyone,
Ø  Amelia

I was able to see him at his house for a short while on Friday evening.  They were well-stocked with vegetables; I added to their stash.  Mark was upright, seated at the table.  He was still himself, and lucid, but slightly slower than usual in speech and seemed to have a little trouble occasionally finding words.  A couple of times, he lost the initial consonant on his first attempt: e.g. “arrow” for “marrow”.  He suffers from severe headaches, but the most unsettling thing for him is that he has episodes.  These are either periods he can’t remember, like waking up in a completely different room than the one he went to bed in, and nobody else seems to think so, and he can’t remember the difference in enough detail to explain it; or he finds himself not knowing where he is, or who he is, or what his intended destination was.  He also complained of falling into weird and troubling ideation.  Fortunately, he still has a sound overall understanding, and his sense of humor.  He sorted out a long line of pills he must take.  The first is for his lungs, but the dose is too strong.  The second counteracts the overdose of the first, the third moderates the second, and so on down the line.  It seems his condition has pioneered new territory, beyond the bounds of current medical science, and now they are just throwing pills at it to see what works.

I had emailed him a couple of times, and got no answer.  As the message above says, he has double vision now and can’t read it, but I believe Donna will read the message to him if you would like to communicate with him that way.  I’ve been chary of calling him on the phone, but I haven’t heard anything to say we can’t.

Catherine, I’m sorry I didn’t get in touch with you sooner.  I had assumed that you and Vida already knew.  Mark and I didn’t talk about Omaha during the visit.  We might want to put out some feelers on what is going to happen there.

I’m not sure this much detail belongs on the list; I’ll leave that to wiser heads than mine.  I would include John Koontz and Vida Stabler if I could locate their email addresses.  Perhaps one of you could pass it on to them, and to anyone else you think should know.

Best,
Rory


From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] On Behalf Of Bryan James Gordon
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 4:31 PM
To: SIOUAN at LISTSERV.UNL.EDU
Subject: Re: MARK

Yes, Jimm, thank you for sharing this news with the list. It broke my heart to hear of it. Wagóⁿze thí shi edi ewathatha-ma wíbthahoⁿi moⁿbthíⁿ.

2014-01-27 Jimm G. GoodTracks <jgoodtracks at gmail.com>
From: Vida Stabbler at Macy, NE:

Hi Jimm, my Nephew Uthixide Mark's leukemia is back and fierce at that. He's been on chemo and on leave from work.  

The leukemia has spread to spine, brain and bone marrow. Needless to say, there is great sadness coming along. He is doing radiation and will start chemo very soon. I sat with him and Donna at UNMC - Omaha yesterday. I will share your thoughts with him....makes him smile to hear from family and friends.

It would be good for the list to acknowledge him and that we stand with him in heart and prayer as he travels this difficult journey, that he has already traveled.

Jimm 




-- 
***********************************************************
Bryan James Gordon, MA
Joint PhD Program in Linguistics and Anthropology
University of Arizona
*********************************************************** 


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From majohnson25 at WISC.EDU  Wed Mar 19 03:41:40 2014
From: majohnson25 at WISC.EDU (Meredith Johnson)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2014 22:41:40 -0500
Subject: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34
Message-ID: <TUE.18.MAR.2014.224140.0500.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

Dear all,

We have a couple of updates about the upcoming 34th Siouan and Caddoan Languages Conference, to be held Friday, May 23 to Sunday, May 25 at the University of Wisconsin-Madison.

The conference will be held at Memorial Union, which is on the University of Wisconsin campus in downtown Madison. We have reserved a block of rooms at the Hampton Inn, which is the closest hotel to the conference site (less than a 10 minute walk away). The special conference rate is $119/night for a double room from May 22-25. The rate is available until April 22, and you can access this rate from the following link: http://hamptoninn.hilton.com/en/hp/groups/personalized/M/MSNBJHX-ALC-20140522/index.jhtml

If you're on a tighter budget, we suggest finding a hotel on the west side of Madison and taking a bus to the conference. Bus schedules and Google transit planner are available here: http://www.cityofmadison.com/metro/ Please note that there are different schedules for the work week and weekend.

Please see attached for a (very) tentative schedule. If you‘d like to secure one of the spots on this schedule, remember to submit an abstract online at http://linguistlist.org/confcustom/SCLC34 by this Sunday, March 23! :)

Lastly, we hope to have registration available shortly! We are still waiting for confirmation on our conference funding. If it comes through (fingers crossed!), registration will be free, and there will be a subsidized conference dinner. We will let you know as soon as we do!

We hope to have more info for you soon, but in the meantime, please feel free to e-mail with any questions. Also check our new website https://sites.google.com/site/34sclc/accomodations for updates and additional information.

All the best,
Meredith Johnson
Bryan Rosen
Matea Schuck
SCLC 34 Organizers

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From Greer-J at MSSU.EDU  Wed Mar 19 05:40:15 2014
From: Greer-J at MSSU.EDU (Greer, Jill)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2014 05:40:15 +0000
Subject: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34
In-Reply-To: <1B1D94AE-ED25-4624-9991-D190D9FC9AC9@wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.19.MAR.2014.054015.0000.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

Dear Meredith, Bryan, and Matea,

A couple of questions/comments:  Is there no possibility of less expensive dorm space?  A shorter walk and/or less expense might make the conference more friendly to a larger number of folks.  Also,  it seems a little formal to be going through linguist list rather than directly to the organizer's emails,  regardless of links provided.  Yes,  I'm sorry to sound like a grumpy old Luddite,  but surely  linguists of all people ought to be cognizant of the meta-communicative message of relying on 3rd party providers for 'ease' , so to speak, rather than actual person-to-person correspondence?

Forgive me for the complaints.  This meeting date is a bit early in the summer for my calendar,  and I'm not really sure I'm up to going to a Siouan conference without Bob just yet anyway.  No doubt everyone is still reeling under that weight, too.  Perhaps the proceedings could be shared with the list?  Rory was the only  one kind enough to actually share his paper from last summer's meeting.

But for future collegiality with fellow Siouanists,  perhaps I'm not too far out of line to request that the generously open and friendly tone of the conference not be replaced with the rather frenzied pace of the "standard"  linguistics meeting.

In the meantime,  thank you for the willingness to host,  and I hope that perhaps the beginning of some kind of Festschrift for Bob could begin to emerge from the group sorrow.

Sincerely yours,
Jill Greer















On Mar 18, 2014, at 10:41 PM, Meredith Johnson <majohnson25 at WISC.EDU<mailto:majohnson25 at WISC.EDU>>
 wrote:

Dear all,

We have a couple of updates about the upcoming 34th Siouan and Caddoan Languages Conference, to be held Friday, May 23 to Sunday, May 25 at the University of Wisconsin-Madison.

The conference will be held at Memorial Union, which is on the University of Wisconsin campus in downtown Madison. We have reserved a block of rooms at the Hampton Inn, which is the closest hotel to the conference site (less than a 10 minute walk away). The special conference rate is $119/night for a double room from May 22-25. The rate is available until April 22, and you can access this rate from the following link: http://hamptoninn.hilton.com/en/hp/groups/personalized/M/MSNBJHX-ALC-20140522/index.jhtml

If you're on a tighter budget, we suggest finding a hotel on the west side of Madison and taking a bus to the conference. Bus schedules and Google transit planner are available here: http://www.cityofmadison.com/metro/ Please note that there are different schedules for the work week and weekend.

Please see attached for a (very) tentative schedule. If you‘d like to secure one of the spots on this schedule, remember to submit an abstract online at http://linguistlist.org/confcustom/SCLC34 by this Sunday, March 23! :)

Lastly, we hope to have registration available shortly! We are still waiting for confirmation on our conference funding. If it comes through (fingers crossed!), registration will be free, and there will be a subsidized conference dinner. We will let you know as soon as we do!

We hope to have more info for you soon, but in the meantime, please feel free to e-mail with any questions. Also check our new website https://sites.google.com/site/34sclc/accomodations for updates and additional information.

All the best,
Meredith Johnson
Bryan Rosen
Matea Schuck
SCLC 34 Organizers

<SCLC prelim schedule.pdf>



This email may contain identifiable personal information that is subject to protection under state and federal law. This information is intended for the use of the individual named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited and may be punishable by law. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify us immediately by electronic mail (reply).
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From majohnson25 at WISC.EDU  Wed Mar 19 06:01:18 2014
From: majohnson25 at WISC.EDU (Meredith Johnson)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2014 01:01:18 -0500
Subject: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34
In-Reply-To: <EE67A80F-C04C-4C9E-A140-F9120496C06E@mssu.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.19.MAR.2014.010118.0500.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

Hi all,

A couple of quick responses to Jill's questions, which I am responding to on list in case others are interested.

Dorm space: to the best of our knowledge, there is no available dorm space. The conference venue is also on the edge of campus, and all dorms would actually be further away than the hotel. Having the conference in an urban setting unfortunately has its drawbacks: we could either choose a convenient hotel to get a block of rooms in, or a somewhat cheaper one that would require a long bus ride for participants. 

As for going through linguist list: We certainly were not trying to be formal; there are just three organizers and we all would like access to all abstracts submitted. I have accepted abstracts that were e-mailed to me, and if anyone else would prefer to do that, I will happily accept them and pass them on to the other organizers. All other correspondence will be done "person-to-person."

Of course, if there are any suggestions as to how we can maintain the "generously open and friendly tone of the conference", don't hesitate to e-mail me on or off-list. If we have done anything else to offend anyone while trying to organize this conference, drop me a line.

Best,
Meredith
On Mar 19, 2014, at 12:40 AM, "Greer, Jill" <Greer-J at MSSU.EDU> wrote

> Dear Meredith, Bryan, and Matea,
> 
> A couple of questions/comments:  Is there no possibility of less expensive dorm space?  A shorter walk and/or less expense might make the conference more friendly to a larger number of folks.  Also,  it seems a little formal to be going through linguist list rather than directly to the organizer's emails,  regardless of links provided.  Yes,  I'm sorry to sound like a grumpy old Luddite,  but surely  linguists of all people ought to be cognizant of the meta-communicative message of relying on 3rd party providers for 'ease' , so to speak, rather than actual person-to-person correspondence?  
> 
> Forgive me for the complaints.  This meeting date is a bit early in the summer for my calendar,  and I'm not really sure I'm up to going to a Siouan conference without Bob just yet anyway.  No doubt everyone is still reeling under that weight, too.  Perhaps the proceedings could be shared with the list?  Rory was the only  one kind enough to actually share his paper from last summer's meeting.  
> 
> But for future collegiality with fellow Siouanists,  perhaps I'm not too far out of line to request that the generously open and friendly tone of the conference not be replaced with the rather frenzied pace of the "standard"  linguistics meeting.  
> 
> In the meantime,  thank you for the willingness to host,  and I hope that perhaps the beginning of some kind of Festschrift for Bob could begin to emerge from the group sorrow.  
> 
> Sincerely yours,
> Jill Greer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>     
> 
> 
> 
> On Mar 18, 2014, at 10:41 PM, Meredith Johnson <majohnson25 at WISC.EDU>
>  wrote:
> 
>> Dear all,
>> 
>> We have a couple of updates about the upcoming 34th Siouan and Caddoan Languages Conference, to be held Friday, May 23 to Sunday, May 25 at the University of Wisconsin-Madison.
>> 
>> The conference will be held at Memorial Union, which is on the University of Wisconsin campus in downtown Madison. We have reserved a block of rooms at the Hampton Inn, which is the closest hotel to the conference site (less than a 10 minute walk away). The special conference rate is $119/night for a double room from May 22-25. The rate is available until April 22, and you can access this rate from the following link: http://hamptoninn.hilton.com/en/hp/groups/personalized/M/MSNBJHX-ALC-20140522/index.jhtml
>> 
>> If you're on a tighter budget, we suggest finding a hotel on the west side of Madison and taking a bus to the conference. Bus schedules and Google transit planner are available here: http://www.cityofmadison.com/metro/ Please note that there are different schedules for the work week and weekend.
>> 
>> Please see attached for a (very) tentative schedule. If you‘d like to secure one of the spots on this schedule, remember to submit an abstract online at http://linguistlist.org/confcustom/SCLC34 by this Sunday, March 23! :)
>> 
>> Lastly, we hope to have registration available shortly! We are still waiting for confirmation on our conference funding. If it comes through (fingers crossed!), registration will be free, and there will be a subsidized conference dinner. We will let you know as soon as we do!
>> 
>> We hope to have more info for you soon, but in the meantime, please feel free to e-mail with any questions. Also check our new website https://sites.google.com/site/34sclc/accomodations for updates and additional information.
>> 
>> All the best,
>> Meredith Johnson
>> Bryan Rosen
>> Matea Schuck
>> SCLC 34 Organizers
>> 
>> <SCLC prelim schedule.pdf>
> 
> 
> 
> This email may contain identifiable personal information that is subject to protection under state and federal law. This information is intended for the use of the individual named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited and may be punishable by law. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify us immediately by electronic mail (reply).

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From jgoodtracks at GMAIL.COM  Wed Mar 19 12:49:03 2014
From: jgoodtracks at GMAIL.COM (Jimm Goodtracks)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2014 07:49:03 -0500
Subject: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34
In-Reply-To: <05E37D6A-FF74-4397-A06E-C61CD0E85F37@wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.19.MAR.2014.074903.0500.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

For your information, I was unable to connect with the link below on conference program -   http://linguistlist.org/confcustom/SCLC34

From: Meredith Johnson 
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2014 1:01 AM
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu 
Subject: Re: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34

Hi all, 

A couple of quick responses to Jill's questions, which I am responding to on list in case others are interested.

Dorm space: to the best of our knowledge, there is no available dorm space. The conference venue is also on the edge of campus, and all dorms would actually be further away than the hotel. Having the conference in an urban setting unfortunately has its drawbacks: we could either choose a convenient hotel to get a block of rooms in, or a somewhat cheaper one that would require a long bus ride for participants. 

As for going through linguist list: We certainly were not trying to be formal; there are just three organizers and we all would like access to all abstracts submitted. I have accepted abstracts that were e-mailed to me, and if anyone else would prefer to do that, I will happily accept them and pass them on to the other organizers. All other correspondence will be done "person-to-person."

Of course, if there are any suggestions as to how we can maintain the "generously open and friendly tone of the conference", don't hesitate to e-mail me on or off-list. If we have done anything else to offend anyone while trying to organize this conference, drop me a line.

Best,
Meredith
On Mar 19, 2014, at 12:40 AM, "Greer, Jill" <Greer-J at MSSU.EDU> wrote


  Dear Meredith, Bryan, and Matea,

  A couple of questions/comments:  Is there no possibility of less expensive dorm space?  A shorter walk and/or less expense might make the conference more friendly to a larger number of folks.  Also,  it seems a little formal to be going through linguist list rather than directly to the organizer's emails,  regardless of links provided.  Yes,  I'm sorry to sound like a grumpy old Luddite,  but surely  linguists of all people ought to be cognizant of the meta-communicative message of relying on 3rd party providers for 'ease' , so to speak, rather than actual person-to-person correspondence?  

  Forgive me for the complaints.  This meeting date is a bit early in the summer for my calendar,  and I'm not really sure I'm up to going to a Siouan conference without Bob just yet anyway.  No doubt everyone is still reeling under that weight, too.  Perhaps the proceedings could be shared with the list?  Rory was the only  one kind enough to actually share his paper from last summer's meeting.  

  But for future collegiality with fellow Siouanists,  perhaps I'm not too far out of line to request that the generously open and friendly tone of the conference not be replaced with the rather frenzied pace of the "standard"  linguistics meeting.  

  In the meantime,  thank you for the willingness to host,  and I hope that perhaps the beginning of some kind of Festschrift for Bob could begin to emerge from the group sorrow.  

  Sincerely yours,
  Jill Greer











      



  On Mar 18, 2014, at 10:41 PM, Meredith Johnson <majohnson25 at WISC.EDU>
  wrote:


    Dear all,

    We have a couple of updates about the upcoming 34th Siouan and Caddoan Languages Conference, to be held Friday, May 23 to Sunday, May 25 at the University of Wisconsin-Madison.

    The conference will be held at Memorial Union, which is on the University of Wisconsin campus in downtown Madison. We have reserved a block of rooms at the Hampton Inn, which is the closest hotel to the conference site (less than a 10 minute walk away). The special conference rate is $119/night for a double room from May 22-25. The rate is available until April 22, and you can access this rate from the following link: http://hamptoninn.hilton.com/en/hp/groups/personalized/M/MSNBJHX-ALC-20140522/index.jhtml

    If you're on a tighter budget, we suggest finding a hotel on the west side of Madison and taking a bus to the conference. Bus schedules and Google transit planner are available here: http://www.cityofmadison.com/metro/ Please note that there are different schedules for the work week and weekend.

    Please see attached for a (very) tentative schedule. If you‘d like to secure one of the spots on this schedule, remember to submit an abstract online at http://linguistlist.org/confcustom/SCLC34 by this Sunday, March 23! :)

    Lastly, we hope to have registration available shortly! We are still waiting for confirmation on our conference funding. If it comes through (fingers crossed!), registration will be free, and there will be a subsidized conference dinner. We will let you know as soon as we do!

    We hope to have more info for you soon, but in the meantime, please feel free to e-mail with any questions. Also check our new website https://sites.google.com/site/34sclc/accomodations for updates and additional information.

    All the best,
    Meredith Johnson
    Bryan Rosen
    Matea Schuck
    SCLC 34 Organizers

    <SCLC prelim schedule.pdf> 



  This email may contain identifiable personal information that is subject to protection under state and federal law. This information is intended for the use of the individual named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited and may be punishable by law. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify us immediately by electronic mail (reply). 
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From majohnson25 at WISC.EDU  Wed Mar 19 16:52:14 2014
From: majohnson25 at WISC.EDU (Meredith Johnson)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2014 11:52:14 -0500
Subject: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34
In-Reply-To: <F841D424F5DC400FBE649C57772F3331@AsusLaptop>
Message-ID: <WED.19.MAR.2014.115214.0500.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

Hi again all,

Hmm, that's strange. All three of the organizers tried it, and several people have successfully uploaded abstracts. I'm guessing Linguist List was just updating the website. If you have trouble, I would suggest trying it again a little later. If anyone has continual trouble, please let me know, and I'll contact Linguist List.

Best,
Meredith
On Mar 19, 2014, at 7:49 AM, Jimm Goodtracks <jgoodtracks at GMAIL.COM> wrote

> For your information, I was unable to connect with the link below on conference program -   http://linguistlist.org/confcustom/SCLC34
>  
> From: Meredith Johnson
> Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2014 1:01 AM
> To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
> Subject: Re: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34
>  
> Hi all,
>  
> A couple of quick responses to Jill's questions, which I am responding to on list in case others are interested.
>  
> Dorm space: to the best of our knowledge, there is no available dorm space. The conference venue is also on the edge of campus, and all dorms would actually be further away than the hotel. Having the conference in an urban setting unfortunately has its drawbacks: we could either choose a convenient hotel to get a block of rooms in, or a somewhat cheaper one that would require a long bus ride for participants.
>  
> As for going through linguist list: We certainly were not trying to be formal; there are just three organizers and we all would like access to all abstracts submitted. I have accepted abstracts that were e-mailed to me, and if anyone else would prefer to do that, I will happily accept them and pass them on to the other organizers. All other correspondence will be done "person-to-person."
>  
> Of course, if there are any suggestions as to how we can maintain the "generously open and friendly tone of the conference", don't hesitate to e-mail me on or off-list. If we have done anything else to offend anyone while trying to organize this conference, drop me a line.
>  
> Best,
> Meredith
> On Mar 19, 2014, at 12:40 AM, "Greer, Jill" <Greer-J at MSSU.EDU> wrote
> 
>> Dear Meredith, Bryan, and Matea,
>>  
>> A couple of questions/comments:  Is there no possibility of less expensive dorm space?  A shorter walk and/or less expense might make the conference more friendly to a larger number of folks.  Also,  it seems a little formal to be going through linguist list rather than directly to the organizer's emails,  regardless of links provided.  Yes,  I'm sorry to sound like a grumpy old Luddite,  but surely  linguists of all people ought to be cognizant of the meta-communicative message of relying on 3rd party providers for 'ease' , so to speak, rather than actual person-to-person correspondence? 
>>  
>> Forgive me for the complaints.  This meeting date is a bit early in the summer for my calendar,  and I'm not really sure I'm up to going to a Siouan conference without Bob just yet anyway.  No doubt everyone is still reeling under that weight, too.  Perhaps the proceedings could be shared with the list?  Rory was the only  one kind enough to actually share his paper from last summer's meeting. 
>>  
>> But for future collegiality with fellow Siouanists,  perhaps I'm not too far out of line to request that the generously open and friendly tone of the conference not be replaced with the rather frenzied pace of the "standard"  linguistics meeting. 
>>  
>> In the meantime,  thank you for the willingness to host,  and I hope that perhaps the beginning of some kind of Festschrift for Bob could begin to emerge from the group sorrow. 
>>  
>> Sincerely yours,
>> Jill Greer
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>    
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> On Mar 18, 2014, at 10:41 PM, Meredith Johnson <majohnson25 at WISC.EDU>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Dear all,
>>>  
>>> We have a couple of updates about the upcoming 34th Siouan and Caddoan Languages Conference, to be held Friday, May 23 to Sunday, May 25 at the University of Wisconsin-Madison.
>>>  
>>> The conference will be held at Memorial Union, which is on the University of Wisconsin campus in downtown Madison. We have reserved a block of rooms at the Hampton Inn, which is the closest hotel to the conference site (less than a 10 minute walk away). The special conference rate is $119/night for a double room from May 22-25. The rate is available until April 22, and you can access this rate from the following link: http://hamptoninn.hilton.com/en/hp/groups/personalized/M/MSNBJHX-ALC-20140522/index.jhtml
>>>  
>>> If you're on a tighter budget, we suggest finding a hotel on the west side of Madison and taking a bus to the conference. Bus schedules and Google transit planner are available here: http://www.cityofmadison.com/metro/ Please note that there are different schedules for the work week and weekend.
>>>  
>>> Please see attached for a (very) tentative schedule. If you‘d like to secure one of the spots on this schedule, remember to submit an abstract online at http://linguistlist.org/confcustom/SCLC34 by this Sunday, March 23! :)
>>>  
>>> Lastly, we hope to have registration available shortly! We are still waiting for confirmation on our conference funding. If it comes through (fingers crossed!), registration will be free, and there will be a subsidized conference dinner. We will let you know as soon as we do!
>>>  
>>> We hope to have more info for you soon, but in the meantime, please feel free to e-mail with any questions. Also check our new website https://sites.google.com/site/34sclc/accomodations for updates and additional information.
>>>  
>>> All the best,
>>> Meredith Johnson
>>> Bryan Rosen
>>> Matea Schuck
>>> SCLC 34 Organizers
>>>  
>>> <SCLC prelim schedule.pdf>
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> This email may contain identifiable personal information that is subject to protection under state and federal law. This information is intended for the use of the individual named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information    is prohibited and may be punishable by law. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify us immediately by electronic mail (reply).
> 
>  

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From CaRudin1 at WSC.EDU  Wed Mar 19 18:47:03 2014
From: CaRudin1 at WSC.EDU (Catherine Rudin)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2014 13:47:03 -0500
Subject: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34
In-Reply-To: <73E6FFBE-6AF3-4A0C-A085-0CCA55551A5C@wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.19.MAR.2014.134703.0500.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

The link works fine for me.  
 
Jill, I certainly share your sense of loss, but it seems to me the last
thing Bob would have wanted is for folks to not attend the conference
because he won't be there.  Let's all go honor his life by continuing
the work he loved.  
 
Meredith, Bryan, and Matea THANK YOU for an outstanding job organizing
so far -- I've been delighted to see timely information and reminders
not only on the Siouan list but also on LinguistList.  The SCLC has
varied widely over the years -- each organizer does it a little
differently, and that's fine.  I don't see anything closed or unfriendly
in using an online system for submitting abstracts.  I'm not planning on
giving a talk this year (alas, too overbooked to get around to writing
anything up) -- but I definitely plan to attend and am looking forward
to it. 
 
Catherine

>>> Meredith Johnson <majohnson25 at WISC.EDU> 3/19/2014 11:52 AM >>>
Hi again all,

Hmm, that's strange. All three of the organizers tried it, and several
people have successfully uploaded abstracts. I'm guessing Linguist List
was just updating the website. If you have trouble, I would suggest
trying it again a little later. If anyone has continual trouble, please
let me know, and I'll contact Linguist List.

Best,
Meredith
On Mar 19, 2014, at 7:49 AM, Jimm Goodtracks <jgoodtracks at GMAIL.COM>
wrote



For your information, I was unable to connect with the link below on
conference program -   http://linguistlist.org/confcustom/SCLC34
 
From: Meredith Johnson ( mailto:majohnson25 at WISC.EDU ) 
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2014 1:01 AM
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu 
Subject: Re: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34
 
Hi all, 
 
A couple of quick responses to Jill's questions, which I am responding
to on list in case others are interested.
 
Dorm space: to the best of our knowledge, there is no available dorm
space. The conference venue is also on the edge of campus, and all dorms
would actually be further away than the hotel. Having the conference in
an urban setting unfortunately has its drawbacks: we could either choose
a convenient hotel to get a block of rooms in, or a somewhat cheaper one
that would require a long bus ride for participants. 
 
As for going through linguist list: We certainly were not trying to be
formal; there are just three organizers and we all would like access to
all abstracts submitted. I have accepted abstracts that were e-mailed to
me, and if anyone else would prefer to do that, I will happily accept
them and pass them on to the other organizers. All other correspondence
will be done "person-to-person."
 
Of course, if there are any suggestions as to how we can maintain the
"generously open and friendly tone of the conference", don't hesitate to
e-mail me on or off-list. If we have done anything else to offend anyone
while trying to organize this conference, drop me a line.
 
Best,
Meredith
On Mar 19, 2014, at 12:40 AM, "Greer, Jill" <Greer-J at MSSU.EDU> wrote



Dear Meredith, Bryan, and Matea,
 
A couple of questions/comments:  Is there no possibility of less
expensive dorm space?  A shorter walk and/or less expense might make the
conference more friendly to a larger number of folks.  Also,  it seems a
little formal to be going through linguist list rather than directly to
the organizer's emails,  regardless of links provided.  Yes,  I'm sorry
to sound like a grumpy old Luddite,  but surely  linguists of all people
ought to be cognizant of the meta-communicative message of relying on
3rd party providers for 'ease' , so to speak, rather than actual
person-to-person correspondence?  
 
Forgive me for the complaints.  This meeting date is a bit early in the
summer for my calendar,  and I'm not really sure I'm up to going to a
Siouan conference without Bob just yet anyway.  No doubt everyone is
still reeling under that weight, too.  Perhaps the proceedings could be
shared with the list?  Rory was the only  one kind enough to actually
share his paper from last summer's meeting.  
 
But for future collegiality with fellow Siouanists,  perhaps I'm not
too far out of line to request that the generously open and friendly
tone of the conference not be replaced with the rather frenzied pace of
the "standard"  linguistics meeting.  
 
In the meantime,  thank you for the willingness to host,  and I hope
that perhaps the beginning of some kind of Festschrift for Bob could
begin to emerge from the group sorrow.  
 
Sincerely yours,
Jill Greer
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    
 
 
 
On Mar 18, 2014, at 10:41 PM, Meredith Johnson <majohnson25 at WISC.EDU>
wrote:



Dear all,
 
We have a couple of updates about the upcoming 34th Siouan and Caddoan
Languages Conference, to be held Friday, May 23 to Sunday, May 25 at the
University of Wisconsin-Madison.
 
The conference will be held at Memorial Union, which is on the
University of Wisconsin campus in downtown Madison. We have reserved a
block of rooms at the Hampton Inn, which is the closest hotel to the
conference site (less than a 10 minute walk away). The special
conference rate is $119/night for a double room from May 22-25. The rate
is available until April 22, and you can access this rate from the
following link:
http://hamptoninn.hilton.com/en/hp/groups/personalized/M/MSNBJHX-ALC-20140522/index.jhtml
 
If you're on a tighter budget, we suggest finding a hotel on the west
side of Madison and taking a bus to the conference. Bus schedules and
Google transit planner are available here:
http://www.cityofmadison.com/metro/ Please note that there are different
schedules for the work week and weekend.
 
Please see attached for a (very) tentative schedule. If you‘d like to
secure one of the spots on this schedule, remember to submit an abstract
online at http://linguistlist.org/confcustom/SCLC34 by this Sunday,
March 23! :)
 
Lastly, we hope to have registration available shortly! We are still
waiting for confirmation on our conference funding. If it comes through
(fingers crossed!), registration will be free, and there will be a
subsidized conference dinner. We will let you know as soon as we do!
 
We hope to have more info for you soon, but in the meantime, please
feel free to e-mail with any questions. Also check our new website
https://sites.google.com/site/34sclc/accomodations for updates and
additional information.
 
All the best,
Meredith Johnson
Bryan Rosen
Matea Schuck
SCLC 34 Organizers
 
<SCLC prelim schedule.pdf> 

 


This email may contain identifiable personal information that is
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intended for the use of the individual named above. If you are not the
intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution
or use of the contents of this information is prohibited and may be
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From dvkanth2010 at GMAIL.COM  Wed Mar 19 19:36:28 2014
From: dvkanth2010 at GMAIL.COM (David Kaufman)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2014 14:36:28 -0500
Subject: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34
In-Reply-To: <53299FD70200008E000AE808@hermes.wsc.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.19.MAR.2014.143628.0500.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

I must echo Catherine's sentiments.  Although Bob's passing is a loss to us
all, he would have tried to be at the conference if he still could, and, in
spirit, he will still be there.  The conference would be a good opportunity
for all of us to talk about memories of Bob and to perhaps plan a
Festschrift in his honor as Jill proposed.

As a former SCLC organizer, I also want to commend the work that the three
organizers are doing.  It is not easy getting everything organized and
keeping everyone happy, so I can sympathize with the work they have ahead
of them.  Bob welcomed newcomers, including younger people, who will be the
future of Siouan linguistics.  Meredith, Bryan, and Matea are young
newcomers and have taken on a big responsibility in organizing this year's
conference.  Let's hope we have even more newcomers who are as dedicated
and committed to Siouan linguistics as they are!

Things will get worked out.  Hope to see all of you in May!

Dave

David Kaufman
Linguistic Anthropology PhD candidate, University of Kansas
Director, Kaw Nation Language Program


On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 1:47 PM, Catherine Rudin <CaRudin1 at wsc.edu> wrote:

>  The link works fine for me.
>
> Jill, I certainly share your sense of loss, but it seems to me the last
> thing Bob would have wanted is for folks to not attend the conference
> because he won't be there.  Let's all go honor his life by continuing the
> work he loved.
>
> Meredith, Bryan, and Matea THANK YOU for an outstanding job organizing so
> far -- I've been delighted to see timely information and reminders not only
> on the Siouan list but also on LinguistList.  The SCLC has varied widely
> over the years -- each organizer does it a little differently, and that's
> fine.  I don't see anything closed or unfriendly in using an online system
> for submitting abstracts.  I'm not planning on giving a talk this year
> (alas, too overbooked to get around to writing anything up) -- but I
> definitely plan to attend and am looking forward to it.
>
> Catherine
>
> >>> Meredith Johnson <majohnson25 at WISC.EDU> 3/19/2014 11:52 AM >>>
> Hi again all,
>
> Hmm, that's strange. All three of the organizers tried it, and several
> people have successfully uploaded abstracts. I'm guessing Linguist List was
> just updating the website. If you have trouble, I would suggest trying it
> again a little later. If anyone has continual trouble, please let me know,
> and I'll contact Linguist List.
>
> Best,
> Meredith
>  On Mar 19, 2014, at 7:49 AM, Jimm Goodtracks <jgoodtracks at GMAIL.COM>
> wrote
>
>   For your information, I was unable to connect with the link below on
> conference program -   http://linguistlist.org/confcustom/SCLC34
>
>  *From:* Meredith Johnson <majohnson25 at WISC.EDU>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 19, 2014 1:01 AM
> *To:* SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
> *Subject:* Re: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34
>
> Hi all,
>
> A couple of quick responses to Jill's questions, which I am responding to
> on list in case others are interested.
>
> Dorm space: to the best of our knowledge, there is no available dorm
> space. The conference venue is also on the edge of campus, and all dorms
> would actually be further away than the hotel. Having the conference in an
> urban setting unfortunately has its drawbacks: we could either choose a
> convenient hotel to get a block of rooms in, or a somewhat cheaper one that
> would require a long bus ride for participants.
>
> As for going through linguist list: We certainly were not trying to be
> formal; there are just three organizers and we all would like access to all
> abstracts submitted. I have accepted abstracts that were e-mailed to me,
> and if anyone else would prefer to do that, I will happily accept them and
> pass them on to the other organizers. All other correspondence will be done
> "person-to-person."
>
> Of course, if there are any suggestions as to how we can maintain the
> "generously open and friendly tone of the conference", don't hesitate to
> e-mail me on or off-list. If we have done anything else to offend anyone
> while trying to organize this conference, drop me a line.
>
> Best,
> Meredith
>  On Mar 19, 2014, at 12:40 AM, "Greer, Jill" <Greer-J at MSSU.EDU> wrote
>
>  Dear Meredith, Bryan, and Matea,
>
> A couple of questions/comments:  Is there no possibility of less expensive
> dorm space?  A shorter walk and/or less expense might make the conference
> more friendly to a larger number of folks.  Also,  it seems a little formal
> to be going through linguist list rather than directly to the organizer's
> emails,  regardless of links provided.  Yes,  I'm sorry to sound like a
> grumpy old Luddite,  but surely  linguists of all people ought to be
> cognizant of the meta-communicative message of relying on 3rd party
> providers for 'ease' , so to speak, rather than actual person-to-person
> correspondence?
>
> Forgive me for the complaints.  This meeting date is a bit early in the
> summer for my calendar,  and I'm not really sure I'm up to going to a
> Siouan conference without Bob just yet anyway.  No doubt everyone is still
> reeling under that weight, too.  Perhaps the proceedings could be shared
> with the list?  Rory was the only  one kind enough to actually share his
> paper from last summer's meeting.
>
> But for future collegiality with fellow Siouanists,  perhaps I'm not too
> far out of line to request that the generously open and friendly tone of
> the conference not be replaced with the rather frenzied pace of the
> "standard"  linguistics meeting.
>
> In the meantime,  thank you for the willingness to host,  and I hope that
> perhaps the beginning of some kind of Festschrift for Bob could begin to
> emerge from the group sorrow.
>
> Sincerely yours,
> Jill Greer
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  On Mar 18, 2014, at 10:41 PM, Meredith Johnson <majohnson25 at WISC.EDU>
> wrote:
>
>  Dear all,
>
> We have a couple of updates about the upcoming 34th Siouan and Caddoan
> Languages Conference, to be held Friday, May 23 to Sunday, May 25 at the
> University of Wisconsin-Madison.
>
> The conference will be held at Memorial Union, which is on the University
> of Wisconsin campus in downtown Madison. We have reserved a block of rooms
> at the Hampton Inn, which is the closest hotel to the conference site (less
> than a 10 minute walk away). The special conference rate is $119/night for
> a double room from May 22-25. The rate is available until April 22, and you
> can access this rate from the following link:
> http://hamptoninn.hilton.com/en/hp/groups/personalized/M/MSNBJHX-ALC-20140522/index.jhtml
>
> If you're on a tighter budget, we suggest finding a hotel on the west side
> of Madison and taking a bus to the conference. Bus schedules and Google
> transit planner are available here: http://www.cityofmadison.com/metro/Please note that there are different schedules for the work week and
> weekend.
>
> Please see attached for a (very) tentative schedule. If you'd like to
> secure one of the spots on this schedule, remember to submit an abstract
> online at http://linguistlist.org/confcustom/SCLC34 by this Sunday, March
> 23! :)
>
> Lastly, we hope to have registration available shortly! We are still
> waiting for confirmation on our conference funding. If it comes through
> (fingers crossed!), registration will be free, and there will be a
> subsidized conference dinner. We will let you know as soon as we do!
>
> We hope to have more info for you soon, but in the meantime, please feel
> free to e-mail with any questions. Also check our new website
> https://sites.google.com/site/34sclc/accomodations for updates and
> additional information.
>
> All the best,
> Meredith Johnson
> Bryan Rosen
> Matea Schuck
> SCLC 34 Organizers
>
> <SCLC prelim schedule.pdf>
>
>
>
>
> This email may contain identifiable personal information that is subject
> to protection under state and federal law. This information is intended for
> the use of the individual named above. If you are not the intended
> recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of
> the contents of this information is prohibited and may be punishable by
> law. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please
> notify us immediately by electronic mail (reply).
>
>
>
>
>
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From rlarson1 at UNL.EDU  Wed Mar 19 20:15:43 2014
From: rlarson1 at UNL.EDU (Rory Larson)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2014 20:15:43 +0000
Subject: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34
In-Reply-To: <CAKapKjR18W=RGo4pttgpgv5Z72LwNdB2hebN95XatP2odi4HUA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <WED.19.MAR.2014.201543.0000.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

I agree.  Thanks very much to Meredith, Bryan and Matea for all their work in organizing this conference.  I know Bob was really looking forward to attending it.  And Jill, thank you for the proposal that we do a Festschrift for Bob.  I think that's an absolutely wonderful idea, and I hope you will be active in shepherding it along.  :)

Best,
Rory


From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] On Behalf Of David Kaufman
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2014 2:36 PM
To: SIOUAN at LISTSERV.UNL.EDU
Subject: Re: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34

I must echo Catherine's sentiments.  Although Bob's passing is a loss to us all, he would have tried to be at the conference if he still could, and, in spirit, he will still be there.  The conference would be a good opportunity for all of us to talk about memories of Bob and to perhaps plan a Festschrift in his honor as Jill proposed.

As a former SCLC organizer, I also want to commend the work that the three organizers are doing.  It is not easy getting everything organized and keeping everyone happy, so I can sympathize with the work they have ahead of them.  Bob welcomed newcomers, including younger people, who will be the future of Siouan linguistics.  Meredith, Bryan, and Matea are young newcomers and have taken on a big responsibility in organizing this year's conference.  Let's hope we have even more newcomers who are as dedicated and committed to Siouan linguistics as they are!

Things will get worked out.  Hope to see all of you in May!

Dave

David Kaufman
Linguistic Anthropology PhD candidate, University of Kansas
Director, Kaw Nation Language Program

On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 1:47 PM, Catherine Rudin <CaRudin1 at wsc.edu<mailto:CaRudin1 at wsc.edu>> wrote:
The link works fine for me.

Jill, I certainly share your sense of loss, but it seems to me the last thing Bob would have wanted is for folks to not attend the conference because he won't be there.  Let's all go honor his life by continuing the work he loved.

Meredith, Bryan, and Matea THANK YOU for an outstanding job organizing so far -- I've been delighted to see timely information and reminders not only on the Siouan list but also on LinguistList.  The SCLC has varied widely over the years -- each organizer does it a little differently, and that's fine.  I don't see anything closed or unfriendly in using an online system for submitting abstracts.  I'm not planning on giving a talk this year (alas, too overbooked to get around to writing anything up) -- but I definitely plan to attend and am looking forward to it.

Catherine

>>> Meredith Johnson <majohnson25 at WISC.EDU<mailto:majohnson25 at WISC.EDU>> 3/19/2014 11:52 AM >>>
Hi again all,

Hmm, that's strange. All three of the organizers tried it, and several people have successfully uploaded abstracts. I'm guessing Linguist List was just updating the website. If you have trouble, I would suggest trying it again a little later. If anyone has continual trouble, please let me know, and I'll contact Linguist List.

Best,
Meredith
On Mar 19, 2014, at 7:49 AM, Jimm Goodtracks <jgoodtracks at GMAIL.COM<mailto:jgoodtracks at GMAIL.COM>> wrote


For your information, I was unable to connect with the link below on conference program -   http://linguistlist.org/confcustom/SCLC34

From: Meredith Johnson<mailto:majohnson25 at WISC.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2014 1:01 AM
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu<mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu>
Subject: Re: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34

Hi all,

A couple of quick responses to Jill's questions, which I am responding to on list in case others are interested.

Dorm space: to the best of our knowledge, there is no available dorm space. The conference venue is also on the edge of campus, and all dorms would actually be further away than the hotel. Having the conference in an urban setting unfortunately has its drawbacks: we could either choose a convenient hotel to get a block of rooms in, or a somewhat cheaper one that would require a long bus ride for participants.

As for going through linguist list: We certainly were not trying to be formal; there are just three organizers and we all would like access to all abstracts submitted. I have accepted abstracts that were e-mailed to me, and if anyone else would prefer to do that, I will happily accept them and pass them on to the other organizers. All other correspondence will be done "person-to-person."

Of course, if there are any suggestions as to how we can maintain the "generously open and friendly tone of the conference", don't hesitate to e-mail me on or off-list. If we have done anything else to offend anyone while trying to organize this conference, drop me a line.

Best,
Meredith
On Mar 19, 2014, at 12:40 AM, "Greer, Jill" <Greer-J at MSSU.EDU<mailto:Greer-J at MSSU.EDU>> wrote


Dear Meredith, Bryan, and Matea,

A couple of questions/comments:  Is there no possibility of less expensive dorm space?  A shorter walk and/or less expense might make the conference more friendly to a larger number of folks.  Also,  it seems a little formal to be going through linguist list rather than directly to the organizer's emails,  regardless of links provided.  Yes,  I'm sorry to sound like a grumpy old Luddite,  but surely  linguists of all people ought to be cognizant of the meta-communicative message of relying on 3rd party providers for 'ease' , so to speak, rather than actual person-to-person correspondence?

Forgive me for the complaints.  This meeting date is a bit early in the summer for my calendar,  and I'm not really sure I'm up to going to a Siouan conference without Bob just yet anyway.  No doubt everyone is still reeling under that weight, too.  Perhaps the proceedings could be shared with the list?  Rory was the only  one kind enough to actually share his paper from last summer's meeting.

But for future collegiality with fellow Siouanists,  perhaps I'm not too far out of line to request that the generously open and friendly tone of the conference not be replaced with the rather frenzied pace of the "standard"  linguistics meeting.

In the meantime,  thank you for the willingness to host,  and I hope that perhaps the beginning of some kind of Festschrift for Bob could begin to emerge from the group sorrow.

Sincerely yours,
Jill Greer















On Mar 18, 2014, at 10:41 PM, Meredith Johnson <majohnson25 at WISC.EDU<mailto:majohnson25 at WISC.EDU>>
wrote:


Dear all,

We have a couple of updates about the upcoming 34th Siouan and Caddoan Languages Conference, to be held Friday, May 23 to Sunday, May 25 at the University of Wisconsin-Madison.

The conference will be held at Memorial Union, which is on the University of Wisconsin campus in downtown Madison. We have reserved a block of rooms at the Hampton Inn, which is the closest hotel to the conference site (less than a 10 minute walk away). The special conference rate is $119/night for a double room from May 22-25. The rate is available until April 22, and you can access this rate from the following link: http://hamptoninn.hilton.com/en/hp/groups/personalized/M/MSNBJHX-ALC-20140522/index.jhtml

If you're on a tighter budget, we suggest finding a hotel on the west side of Madison and taking a bus to the conference. Bus schedules and Google transit planner are available here: http://www.cityofmadison.com/metro/ Please note that there are different schedules for the work week and weekend.

Please see attached for a (very) tentative schedule. If you'd like to secure one of the spots on this schedule, remember to submit an abstract online at http://linguistlist.org/confcustom/SCLC34 by this Sunday, March 23! :)

Lastly, we hope to have registration available shortly! We are still waiting for confirmation on our conference funding. If it comes through (fingers crossed!), registration will be free, and there will be a subsidized conference dinner. We will let you know as soon as we do!

We hope to have more info for you soon, but in the meantime, please feel free to e-mail with any questions. Also check our new website https://sites.google.com/site/34sclc/accomodations for updates and additional information.

All the best,
Meredith Johnson
Bryan Rosen
Matea Schuck
SCLC 34 Organizers

<SCLC prelim schedule.pdf>



This email may contain identifiable personal information that is subject to protection under state and federal law. This information is intended for the use of the individual named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited and may be punishable by law. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify us immediately by electronic mail (reply).



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From jgoodtracks at GMAIL.COM  Wed Mar 19 21:27:50 2014
From: jgoodtracks at GMAIL.COM (Jimm Goodtracks)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2014 16:27:50 -0500
Subject: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34
In-Reply-To: <53299FD70200008E000AE808@hermes.wsc.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.19.MAR.2014.162750.0500.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

Dear List members and associates:

I very much agree with Catherine, that the greater tribute to Bob is to attend the conference, and continue his love and his life’s work.  No! Physically Bob will not be present except via photos and other material items brought in his name.  However, Bob will definitely be at the conference, because he lives within each of us to whom he has contributed so much to our own being, knowledge and presence.  It was he and John Koontz some thirty years ago that urged my attendance.  Yes, I do indeed anticipate the spirit of his person to be amongst us.

In another note, how close are the Super 8 Motels, Circle 6 and other economy motels to the conference site.  Some of us do not have large personal incomes, and others of us blessed with some kind of a grant wish to make the better, more economical use of the funds.  How big is Madison, as compared to Lincoln and Lawrence? 

And I am unsure about going through some Linguist List, when we have our own Siouan List.  If I don’t see it here, I for my part, am not hunting around on the internet.  I did find the personal conference website.  I will have to bookmark it.  When the conference was at White Cloud, we simply sent out notices and updates to the whole list as they became available, without anyone prompting us by going on line to find us or a special web site for updates.   Just saying.....

I underline Catherine’s Thank You (Ahó, Wibla ha [if that’s correct P/Om], Wénawerihinwi ke and Migwetch) to the organization committee for your tremendous undertaking of accepting the organization of the SCLC which is no small task.  Like your predecessors, your committee will craft another successful and enjoyable conference, that will be remembered in succeeding years ahead.  The success of the White Cloud conference is summed up in the person of Saul Schwartz.  He was the nucleus, the legs, arms, and body that weaved it all into a smooth beautiful composition and presentation, as my own contribution was minimal and marked with medical complications.  May no complications be your reality in Madison.

Like Catherine, I too will not be making a presentation, as I have all I can say grace over on my plate at this time.  However, I hear that one of our assistants is seriously considering presenting on our current CAAP grant, and Saul has thought of revealing the true author of one of the IOM’s most enabling resources that has long been credited to another individual.

Tórigunda
Jimm

From: Catherine Rudin 
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2014 1:47 PM
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu 
Subject: Re: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34

The link works fine for me.  

Jill, I certainly share your sense of loss, but it seems to me the last thing Bob would have wanted is for folks to not attend the conference because he won't be there.  Let's all go honor his life by continuing the work he loved.  

Meredith, Bryan, and Matea THANK YOU for an outstanding job organizing so far -- I've been delighted to see timely information and reminders not only on the Siouan list but also on LinguistList.  The SCLC has varied widely over the years -- each organizer does it a little differently, and that's fine.  I don't see anything closed or unfriendly in using an online system for submitting abstracts.  I'm not planning on giving a talk this year (alas, too overbooked to get around to writing anything up) -- but I definitely plan to attend and am looking forward to it. 

Catherine

>>> Meredith Johnson <majohnson25 at WISC.EDU> 3/19/2014 11:52 AM >>>
Hi again all,

Hmm, that's strange. All three of the organizers tried it, and several people have successfully uploaded abstracts. I'm guessing Linguist List was just updating the website. If you have trouble, I would suggest trying it again a little later. If anyone has continual trouble, please let me know, and I'll contact Linguist List.

Best,
Meredith

On Mar 19, 2014, at 7:49 AM, Jimm Goodtracks <jgoodtracks at GMAIL.COM> wrote


  For your information, I was unable to connect with the link below on conference program -   http://linguistlist.org/confcustom/SCLC34

  From: Meredith Johnson 
  Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2014 1:01 AM
  To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu 
  Subject: Re: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34

  Hi all, 

  A couple of quick responses to Jill's questions, which I am responding to on list in case others are interested.

  Dorm space: to the best of our knowledge, there is no available dorm space. The conference venue is also on the edge of campus, and all dorms would actually be further away than the hotel. Having the conference in an urban setting unfortunately has its drawbacks: we could either choose a convenient hotel to get a block of rooms in, or a somewhat cheaper one that would require a long bus ride for participants. 

  As for going through linguist list: We certainly were not trying to be formal; there are just three organizers and we all would like access to all abstracts submitted. I have accepted abstracts that were e-mailed to me, and if anyone else would prefer to do that, I will happily accept them and pass them on to the other organizers. All other correspondence will be done "person-to-person."

  Of course, if there are any suggestions as to how we can maintain the "generously open and friendly tone of the conference", don't hesitate to e-mail me on or off-list. If we have done anything else to offend anyone while trying to organize this conference, drop me a line.

  Best,
  Meredith
  On Mar 19, 2014, at 12:40 AM, "Greer, Jill" <Greer-J at MSSU.EDU> wrote


    Dear Meredith, Bryan, and Matea,

    A couple of questions/comments:  Is there no possibility of less expensive dorm space?  A shorter walk and/or less expense might make the conference more friendly to a larger number of folks.  Also,  it seems a little formal to be going through linguist list rather than directly to the organizer's emails,  regardless of links provided.  Yes,  I'm sorry to sound like a grumpy old Luddite,  but surely  linguists of all people ought to be cognizant of the meta-communicative message of relying on 3rd party providers for 'ease' , so to speak, rather than actual person-to-person correspondence?  

    Forgive me for the complaints.  This meeting date is a bit early in the summer for my calendar,  and I'm not really sure I'm up to going to a Siouan conference without Bob just yet anyway.  No doubt everyone is still reeling under that weight, too.  Perhaps the proceedings could be shared with the list?  Rory was the only  one kind enough to actually share his paper from last summer's meeting.  

    But for future collegiality with fellow Siouanists,  perhaps I'm not too far out of line to request that the generously open and friendly tone of the conference not be replaced with the rather frenzied pace of the "standard"  linguistics meeting.  

    In the meantime,  thank you for the willingness to host,  and I hope that perhaps the beginning of some kind of Festschrift for Bob could begin to emerge from the group sorrow.  

    Sincerely yours,
    Jill Greer











        



    On Mar 18, 2014, at 10:41 PM, Meredith Johnson <majohnson25 at WISC.EDU>
    wrote:


      Dear all,

      We have a couple of updates about the upcoming 34th Siouan and Caddoan Languages Conference, to be held Friday, May 23 to Sunday, May 25 at the University of Wisconsin-Madison.

      The conference will be held at Memorial Union, which is on the University of Wisconsin campus in downtown Madison. We have reserved a block of rooms at the Hampton Inn, which is the closest hotel to the conference site (less than a 10 minute walk away). The special conference rate is $119/night for a double room from May 22-25. The rate is available until April 22, and you can access this rate from the following link: http://hamptoninn.hilton.com/en/hp/groups/personalized/M/MSNBJHX-ALC-20140522/index.jhtml

      If you're on a tighter budget, we suggest finding a hotel on the west side of Madison and taking a bus to the conference. Bus schedules and Google transit planner are available here: http://www.cityofmadison.com/metro/ Please note that there are different schedules for the work week and weekend.

      Please see attached for a (very) tentative schedule. If you‘d like to secure one of the spots on this schedule, remember to submit an abstract online at http://linguistlist.org/confcustom/SCLC34 by this Sunday, March 23! :)

      Lastly, we hope to have registration available shortly! We are still waiting for confirmation on our conference funding. If it comes through (fingers crossed!), registration will be free, and there will be a subsidized conference dinner. We will let you know as soon as we do!

      We hope to have more info for you soon, but in the meantime, please feel free to e-mail with any questions. Also check our new website https://sites.google.com/site/34sclc/accomodations for updates and additional information.

      All the best,
      Meredith Johnson
      Bryan Rosen
      Matea Schuck
      SCLC 34 Organizers

      <SCLC prelim schedule.pdf> 



    This email may contain identifiable personal information that is subject to protection under state and federal law. This information is intended for the use of the individual named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited and may be punishable by law. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify us immediately by electronic mail (reply). 

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From carudin1 at WSC.EDU  Thu Mar 20 00:51:14 2014
From: carudin1 at WSC.EDU (Catherine Rudin)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2014 19:51:14 -0500
Subject: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34
Message-ID: <WED.19.MAR.2014.195114.0500.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

Festschrift is a great idea.  Let's do it!
Catherine

>>> Rory Larson  03/19/14 3:18 PM >>>
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1.0in;}div.WordSection1{page:WordSection1;}-->I agree.  Thanks very much
to Meredith, Bryan and Matea for all their work in organizing this
conference.  I know Bob was really looking forward to attending it.  And
Jill, thankyou for the proposal that we do a Festschrift for Bob.  I
think that*s an absolutely wonderful idea, and I hope you will be active
in shepherding it along.  :)
 
Best,
Rory
 
 
From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu]On Behalf Of
David Kaufman
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2014 2:36 PM
To: SIOUAN at LISTSERV.UNL.EDU
Subject: Re: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34

 
I must echo Catherine's sentiments.  Although Bob's passing is a loss to
us all, he would have tried to be at the conference if he still could,
and, in spirit, he will still be there.  The conference would be a good
opportunity for all of us to talk about memories of Bob and to perhaps
plan a Festschrift in his honor as Jill proposed.   
 

As a former SCLC organizer, I also want to commend the work that the
three organizers are doing.  It is not easy getting everything organized
and keeping everyone happy, so I can sympathize with the work they have
ahead of them.  Bob welcomed newcomers, including younger people, who
will be the future of Siouan linguistics.  Meredith, Bryan, and Matea
are young newcomers and have taken on a big responsibility in organizing
this year's conference.  Let's hope we have even more newcomers who are
as dedicated and committed to Siouan linguistics as they are!

 

Things will get worked out.  Hope to see all of you in May!

 

Dave




David Kaufman

Linguistic Anthropology PhD candidate, University of Kansas

Director, Kaw Nation Language Program


 
On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 1:47 PM, Catherine Rudin <CaRudin1 at wsc.edu>
wrote:
The link works fine for me. 

 

Jill, I certainly share your sense of loss, but it seems to me the last
thing Bob would have wanted is for folks to not attend the conference
because he won't be there.  Let's all go honor his life by continuing
the work he loved.  

 

Meredith, Bryan, and Matea THANK YOU for an outstanding job organizing
so far -- I've been delighted to see timely information and reminders
not only on the Siouan list but also on LinguistList.  The SCLC has
varied widely over the years -- each organizer does it a little
differently, and that's fine.  I don't see anything closed or unfriendly
in using an online system for submitting abstracts.  I'm not planning on
giving a talk this year (alas, too overbooked to get around to writing
anything up) -- but I definitely plan to attend and am looking forward
to it.

 

Catherine


>>> Meredith Johnson <majohnson25 at WISC.EDU> 3/19/2014 11:52 AM >>>
Hi again all,

 

Hmm, that's strange. All three of the organizers tried it, and several
people have successfully uploaded abstracts. I'm guessing Linguist List
was just updating the website. If you have trouble, I would suggest
trying it again a little later. If anyone has continual trouble, please
let me know, and I'll contact Linguist List.

 

Best,

Meredith
On Mar 19, 2014, at 7:49 AM, Jimm Goodtracks <jgoodtracks at GMAIL.COM>
wrote




For your information, I was unable to connect with the link below on
conference program -  http://linguistlist.org/confcustom/SCLC34

 

From:Meredith Johnson 

Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2014 1:01 AM

To:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu 

Subject: Re: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34



 


Hi all,
 

A couple of quick responses to Jill's questions, which I am responding
to on list in case others are interested.

 

Dorm space: to the best of our knowledge, there is no available dorm
space. The conference venue is also on the edge of campus, and all dorms
would actually be further away than the hotel. Having the conference in
an urban setting unfortunately has its drawbacks: we could either choose
a convenient hotel to get a block of rooms in, or a somewhat cheaper one
that would require a long bus ride for participants.

 

As for going through linguist list: We certainly were not trying to be
formal; there are just three organizers and we all would like access to
all abstracts submitted. I have accepted abstracts that were e-mailed to
me, and if anyone else would prefer to do that, I will happily accept
them and pass them on to the other organizers. All other correspondence
will be done "person-to-person."

 

Of course, if there are any suggestions as to how we can maintain the
"generously open and friendly tone of the conference", don't hesitate to
e-mail me on or off-list. If we have done anything else to offend anyone
while trying to organize this conference, drop me a line.

 

Best,

Meredith

On Mar 19, 2014, at 12:40 AM, "Greer, Jill" <Greer-J at MSSU.EDU> wrote




Dear Meredith, Bryan, and Matea,

 

A couple of questions/comments:  Is there no possibility of less
expensive dorm space?  A shorter walk and/or less expense might make the
conference more friendly to a larger number of folks.  Also,  it seems a
little formal to be going through linguist list rather than directly to
the organizer's emails,  regardless of links provided.  Yes,  I'm sorry
to sound like a grumpy old Luddite,  but surely  linguists of all people
ought to be cognizant of the meta-communicative message of relying on
3rd party providers for 'ease' , so to speak, rather than actual
person-to-person correspondence? 

 

Forgive me for the complaints.  This meeting date is a bit early in the
summer for my calendar,  and I'm not really sure I'm up to going to a
Siouan conference without Bob just yet anyway.  No doubt everyone is
still reeling under that weight, too.  Perhaps the proceedings could be
shared with the list?  Rory was the only  one kind enough to actually
share his paper from last summer's meeting. 

 

But for future collegiality with fellow Siouanists,  perhaps I'm not too
far out of line to request that the generously open and friendly tone of
the conference not be replaced with the rather frenzied pace of the
"standard"  linguistics meeting.  

 

In the meantime,  thank you for the willingness to host,  and I hope
that perhaps the beginning of some kind of Festschrift for Bob could
begin to emerge from the group sorrow. 

 

Sincerely yours,

Jill Greer

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

   

 

 

 

On Mar 18, 2014, at 10:41 PM, Meredith Johnson <majohnson25 at WISC.EDU>

wrote:




Dear all,

 

We have a couple of updates about the upcoming 34th Siouan and Caddoan
Languages Conference, to be held Friday, May 23 to Sunday, May 25 at the
University of Wisconsin-Madison.

 

The conference will be held at Memorial Union, which is on the
University of Wisconsin campus in downtown Madison. We have reserved a
block of rooms at the Hampton Inn, which is the closest hotel to the
conference site (less than a 10 minute walk away). The special
conference rate is $119/night for a double room from May 22-25. The rate
is available until April 22, and you can access this rate from the
following
link:http://hamptoninn.hilton.com/en/hp/groups/personalized/M/MSNBJHX-ALC-20140522/index.jhtml

 

If you're on a tighter budget, we suggest finding a hotel on the west
side of Madison and taking a bus to the conference. Bus schedules and
Google transit planner are available here:
http://www.cityofmadison.com/metro/ Please note that there are different
schedules for the work week and weekend.

 

Please see attached for a (very) tentative schedule. If you*d like to
secure one of the spots on this schedule, remember to submit an abstract
online athttp://linguistlist.org/confcustom/SCLC34 by this Sunday, March
23! :)

 

Lastly, we hope to have registration available shortly! We are still
waiting for confirmation on our conference funding. If it comes through
(fingers crossed!), registration will be free, and there will be a
subsidized conference dinner. We will let you know as soon as we do!

 

We hope to have more info for you soon, but in the meantime, please feel
free to e-mail with any questions. Also check our new
websitehttps://sites.google.com/site/34sclc/accomodations for updates
and additional information.

 

All the best,

Meredith Johnson

Bryan Rosen

Matea Schuck

SCLC 34 Organizers

 




 




This email may contain identifiable personal information that is subject
to protection under state and federal law. This information is intended
for the use of the individual named above. If you are not the intended
recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of
the contents of this information is prohibited and may be punishable by
law. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please
notify us immediately by electronic mail (reply).


 







 



 



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From carudin1 at WSC.EDU  Thu Mar 20 00:59:47 2014
From: carudin1 at WSC.EDU (Catherine Rudin)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2014 19:59:47 -0500
Subject: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34
Message-ID: <WED.19.MAR.2014.195947.0500.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

Jimm, Madison is bigger than Lincoln and Lawrence, but not a whole lot bigger.  I'm sure you could find an affordable motel within a 15 or 20 minute drive from downtown/campus.  Parking near campus can be tricky, but there's a public parking garage just a couple of blocks from the Union (where the conference will be held) so that shouldn't be a problem. Madison has a good bus system so it might be convenient to leave the car at a motel and take the bus in.   
Catherine

>>> Jimm Goodtracks  03/19/14 4:29 PM >>>
In another note, how close are the Super 8 Motels, Circle 6 and other economy motels to the conference site.  Some of us do not have large personal incomes, and others of us blessed with some kind of a grant wish to make the better, more economical use of the funds.  How big is Madison, as compared to Lincoln and Lawrence?  



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From majohnson25 at WISC.EDU  Thu Mar 20 04:49:11 2014
From: majohnson25 at WISC.EDU (Meredith Johnson)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2014 23:49:11 -0500
Subject: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34
In-Reply-To: <C1ADF3F82DAF47FDAC28AF824E245160@AsusLaptop>
Message-ID: <WED.19.MAR.2014.234911.0500.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

Dear all,

Thank you for all the questions, comments and feedback. Here are some responses, and please let me know if I missed anything.

A few people in this thread have mentioned doing something at the conference to honor Dr. Rankin, which all of the organizers are very much in favor of! Is anyone willing to take the lead on this? If someone could take the initiative and let us know how much time you would like to devote to this, we will put it on the schedule right away. Also of course let us know if you need anything else from us to help put this together!

With respect to accommodations in Madison. There are two Super 8 hotels in Madison. The Madison South location is 3.3 miles from the conference site, which would be a 30 minute bus ride. This Madison East location is a little bit cheaper, but it is 7.3 miles away and a 45 minute bus ride. There's also an Econo Lodge on E Washington that is 7 miles/60 min bus ride away, and the Motel 6 Madison North location is 6 miles/40 minute bus ride away.

Madison is home to a Big Ten university which hosts athletic events, conferences, and other world-renowned events throughout the year.  This is why hotel space near the campus is higher in cost. It's not a huge city, but the downtown ares is located on an isthmus, so space is at a premium and costs reflect that. We wanted to make the conference as cheap and accessible as possible, which is why we opted for free conference space on campus rather than renting out space at a hotel, which would necessitated the charging of a conference fee. We chose a convenient hotel for our block of rooms, since sharing a room at that hotel would be cheaper than getting a single room farther out. We are three grad students organizing the conference, and we often travel to conferences with no funding, so we certainly are sensitive to costs of attending conferences. We recommend either sharing rooms at a hotel by campus, or taking a bus from a more remote hotel for those on a tight budget.

To address your point about Linguist List, Linguist List is an expansive web site utilized by tens of thousands of linguists worldwide to access any all things linguistics-related in the academic field.  We chose to utilize Linguist List for our conference announcement and abstract submission, as many other conferences worldwide do, because of its convenience.  We wanted one central place from which to access and review abstract submissions, to ensure that everything gets handled in an efficient and timely manner, and minimizing the chance of something getting missed lost in communication between the three of us. We're not using Linguist List instead of the Siouan List, we are just taking advantage of certain utilities to help make planning easier.

We also thought it would be advantageous to have one central website for all conference related information so that attendees do not have to sift through old emails to find relevant information. We also recognize the conference might be of interest to people that are not on the Siouan list, so we want all information widely available. (That's also why the conference was announced both here and on the Linguist List). We plan on disseminating all information through the Siouan list as well, so no one needs to rely on checking the website if they do not want to.

We hope this helps, and please let us know if you have any further questions.

Best,
Meredith
On Mar 19, 2014, at 4:27 PM, Jimm Goodtracks <jgoodtracks at GMAIL.COM> wrote:

> Dear List members and associates:
>  
> I very much agree with Catherine, that the greater tribute to Bob is to attend the conference, and continue his love and his life’s work.  No! Physically Bob will not be present except via photos and other material items brought in his name.  However, Bob will definitely be at the conference, because he lives within each of us to whom he has contributed so much to our own being, knowledge and presence.  It was he and John Koontz some thirty years ago that urged my attendance.  Yes, I do indeed anticipate the spirit of his person to be amongst us.
>  
> In another note, how close are the Super 8 Motels, Circle 6 and other economy motels to the conference site.  Some of us do not have large personal incomes, and others of us blessed with some kind of a grant wish to make the better, more economical use of the funds.  How big is Madison, as compared to Lincoln and Lawrence?
>  
> And I am unsure about going through some Linguist List, when we have our own Siouan List.  If I don’t see it here, I for my part, am not hunting around on the internet.  I did find the personal conference website.  I will have to bookmark it.  When the conference was at White Cloud, we simply sent out notices and updates to the whole list as they became available, without anyone prompting us by going on line to find us or a special web site for updates.   Just saying.....
>  
> I underline Catherine’s Thank You (Ahó, Wibla ha [if that’s correct P/Om], Wénawerihinwi ke and Migwetch) to the organization committee for your tremendous undertaking of accepting the organization of the SCLC which is no small task.  Like your predecessors, your committee will craft another successful and enjoyable conference, that will be remembered in succeeding years ahead.  The success of the White Cloud conference is summed up in the person of Saul Schwartz.  He was the nucleus, the legs, arms, and body that weaved it all into a smooth beautiful composition and presentation, as my own contribution was minimal and marked with medical complications.  May no complications be your reality in Madison.
>  
> Like Catherine, I too will not be making a presentation, as I have all I can say grace over on my plate at this time.  However, I hear that one of our assistants is seriously considering presenting on our current CAAP grant, and Saul has thought of revealing the true author of one of the IOM’s most enabling resources that has long been credited to another individual.
>  
> Tórigunda
> Jimm
>  
> From: Catherine Rudin
> Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2014 1:47 PM
> To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
> Subject: Re: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34
>  
> The link works fine for me. 
>  
> Jill, I certainly share your sense of loss, but it seems to me the last thing Bob would have wanted is for folks to not attend the conference because he won't be there.  Let's all go honor his life by continuing the work he loved. 
>  
> Meredith, Bryan, and Matea THANK YOU for an outstanding job organizing so far -- I've been delighted to see timely information and reminders not only on the Siouan list but also on LinguistList.  The SCLC has varied widely over the years -- each organizer does it a little differently, and that's fine.  I don't see anything closed or unfriendly in using an online system for submitting abstracts.  I'm not planning on giving a talk this year (alas, too overbooked to get around to writing anything up) -- but I definitely plan to attend and am looking forward to it.
>  
> Catherine
> 
> >>> Meredith Johnson <majohnson25 at WISC.EDU> 3/19/2014 11:52 AM >>>
> Hi again all,
>  
> Hmm, that's strange. All three of the organizers tried it, and several people have successfully uploaded abstracts. I'm guessing Linguist List was just updating the website. If you have trouble, I would suggest trying it again a little later. If anyone has continual trouble, please let me know, and I'll contact Linguist List.
>  
> Best,
> Meredith
> On Mar 19, 2014, at 7:49 AM, Jimm Goodtracks <jgoodtracks at GMAIL.COM> wrote
> 
>> For your information, I was unable to connect with the link below on conference program -   http://linguistlist.org/confcustom/SCLC34
>>  
>> From: Meredith Johnson
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2014 1:01 AM
>> To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
>> Subject: Re: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34
>>  
>> Hi all,
>>  
>> A couple of quick responses to Jill's questions, which I am responding to on list in case others are interested.
>>  
>> Dorm space: to the best of our knowledge, there is no available dorm space. The conference venue is also on the edge of campus, and all dorms would actually be further away than the hotel. Having the conference in an urban setting unfortunately has its drawbacks: we could either choose a convenient hotel to get a block of rooms in, or a somewhat cheaper one that would require a long bus ride for participants.
>>  
>> As for going through linguist list: We certainly were not trying to be formal; there are just three organizers and we all would like access to all abstracts submitted. I have accepted abstracts that were e-mailed to me, and if anyone else would prefer to do that, I will happily accept them and pass them on to the other organizers. All other correspondence will be done "person-to-person."
>>  
>> Of course, if there are any suggestions as to how we can maintain the "generously open and friendly tone of the conference", don't hesitate to e-mail me on or off-list. If we have done anything else to offend anyone while trying to organize this conference, drop me a line.
>>  
>> Best,
>> Meredith
>> On Mar 19, 2014, at 12:40 AM, "Greer, Jill" <Greer-J at MSSU.EDU> wrote
>> 
>>> Dear Meredith, Bryan, and Matea,
>>>  
>>> A couple of questions/comments:  Is there no possibility of less expensive dorm space?  A shorter walk and/or less expense might make the conference more friendly to a larger number of folks.  Also,  it seems a little formal to be going through linguist list rather than directly to the organizer's emails,  regardless of links provided.  Yes,  I'm sorry to sound like a grumpy old Luddite,  but surely  linguists of all people ought to be cognizant of the meta-communicative message of relying on 3rd party providers for 'ease' , so to speak, rather than actual person-to-person correspondence? 
>>>  
>>> Forgive me for the complaints.  This meeting date is a bit early in the summer for my calendar,  and I'm not really sure I'm up to going to a Siouan conference without Bob just yet anyway.  No doubt everyone is still reeling under that weight, too.  Perhaps the proceedings could be shared with the list?  Rory was the only  one kind enough to actually share his paper from last summer's meeting. 
>>>  
>>> But for future collegiality with fellow Siouanists,  perhaps I'm not too far out of line to request that the generously open and friendly tone of the conference not be replaced with the rather frenzied pace of the "standard"  linguistics meeting. 
>>>  
>>> In the meantime,  thank you for the willingness to host,  and I hope that perhaps the beginning of some kind of Festschrift for Bob could begin to emerge from the group sorrow. 
>>>  
>>> Sincerely yours,
>>> Jill Greer
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>>    
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>> On Mar 18, 2014, at 10:41 PM, Meredith Johnson <majohnson25 at WISC.EDU>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Dear all,
>>>>  
>>>> We have a couple of updates about the upcoming 34th Siouan and Caddoan Languages Conference, to be held Friday, May 23 to Sunday, May 25 at the University of Wisconsin-Madison.
>>>>  
>>>> The conference will be held at Memorial Union, which is on the University of Wisconsin campus in downtown Madison. We have reserved a block of rooms at the Hampton Inn, which is the closest hotel to the conference site (less than a 10 minute walk away). The special conference rate is $119/night for a double room from May 22-25. The rate is available until April 22, and you can access this rate from the following link: http://hamptoninn.hilton.com/en/hp/groups/personalized/M/MSNBJHX-ALC-20140522/index.jhtml
>>>>  
>>>> If you're on a tighter budget, we suggest finding a hotel on the west side of Madison and taking a bus to the conference. Bus schedules and Google transit planner are available here: http://www.cityofmadison.com/metro/ Please note that there are different schedules for the work week and weekend.
>>>>  
>>>> Please see attached for a (very) tentative schedule. If you‘d like to secure one of the spots on this schedule, remember to submit an abstract online at http://linguistlist.org/confcustom/SCLC34 by this Sunday, March 23! :)
>>>>  
>>>> Lastly, we hope to have registration available shortly! We are still waiting for confirmation on our conference funding. If it comes through (fingers crossed!), registration will be free, and there will be a subsidized conference dinner. We will let you know as soon as we do!
>>>>  
>>>> We hope to have more info for you soon, but in the meantime, please feel free to e-mail with any questions. Also check our new website https://sites.google.com/site/34sclc/accomodations for updates and additional information.
>>>>  
>>>> All the best,
>>>> Meredith Johnson
>>>> Bryan Rosen
>>>> Matea Schuck
>>>> SCLC 34 Organizers
>>>>  
>>>> <SCLC prelim schedule.pdf>
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> 
>>> This email may contain identifiable personal information that is subject to protection under state and federal law. This information is intended for the use of the individual named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited and may be punishable by law. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify us immediately by electronic mail (reply).
>> 
>>  
> 
>  

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From Johannes.Helmbrecht at SPRACHLIT.UNI-REGENSBURG.DE  Thu Mar 20 08:46:10 2014
From: Johannes.Helmbrecht at SPRACHLIT.UNI-REGENSBURG.DE (Johannes Helmbrecht)
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 09:46:10 +0100
Subject: Antw: Re: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34
In-Reply-To: <5329F5320200008E000AE8D4@hermes.wsc.edu>
Message-ID: <THU.20.MAR.2014.094610.0100.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

Dear Siouanists,

I strongly agree with Cathrin and Gill that we should honor Bob's work by
continuing our research on Siouan languages and by producing a festschrift. One
 idea in this direction could be that we put together the papers we had
produced for our Comparative Siouan Grammar project. I know that Bob loved this
project although we never managed to compile a volume.

All the best
Johannes
 

-- 
 
Professor Dr. Johannes Helmbrecht
Lehrstuhl für Allgemeine und Vergleichende Sprachwissenschaft
Fakultät für Sprach-, Literatur- und Kulturwissenschaften
Universität Regensburg
Universitätsstrasse 31
D-93053 Regensburg

Tel. 0941/943-3388
Tel. 0941/943-3387 (Sekretariat)
Fax. 0941/943-2429
 
Website:
www-avs.uni-regensburg.de
 
E-mail:
johannes.helmbrecht at sprachlit.uni-regensburg.de
 
 


>>> Catherine Rudin <carudin1 at WSC.EDU> schrieb am 20.03.2014 um 01:51:
> Festschrift is a great idea.  Let's do it!
> Catherine
> 
>>>> Rory Larson  03/19/14 3:18 PM >>>
> <!--/* Font Definitions */@font-face{font-family:SimSun;panose-1:2 1 6 0
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> New
> Roman","serif";color:#1F497D;}span.BalloonTextChar{mso-style-name:"Balloon
> Text Char";mso-style-priority:99;mso-style-link:"Balloon
>
Text";font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";}.MsoChpDefault{mso-style-type:export-onl
> y;font-size:10.0pt;}@page
> WordSection1{size:8.5in 11.0in;margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in
> 1.0in;}div.WordSection1{page:WordSection1;}-->I agree.  Thanks very much
> to Meredith, Bryan and Matea for all their work in organizing this
> conference.  I know Bob was really looking forward to attending it.  And
> Jill, thankyou for the proposal that we do a Festschrift for Bob.  I
> think that*s an absolutely wonderful idea, and I hope you will be active
> in shepherding it along.  :)
>  
> Best,
> Rory
>  
>  
> From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu]On Behalf Of
> David Kaufman
> Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2014 2:36 PM
> To: SIOUAN at LISTSERV.UNL.EDU 
> Subject: Re: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34
> 
>  
> I must echo Catherine's sentiments.  Although Bob's passing is a loss to
> us all, he would have tried to be at the conference if he still could,
> and, in spirit, he will still be there.  The conference would be a good
> opportunity for all of us to talk about memories of Bob and to perhaps
> plan a Festschrift in his honor as Jill proposed.   
>  
> 
> As a former SCLC organizer, I also want to commend the work that the
> three organizers are doing.  It is not easy getting everything organized
> and keeping everyone happy, so I can sympathize with the work they have
> ahead of them.  Bob welcomed newcomers, including younger people, who
> will be the future of Siouan linguistics.  Meredith, Bryan, and Matea
> are young newcomers and have taken on a big responsibility in organizing
> this year's conference.  Let's hope we have even more newcomers who are
> as dedicated and committed to Siouan linguistics as they are!
> 
>  
> 
> Things will get worked out.  Hope to see all of you in May!
> 
>  
> 
> Dave
> 
> 
> 
> 
> David Kaufman
> 
> Linguistic Anthropology PhD candidate, University of Kansas
> 
> Director, Kaw Nation Language Program
> 
> 
>  
> On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 1:47 PM, Catherine Rudin <CaRudin1 at wsc.edu>
> wrote:
> The link works fine for me. 
> 
>  
> 
> Jill, I certainly share your sense of loss, but it seems to me the last
> thing Bob would have wanted is for folks to not attend the conference
> because he won't be there.  Let's all go honor his life by continuing
> the work he loved.  
> 
>  
> 
> Meredith, Bryan, and Matea THANK YOU for an outstanding job organizing
> so far -- I've been delighted to see timely information and reminders
> not only on the Siouan list but also on LinguistList.  The SCLC has
> varied widely over the years -- each organizer does it a little
> differently, and that's fine.  I don't see anything closed or unfriendly
> in using an online system for submitting abstracts.  I'm not planning on
> giving a talk this year (alas, too overbooked to get around to writing
> anything up) -- but I definitely plan to attend and am looking forward
> to it.
> 
>  
> 
> Catherine
> 
> 
>>>> Meredith Johnson <majohnson25 at WISC.EDU> 3/19/2014 11:52 AM >>>
> Hi again all,
> 
>  
> 
> Hmm, that's strange. All three of the organizers tried it, and several
> people have successfully uploaded abstracts. I'm guessing Linguist List
> was just updating the website. If you have trouble, I would suggest
> trying it again a little later. If anyone has continual trouble, please
> let me know, and I'll contact Linguist List.
> 
>  
> 
> Best,
> 
> Meredith
> On Mar 19, 2014, at 7:49 AM, Jimm Goodtracks <jgoodtracks at GMAIL.COM>
> wrote
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For your information, I was unable to connect with the link below on
> conference program -  http://linguistlist.org/confcustom/SCLC34 
> 
>  
> 
> From:Meredith Johnson 
> 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2014 1:01 AM
> 
> To:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu 
> 
> Subject: Re: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> Hi all,
>  
> 
> A couple of quick responses to Jill's questions, which I am responding
> to on list in case others are interested.
> 
>  
> 
> Dorm space: to the best of our knowledge, there is no available dorm
> space. The conference venue is also on the edge of campus, and all dorms
> would actually be further away than the hotel. Having the conference in
> an urban setting unfortunately has its drawbacks: we could either choose
> a convenient hotel to get a block of rooms in, or a somewhat cheaper one
> that would require a long bus ride for participants.
> 
>  
> 
> As for going through linguist list: We certainly were not trying to be
> formal; there are just three organizers and we all would like access to
> all abstracts submitted. I have accepted abstracts that were e-mailed to
> me, and if anyone else would prefer to do that, I will happily accept
> them and pass them on to the other organizers. All other correspondence
> will be done "person-to-person."
> 
>  
> 
> Of course, if there are any suggestions as to how we can maintain the
> "generously open and friendly tone of the conference", don't hesitate to
> e-mail me on or off-list. If we have done anything else to offend anyone
> while trying to organize this conference, drop me a line.
> 
>  
> 
> Best,
> 
> Meredith
> 
> On Mar 19, 2014, at 12:40 AM, "Greer, Jill" <Greer-J at MSSU.EDU> wrote
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dear Meredith, Bryan, and Matea,
> 
>  
> 
> A couple of questions/comments:  Is there no possibility of less
> expensive dorm space?  A shorter walk and/or less expense might make the
> conference more friendly to a larger number of folks.  Also,  it seems a
> little formal to be going through linguist list rather than directly to
> the organizer's emails,  regardless of links provided.  Yes,  I'm sorry
> to sound like a grumpy old Luddite,  but surely  linguists of all people
> ought to be cognizant of the meta-communicative message of relying on
> 3rd party providers for 'ease' , so to speak, rather than actual
> person-to-person correspondence? 
> 
>  
> 
> Forgive me for the complaints.  This meeting date is a bit early in the
> summer for my calendar,  and I'm not really sure I'm up to going to a
> Siouan conference without Bob just yet anyway.  No doubt everyone is
> still reeling under that weight, too.  Perhaps the proceedings could be
> shared with the list?  Rory was the only  one kind enough to actually
> share his paper from last summer's meeting. 
> 
>  
> 
> But for future collegiality with fellow Siouanists,  perhaps I'm not too
> far out of line to request that the generously open and friendly tone of
> the conference not be replaced with the rather frenzied pace of the
> "standard"  linguistics meeting.  
> 
>  
> 
> In the meantime,  thank you for the willingness to host,  and I hope
> that perhaps the beginning of some kind of Festschrift for Bob could
> begin to emerge from the group sorrow. 
> 
>  
> 
> Sincerely yours,
> 
> Jill Greer
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>    
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> On Mar 18, 2014, at 10:41 PM, Meredith Johnson <majohnson25 at WISC.EDU>
> 
> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dear all,
> 
>  
> 
> We have a couple of updates about the upcoming 34th Siouan and Caddoan
> Languages Conference, to be held Friday, May 23 to Sunday, May 25 at the
> University of Wisconsin-Madison.
> 
>  
> 
> The conference will be held at Memorial Union, which is on the
> University of Wisconsin campus in downtown Madison. We have reserved a
> block of rooms at the Hampton Inn, which is the closest hotel to the
> conference site (less than a 10 minute walk away). The special
> conference rate is $119/night for a double room from May 22-25. The rate
> is available until April 22, and you can access this rate from the
> following
>
link:http://hamptoninn.hilton.com/en/hp/groups/personalized/M/MSNBJHX-ALC-2014

> 0522/index.jhtml
> 
>  
> 
> If you're on a tighter budget, we suggest finding a hotel on the west
> side of Madison and taking a bus to the conference. Bus schedules and
> Google transit planner are available here:
> http://www.cityofmadison.com/metro/ Please note that there are different
> schedules for the work week and weekend.
> 
>  
> 
> Please see attached for a (very) tentative schedule. If you*d like to
> secure one of the spots on this schedule, remember to submit an abstract
> online athttp://linguistlist.org/confcustom/SCLC34 by this Sunday, March
> 23! :)
> 
>  
> 
> Lastly, we hope to have registration available shortly! We are still
> waiting for confirmation on our conference funding. If it comes through
> (fingers crossed!), registration will be free, and there will be a
> subsidized conference dinner. We will let you know as soon as we do!
> 
>  
> 
> We hope to have more info for you soon, but in the meantime, please feel
> free to e-mail with any questions. Also check our new
> websitehttps://sites.google.com/site/34sclc/accomodations for updates
> and additional information.
> 
>  
> 
> All the best,
> 
> Meredith Johnson
> 
> Bryan Rosen
> 
> Matea Schuck
> 
> SCLC 34 Organizers
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This email may contain identifiable personal information that is subject
> to protection under state and federal law. This information is intended
> for the use of the individual named above. If you are not the intended
> recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of
> the contents of this information is prohibited and may be punishable by
> law. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please
> notify us immediately by electronic mail (reply).
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 


From Granta at EDGEHILL.AC.UK  Thu Mar 20 10:24:31 2014
From: Granta at EDGEHILL.AC.UK (Anthony Grant)
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 10:24:31 +0000
Subject: Antw: Re: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34
In-Reply-To: <532AB8E2020000400005D5E0@gwsmtp1.uni-regensburg.de>
Message-ID: <THU.20.MAR.2014.102431.0000.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

Could I suggest that the festschrift contain some of Bob's inedita - conference papers he wrote up but didn't publish?  He did one or two of these on Quapaw, I believe, and there must be others.

Anthony
________________________________________
From: Siouan Linguistics <SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu> on behalf of Johannes Helmbrecht <Johannes.Helmbrecht at SPRACHLIT.UNI-REGENSBURG.DE>
Sent: 20 March 2014 08:46
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
Subject: Antw: Re: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34

Dear Siouanists,

I strongly agree with Cathrin and Gill that we should honor Bob's work by
continuing our research on Siouan languages and by producing a festschrift. One
 idea in this direction could be that we put together the papers we had
produced for our Comparative Siouan Grammar project. I know that Bob loved this
project although we never managed to compile a volume.

All the best
Johannes


--

Professor Dr. Johannes Helmbrecht
Lehrstuhl für Allgemeine und Vergleichende Sprachwissenschaft
Fakultät für Sprach-, Literatur- und Kulturwissenschaften
Universität Regensburg
Universitätsstrasse 31
D-93053 Regensburg

Tel. 0941/943-3388
Tel. 0941/943-3387 (Sekretariat)
Fax. 0941/943-2429

Website:
www-avs.uni-regensburg.de

E-mail:
johannes.helmbrecht at sprachlit.uni-regensburg.de




>>> Catherine Rudin <carudin1 at WSC.EDU> schrieb am 20.03.2014 um 01:51:
> Festschrift is a great idea.  Let's do it!
> Catherine
>
>>>> Rory Larson  03/19/14 3:18 PM >>>
> <!--/* Font Definitions */@font-face{font-family:SimSun;panose-1:2 1 6 0
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> Times
> New
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> es
> New
> Roman","serif";color:#1F497D;}span.BalloonTextChar{mso-style-name:"Balloon
> Text Char";mso-style-priority:99;mso-style-link:"Balloon
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Text";font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";}.MsoChpDefault{mso-style-type:export-onl
> y;font-size:10.0pt;}@page
> WordSection1{size:8.5in 11.0in;margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in
> 1.0in;}div.WordSection1{page:WordSection1;}-->I agree.  Thanks very much
> to Meredith, Bryan and Matea for all their work in organizing this
> conference.  I know Bob was really looking forward to attending it.  And
> Jill, thankyou for the proposal that we do a Festschrift for Bob.  I
> think that*s an absolutely wonderful idea, and I hope you will be active
> in shepherding it along.  :)
>
> Best,
> Rory
>
>
> From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu]On Behalf Of
> David Kaufman
> Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2014 2:36 PM
> To: SIOUAN at LISTSERV.UNL.EDU
> Subject: Re: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34
>
>
> I must echo Catherine's sentiments.  Although Bob's passing is a loss to
> us all, he would have tried to be at the conference if he still could,
> and, in spirit, he will still be there.  The conference would be a good
> opportunity for all of us to talk about memories of Bob and to perhaps
> plan a Festschrift in his honor as Jill proposed.
>
>
> As a former SCLC organizer, I also want to commend the work that the
> three organizers are doing.  It is not easy getting everything organized
> and keeping everyone happy, so I can sympathize with the work they have
> ahead of them.  Bob welcomed newcomers, including younger people, who
> will be the future of Siouan linguistics.  Meredith, Bryan, and Matea
> are young newcomers and have taken on a big responsibility in organizing
> this year's conference.  Let's hope we have even more newcomers who are
> as dedicated and committed to Siouan linguistics as they are!
>
>
>
> Things will get worked out.  Hope to see all of you in May!
>
>
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
> David Kaufman
>
> Linguistic Anthropology PhD candidate, University of Kansas
>
> Director, Kaw Nation Language Program
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 1:47 PM, Catherine Rudin <CaRudin1 at wsc.edu>
> wrote:
> The link works fine for me.
>
>
>
> Jill, I certainly share your sense of loss, but it seems to me the last
> thing Bob would have wanted is for folks to not attend the conference
> because he won't be there.  Let's all go honor his life by continuing
> the work he loved.
>
>
>
> Meredith, Bryan, and Matea THANK YOU for an outstanding job organizing
> so far -- I've been delighted to see timely information and reminders
> not only on the Siouan list but also on LinguistList.  The SCLC has
> varied widely over the years -- each organizer does it a little
> differently, and that's fine.  I don't see anything closed or unfriendly
> in using an online system for submitting abstracts.  I'm not planning on
> giving a talk this year (alas, too overbooked to get around to writing
> anything up) -- but I definitely plan to attend and am looking forward
> to it.
>
>
>
> Catherine
>
>
>>>> Meredith Johnson <majohnson25 at WISC.EDU> 3/19/2014 11:52 AM >>>
> Hi again all,
>
>
>
> Hmm, that's strange. All three of the organizers tried it, and several
> people have successfully uploaded abstracts. I'm guessing Linguist List
> was just updating the website. If you have trouble, I would suggest
> trying it again a little later. If anyone has continual trouble, please
> let me know, and I'll contact Linguist List.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> Meredith
> On Mar 19, 2014, at 7:49 AM, Jimm Goodtracks <jgoodtracks at GMAIL.COM>
> wrote
>
>
>
>
> For your information, I was unable to connect with the link below on
> conference program -  http://linguistlist.org/confcustom/SCLC34
>
>
>
> From:Meredith Johnson
>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2014 1:01 AM
>
> To:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
>
> Subject: Re: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi all,
>
>
> A couple of quick responses to Jill's questions, which I am responding
> to on list in case others are interested.
>
>
>
> Dorm space: to the best of our knowledge, there is no available dorm
> space. The conference venue is also on the edge of campus, and all dorms
> would actually be further away than the hotel. Having the conference in
> an urban setting unfortunately has its drawbacks: we could either choose
> a convenient hotel to get a block of rooms in, or a somewhat cheaper one
> that would require a long bus ride for participants.
>
>
>
> As for going through linguist list: We certainly were not trying to be
> formal; there are just three organizers and we all would like access to
> all abstracts submitted. I have accepted abstracts that were e-mailed to
> me, and if anyone else would prefer to do that, I will happily accept
> them and pass them on to the other organizers. All other correspondence
> will be done "person-to-person."
>
>
>
> Of course, if there are any suggestions as to how we can maintain the
> "generously open and friendly tone of the conference", don't hesitate to
> e-mail me on or off-list. If we have done anything else to offend anyone
> while trying to organize this conference, drop me a line.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> Meredith
>
> On Mar 19, 2014, at 12:40 AM, "Greer, Jill" <Greer-J at MSSU.EDU> wrote
>
>
>
>
> Dear Meredith, Bryan, and Matea,
>
>
>
> A couple of questions/comments:  Is there no possibility of less
> expensive dorm space?  A shorter walk and/or less expense might make the
> conference more friendly to a larger number of folks.  Also,  it seems a
> little formal to be going through linguist list rather than directly to
> the organizer's emails,  regardless of links provided.  Yes,  I'm sorry
> to sound like a grumpy old Luddite,  but surely  linguists of all people
> ought to be cognizant of the meta-communicative message of relying on
> 3rd party providers for 'ease' , so to speak, rather than actual
> person-to-person correspondence?
>
>
>
> Forgive me for the complaints.  This meeting date is a bit early in the
> summer for my calendar,  and I'm not really sure I'm up to going to a
> Siouan conference without Bob just yet anyway.  No doubt everyone is
> still reeling under that weight, too.  Perhaps the proceedings could be
> shared with the list?  Rory was the only  one kind enough to actually
> share his paper from last summer's meeting.
>
>
>
> But for future collegiality with fellow Siouanists,  perhaps I'm not too
> far out of line to request that the generously open and friendly tone of
> the conference not be replaced with the rather frenzied pace of the
> "standard"  linguistics meeting.
>
>
>
> In the meantime,  thank you for the willingness to host,  and I hope
> that perhaps the beginning of some kind of Festschrift for Bob could
> begin to emerge from the group sorrow.
>
>
>
> Sincerely yours,
>
> Jill Greer
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mar 18, 2014, at 10:41 PM, Meredith Johnson <majohnson25 at WISC.EDU>
>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Dear all,
>
>
>
> We have a couple of updates about the upcoming 34th Siouan and Caddoan
> Languages Conference, to be held Friday, May 23 to Sunday, May 25 at the
> University of Wisconsin-Madison.
>
>
>
> The conference will be held at Memorial Union, which is on the
> University of Wisconsin campus in downtown Madison. We have reserved a
> block of rooms at the Hampton Inn, which is the closest hotel to the
> conference site (less than a 10 minute walk away). The special
> conference rate is $119/night for a double room from May 22-25. The rate
> is available until April 22, and you can access this rate from the
> following
>
link:http://hamptoninn.hilton.com/en/hp/groups/personalized/M/MSNBJHX-ALC-2014

> 0522/index.jhtml
>
>
>
> If you're on a tighter budget, we suggest finding a hotel on the west
> side of Madison and taking a bus to the conference. Bus schedules and
> Google transit planner are available here:
> http://www.cityofmadison.com/metro/ Please note that there are different
> schedules for the work week and weekend.
>
>
>
> Please see attached for a (very) tentative schedule. If you*d like to
> secure one of the spots on this schedule, remember to submit an abstract
> online athttp://linguistlist.org/confcustom/SCLC34 by this Sunday, March
> 23! :)
>
>
>
> Lastly, we hope to have registration available shortly! We are still
> waiting for confirmation on our conference funding. If it comes through
> (fingers crossed!), registration will be free, and there will be a
> subsidized conference dinner. We will let you know as soon as we do!
>
>
>
> We hope to have more info for you soon, but in the meantime, please feel
> free to e-mail with any questions. Also check our new
> websitehttps://sites.google.com/site/34sclc/accomodations for updates
> and additional information.
>
>
>
> All the best,
>
> Meredith Johnson
>
> Bryan Rosen
>
> Matea Schuck
>
> SCLC 34 Organizers
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> This email may contain identifiable personal information that is subject
> to protection under state and federal law. This information is intended
> for the use of the individual named above. If you are not the intended
> recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of
> the contents of this information is prohibited and may be punishable by
> law. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please
> notify us immediately by electronic mail (reply).
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________
Edge Hill University
Times Higher University of the Year - shortlisted 2007/8, 2010/11, 2011/12
www.edgehill.ac.uk<http://www.edgehill.ac.uk>
________________________________
This message is private and confidential. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender and remove it from your system. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Edge Hill or associated companies. Edge Hill University may monitor email traffic data and also the content of email for the purposes of security and business communications during staff absence.


From carudin1 at WSC.EDU  Thu Mar 20 13:54:53 2014
From: carudin1 at WSC.EDU (Catherine Rudin)
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 08:54:53 -0500
Subject: Antw: Re: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34
Message-ID: <THU.20.MAR.2014.085453.0500.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

I like both Anthony's and Johannes' festschrift suggestions.  Including
some of Bob's work is a fine idea; there are many such papers and it
would be a fitting tribute. We'd need permission, of course.  Basing the
festschrift around the old comparative Siouan project is also a great
idea; I would love to see that planned volume finally come to pass, or
at least a volume that included some of the papers intended for it.

If a festschrift is to become a reality there are a lot of practical
matters to address ... finding a publisher, setting up a system for
soliciting, accepting, and editing papers, etc.  It's probably a project
best accomplished by a small group of people rather than by whole-list
discussion, once it gets past about the stage we're at now.  May I
suggest that we pick 2 or 3 people for this job?  I'd be willing to be
one of them, though if other folks volunteer I'd also be happy to step
aside and let someone else do it.

Catherine

>>> Anthony Grant  03/20/14 7:41 AM >>>
Could I suggest that the festschrift contain some of Bob's inedita -
conference papers he wrote up but didn't publish?  He did one or two of
these on Quapaw, I believe, and there must be others.

Anthony
________________________________________
From: Siouan Linguistics  on behalf of Johannes Helmbrecht 
Sent: 20 March 2014 08:46
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
Subject: Antw: Re: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34

Dear Siouanists,

I strongly agree with Cathrin and Gill that we should honor Bob's work
by
continuing our research on Siouan languages and by producing a
festschrift. One
 idea in this direction could be that we put together the papers we had
produced for our Comparative Siouan Grammar project. I know that Bob
loved this
project although we never managed to compile a volume.

All the best
Johannes


--

Professor Dr. Johannes Helmbrecht
Lehrstuhl für Allgemeine und Vergleichende Sprachwissenschaft
Fakultät für Sprach-, Literatur- und Kulturwissenschaften
Universität Regensburg
Universitätsstrasse 31
D-93053 Regensburg

Tel. 0941/943-3388
Tel. 0941/943-3387 (Sekretariat)
Fax. 0941/943-2429

Website:
www-avs.uni-regensburg.de

E-mail:
johannes.helmbrecht at sprachlit.uni-regensburg.de




>>> Catherine Rudin  schrieb am 20.03.2014 um 01:51:
> Festschrift is a great idea.  Let's do it!
> Catherine
>
>>>> Rory Larson  03/19/14 3:18 PM >>>

I agree.  Thanks very much
> to Meredith, Bryan and Matea for all their work in organizing this
> conference.  I know Bob was really looking forward to attending it. 
And
> Jill, thankyou for the proposal that we do a Festschrift for Bob.  I
> think that*s an absolutely wonderful idea, and I hope you will be
active
> in shepherding it along.  :)
>
> Best,
> Rory
>
>
> From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu]On Behalf Of
> David Kaufman
> Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2014 2:36 PM
> To: SIOUAN at LISTSERV.UNL.EDU
> Subject: Re: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34
>
>
> I must echo Catherine's sentiments.  Although Bob's passing is a loss
to
> us all, he would have tried to be at the conference if he still could,
> and, in spirit, he will still be there.  The conference would be a
good
> opportunity for all of us to talk about memories of Bob and to perhaps
> plan a Festschrift in his honor as Jill proposed.
>
>
> As a former SCLC organizer, I also want to commend the work that the
> three organizers are doing.  It is not easy getting everything
organized
> and keeping everyone happy, so I can sympathize with the work they
have
> ahead of them.  Bob welcomed newcomers, including younger people, who
> will be the future of Siouan linguistics.  Meredith, Bryan, and Matea
> are young newcomers and have taken on a big responsibility in
organizing
> this year's conference.  Let's hope we have even more newcomers who
are
> as dedicated and committed to Siouan linguistics as they are!
>
>
>
> Things will get worked out.  Hope to see all of you in May!
>
>
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
> David Kaufman
>
> Linguistic Anthropology PhD candidate, University of Kansas
>
> Director, Kaw Nation Language Program
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 1:47 PM, Catherine Rudin 
> wrote:
> The link works fine for me.
>
>
>
> Jill, I certainly share your sense of loss, but it seems to me the
last
> thing Bob would have wanted is for folks to not attend the conference
> because he won't be there.  Let's all go honor his life by continuing
> the work he loved.
>
>
>
> Meredith, Bryan, and Matea THANK YOU for an outstanding job organizing
> so far -- I've been delighted to see timely information and reminders
> not only on the Siouan list but also on LinguistList.  The SCLC has
> varied widely over the years -- each organizer does it a little
> differently, and that's fine.  I don't see anything closed or
unfriendly
> in using an online system for submitting abstracts.  I'm not planning
on
> giving a talk this year (alas, too overbooked to get around to writing
> anything up) -- but I definitely plan to attend and am looking forward
> to it.
>
>
>
> Catherine
>
>
>>>> Meredith Johnson  3/19/2014 11:52 AM >>>
> Hi again all,
>
>
>
> Hmm, that's strange. All three of the organizers tried it, and several
> people have successfully uploaded abstracts. I'm guessing Linguist
List
> was just updating the website. If you have trouble, I would suggest
> trying it again a little later. If anyone has continual trouble,
please
> let me know, and I'll contact Linguist List.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> Meredith
> On Mar 19, 2014, at 7:49 AM, Jimm Goodtracks 
> wrote
>
>
>
>
> For your information, I was unable to connect with the link below on
> conference program -  http://linguistlist.org/confcustom/SCLC34
>
>
>
> From:Meredith Johnson
>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2014 1:01 AM
>
> To:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
>
> Subject: Re: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi all,
>
>
> A couple of quick responses to Jill's questions, which I am responding
> to on list in case others are interested.
>
>
>
> Dorm space: to the best of our knowledge, there is no available dorm
> space. The conference venue is also on the edge of campus, and all
dorms
> would actually be further away than the hotel. Having the conference
in
> an urban setting unfortunately has its drawbacks: we could either
choose
> a convenient hotel to get a block of rooms in, or a somewhat cheaper
one
> that would require a long bus ride for participants.
>
>
>
> As for going through linguist list: We certainly were not trying to be
> formal; there are just three organizers and we all would like access
to
> all abstracts submitted. I have accepted abstracts that were e-mailed
to
> me, and if anyone else would prefer to do that, I will happily accept
> them and pass them on to the other organizers. All other
correspondence
> will be done "person-to-person."
>
>
>
> Of course, if there are any suggestions as to how we can maintain the
> "generously open and friendly tone of the conference", don't hesitate
to
> e-mail me on or off-list. If we have done anything else to offend
anyone
> while trying to organize this conference, drop me a line.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> Meredith
>
> On Mar 19, 2014, at 12:40 AM, "Greer, Jill"  wrote
>
>
>
>
> Dear Meredith, Bryan, and Matea,
>
>
>
> A couple of questions/comments:  Is there no possibility of less
> expensive dorm space?  A shorter walk and/or less expense might make
the
> conference more friendly to a larger number of folks.  Also,  it seems
a
> little formal to be going through linguist list rather than directly
to
> the organizer's emails,  regardless of links provided.  Yes,  I'm
sorry
> to sound like a grumpy old Luddite,  but surely  linguists of all
people
> ought to be cognizant of the meta-communicative message of relying on
> 3rd party providers for 'ease' , so to speak, rather than actual
> person-to-person correspondence?
>
>
>
> Forgive me for the complaints.  This meeting date is a bit early in
the
> summer for my calendar,  and I'm not really sure I'm up to going to a
> Siouan conference without Bob just yet anyway.  No doubt everyone is
> still reeling under that weight, too.  Perhaps the proceedings could
be
> shared with the list?  Rory was the only  one kind enough to actually
> share his paper from last summer's meeting.
>
>
>
> But for future collegiality with fellow Siouanists,  perhaps I'm not
too
> far out of line to request that the generously open and friendly tone
of
> the conference not be replaced with the rather frenzied pace of the
> "standard"  linguistics meeting.
>
>
>
> In the meantime,  thank you for the willingness to host,  and I hope
> that perhaps the beginning of some kind of Festschrift for Bob could
> begin to emerge from the group sorrow.
>
>
>
> Sincerely yours,
>
> Jill Greer
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mar 18, 2014, at 10:41 PM, Meredith Johnson 
>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Dear all,
>
>
>
> We have a couple of updates about the upcoming 34th Siouan and Caddoan
> Languages Conference, to be held Friday, May 23 to Sunday, May 25 at
the
> University of Wisconsin-Madison.
>
>
>
> The conference will be held at Memorial Union, which is on the
> University of Wisconsin campus in downtown Madison. We have reserved a
> block of rooms at the Hampton Inn, which is the closest hotel to the
> conference site (less than a 10 minute walk away). The special
> conference rate is $119/night for a double room from May 22-25. The
rate
> is available until April 22, and you can access this rate from the
> following
>
link:http://hamptoninn.hilton.com/en/hp/groups/personalized/M/MSNBJHX-ALC-2014

> 0522/index.jhtml
>
>
>
> If you're on a tighter budget, we suggest finding a hotel on the west
> side of Madison and taking a bus to the conference. Bus schedules and
> Google transit planner are available here:
> http://www.cityofmadison.com/metro/ Please note that there are
different
> schedules for the work week and weekend.
>
>
>
> Please see attached for a (very) tentative schedule. If you*d like to
> secure one of the spots on this schedule, remember to submit an
abstract
> online athttp://linguistlist.org/confcustom/SCLC34 by this Sunday,
March
> 23! :)
>
>
>
> Lastly, we hope to have registration available shortly! We are still
> waiting for confirmation on our conference funding. If it comes
through
> (fingers crossed!), registration will be free, and there will be a
> subsidized conference dinner. We will let you know as soon as we do!
>
>
>
> We hope to have more info for you soon, but in the meantime, please
feel
> free to e-mail with any questions. Also check our new
> websitehttps://sites.google.com/site/34sclc/accomodations for updates
> and additional information.
>
>
>
> All the best,
>
> Meredith Johnson
>
> Bryan Rosen
>
> Matea Schuck
>
> SCLC 34 Organizers
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> This email may contain identifiable personal information that is
subject
> to protection under state and federal law. This information is
intended
> for the use of the individual named above. If you are not the intended
> recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use
of
> the contents of this information is prohibited and may be punishable
by
> law. If you have received this electronic transmission in error,
please
> notify us immediately by electronic mail (reply).
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________
Edge Hill University
Times Higher University of the Year - shortlisted 2007/8, 2010/11,
2011/12
www.edgehill.ac.uk
________________________________
This message is private and confidential. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender and remove it from your
system. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author
and do not necessarily represent those of Edge Hill or associated
companies. Edge Hill University may monitor email traffic data and also
the content of email for the purposes of security and business
communications during staff absence.

-------------- next part --------------
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From jgoodtracks at GMAIL.COM  Thu Mar 20 14:35:15 2014
From: jgoodtracks at GMAIL.COM (Jimm Goodtracks)
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 09:35:15 -0500
Subject: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34
In-Reply-To: <532AACDD0200008E000AE993@hermes.wsc.edu>
Message-ID: <THU.20.MAR.2014.093515.0500.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

For printing, may I suggest Lulu, a printing service on demand.  They print the book when ordered.

Lulu is an advocate for global consumer privacy rights, protection and security.   Copyright © 2002-2014 Lulu Press, Inc.  All Rights Reserved. 

Worth considering.

From: Catherine Rudin 
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 8:54 AM
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu 
Subject: Re: Antw: Re: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34

I like both Anthony's and Johannes' festschrift suggestions.  Including some of Bob's work is a fine idea; there are many such papers and it would be a fitting tribute. We'd need permission, of course.  Basing the festschrift around the old comparative Siouan project is also a great idea; I would love to see that planned volume finally come to pass, or at least a volume that included some of the papers intended for it.

If a festschrift is to become a reality there are a lot of practical matters to address ... finding a publisher, setting up a system for soliciting, accepting, and editing papers, etc.  It's probably a project best accomplished by a small group of people rather than by whole-list discussion, once it gets past about the stage we're at now.  May I suggest that we pick 2 or 3 people for this job?  I'd be willing to be one of them, though if other folks volunteer I'd also be happy to step aside and let someone else do it.

Catherine

>>> Anthony Grant <Granta at EDGEHILL.AC.UK> 03/20/14 7:41 AM >>>
Could I suggest that the festschrift contain some of Bob's inedita - conference papers he wrote up but didn't publish? He did one or two of these on Quapaw, I believe, and there must be others.

Anthony
________________________________________
From: Siouan Linguistics <SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu> on behalf of Johannes Helmbrecht <Johannes.Helmbrecht at SPRACHLIT.UNI-REGENSBURG.DE>
Sent: 20 March 2014 08:46
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
Subject: Antw: Re: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34

Dear Siouanists,

I strongly agree with Cathrin and Gill that we should honor Bob's work by
continuing our research on Siouan languages and by producing a festschrift. One
idea in this direction could be that we put together the papers we had
produced for our Comparative Siouan Grammar project. I know that Bob loved this
project although we never managed to compile a volume.

All the best
Johannes


--

Professor Dr. Johannes Helmbrecht
Lehrstuhl für Allgemeine und Vergleichende Sprachwissenschaft
Fakultät für Sprach-, Literatur- und Kulturwissenschaften
Universität Regensburg
Universitätsstrasse 31
D-93053 Regensburg

Tel. 0941/943-3388
Tel. 0941/943-3387 (Sekretariat)
Fax. 0941/943-2429

Website:
www-avs.uni-regensburg.de

E-mail:
johannes.helmbrecht at sprachlit.uni-regensburg.de




>>> Catherine Rudin <carudin1 at WSC.EDU> schrieb am 20.03.2014 um 01:51:
> Festschrift is a great idea. Let's do it!
> Catherine
>
>>>> Rory Larson 03/19/14 3:18 PM >>>

I agree. Thanks very much
> to Meredith, Bryan and Matea for all their work in organizing this
> conference. I know Bob was really looking forward to attending it. And
> Jill, thankyou for the proposal that we do a Festschrift for Bob. I
> think that*s an absolutely wonderful idea, and I hope you will be active
> in shepherding it along. :)
>
> Best,
> Rory
>
>
> From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu]On Behalf Of
> David Kaufman
> Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2014 2:36 PM
> To: SIOUAN at LISTSERV.UNL.EDU
> Subject: Re: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34
>
>
> I must echo Catherine's sentiments. Although Bob's passing is a loss to
> us all, he would have tried to be at the conference if he still could,
> and, in spirit, he will still be there. The conference would be a good
> opportunity for all of us to talk about memories of Bob and to perhaps
> plan a Festschrift in his honor as Jill proposed.
>
>
> As a former SCLC organizer, I also want to commend the work that the
> three organizers are doing. It is not easy getting everything organized
> and keeping everyone happy, so I can sympathize with the work they have
> ahead of them. Bob welcomed newcomers, including younger people, who
> will be the future of Siouan linguistics. Meredith, Bryan, and Matea
> are young newcomers and have taken on a big responsibility in organizing
> this year's conference. Let's hope we have even more newcomers who are
> as dedicated and committed to Siouan linguistics as they are!
>
>
>
> Things will get worked out. Hope to see all of you in May!
>
>
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
> David Kaufman
>
> Linguistic Anthropology PhD candidate, University of Kansas
>
> Director, Kaw Nation Language Program
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 1:47 PM, Catherine Rudin <CaRudin1 at wsc.edu>
> wrote:
> The link works fine for me.
>
>
>
> Jill, I certainly share your sense of loss, but it seems to me the last
> thing Bob would have wanted is for folks to not attend the conference
> because he won't be there. Let's all go honor his life by continuing
> the work he loved.
>
>
>
> Meredith, Bryan, and Matea THANK YOU for an outstanding job organizing
> so far -- I've been delighted to see timely information and reminders
> not only on the Siouan list but also on LinguistList. The SCLC has
> varied widely over the years -- each organizer does it a little
> differently, and that's fine. I don't see anything closed or unfriendly
> in using an online system for submitting abstracts. I'm not planning on
> giving a talk this year (alas, too overbooked to get around to writing
> anything up) -- but I definitely plan to attend and am looking forward
> to it.
>
>
>
> Catherine
>
>
>>>> Meredith Johnson <majohnson25 at WISC.EDU> 3/19/2014 11:52 AM >>>
> Hi again all,
>
>
>
> Hmm, that's strange. All three of the organizers tried it, and several
> people have successfully uploaded abstracts. I'm guessing Linguist List
> was just updating the website. If you have trouble, I would suggest
> trying it again a little later. If anyone has continual trouble, please
> let me know, and I'll contact Linguist List.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> Meredith
> On Mar 19, 2014, at 7:49 AM, Jimm Goodtracks <jgoodtracks at GMAIL.COM>
> wrote
>
>
>
>
> For your information, I was unable to connect with the link below on
> conference program - http://linguistlist.org/confcustom/SCLC34
>
>
>
> From:Meredith Johnson
>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2014 1:01 AM
>
> To:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
>
> Subject: Re: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi all,
>
>
> A couple of quick responses to Jill's questions, which I am responding
> to on list in case others are interested.
>
>
>
> Dorm space: to the best of our knowledge, there is no available dorm
> space. The conference venue is also on the edge of campus, and all dorms
> would actually be further away than the hotel. Having the conference in
> an urban setting unfortunately has its drawbacks: we could either choose
> a convenient hotel to get a block of rooms in, or a somewhat cheaper one
> that would require a long bus ride for participants.
>
>
>
> As for going through linguist list: We certainly were not trying to be
> formal; there are just three organizers and we all would like access to
> all abstracts submitted. I have accepted abstracts that were e-mailed to
> me, and if anyone else would prefer to do that, I will happily accept
> them and pass them on to the other organizers. All other correspondence
> will be done "person-to-person."
>
>
>
> Of course, if there are any suggestions as to how we can maintain the
> "generously open and friendly tone of the conference", don't hesitate to
> e-mail me on or off-list. If we have done anything else to offend anyone
> while trying to organize this conference, drop me a line.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> Meredith
>
> On Mar 19, 2014, at 12:40 AM, "Greer, Jill" <Greer-J at MSSU.EDU> wrote
>
>
>
>
> Dear Meredith, Bryan, and Matea,
>
>
>
> A couple of questions/comments: Is there no possibility of less
> expensive dorm space? A shorter walk and/or less expense might make the
> conference more friendly to a larger number of folks. Also, it seems a
> little formal to be going through linguist list rather than directly to
> the organizer's emails, regardless of links provided. Yes, I'm sorry
> to sound like a grumpy old Luddite, but surely linguists of all people
> ought to be cognizant of the meta-communicative message of relying on
> 3rd party providers for 'ease' , so to speak, rather than actual
> person-to-person correspondence?
>
>
>
> Forgive me for the complaints. This meeting date is a bit early in the
> summer for my calendar, and I'm not really sure I'm up to going to a
> Siouan conference without Bob just yet anyway. No doubt everyone is
> still reeling under that weight, too. Perhaps the proceedings could be
> shared with the list? Rory was the only one kind enough to actually
> share his paper from last summer's meeting.
>
>
>
> But for future collegiality with fellow Siouanists, perhaps I'm not too
> far out of line to request that the generously open and friendly tone of
> the conference not be replaced with the rather frenzied pace of the
> "standard" linguistics meeting.
>
>
>
> In the meantime, thank you for the willingness to host, and I hope
> that perhaps the beginning of some kind of Festschrift for Bob could
> begin to emerge from the group sorrow.
>
>
>
> Sincerely yours,
>
> Jill Greer
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mar 18, 2014, at 10:41 PM, Meredith Johnson <majohnson25 at WISC.EDU>
>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Dear all,
>
>
>
> We have a couple of updates about the upcoming 34th Siouan and Caddoan
> Languages Conference, to be held Friday, May 23 to Sunday, May 25 at the
> University of Wisconsin-Madison.
>
>
>
> The conference will be held at Memorial Union, which is on the
> University of Wisconsin campus in downtown Madison. We have reserved a
> block of rooms at the Hampton Inn, which is the closest hotel to the
> conference site (less than a 10 minute walk away). The special
> conference rate is $119/night for a double room from May 22-25. The rate
> is available until April 22, and you can access this rate from the
> following
>
link:http://hamptoninn.hilton.com/en/hp/groups/personalized/M/MSNBJHX-ALC-2014

> 0522/index.jhtml
>
>
>
> If you're on a tighter budget, we suggest finding a hotel on the west
> side of Madison and taking a bus to the conference. Bus schedules and
> Google transit planner are available here:
> http://www.cityofmadison.com/metro/ Please note that there are different
> schedules for the work week and weekend.
>
>
>
> Please see attached for a (very) tentative schedule. If you*d like to
> secure one of the spots on this schedule, remember to submit an abstract
> online athttp://linguistlist.org/confcustom/SCLC34 by this Sunday, March
> 23! :)
>
>
>
> Lastly, we hope to have registration available shortly! We are still
> waiting for confirmation on our conference funding. If it comes through
> (fingers crossed!), registration will be free, and there will be a
> subsidized conference dinner. We will let you know as soon as we do!
>
>
>
> We hope to have more info for you soon, but in the meantime, please feel
> free to e-mail with any questions. Also check our new
> websitehttps://sites.google.com/site/34sclc/accomodations for updates
> and additional information.
>
>
>
> All the best,
>
> Meredith Johnson
>
> Bryan Rosen
>
> Matea Schuck
>
> SCLC 34 Organizers
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> This email may contain identifiable personal information that is subject
> to protection under state and federal law. This information is intended
> for the use of the individual named above. If you are not the intended
> recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of
> the contents of this information is prohibited and may be punishable by
> law. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please
> notify us immediately by electronic mail (reply).
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________
Edge Hill University
Times Higher University of the Year - shortlisted 2007/8, 2010/11, 2011/12
www.edgehill.ac.uk<http://www.edgehill.ac.uk>
________________________________
This message is private and confidential. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender and remove it from your system. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Edge Hill or associated companies. Edge Hill University may monitor email traffic data and also the content of email for the purposes of security and business communications during staff absence.
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From linguista at GMAIL.COM  Sun Mar 23 23:02:39 2014
From: linguista at GMAIL.COM (Bryan James Gordon)
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2014 16:02:39 -0700
Subject: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34
In-Reply-To: <F9E537F292BB4050B2AEDDFD4983775D@AsusLaptop>
Message-ID: <SUN.23.MAR.2014.160239.0700.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

I am shooting to get my comps done by just before the conference; if I'm
successful I'll be happy to volunteer to help with organizing a
festschrift. Looking forward to seeing y'all, and very sorry I won't be
getting to see Bob.

Bryan


2014-03-20 7:35 GMT-07:00 Jimm Goodtracks <jgoodtracks at gmail.com>:

>   For printing, may I suggest Lulu, a printing service on demand.  They
> print the book when ordered.
>
> Lulu is an advocate for global consumer privacy rights, protection and
> security.   Copyright <http://www.lulu.com/help/copyright_notice> ©
> 2002-2014 Lulu Press, Inc.  All Rights Reserved.
>
> Worth considering.
>
>  *From:* Catherine Rudin <carudin1 at WSC.EDU>
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 20, 2014 8:54 AM
> *To:* SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
> *Subject:* Re: Antw: Re: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34
>
> I like both Anthony's and Johannes' festschrift suggestions.  Including
> some of Bob's work is a fine idea; there are many such papers and it would
> be a fitting tribute. We'd need permission, of course.  Basing the
> festschrift around the old comparative Siouan project is also a great idea;
> I would love to see that planned volume finally come to pass, or at least a
> volume that included some of the papers intended for it.
>
> If a festschrift is to become a reality there are a lot of practical
> matters to address ... finding a publisher, setting up a system for
> soliciting, accepting, and editing papers, etc.  It's probably a project
> best accomplished by a small group of people rather than by whole-list
> discussion, once it gets past about the stage we're at now.  May I suggest
> that we pick 2 or 3 people for this job?  I'd be willing to be one of them,
> though if other folks volunteer I'd also be happy to step aside and let
> someone else do it.
>
> Catherine
>
> >>> Anthony Grant <Granta at EDGEHILL.AC.UK> 03/20/14 7:41 AM >>>
> Could I suggest that the festschrift contain some of Bob's inedita -
> conference papers he wrote up but didn't publish? He did one or two of
> these on Quapaw, I believe, and there must be others.
>
> Anthony
> ________________________________________
> From: Siouan Linguistics <SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu> on behalf of Johannes
> Helmbrecht <Johannes.Helmbrecht at SPRACHLIT.UNI-REGENSBURG.DE>
> Sent: 20 March 2014 08:46
> To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
> Subject: Antw: Re: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34
>
> Dear Siouanists,
>
> I strongly agree with Cathrin and Gill that we should honor Bob's work by
> continuing our research on Siouan languages and by producing a
> festschrift. One
> idea in this direction could be that we put together the papers we had
> produced for our Comparative Siouan Grammar project. I know that Bob loved
> this
> project although we never managed to compile a volume.
>
> All the best
> Johannes
>
>
> --
>
> Professor Dr. Johannes Helmbrecht
> Lehrstuhl für Allgemeine und Vergleichende Sprachwissenschaft
> Fakultät für Sprach-, Literatur- und Kulturwissenschaften
> Universität Regensburg
> Universitätsstrasse 31
> D-93053 Regensburg
>
> Tel. 0941/943-3388
> Tel. 0941/943-3387 (Sekretariat)
> Fax. 0941/943-2429
>
> Website:
> www-avs.uni-regensburg.de
>
> E-mail:
> johannes.helmbrecht at sprachlit.uni-regensburg.de
>
>
>
>
> >>> Catherine Rudin <carudin1 at WSC.EDU> schrieb am 20.03.2014 um 01:51:
> > Festschrift is a great idea. Let's do it!
> > Catherine
> >
> >>>> Rory Larson 03/19/14 3:18 PM >>>
>
> I agree. Thanks very much
> > to Meredith, Bryan and Matea for all their work in organizing this
> > conference. I know Bob was really looking forward to attending it. And
> > Jill, thankyou for the proposal that we do a Festschrift for Bob. I
> > think that*s an absolutely wonderful idea, and I hope you will be active
> > in shepherding it along. :)
> >
> > Best,
> > Rory
> >
> >
> > From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu]On Behalf Of
> > David Kaufman
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2014 2:36 PM
> > To: SIOUAN at LISTSERV.UNL.EDU
> > Subject: Re: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34
> >
> >
> > I must echo Catherine's sentiments. Although Bob's passing is a loss to
> > us all, he would have tried to be at the conference if he still could,
> > and, in spirit, he will still be there. The conference would be a good
> > opportunity for all of us to talk about memories of Bob and to perhaps
> > plan a Festschrift in his honor as Jill proposed.
> >
> >
> > As a former SCLC organizer, I also want to commend the work that the
> > three organizers are doing. It is not easy getting everything organized
> > and keeping everyone happy, so I can sympathize with the work they have
> > ahead of them. Bob welcomed newcomers, including younger people, who
> > will be the future of Siouan linguistics. Meredith, Bryan, and Matea
> > are young newcomers and have taken on a big responsibility in organizing
> > this year's conference. Let's hope we have even more newcomers who are
> > as dedicated and committed to Siouan linguistics as they are!
> >
> >
> >
> > Things will get worked out. Hope to see all of you in May!
> >
> >
> >
> > Dave
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > David Kaufman
> >
> > Linguistic Anthropology PhD candidate, University of Kansas
> >
> > Director, Kaw Nation Language Program
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 1:47 PM, Catherine Rudin <CaRudin1 at wsc.edu>
> > wrote:
> > The link works fine for me.
> >
> >
> >
> > Jill, I certainly share your sense of loss, but it seems to me the last
> > thing Bob would have wanted is for folks to not attend the conference
> > because he won't be there. Let's all go honor his life by continuing
> > the work he loved.
> >
> >
> >
> > Meredith, Bryan, and Matea THANK YOU for an outstanding job organizing
> > so far -- I've been delighted to see timely information and reminders
> > not only on the Siouan list but also on LinguistList. The SCLC has
> > varied widely over the years -- each organizer does it a little
> > differently, and that's fine. I don't see anything closed or unfriendly
> > in using an online system for submitting abstracts. I'm not planning on
> > giving a talk this year (alas, too overbooked to get around to writing
> > anything up) -- but I definitely plan to attend and am looking forward
> > to it.
> >
> >
> >
> > Catherine
> >
> >
> >>>> Meredith Johnson <majohnson25 at WISC.EDU> 3/19/2014 11:52 AM >>>
> > Hi again all,
> >
> >
> >
> > Hmm, that's strange. All three of the organizers tried it, and several
> > people have successfully uploaded abstracts. I'm guessing Linguist List
> > was just updating the website. If you have trouble, I would suggest
> > trying it again a little later. If anyone has continual trouble, please
> > let me know, and I'll contact Linguist List.
> >
> >
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Meredith
> > On Mar 19, 2014, at 7:49 AM, Jimm Goodtracks <jgoodtracks at GMAIL.COM>
> > wrote
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > For your information, I was unable to connect with the link below on
> > conference program - http://linguistlist.org/confcustom/SCLC34
> >
> >
> >
> > From:Meredith Johnson
> >
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2014 1:01 AM
> >
> > To:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
> >
> > Subject: Re: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> >
> > A couple of quick responses to Jill's questions, which I am responding
> > to on list in case others are interested.
> >
> >
> >
> > Dorm space: to the best of our knowledge, there is no available dorm
> > space. The conference venue is also on the edge of campus, and all dorms
> > would actually be further away than the hotel. Having the conference in
> > an urban setting unfortunately has its drawbacks: we could either choose
> > a convenient hotel to get a block of rooms in, or a somewhat cheaper one
> > that would require a long bus ride for participants.
> >
> >
> >
> > As for going through linguist list: We certainly were not trying to be
> > formal; there are just three organizers and we all would like access to
> > all abstracts submitted. I have accepted abstracts that were e-mailed to
> > me, and if anyone else would prefer to do that, I will happily accept
> > them and pass them on to the other organizers. All other correspondence
> > will be done "person-to-person."
> >
> >
> >
> > Of course, if there are any suggestions as to how we can maintain the
> > "generously open and friendly tone of the conference", don't hesitate to
> > e-mail me on or off-list. If we have done anything else to offend anyone
> > while trying to organize this conference, drop me a line.
> >
> >
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Meredith
> >
> > On Mar 19, 2014, at 12:40 AM, "Greer, Jill" <Greer-J at MSSU.EDU> wrote
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear Meredith, Bryan, and Matea,
> >
> >
> >
> > A couple of questions/comments: Is there no possibility of less
> > expensive dorm space? A shorter walk and/or less expense might make the
> > conference more friendly to a larger number of folks. Also, it seems a
> > little formal to be going through linguist list rather than directly to
> > the organizer's emails, regardless of links provided. Yes, I'm sorry
> > to sound like a grumpy old Luddite, but surely linguists of all people
> > ought to be cognizant of the meta-communicative message of relying on
> > 3rd party providers for 'ease' , so to speak, rather than actual
> > person-to-person correspondence?
> >
> >
> >
> > Forgive me for the complaints. This meeting date is a bit early in the
> > summer for my calendar, and I'm not really sure I'm up to going to a
> > Siouan conference without Bob just yet anyway. No doubt everyone is
> > still reeling under that weight, too. Perhaps the proceedings could be
> > shared with the list? Rory was the only one kind enough to actually
> > share his paper from last summer's meeting.
> >
> >
> >
> > But for future collegiality with fellow Siouanists, perhaps I'm not too
> > far out of line to request that the generously open and friendly tone of
> > the conference not be replaced with the rather frenzied pace of the
> > "standard" linguistics meeting.
> >
> >
> >
> > In the meantime, thank you for the willingness to host, and I hope
> > that perhaps the beginning of some kind of Festschrift for Bob could
> > begin to emerge from the group sorrow.
> >
> >
> >
> > Sincerely yours,
> >
> > Jill Greer
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mar 18, 2014, at 10:41 PM, Meredith Johnson <majohnson25 at WISC.EDU>
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear all,
> >
> >
> >
> > We have a couple of updates about the upcoming 34th Siouan and Caddoan
> > Languages Conference, to be held Friday, May 23 to Sunday, May 25 at the
> > University of Wisconsin-Madison.
> >
> >
> >
> > The conference will be held at Memorial Union, which is on the
> > University of Wisconsin campus in downtown Madison. We have reserved a
> > block of rooms at the Hampton Inn, which is the closest hotel to the
> > conference site (less than a 10 minute walk away). The special
> > conference rate is $119/night for a double room from May 22-25. The rate
> > is available until April 22, and you can access this rate from the
> > following
> >
> link:
> http://hamptoninn.hilton.com/en/hp/groups/personalized/M/MSNBJHX-ALC-2014
>
> > 0522/index.jhtml
> >
> >
> >
> > If you're on a tighter budget, we suggest finding a hotel on the west
> > side of Madison and taking a bus to the conference. Bus schedules and
> > Google transit planner are available here:
> > http://www.cityofmadison.com/metro/ Please note that there are different
> > schedules for the work week and weekend.
> >
> >
> >
> > Please see attached for a (very) tentative schedule. If you*d like to
> > secure one of the spots on this schedule, remember to submit an abstract
> > online athttp://linguistlist.org/confcustom/SCLC34 by this Sunday, March
> > 23! :)
> >
> >
> >
> > Lastly, we hope to have registration available shortly! We are still
> > waiting for confirmation on our conference funding. If it comes through
> > (fingers crossed!), registration will be free, and there will be a
> > subsidized conference dinner. We will let you know as soon as we do!
> >
> >
> >
> > We hope to have more info for you soon, but in the meantime, please feel
> > free to e-mail with any questions. Also check our new
> > websitehttps://sites.google.com/site/34sclc/accomodations for updates
> > and additional information.
> >
> >
> >
> > All the best,
> >
> > Meredith Johnson
> >
> > Bryan Rosen
> >
> > Matea Schuck
> >
> > SCLC 34 Organizers
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > This email may contain identifiable personal information that is subject
> > to protection under state and federal law. This information is intended
> > for the use of the individual named above. If you are not the intended
> > recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of
> > the contents of this information is prohibited and may be punishable by
> > law. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please
> > notify us immediately by electronic mail (reply).
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ________________________________
> Edge Hill University
> Times Higher University of the Year - shortlisted 2007/8, 2010/11, 2011/12
> www.edgehill.ac.uk<http://www.edgehill.ac.uk>
> ________________________________
> This message is private and confidential. If you have received this
> message in error, please notify the sender and remove it from your system.
> Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not
> necessarily represent those of Edge Hill or associated companies. Edge Hill
> University may monitor email traffic data and also the content of email for
> the purposes of security and business communications during staff absence.
>



-- 
***********************************************************
Bryan James Gordon, MA
Joint PhD Program in Linguistics and Anthropology
University of Arizona
***********************************************************
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From majohnson25 at WISC.EDU  Mon Mar 24 17:00:15 2014
From: majohnson25 at WISC.EDU (Meredith Johnson)
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2014 12:00:15 -0500
Subject: SCLC 34 abstract submission extended and registration open!
Message-ID: <MON.24.MAR.2014.120015.0500.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

Dear all,

This is just to inform you of a few updates on plans for this year's Siouan and Caddoan Languages Conference.  A few important points points:

*Deadline for abstract submission has been extended to Sunday, March 30 at 11:59 CST .  You may submit your abstract at http://linguistlist.org/confcustom/SCLC34.  If you are experiencing problems with the online submission website, you may email the abstract directly to us at majohnson25 at wisc.edu.

*Registration information is now up on the conference website.  You may also access the registration site directly by clicking here.  Registration is free, but please remember to register so that we know how many attendees to plan for.  We want there to be enough chairs, coffee and snacks for all!

As always, if you have any questions, please feel free to ask any of the organizers.

All the best,
Meredith
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From sky at OMTRIBE.ORG  Fri Mar 28 18:06:36 2014
From: sky at OMTRIBE.ORG (Campbell, Sky)
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 13:06:36 -0500
Subject: Number 'nine' in Chiwere.
In-Reply-To: <72663936A7BBD841B5FB12A49C95E436A37EF95DE1@Server6-EX.omtribe.net>
Message-ID: <FRI.28.MAR.2014.130636.0500.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

Looking for something else, I came across this information on the number nine.  It was mentioned before that the Siouan languages may have borrowed the term “sanke” from the Algonquian languages (or vice versa).  I found this among Maximilian’s Osage terms:


Nine, grä̇bena – tscheh – uïningkä̇
(the whole run together); i. e.,
ten less one; they also say,
schangká


That got me to thinking about two things.  First, this looks to me like the “grä̇bena – tscheh – uïningkä̇” was the original term for nine and that “shangká” is the interloper.  It makes sense to me that the first version would be the original since it is an actual translation for nine in that language.

Maximilian’s entry for “one” is ”uïnchtschä” and you can see a portion of that in the “tscheh” in the above term.

Ok, that was more of a “hey look at this, you may find it interesting” tidbit of information.  Here is the second thought that struck me.  It is the “uïningkä̇” portion of the term which looks related to the Otoe-Missouria “ninge” which is along the lines of no or none and has even been translated as “have none.”  That definitely fits with Maximilian’s mention of “less one.”  Then that got me to thinking again about the Otoe-Missouria “ninge” which I’ve seen (and heard) as also being pronounced “ninye.”  And then that got me to thinking about the term for nine that was given to me by a tribal member which was “nanye” and now I am wondering if that is a possible variant of ”ninye/ninge” and could be a potential long-lost relic of the original Otoe-Missouria term for nine which could very well have been something along the lines of “ten less one” as well before “sanke” moved in.

Of course I am basing this on me turning my head to the side while looking at it and banking a bit on the similarities between Otoe-Missouria and Osage but this still has drawn my attention and I wanted to get some feedback from you guys to see what you think.

Thoughts?

Sky Campbell, B. A.
Language Director
Otoe-Missouria Tribe
580-723-4466 ext. 111
sky at omtribe.org

From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] On Behalf Of Campbell, Sky
Sent: Friday, December 06, 2013 9:47 AM
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
Subject: Re: Number 'nine' in Chiwere.

I wondered if there was a glottal stop in there somewhere.  I see a “k” in Hamilton and Irvin’s books when there would often be a glottal stop.  For example, their list of catechisms which they titled “We-wv-hæ-kju” (Wiwąxesų or Wiwąxe’sų (“(general) questions”)).

What I also find interesting is that Hamilton and Irvin’s publication five years later (1848) (An Ioway Grammar) doesn’t have the “k” with the word for “nine.”

Sky Campbell, B. A.
Language Director
Otoe-Missouria Tribe
580-723-4466 ext. 111
sky at omtribe.org<mailto:sky at omtribe.org>

From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] On Behalf Of Rankin, Robert L.
Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2013 4:40 PM
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu<mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu>
Subject: Re: Number 'nine' in Chiwere.

Sky,

Yes, the initial k- seems to be part of the original term, probably from *ki-.  Down below your comments I have copied the Comparative Dictionary entry for 'nine'.  As you'll see, several of the languages show traces of the ki- or k-.  My Chiwere recordings showed a glottal stop as residue of the k-.  It's interesting that you found citations of the word with the full k-.

Thanks.

Bob

> Ek jdfk (ikshanke) – Wdtwhtl Wdwdklha Tva Eva Wdhonetl (1834) by Merrill

> Merrill’s form follows the ordinal number pattern (IE “ninth” rather than “nine”) but the “k” is still present which is what has me curious.  To date, all other sources I’ve come across only have “sanke/shanke” (or something along those lines) with no “k”.  It has been mentioned here that “sanke” was borrowed from Algonquian.  Does the inclusion of “k” also fit with other Algonquian “nines”?
Thoughts?


GLOSS[ nine



GRAMCAT[ N

SEMCAT[



OTHREC[ {*kšą́kha}  {GHM58}



PMV[ *kšą́hka ¦ (?)



CH[ ʔšą́khe ‘nine’ rlr

CH[ θą́khe ‘nine’ rtc



PDH[ *šą́hka

OP[ šą́kka ¦ nine ¦ rlr

OP[ šǫ́kka ¦ nine ¦ rtc

KS[ šą́kka ¦ nine ¦ rlr

OS[ šą́hka ¦ nine, archaic, card game ¦ rlr

QU[ šąkka ¦ nine ¦ rlr



PSE[ *kišą́•hka ¦ (?)



BI[ †čkané “tckanĕ´” ‘nine’ DS:265 (?)

OF[ †kíštəška “kî´shtAshga” ‘nine’ {JRS09:485}

OF[ “kĭ´ctạcga” ‘nine’ DS:325b



TU[ †kisą́•hkai “tça (N), sā, sāñ, ksañk, ksāhkai, kasankai, ksākai” ‘nine’ HH

TU[ ¦ ksäⁿhk‘ ¦ ‘nine’ Hw.

TU[  ¦ sęk‘ ¦ ‘nine’ Sapir

TU[  ¦ kseⁿk ¦ ‘nine’ Fracht.

TU[ ¦ kiséⁿg, kisén ¦ two ¦ Fracht.



COM[ The recorded CH forms imply different underlying sibilants. PSI *š

often does become [s], but only primary PSI *s > θ}, {i.e.}, CH {š}

and {θ} never vary or alternate regularly. But note also the irregular TU

{s} where {č} is expected. BI {tckanĕ´} {DS:265a} is probably

borrowed from Choctaw-Chickasaw {čakkâ•li} {nine}; {n} is the usual

BI replacement for Western Muskogean {l} This W. Muskogean term lacks

Creek, Hitchiti cognates however, and may be from the same ultimate source

as Siouan {*kišą́•hka} OF seems to show the intrusive {t} that appears

following sibilants in {black}, {q.v.} OF {ạ} often represents

denasalized {*ą}. {Cf.} also Powhatan {*ke•ka•ta•s} {nine}

{FS 1975:309} as well as other, well known Algonquian look-alikes such as

Ojibwa {ša•nk-} Fox {ša•ka}, Shawnee {caakathzwi}, Potawatomi

{šak} {nine} {FS 1975:311, Rhodes, personal communication}. The

distribution of this set (only the more southerly languages represented), the

sibilant, and other phonological irregularities in CH, OF and TU, coupled

with the presence of similar terms in both Algonquian and Muskogean

languages lead us to conclude that this is a loanword. Direction(s) of

borrowing and/or source of the term is unknown.



  ­­
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From aigotm at YAHOO.COM  Fri Mar 28 21:41:35 2014
From: aigotm at YAHOO.COM (Emilia Aigotti)
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 14:41:35 -0700
Subject: Number 'nine' in Chiwere.
In-Reply-To: <72663936A7BBD841B5FB12A49C95E436C33F81E1CF@Server6-EX.omtribe.net>
Message-ID: <FRI.28.MAR.2014.144135.0700.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

Did you see this entry in the online Chiwere dictionary? It gives some similarities to other Siouan languages. Not sure if this is helpful. Searching my other documents...

šánke; ^sánke (GM); šáŋke (DOR) n. nine. [W. shaatgówi; OmP.
shanka; Os. shanka; gdhébdhantsewindhinge; L/D. shakówin; H. sháhpuw;
M. kú:pa; T. sa:kom; Of. fáckumi]. 


Emilia Garcia

________________________________
 From: "Campbell, Sky" <sky at OMTRIBE.ORG>
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu 
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2014 1:06 PM
Subject: Re: Number 'nine' in Chiwere.
 


Looking for something else, I came across this information on the number nine.  It was mentioned before that the Siouan languages may have borrowed the term “sanke” from the Algonquian languages (or vice versa).  I found this among Maximilian’s Osage terms:
 
 
Nine, grä̇bena – tscheh – uïningkä̇
(the whole run together); i. e.,
ten less one; they also say,
schangká
 
 
That got me to thinking about two things.  First, this looks to me like the “grä̇bena – tscheh – uïningkä̇” was the original term for nine and that “shangká” is the interloper.  It makes sense to me that the first version would be the original since it is an actual translation for nine in that language.
 
Maximilian’s entry for “one” is ”uïnchtschä” and you can see a portion of that in the “tscheh” in the above term.
 
Ok, that was more of a “hey look at this, you may find it interesting” tidbit of information.  Here is the second thought that struck me.  It is the “uïningkä̇” portion of the term which looks related to the Otoe-Missouria “ninge” which is along the lines of no or none and has even been translated as “have none.”  That definitely fits with Maximilian’s mention of “less one.”  Then that got me to thinking again about the Otoe-Missouria “ninge” which I’ve seen (and heard) as also being pronounced “ninye.”  And then that got me to thinking about the term for nine that was given to me by a tribal member which was “nanye” and now I am wondering if that is a possible variant of ”ninye/ninge” and could be a potential long-lost relic of the original Otoe-Missouria term for nine which could very well have been something along the lines of “ten less one” as well before “sanke” moved in.
 
Of course I am basing this on me turning my head to the side while looking at it and banking a bit on the similarities between Otoe-Missouria and Osage but this still has drawn my attention and I wanted to get some feedback from you guys to see what you think.
 
Thoughts?
 
Sky Campbell, B. A.
Language Director
Otoe-Missouria Tribe
580-723-4466 ext. 111
sky at omtribe.org
 
From:Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] On Behalf Of Campbell, Sky
Sent: Friday, December 06, 2013 9:47 AM
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
Subject: Re: Number 'nine' in Chiwere.
 
I wondered if there was a glottal stop in there somewhere.  I see a “k” in Hamilton and Irvin’s books when there would often be a glottal stop.  For example, their list of catechisms which they titled “We-wv-hæ-kju” (Wiwąxesų or Wiwąxe’sų (“(general) questions”)).
 
What I also find interesting is that Hamilton and Irvin’s publication five years later (1848) (An Ioway Grammar) doesn’t have the “k” with the word for “nine.”
 
Sky Campbell, B. A.
Language Director
Otoe-Missouria Tribe
580-723-4466 ext. 111
sky at omtribe.org
 
From:Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] On Behalf Of Rankin, Robert L.
Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2013 4:40 PM
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
Subject: Re: Number 'nine' in Chiwere.
 
Sky,

Yes, the initial k- seems to be part of the original term, probably from *ki-.  Down below your comments I have copied the Comparative Dictionary entry for 'nine'.  As you'll see, several of the languages show traces of the ki- or k-.  My Chiwere recordings showed a glottal stop as residue of the k-.  It's interesting that you found citations of the word with the full k-.

Thanks.

Bob

> Ek jdfk (ikshanke) – Wdtwhtl Wdwdklha Tva Eva Wdhonetl (1834) by Merrill
 
> Merrill’s form follows the ordinal number pattern (IE “ninth” rather than “nine”) but the “k” is still present which is what has me curious.  To date, all other sources I’ve come across only have “sanke/shanke” (or something along those lines) with no “k”.  It has been mentioned here that “sanke” was borrowed from Algonquian.  Does the inclusion of “k” also fit with other Algonquian “nines”?  
Thoughts?
 
GLOSS[ nine
 
GRAMCAT[ N
SEMCAT[ 
 
OTHREC[ {*kšą́kha}  {GHM58}
 
PMV[ *kšą́hka ¦ (?)
 
CH[ ʔšą́khe ‘nine’ rlr
CH[ θą́khe ‘nine’ rtc
 
PDH[ *šą́hka
OP[ šą́kka ¦ nine ¦ rlr
OP[ šǫ́kka ¦ nine ¦ rtc
KS[ šą́kka ¦ nine ¦ rlr
OS[ šą́hka ¦ nine, archaic, card game ¦ rlr
QU[ šąkka ¦ nine ¦ rlr
 
PSE[ *kišą́•hka ¦ (?)
 
BI[ †čkané “tckanĕ´” ‘nine’ DS:265 (?)
OF[ †kíštəška “kî´shtAshga” ‘nine’ {JRS09:485}
OF[ “kĭ´ctạcga” ‘nine’ DS:325b
 
TU[ †kisą́•hkai “tça (N), sā, sāñ, ksañk, ksāhkai, kasankai, ksākai” ‘nine’ HH
TU[ ¦ ksäⁿhk‘ ¦ ‘nine’ Hw.
TU[  ¦ sęk‘ ¦ ‘nine’ Sapir
TU[  ¦ kseⁿk ¦ ‘nine’ Fracht.
TU[ ¦ kiséⁿg, kisén ¦ two ¦ Fracht.
 
COM[ The recorded CH forms imply different underlying sibilants. PSI *š 
often does become [s], but only primary PSI *s > θ}, {i.e.}, CH {š} 
and {θ} never vary or alternate regularly. But note also the irregular TU 
{s} where {č} is expected. BI {tckanĕ´} {DS:265a} is probably 
borrowed from Choctaw-Chickasaw {čakkâ•li} {nine}; {n} is the usual 
BI replacement for Western Muskogean {l} This W. Muskogean term lacks 
Creek, Hitchiti cognates however, and may be from the same ultimate source 
as Siouan {*kišą́•hka} OF seems to show the intrusive {t} that appears 
following sibilants in {black}, {q.v.} OF {ạ} often represents 
denasalized {*ą}. {Cf.} also Powhatan {*ke•ka•ta•s} {nine} 
{FS 1975:309} as well as other, well known Algonquian look-alikes such as 
Ojibwa {ša•nk-} Fox {ša•ka}, Shawnee {caakathzwi}, Potawatomi 
{šak} {nine} {FS 1975:311, Rhodes, personal communication}. The 
distribution of this set (only the more southerly languages represented), the 
sibilant, and other phonological irregularities in CH, OF and TU, coupled 
with the presence of similar terms in both Algonquian and Muskogean 
languages lead us to conclude that this is a loanword. Direction(s) of 
borrowing and/or source of the term is unknown.
 

  ­­  
  ­­  
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From rlarson1 at UNL.EDU  Sat Mar 29 00:37:29 2014
From: rlarson1 at UNL.EDU (Rory Larson)
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2014 00:37:29 +0000
Subject: Number 'nine' in Chiwere.
In-Reply-To: <72663936A7BBD841B5FB12A49C95E436C33F81E1CF@Server6-EX.omtribe.net>
Message-ID: <SAT.29.MAR.2014.003729.0000.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

Sky,

Here’s where I really wish we still had Bob around, as the study of loan words from neighbors in the east was one of his specialties.  I’ll toss out what I can here, and maybe someone else will have other ideas.


Ø  Nine, grä̇bena – tscheh – uïningkä̇

Ø  (the whole run together); i. e.,

Ø  ten less one; they also say,

Ø  schangká

I looked up ‘nine’ in Carolyn Quitero’s Osage Dictionary, and the first (long) term is the only one she seems to have listed:

                lébrą hce wįįke

Dhegiha *gr- generally goes to l- in Osage and Kaw, but apparently in Maximilian’s time the leading /g/ was still present.  His ‘ä’ and his ‘eh’ apparently both represent what we write as /e/, while the ‘e’ between the ‘b’ and the ‘n’ presumably represents schwa.  The ‘n’ in the first word would be /r/ followed by a nasal vowel.  In Omaha, the corresponding word for ‘ten’ at that time was grébrą, now shortened to grébą.

I’m not entirely sure what to make of Maximilian’s ‘ch’ here.  That should be a voiceless velar or palatal fricative of the sort we generally write with /x/, except after s when I think the whole sequence ‘sch’ is pronounced /š/.  (Our German colleagues can correct me here.)  So then ‘tsch’ should be pronounced /č/.  But in Carolyn’s Osage orthography, ‘c’ is pronounced /ts/.  The pre-aspirated sequence hc- seems to equate to the tense stop tt- in Omaha, which would make hce the potential particle that in Omaha is tte and in Dakotan ktA.  Carolyn uses ch- as a post-aspirate where Omaha has the post-aspirated stop t ͪ  (t + raised h).  So Maximilian’s tscheh might be interpreted here as (ts = c) + (ch = x) + (eh = e), which would get us cxe, or che, the ‘standing’ positional that in Omaha is t ͪ e.  In the former case, the first two words would translate as ‘would-be ten’, and in the latter case as ‘ten standing’.  You may have a good enough sense of Maximilian’s orthography to choose between these.

Maximilian’s uȉ would be our /wi/.  Presumably his ningkä is Osage ðįké, equivalent to Omaha ðįgé, ‘none’ or ‘missing’.  So the whole sequence would essentially be ‘ten with one missing’, as he says.  Carolyn’s version wįįke doesn’t show the n/ð, but I don’t think that should be much of a problem.  In Omaha, that sound is often dropped before the similarly pronounced positional ðįk ͪ é, so I assume that that is all that happened here.



Ø  That got me to thinking about two things.  First, this looks to me like the “grä̇bena – tscheh – uïningkä̇” was the original term for nine and that “shangká” is the interloper.  It makes sense to me that the first version would be the original since it is an actual translation for nine in that language.

Perhaps, but it could also be that the ‘native’ term was reinvented in Osage.  The expression is unpleasantly long to be used commonly as we do, and it suggests a finger-counting system.  It’s likely that post-Mississippian peoples just didn’t need to count that high very often until white traders arrived, and some groups of speakers may have forgotten the older (borrowed) term and reinvented a sensible native replacement that initially had to be cumbersomely explicit.



Ø  Maximilian’s entry for “one” is ”uïnchtschä” and you can see a portion of that in the “tscheh” in the above term.

Carolyn Quintero has wį, wįxce for ‘one’.  The root for ‘one’ in Osage and Omaha is wį, which can also be used loosely as the article ‘a’, ‘an’.  To make it explicitly the numeral ‘one’, it seems that an intensifying ending is added onto it.  In Osage, that ending is xce (presumably not the same as the potential particle hce).  In Omaha, the more explicit term is wįáxči, presumably a diminutized form of wįáxti, in which the suffix -xti is a common intensifier.  What the accented /-á-/ in the middle is doing, I’ve never been able to figure out.  Otherwise, the Osage form here is the same except that its suffix is -xce instead of -xci as I would expect.



Ø  Ok, that was more of a “hey look at this, you may find it interesting” tidbit of information.  Here is the second thought that struck me.  It is the “uïningkä̇” portion of the term which looks related to the Otoe-Missouria “ninge” which is along the lines of no or none and has even been translated as “have none.”  That definitely fits with Maximilian’s mention of “less one.”  Then that got me to thinking again about the Otoe-Missouria “ninge” which I’ve seen (and heard) as also being pronounced “ninye.”  And then that got me to thinking about the term for nine that was given to me by a tribal member which was “nanye” and now I am wondering if that is a possible variant of ”ninye/ninge” and could be a potential long-lost relic of the original Otoe-Missouria term for nine which could very well have been something along the lines of “ten less one” as well before “sanke” moved in.

Ø

Ø  Of course I am basing this on me turning my head to the side while looking at it and banking a bit on the similarities between Otoe-Missouria and Osage but this still has drawn my attention and I wanted to get some feedback from you guys to see what you think.

Ø

Ø  Thoughts?

I think that’s a very promising idea.  Rather than figuring out a sound shift rule to get us from /niⁿ/ to /naⁿ/ though, perhaps we could suppose that the /naⁿ/ came about from the effect of a longer sequence that once existed before the ninye, presumably involving ‘one’.  Maybe the original was something like iyáⁿki-niⁿge, which impatiently tonguetwisted speakers radically collapsed to náⁿge, and from there to your nanye.

Do you happen to remember which syllable of nanye was accented?

Best,
Rory

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From sky at LEGENDREADERS.COM  Sun Mar 30 01:56:43 2014
From: sky at LEGENDREADERS.COM (Sky Campbell)
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2014 20:56:43 -0500
Subject: Number 'nine' in Chiwere.
In-Reply-To: <1396042895.34068.YahooMailNeo@web185405.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <SAT.29.MAR.2014.205643.0500.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

Yes, I've seen that.  With all the talk of the possible origin of "sanke" and the tribal member giving me the term "nanye", it has my mind whirring :).

 

Sky

 

From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] On Behalf Of Emilia Aigotti
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2014 4:42 PM
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
Subject: Re: Number 'nine' in Chiwere.

 

Did you see this entry in the online Chiwere dictionary? It gives some similarities to other Siouan languages. Not sure if this is helpful. Searching my other documents...

 

šánke; ^sánke (GM); šáŋke (DOR) n. nine. [W. shaatgówi; OmP. shanka; Os. shanka; gdhébdhantsewindhinge; L/D. shakówin; H. sháhpuw; M. kú:pa; T. sa:kom; Of. fáckumi]. 

 

 

Emilia Garcia

  _____  

From: "Campbell, Sky" <sky at OMTRIBE.ORG>
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu 
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2014 1:06 PM
Subject: Re: Number 'nine' in Chiwere.

 

Looking for something else, I came across this information on the number nine.  It was mentioned before that the Siouan languages may have borrowed the term “sanke” from the Algonquian languages (or vice versa).  I found this among Maximilian’s Osage terms:

 

 

Nine, grä̇bena – tscheh – uïningkä̇

(the whole run together); i. e.,

ten less one; they also say,

schangká

 

 

That got me to thinking about two things.  First, this looks to me like the “grä̇bena – tscheh – uïningkä̇” was the original term for nine and that “shangká” is the interloper.  It makes sense to me that the first version would be the original since it is an actual translation for nine in that language.

 

Maximilian’s entry for “one” is ”uïnchtschä” and you can see a portion of that in the “tscheh” in the above term.

 

Ok, that was more of a “hey look at this, you may find it interesting” tidbit of information.  Here is the second thought that struck me.  It is the “uïningkä̇” portion of the term which looks related to the Otoe-Missouria “ninge” which is along the lines of no or none and has even been translated as “have none.”  That definitely fits with Maximilian’s mention of “less one.”  Then that got me to thinking again about the Otoe-Missouria “ninge” which I’ve seen (and heard) as also being pronounced “ninye.”  And then that got me to thinking about the term for nine that was given to me by a tribal member which was “nanye” and now I am wondering if that is a possible variant of ”ninye/ninge” and could be a potential long-lost relic of the original Otoe-Missouria term for nine which could very well have been something along the lines of “ten less one” as well before “sanke” moved in.

 

Of course I am basing this on me turning my head to the side while looking at it and banking a bit on the similarities between Otoe-Missouria and Osage but this still has drawn my attention and I wanted to get some feedback from you guys to see what you think.

 

Thoughts?

 

Sky Campbell, B. A.

Language Director

Otoe-Missouria Tribe

580-723-4466 ext. 111

sky at omtribe.org

 

From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] On Behalf Of Campbell, Sky
Sent: Friday, December 06, 2013 9:47 AM
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
Subject: Re: Number 'nine' in Chiwere.

 

I wondered if there was a glottal stop in there somewhere.  I see a “k” in Hamilton and Irvin’s books when there would often be a glottal stop.  For example, their list of catechisms which they titled “We-wv-hæ-kju” (Wiwąxesų or Wiwąxe’sų (“(general) questions”)).

 

What I also find interesting is that Hamilton and Irvin’s publication five years later (1848) (An Ioway Grammar) doesn’t have the “k” with the word for “nine.”

 

Sky Campbell, B. A.

Language Director

Otoe-Missouria Tribe

580-723-4466 ext. 111

sky at omtribe.org

 

From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] On Behalf Of Rankin, Robert L.
Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2013 4:40 PM
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
Subject: Re: Number 'nine' in Chiwere.

 

Sky,

Yes, the initial k- seems to be part of the original term, probably from *ki-.  Down below your comments I have copied the Comparative Dictionary entry for 'nine'.  As you'll see, several of the languages show traces of the ki- or k-.  My Chiwere recordings showed a glottal stop as residue of the k-.  It's interesting that you found citations of the word with the full k-.

Thanks.

Bob

> Ek jdfk (ikshanke) – Wdtwhtl Wdwdklha Tva Eva Wdhonetl (1834) by Merrill 

 

> Merrill’s form follows the ordinal number pattern (IE “ninth” rather than “nine”) but the “k” is still present which is what has me curious.  To date, all other sources I’ve come across only have “sanke/shanke” (or something along those lines) with no “k”.  It has been mentioned here that “sanke” was borrowed from Algonquian.  Does the inclusion of “k” also fit with other Algonquian “nines”?  

Thoughts?

 

GLOSS[ nine

 

GRAMCAT[ N

SEMCAT[ 

 

OTHREC[ {*kšą́kha}  {GHM58}

 

PMV[ *kšą́hka ¦ (?)

 

CH[ ʔšą́khe ‘nine’ rlr

CH[ θą́khe ‘nine’ rtc

 

PDH[ *šą́hka

OP[ šą́kka ¦ nine ¦ rlr

OP[ šǫ́kka ¦ nine ¦ rtc

KS[ šą́kka ¦ nine ¦ rlr

OS[ šą́hka ¦ nine, archaic, card game ¦ rlr

QU[ šąkka ¦ nine ¦ rlr

 

PSE[ *kišą́•hka ¦ (?)

 

BI[ †čkané “tckanĕ´” ‘nine’ DS:265 (?)

OF[ †kíštəška “kî´shtAshga” ‘nine’ {JRS09:485}

OF[ “kĭ´ctạcga” ‘nine’ DS:325b

 

TU[ †kisą́•hkai “tça (N), sā, sāñ, ksañk, ksāhkai, kasankai, ksākai” ‘nine’ HH

TU[ ¦ ksäⁿhk‘ ¦ ‘nine’ Hw.

TU[  ¦ sęk‘ ¦ ‘nine’ Sapir

TU[  ¦ kseⁿk ¦ ‘nine’ Fracht.

TU[ ¦ kiséⁿg, kisén ¦ two ¦ Fracht.

 

COM[ The recorded CH forms imply different underlying sibilants. PSI *š 

often does become [s], but only primary PSI *s > θ}, {i.e.}, CH {š} 

and {θ} never vary or alternate regularly. But note also the irregular TU 

{s} where {č} is expected. BI {tckanĕ´} {DS:265a} is probably 

borrowed from Choctaw-Chickasaw {čakkâ•li} {nine}; {n} is the usual 

BI replacement for Western Muskogean {l} This W. Muskogean term lacks 

Creek, Hitchiti cognates however, and may be from the same ultimate source 

as Siouan {*kišą́•hka} OF seems to show the intrusive {t} that appears 

following sibilants in {black}, {q.v.} OF {ạ} often represents 

denasalized {*ą}. {Cf.} also Powhatan {*ke•ka•ta•s} {nine} 

{FS 1975:309} as well as other, well known Algonquian look-alikes such as 

Ojibwa {ša•nk-} Fox {ša•ka}, Shawnee {caakathzwi}, Potawatomi 

{šak} {nine} {FS 1975:311, Rhodes, personal communication}. The 

distribution of this set (only the more southerly languages represented), the 

sibilant, and other phonological irregularities in CH, OF and TU, coupled 

with the presence of similar terms in both Algonquian and Muskogean 

languages lead us to conclude that this is a loanword. Direction(s) of 

borrowing and/or source of the term is unknown.

 


  ­­  


  ­­  

 

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From sky at LEGENDREADERS.COM  Sun Mar 30 02:20:19 2014
From: sky at LEGENDREADERS.COM (Sky Campbell)
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2014 21:20:19 -0500
Subject: Number 'nine' in Chiwere.
In-Reply-To: <d487899c1ae941ce9e2939e045d0343f@DM2PR08MB525.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <SAT.29.MAR.2014.212019.0500.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

Your take on the pronunciations are what I have found as well.  Maximilian was really big on the "x" sound which he represented as "ch".  Most of his entries with "ch" have a note that says something like "ch guttural."  And I am also of the opinion that his "sch" is our "sh" sound.  He also simply uses an "s" where he felt it was needed.  Although some of his spellings aren't always consistent when he is going with the same word (used in other areas), he does seem to have taken great care to represent pronunciations as accurately as possible.  Most of his terms have little notes (as I mentioned above) with them.  And from what I've seen of his use of "tsch", it seems to be a "ch" pronounced somewhat forcefully (I don't know the technical term for that).

 

I hadn't considered the idea of the term being reinvented in Osage.  I guess it shouldn't be surprising that a culture that has those types of conventions might fill a need in the same manner as before.

 

I'd wondered about the "xce" as well as far as being an intensifier.  In Otoe-Missouria, you have a few variants that I've come across.  First is more of the "h" sound with "-hji".  But I've also often found that where you have a sort of "intrusive h", there are often "x" variants (for example, hga/xga for "white").  So I've also seen "-xji" as well.  And to top it off, there are a lot of "s" sounds that work in there as well.  I hear the "s" version pronounced often where I work.  So that suffix would be "-sji" (other examples would be "wanuhje/wanusje" for "animal").  Another thing to consider is perhaps Maximilian's "ch" for the "xce" portion might be that "k" sound that emerges with glottal stops (I don't know the technical term for it but Hamilton and Irvin document it a lot in their Ioway books).



When the tribal member pronounced "nanye", the stress was on the first syllable (NAH-nyay).  And if it helps, I've heard tribal members attempt (I say "attempt" since they weren't fluent speakers but were doing their best) the word "daninye/daninge" (drunk) as "dananye".  So perhaps it is a sort of mash-up as you suggest or maybe just a result of the term coming from someone who isn't fully fluent.

 

Sky

 

From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] On Behalf Of Rory Larson
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2014 7:37 PM
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
Subject: Re: Number 'nine' in Chiwere.

 

Sky,

 

Here’s where I really wish we still had Bob around, as the study of loan words from neighbors in the east was one of his specialties.  I’ll toss out what I can here, and maybe someone else will have other ideas.

 

Ø  Nine, grä̇bena – tscheh – uïningkä̇

Ø  (the whole run together); i. e.,

Ø  ten less one; they also say,

Ø  schangká

 

I looked up ‘nine’ in Carolyn Quitero’s Osage Dictionary, and the first (long) term is the only one she seems to have listed:

 

                lébrą hce wįįke

 

Dhegiha *gr- generally goes to l- in Osage and Kaw, but apparently in Maximilian’s time the leading /g/ was still present.  His ‘ä’ and his ‘eh’ apparently both represent what we write as /e/, while the ‘e’ between the ‘b’ and the ‘n’ presumably represents schwa.  The ‘n’ in the first word would be /r/ followed by a nasal vowel.  In Omaha, the corresponding word for ‘ten’ at that time was grébrą, now shortened to grébą.

 

I’m not entirely sure what to make of Maximilian’s ‘ch’ here.  That should be a voiceless velar or palatal fricative of the sort we generally write with /x/, except after s when I think the whole sequence ‘sch’ is pronounced /š/.  (Our German colleagues can correct me here.)  So then ‘tsch’ should be pronounced /č/.  But in Carolyn’s Osage orthography, ‘c’ is pronounced /ts/.  The pre-aspirated sequence hc- seems to equate to the tense stop tt- in Omaha, which would make hce the potential particle that in Omaha is tte and in Dakotan ktA.  Carolyn uses ch- as a post-aspirate where Omaha has the post-aspirated stop t ͪ  (t + raised h).  So Maximilian’s tscheh might be interpreted here as (ts = c) + (ch = x) + (eh = e), which would get us cxe, or che, the ‘standing’ positional that in Omaha is t ͪ e.  In the former case, the first two words would translate as ‘would-be ten’, and in the latter case as ‘ten standing’.  You may have a good enough sense of Maximilian’s orthography to choose between these.

 

Maximilian’s uȉ would be our /wi/.  Presumably his ningkä is Osage ðįké, equivalent to Omaha ðįgé, ‘none’ or ‘missing’.  So the whole sequence would essentially be ‘ten with one missing’, as he says.  Carolyn’s version wįįke doesn’t show the n/ð, but I don’t think that should be much of a problem.  In Omaha, that sound is often dropped before the similarly pronounced positional ðįk ͪ é, so I assume that that is all that happened here.

 

 

Ø  That got me to thinking about two things.  First, this looks to me like the “grä̇bena – tscheh – uïningkä̇” was the original term for nine and that “shangká” is the interloper.  It makes sense to me that the first version would be the original since it is an actual translation for nine in that language.

 

Perhaps, but it could also be that the ‘native’ term was reinvented in Osage.  The expression is unpleasantly long to be used commonly as we do, and it suggests a finger-counting system.  It’s likely that post-Mississippian peoples just didn’t need to count that high very often until white traders arrived, and some groups of speakers may have forgotten the older (borrowed) term and reinvented a sensible native replacement that initially had to be cumbersomely explicit.

 

 

Ø  Maximilian’s entry for “one” is ”uïnchtschä” and you can see a portion of that in the “tscheh” in the above term.

 

Carolyn Quintero has wį, wįxce for ‘one’.  The root for ‘one’ in Osage and Omaha is wį, which can also be used loosely as the article ‘a’, ‘an’.  To make it explicitly the numeral ‘one’, it seems that an intensifying ending is added onto it.  In Osage, that ending is xce (presumably not the same as the potential particle hce).  In Omaha, the more explicit term is wįáxči, presumably a diminutized form of wįáxti, in which the suffix -xti is a common intensifier.  What the accented /-á-/ in the middle is doing, I’ve never been able to figure out.  Otherwise, the Osage form here is the same except that its suffix is -xce instead of -xci as I would expect.

 

 

Ø  Ok, that was more of a “hey look at this, you may find it interesting” tidbit of information.  Here is the second thought that struck me.  It is the “uïningkä̇” portion of the term which looks related to the Otoe-Missouria “ninge” which is along the lines of no or none and has even been translated as “have none.”  That definitely fits with Maximilian’s mention of “less one.”  Then that got me to thinking again about the Otoe-Missouria “ninge” which I’ve seen (and heard) as also being pronounced “ninye.”  And then that got me to thinking about the term for nine that was given to me by a tribal member which was “nanye” and now I am wondering if that is a possible variant of ”ninye/ninge” and could be a potential long-lost relic of the original Otoe-Missouria term for nine which could very well have been something along the lines of “ten less one” as well before “sanke” moved in.

Ø   

Ø  Of course I am basing this on me turning my head to the side while looking at it and banking a bit on the similarities between Otoe-Missouria and Osage but this still has drawn my attention and I wanted to get some feedback from you guys to see what you think.

Ø   

Ø  Thoughts?

 

I think that’s a very promising idea.  Rather than figuring out a sound shift rule to get us from /niⁿ/ to /naⁿ/ though, perhaps we could suppose that the /naⁿ/ came about from the effect of a longer sequence that once existed before the ninye, presumably involving ‘one’.  Maybe the original was something like iyáⁿki-niⁿge, which impatiently tonguetwisted speakers radically collapsed to náⁿge, and from there to your nanye.

 

Do you happen to remember which syllable of nanye was accented?

 

Best,

Rory

 

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From linguist at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Sat Mar  1 00:22:37 2014
From: linguist at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (Bryan James Gordon)
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 17:22:37 -0700
Subject: Question re: Dhegiha and other Siouan quotatives
In-Reply-To: <003201cf34dc$a2fd6a40$e8f83ec0$@com>
Message-ID: <FRI.28.FEB.2014.172237.0700.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

I should have called them "verbs that work like 'command'" and avoided the
word "raising" altogether, which is a theoretical designation and not even
the appropriate one for that construction. In UmoNhoN Iye and PaNka Iye
"command" gets a subject and an object inflection while its complement verb
gets nothing, as in the example "unaN'aN aNthagazhi" "you commanded me to
hear about it".

Verbs like "bring" of course are another category that I totally forgot
about in my list, and those are actually the most similar to what people
tend to call "serial verbs" in theoretical linguistics. In my experience
generally both verbs in these constructions are fully inflected, and there
are some quite complicated constructions like "he-having-them-for-you
I-made-my-relation-depart-homeward-towards-you". I mean, when I say fully
inflected, I mean fully inflected!!!

Bryan
On Feb 28, 2014 4:30 PM, "Sky Campbell" <sky at legendreaders.com> wrote:

> Compiling a list of these is on my "to do" list.  I've seen them before
> but never knew what to call them.  I know of examples like "bring" which
> roughly translates to "have - come" so I decided to see if I could find
> it.  While looking in Dorsey's material, I found a serial verb composed of
> three verbs and each of them conjugated.  Here it is as Dorsey documented
> it:
>
>
>
> a-nyi-hi-re - to have gone out of sight with any thing; to have taken any
> thing away
>
>
>
> Here are the three verbs:
>
>
>
> anyi - have
>
>
>
> hi - arrive there
>
>
>
> re - go
>
>
>
> His conjugation for the 2nd person singular came out as (respelled in our
> system):
>
>
>
> asd? rahi sre
>
>
>
> asd? - you have
>
>
>
> rahi - you arrive there
>
>
>
> sre - you go
>
>
>
> He has a load of these that would need to be gone over to see if all of
> them are conjugated this way but this is interesting nonetheless.  I
> haven't come across a succession of three verbs like this before until
> now.  A quick scan shows more "three verb" serial verbs.
>
>
>
> "Command raising" verbs was mentioned.  What exactly are those?  I'm also
> curious how (if any) valence-reducing affixes come into play here.
>
>
>
> Sky
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] *On Behalf Of
> *David Kaufman
> *Sent:* Friday, February 28, 2014 12:32 PM
> *To:* SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
> *Subject:* Re: Question re: Dhegiha and other Siouan quotatives
>
>
>
> Sky, thanks for this!  I think I'm going to go through and compile a list
> of attested Kaw serial verbs and how they're conjugated.  Bryan seems to
> think that there could be a sub-category of serial verbs where the first
> verb is not conjugated though the second one is.  Not sure how far I can
> get with this, but I may try and present this, at least the Kaw case, as a
> paper at the SCLC in May.
>
>
>
> Dave
>
>
> David Kaufman
>
> Linguistic Anthropology PhD candidate, University of Kansas
>
> Director, Kaw Nation Language Program
>
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 12:18 PM, Campbell, Sky <sky at omtribe.org> wrote:
>
> Dave,
>
>
>
> Not sure if you are still into this but I found this today.  William
> Hamilton and Samuel Irvin have on page 33 of their *Elementary Book of
> the Ioway Language*:
>
>
>
> ha-u-ha-mvn-y? ? I always do so
>
>
>
> This would be:
>
>
>
> Ha?? hamanyi
>
>
>
> ha?? ? I do
>
>
>
> hamanyi ? I walk/I always
>
>
>
> Here you have both conjugated in the first person using the prefix ?ha-?.
> There are other examples out there but I need to find them.
>
>
>
> Hope this helps.
>
>
>
> *Sky Campbell, B. A.*
>
> Language Director
>
> Otoe-Missouria Tribe
>
> 580-723-4466 ext. 111
>
> sky at omtribe.org
>
>
>
> *From:* Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] *On Behalf Of
> *David Kaufman
>
>
> *Sent:* Friday, February 21, 2014 12:54 PM
>
> *To:* SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
>
>
> *Subject:* Re: Question re: Dhegiha and other Siouan quotatives
>
>
>
> Thanks Rory and Justin for the feedback.
>
>
>
> On another note, I've also been wondering about how serial verbs are
> handled in Siouan in general.  In the Kaw data, when two verbs come
> together, the second verb always conjugates for person while the first
> looks like it can either conjugate to match the second verb or it can stay
> in the third person (neutral) form.  I seem to recall that in Biloxi,
> serial verbs *always* match, first and second verbs having the same person
> conjugation.  What do other Siouan languages do in regards to this?  Are
> there any hard and fast rules about this?
>
>
>
> Thanks again!
>
>
>
> Dave
>
>
> David Kaufman
>
> Linguistic Anthropology PhD candidate, University of Kansas
>
> Director, Kaw Nation Language Program
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 5:15 PM, Rory Larson <rlarson1 at unl.edu> wrote:
>
> Thanks for the analysis, Justin.  That makes much better sense than what I
> had suggested.  Very interesting that the Kaw (a)be particle, which should
> be either cognate or closely related to the Omaha (a)bi particle, can
> ablaut.  I wasn?t aware of that; it?s good to know.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> Rory
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] *On Behalf Of
> *Mcbride, Justin
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 20, 2014 3:00 PM
> *To:* SIOUAN at LISTSERV.UNL.EDU
> *Subject:* Re: Question re: Dhegiha and other Siouan quotatives
>
>
>
> For what it's worth, I believe that what appears to be a second token of
> aba in the example, aba-daN is actually a different type altogether. In
> this case, I think it's a case of the verb e(e), 'to say', plus the -(a)be
> completive aspect marker plus the conjunction -(a)daN, 'and'
> [e(e)-(a)be-(a)daN > aba-daN]. If so, then, that one really is just 's/he
> said and,' and the first one is actually the subject marker. But that's not
> to say that there aren't other examples of the quotative use of subject
> markers in Ks, even within the same text. Here's an example of quotative
> akHa:
>
>
>
> iccikkitaNga akha oo aNs^i waali miNkHe akHa.
>
> The Old Man said, "Oh, I'm getting fat."
>
>
>
> This case is much clearer to my way of thinking because there are two
> verbal auxiliaries marking the same state (in this case, at rest)
> back-to-back, one of which refers to 1st person (miNkHe, part of the
> quotation), and one 3rd person (akHa, marks quotation). It's curious to
> note that in the audio for this, the speaker laughs after miNkHe and then
> almost catches her breath before saying akHa, which would indicate to me
> that she felt it was essential for concluding the sentence. It's
> interesting to me in that it seems that the entire quoted clause is acting
> almost like a verb following the canonical pattern (subject) SUBJ (verb)
> AUX, where SUBJ and AUX match shape in the continuative aspect, as in
> s^idoz^iNga akHa ghaage akHa, 'the boy is crying.'
>
>
>
> -jtm
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 1:50 PM, Rory Larson <rlarson1 at unl.edu> wrote:
>
> Hi Dave,
>
>
>
> In Omaha and Ponca, the corresponding article is am?, where you have ab?.
> As with Kaw, it tends to imply ?moving/absent?.  But we also have another
> particle, apparently pronounced the same way, coming at the end of the
> sentence, that implies that the foregoing is hearsay rather than solid
> fact.  It can stand by itself, or it can be coupled with the ?allegedly?
> particle bi to make the common ending for 3rd person hearsay action,
> biama.
>
>
>
> I notice the accent changes to the first syllable in the second case of
> your example.  I wonder if that could be underlyingly a-aba in that case?
> The first would be the ablauted version of ?he said it?, followed by either
> the Old Man?s article ab? or a ?hearsay? particle as in OP.  One problem
> with that would be that the ?hearsay? am? in OP shouldn?t cause a preceding
> verb to ablaut.
>
>
>
> My $0.02.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> Rory
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] *On Behalf Of
> *David Kaufman
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 20, 2014 1:30 PM
> *To:* SIOUAN at LISTSERV.UNL.EDU
> *Subject:* Question re: Dhegiha and other Siouan quotatives
>
>
>
> Hi all,
>
>
>
> I have a question re: a curious structure in Kaw, and whether anything
> like it occurs in other Dhegihan or even non-Dhegihan Siouan languages.
>  The structure involves the articles akh? and ab?, used for subjects in Kaw
> and usually translated 'the', the first being roughly for
> 'standing/sitting' and the other for 'moving/absent'.  However, in Kaw,
> these subject articles also somehow seem to have become used as quotatives,
> or 's/he said.'  Here is an example sentence with gloss:
>
>
>
> *Ic?kitanga  ab?, ?Any?xtaga-?dan,? ?ba-dan,  nanst?be.*
>
> Old.Man   said   bite.me-then          said-then   kicked.him
>
> The Old Man said, ?Then bite me,? and he kicked him.
>
>
>
> So ab?, which is normally used for 'moving' subjects and is usually
> translated 'the', is now being used for 's/he said.'
>
>
>
> Any thoughts on this, esp. from other Dhegihan perspectives, or other
> Siouan languages that might have some similar usage?
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
>
> David Kaufman
>
> Linguistic Anthropology PhD candidate, University of Kansas
>
> Director, Kaw Nation Language Program
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   ??
>
>
>
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From linguist at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Sat Mar  1 02:07:23 2014
From: linguist at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (Bryan James Gordon)
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 19:07:23 -0700
Subject: Question re: Dhegiha and other Siouan quotatives
In-Reply-To: <CADVVCOjExzYtRCOCj4wecJOUxmRARyKPQLs1eKct-+usZNt1DQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.28.FEB.2014.190723.0700.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

But on second thought I don't really mean "fully inflected", because even
in the bring/take-type verbs the first verb doesn't get the
number/proximacy ablaut/suffix/postclitic/whatever-it-is. It's "athiN
atha", not "athiNi atha" ("S/he took it").
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From jfu at LAKHOTA.ORG  Sat Mar  1 10:31:22 2014
From: jfu at LAKHOTA.ORG (Jan Ullrich)
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 11:31:22 +0100
Subject: Question re: Dhegiha and other Siouan quotatives
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.64.1402281444520.3187@spot.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <SAT.1.MAR.2014.113122.0100.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

> Several people have noted (not sure whether published or not) that Lakota
complements 
> to verbs that require same-subject for both verbs (e.g. 
> 'try') do not allow affixes on the first verb, while those which permit a
change of subject (like 'want') 
> do require that both verbs be marked.  

I have been under the impression that there are only two Lakota verbs that
require both verbs in a complex predicate to be conjugated. They are chin
'to want' and okihi 'to be able to'. 
If there is data pointing to other verbs that behave like this it would be
useful to know.

Jan


From sky at LEGENDREADERS.COM  Sat Mar  1 15:40:32 2014
From: sky at LEGENDREADERS.COM (Sky Campbell)
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 09:40:32 -0600
Subject: Question re: Dhegiha and other Siouan quotatives
In-Reply-To: <007201cf3539$645ce010$2d16a030$@org>
Message-ID: <SAT.1.MAR.2014.094032.0600.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

Your mention of the Lakota term "okihi" has me very interested and also ties
into these serial verbs.  Hamilton has in his "An Ioway Grammar" book on
page 52:

--------------begin Hamilton---------------

This mood does not express power or ability to do an act, as its name might
seem to imply. Ability expressed by can in English is not properly expressed
by any one of the moods, but generally by the subjunctive and potential
together; as,

Ha-u e-ha-tu-ka-na-sk?, ha-u-hna-sku. If I willed it, I would do it.
Literally: I do, if I will it, I may do it.

--------------end Hamilton---------------

Here Hamilton is referring to what he calls the "potential mood."  I'm
curious about Lakota having the one word for "to be able" ("can") whereas
Hamilton says it isn't that simple in Ioway.  But on the subject of serial
verbs, the above shows 3 verbs (2 of them being the same):

ha'u - I do/work/make/create

ihaduganasge - if I willed it (I've seen this also as "ihadugra" (minus the
-nasge))

ha'uhnasgu - I may do it (here is the same verb "ha'u" with a few extra
suffixes to change the meaning a bit)

So here again we have 3 verbs all conjugated.  I wasn't sure I'd find one
beyond something along the lines of bring/take something somewhere.  But the
mention of "to be able" reminded me of Hamilton's above phrase.


Sky



-----Original Message-----
From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] On Behalf Of Jan
Ullrich
Sent: Saturday, March 1, 2014 4:31 AM
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
Subject: Re: Question re: Dhegiha and other Siouan quotatives

> Several people have noted (not sure whether published or not) that 
> Lakota
complements 
> to verbs that require same-subject for both verbs (e.g. 
> 'try') do not allow affixes on the first verb, while those which 
> permit a
change of subject (like 'want') 
> do require that both verbs be marked.  

I have been under the impression that there are only two Lakota verbs that
require both verbs in a complex predicate to be conjugated. They are chin
'to want' and okihi 'to be able to'. 
If there is data pointing to other verbs that behave like this it would be
useful to know.

Jan


From david.rood at COLORADO.EDU  Sat Mar  1 18:56:42 2014
From: david.rood at COLORADO.EDU (ROOD DAVID S)
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 11:56:42 -0700
Subject: Question re: Dhegiha and other Siouan quotatives
In-Reply-To: <CADVVCOgPLbnJ-CHiKT6MfJWrh6psj6YX=Qs92K=0SyxSxZFN-g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SAT.1.MAR.2014.115642.0700.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>


Bryan, I haven't been following all the ins and outs of this discussion, 
so please forgive me if this is redundant.  Your 'command' rule needs to 
be verified using a lower verb with a first or second person object.  I 
would expect 'he commanded me to find you' would have an object inflection 
on 'find'.
 	Best,
 	David

David S. Rood
Dept. of Linguistics
Univ. of Colorado
295 UCB
Boulder, CO 80309-0295
USA
rood at colorado.edu

On Fri, 28 Feb 2014, Bryan James Gordon wrote:

> I should have called them "verbs that work like 'command'" and avoided the
> word "raising" altogether, which is a theoretical designation and not even
> the appropriate one for that construction. In UmoNhoN Iye and PaNka Iye
> "command" gets a subject and an object inflection while its complement verb
> gets nothing, as in the example "unaN'aN aNthagazhi" "you commanded me to
> hear about it".
>
> Verbs like "bring" of course are another category that I totally forgot
> about in my list, and those are actually the most similar to what people
> tend to call "serial verbs" in theoretical linguistics. In my experience
> generally both verbs in these constructions are fully inflected, and there
> are some quite complicated constructions like "he-having-them-for-you
> I-made-my-relation-depart-homeward-towards-you". I mean, when I say fully
> inflected, I mean fully inflected!!!
>
> Bryan
> On Feb 28, 2014 4:30 PM, "Sky Campbell" <sky at legendreaders.com> wrote:
>
>> Compiling a list of these is on my "to do" list.  I've seen them before
>> but never knew what to call them.  I know of examples like "bring" which
>> roughly translates to "have - come" so I decided to see if I could find
>> it.  While looking in Dorsey's material, I found a serial verb composed of
>> three verbs and each of them conjugated.  Here it is as Dorsey documented
>> it:
>>
>>
>>
>> a-nyi-hi-re - to have gone out of sight with any thing; to have taken any
>> thing away
>>
>>
>>
>> Here are the three verbs:
>>
>>
>>
>> anyi - have
>>
>>
>>
>> hi - arrive there
>>
>>
>>
>> re - go
>>
>>
>>
>> His conjugation for the 2nd person singular came out as (respelled in our
>> system):
>>
>>
>>
>> asd?? rahi sre
>>
>>
>>
>> asd?? - you have
>>
>>
>>
>> rahi - you arrive there
>>
>>
>>
>> sre - you go
>>
>>
>>
>> He has a load of these that would need to be gone over to see if all of
>> them are conjugated this way but this is interesting nonetheless.  I
>> haven't come across a succession of three verbs like this before until
>> now.  A quick scan shows more "three verb" serial verbs.
>>
>>
>>
>> "Command raising" verbs was mentioned.  What exactly are those?  I'm also
>> curious how (if any) valence-reducing affixes come into play here.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sky
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] *On Behalf Of
>> *David Kaufman
>> *Sent:* Friday, February 28, 2014 12:32 PM
>> *To:* SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
>> *Subject:* Re: Question re: Dhegiha and other Siouan quotatives
>>
>>
>>
>> Sky, thanks for this!  I think I'm going to go through and compile a list
>> of attested Kaw serial verbs and how they're conjugated.  Bryan seems to
>> think that there could be a sub-category of serial verbs where the first
>> verb is not conjugated though the second one is.  Not sure how far I can
>> get with this, but I may try and present this, at least the Kaw case, as a
>> paper at the SCLC in May.
>>
>>
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>> David Kaufman
>>
>> Linguistic Anthropology PhD candidate, University of Kansas
>>
>> Director, Kaw Nation Language Program
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 12:18 PM, Campbell, Sky <sky at omtribe.org> wrote:
>>
>> Dave,
>>
>>
>>
>> Not sure if you are still into this but I found this today.  William
>> Hamilton and Samuel Irvin have on page 33 of their *Elementary Book of
>> the Ioway Language*:
>>
>>
>>
>> ha-u-ha-mvn-y?? ??? I always do so
>>
>>
>>
>> This would be:
>>
>>
>>
>> Ha????? hamanyi
>>
>>
>>
>> ha????? ??? I do
>>
>>
>>
>> hamanyi ??? I walk/I always
>>
>>
>>
>> Here you have both conjugated in the first person using the prefix ???ha-???.
>> There are other examples out there but I need to find them.
>>
>>
>>
>> Hope this helps.
>>
>>
>>
>> *Sky Campbell, B. A.*
>>
>> Language Director
>>
>> Otoe-Missouria Tribe
>>
>> 580-723-4466 ext. 111
>>
>> sky at omtribe.org
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] *On Behalf Of
>> *David Kaufman
>>
>>
>> *Sent:* Friday, February 21, 2014 12:54 PM
>>
>> *To:* SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
>>
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: Question re: Dhegiha and other Siouan quotatives
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks Rory and Justin for the feedback.
>>
>>
>>
>> On another note, I've also been wondering about how serial verbs are
>> handled in Siouan in general.  In the Kaw data, when two verbs come
>> together, the second verb always conjugates for person while the first
>> looks like it can either conjugate to match the second verb or it can stay
>> in the third person (neutral) form.  I seem to recall that in Biloxi,
>> serial verbs *always* match, first and second verbs having the same person
>> conjugation.  What do other Siouan languages do in regards to this?  Are
>> there any hard and fast rules about this?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks again!
>>
>>
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>> David Kaufman
>>
>> Linguistic Anthropology PhD candidate, University of Kansas
>>
>> Director, Kaw Nation Language Program
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 5:15 PM, Rory Larson <rlarson1 at unl.edu> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for the analysis, Justin.  That makes much better sense than what I
>> had suggested.  Very interesting that the Kaw (a)be particle, which should
>> be either cognate or closely related to the Omaha (a)bi particle, can
>> ablaut.  I wasn???t aware of that; it???s good to know.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Rory
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] *On Behalf Of
>> *Mcbride, Justin
>> *Sent:* Thursday, February 20, 2014 3:00 PM
>> *To:* SIOUAN at LISTSERV.UNL.EDU
>> *Subject:* Re: Question re: Dhegiha and other Siouan quotatives
>>
>>
>>
>> For what it's worth, I believe that what appears to be a second token of
>> aba in the example, aba-daN is actually a different type altogether. In
>> this case, I think it's a case of the verb e(e), 'to say', plus the -(a)be
>> completive aspect marker plus the conjunction -(a)daN, 'and'
>> [e(e)-(a)be-(a)daN > aba-daN]. If so, then, that one really is just 's/he
>> said and,' and the first one is actually the subject marker. But that's not
>> to say that there aren't other examples of the quotative use of subject
>> markers in Ks, even within the same text. Here's an example of quotative
>> akHa:
>>
>>
>>
>> iccikkitaNga akha oo aNs^i waali miNkHe akHa.
>>
>> The Old Man said, "Oh, I'm getting fat."
>>
>>
>>
>> This case is much clearer to my way of thinking because there are two
>> verbal auxiliaries marking the same state (in this case, at rest)
>> back-to-back, one of which refers to 1st person (miNkHe, part of the
>> quotation), and one 3rd person (akHa, marks quotation). It's curious to
>> note that in the audio for this, the speaker laughs after miNkHe and then
>> almost catches her breath before saying akHa, which would indicate to me
>> that she felt it was essential for concluding the sentence. It's
>> interesting to me in that it seems that the entire quoted clause is acting
>> almost like a verb following the canonical pattern (subject) SUBJ (verb)
>> AUX, where SUBJ and AUX match shape in the continuative aspect, as in
>> s^idoz^iNga akHa ghaage akHa, 'the boy is crying.'
>>
>>
>>
>> -jtm
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 1:50 PM, Rory Larson <rlarson1 at unl.edu> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Dave,
>>
>>
>>
>> In Omaha and Ponca, the corresponding article is am??, where you have ab??.
>> As with Kaw, it tends to imply ???moving/absent???.  But we also have another
>> particle, apparently pronounced the same way, coming at the end of the
>> sentence, that implies that the foregoing is hearsay rather than solid
>> fact.  It can stand by itself, or it can be coupled with the ???allegedly???
>> particle bi to make the common ending for 3rd person hearsay action,
>> biama.
>>
>>
>>
>> I notice the accent changes to the first syllable in the second case of
>> your example.  I wonder if that could be underlyingly a-aba in that case?
>> The first would be the ablauted version of ???he said it???, followed by either
>> the Old Man???s article ab?? or a ???hearsay??? particle as in OP.  One problem
>> with that would be that the ???hearsay??? am?? in OP shouldn???t cause a preceding
>> verb to ablaut.
>>
>>
>>
>> My $0.02.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Rory
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] *On Behalf Of
>> *David Kaufman
>> *Sent:* Thursday, February 20, 2014 1:30 PM
>> *To:* SIOUAN at LISTSERV.UNL.EDU
>> *Subject:* Question re: Dhegiha and other Siouan quotatives
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>>
>>
>> I have a question re: a curious structure in Kaw, and whether anything
>> like it occurs in other Dhegihan or even non-Dhegihan Siouan languages.
>>  The structure involves the articles akh?? and ab??, used for subjects in Kaw
>> and usually translated 'the', the first being roughly for
>> 'standing/sitting' and the other for 'moving/absent'.  However, in Kaw,
>> these subject articles also somehow seem to have become used as quotatives,
>> or 's/he said.'  Here is an example sentence with gloss:
>>
>>
>>
>> *Ic??kitanga  ab??, ???Any??xtaga-??dan,??? ??ba-dan,  nanst??be.*
>>
>> Old.Man   said   bite.me-then          said-then   kicked.him
>>
>> The Old Man said, ???Then bite me,??? and he kicked him.
>>
>>
>>
>> So ab??, which is normally used for 'moving' subjects and is usually
>> translated 'the', is now being used for 's/he said.'
>>
>>
>>
>> Any thoughts on this, esp. from other Dhegihan perspectives, or other
>> Siouan languages that might have some similar usage?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> David Kaufman
>>
>> Linguistic Anthropology PhD candidate, University of Kansas
>>
>> Director, Kaw Nation Language Program
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>   ????
>>
>>
>>
>

From david.rood at COLORADO.EDU  Sat Mar  1 18:57:15 2014
From: david.rood at COLORADO.EDU (ROOD DAVID S)
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 11:57:15 -0700
Subject: Question re: Dhegiha and other Siouan quotatives
In-Reply-To: <007201cf3539$645ce010$2d16a030$@org>
Message-ID: <SAT.1.MAR.2014.115715.0700.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

Jan, I am answering without looking things up, so be prepared for some 
mis-remembering.  I seem to recall that "s^i" 'command" requires object 
affixes on the embedded verb: 'I told him to help you' would be "onichiye 
was^i".  I thought that pattern was pretty common.  What about something 
like 'realize' as in 'I realized I was wrong' or 'I realized you were 
wrong"?

 	Best,
 	David

David S. Rood
Dept. of Linguistics
Univ. of Colorado
295 UCB
Boulder, CO 80309-0295
USA
rood at colorado.edu

On Sat, 1 Mar 2014, Jan Ullrich wrote:

>> Several people have noted (not sure whether published or not) that Lakota
> complements
>> to verbs that require same-subject for both verbs (e.g.
>> 'try') do not allow affixes on the first verb, while those which permit a
> change of subject (like 'want')
>> do require that both verbs be marked.
>
> I have been under the impression that there are only two Lakota verbs that
> require both verbs in a complex predicate to be conjugated. They are chin
> 'to want' and okihi 'to be able to'.
> If there is data pointing to other verbs that behave like this it would be
> useful to know.
>
> Jan
>


From dvkanth2010 at GMAIL.COM  Sat Mar  1 19:35:47 2014
From: dvkanth2010 at GMAIL.COM (David Kaufman)
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 13:35:47 -0600
Subject: Question re: Dhegiha and other Siouan quotatives
In-Reply-To: <000c01cf3564$94d60750$be8215f0$@com>
Message-ID: <SAT.1.MAR.2014.133547.0600.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

Kaw, at least in the attested data, doesn't seem to have a verb for "be
able to" either.  This concept seems to require the verb "miss" or "lack"
when the negative idea 'not be able to' is needed.  This is another
interesting question as regards comparative Siouan.  How do other Siouan
languages handle the concept "be able to" or "not be able to"?  Biloxi has
a verb xa for 'be able, ought, should' as well as a couple of particles to
represent this idea.

Dave

David Kaufman
Linguistic Anthropology PhD candidate, University of Kansas
Director, Kaw Nation Language Program


On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 9:40 AM, Sky Campbell <sky at legendreaders.com> wrote:

> Your mention of the Lakota term "okihi" has me very interested and also
> ties
> into these serial verbs.  Hamilton has in his "An Ioway Grammar" book on
> page 52:
>
> --------------begin Hamilton---------------
>
> This mood does not express power or ability to do an act, as its name might
> seem to imply. Ability expressed by can in English is not properly
> expressed
> by any one of the moods, but generally by the subjunctive and potential
> together; as,
>
> Ha-u e-ha-tu-ka-na-sk?, ha-u-hna-sku. If I willed it, I would do it.
> Literally: I do, if I will it, I may do it.
>
> --------------end Hamilton---------------
>
> Here Hamilton is referring to what he calls the "potential mood."  I'm
> curious about Lakota having the one word for "to be able" ("can") whereas
> Hamilton says it isn't that simple in Ioway.  But on the subject of serial
> verbs, the above shows 3 verbs (2 of them being the same):
>
> ha'u - I do/work/make/create
>
> ihaduganasge - if I willed it (I've seen this also as "ihadugra" (minus the
> -nasge))
>
> ha'uhnasgu - I may do it (here is the same verb "ha'u" with a few extra
> suffixes to change the meaning a bit)
>
> So here again we have 3 verbs all conjugated.  I wasn't sure I'd find one
> beyond something along the lines of bring/take something somewhere.  But
> the
> mention of "to be able" reminded me of Hamilton's above phrase.
>
>
> Sky
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] On Behalf Of Jan
> Ullrich
> Sent: Saturday, March 1, 2014 4:31 AM
> To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
> Subject: Re: Question re: Dhegiha and other Siouan quotatives
>
> > Several people have noted (not sure whether published or not) that
> > Lakota
> complements
> > to verbs that require same-subject for both verbs (e.g.
> > 'try') do not allow affixes on the first verb, while those which
> > permit a
> change of subject (like 'want')
> > do require that both verbs be marked.
>
> I have been under the impression that there are only two Lakota verbs that
> require both verbs in a complex predicate to be conjugated. They are chin
> 'to want' and okihi 'to be able to'.
> If there is data pointing to other verbs that behave like this it would be
> useful to know.
>
> Jan
>
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From Armik.Mirzayan at USD.EDU  Sat Mar  1 21:48:42 2014
From: Armik.Mirzayan at USD.EDU (Mirzayan, Armik)
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 15:48:42 -0600
Subject: Question re: Dhegiha and other Siouan quotatives
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.64.1403011022500.8976@spot.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <SAT.1.MAR.2014.154842.0600.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

David,

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "requires object affixes on the embedded verb". I will try to  fill in a few details here, the way I understand it,  and hopefully these are correct ....

The auxiliary verb ?? takes 2 participants, a subject and an object (one person doing the telling, and the other being told to do thing in the preceding verb), as in:

  T?ab?k?l  ma??pi.     "They asked/told me to play ball"
  H??hu?   wi?h???ipi    "We asked/told them to do that." 
  Oy?spe ni??.         "He asked/told you to catch it"

The first verb (lower, embedded ... or whatever one wants to call it) can be intransitive or transitive.  If it that first verb is transitive and you need to put an object affix on it, then yes, as you say, that object affix will go on the first verb.

   ?ni?iye wa??.     "I asked him to help you."


You can have object affixes (different objects) on both the first verb and ??, as in:

  Ow?chayuspe ma??.     "She asked me to catch them."



For your example of "realize", I am thinking that I would use something like abl?zA (?). The sentence structure for this verb would be different from ?? however.  With abl?zA I would probably use a complementizer article type thing, as in these sentences:


  Yagl??na ki? aw?bleze.      "I realize that you made an error".

  H? wa?t? ki? aw?bleze.      "I realize that that's good."


You can also use  "?ha" with abl?zA, as in:

   Wi?h?k?e ?ni ?ha aw?bleze.    "I realized that he was not truthful."

...


-Armik
-----------------------------------------
Armik Mirzayan - Languages and Linguistics
The University of South Dakota
414 E. Clark St., Vermillion, SD, USA 57069
Armik.Mirzayan at usd.edu
-----------------------------------------


________________________________________
From: Siouan Linguistics [SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] On Behalf Of ROOD DAVID S [david.rood at COLORADO.EDU]
Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2014 12:57 PM
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
Subject: Re: Question re: Dhegiha and other Siouan quotatives

Jan, I am answering without looking things up, so be prepared for some
mis-remembering.  I seem to recall that "s^i" 'command" requires object
affixes on the embedded verb: 'I told him to help you' would be "onichiye
was^i".  I thought that pattern was pretty common.  What about something
like 'realize' as in 'I realized I was wrong' or 'I realized you were
wrong"?

        Best,
        David

David S. Rood
Dept. of Linguistics
Univ. of Colorado
295 UCB
Boulder, CO 80309-0295
USA
rood at colorado.edu

On Sat, 1 Mar 2014, Jan Ullrich wrote:

>> Several people have noted (not sure whether published or not) that Lakota
> complements
>> to verbs that require same-subject for both verbs (e.g.
>> 'try') do not allow affixes on the first verb, while those which permit a
> change of subject (like 'want')
>> do require that both verbs be marked.
>
> I have been under the impression that there are only two Lakota verbs that
> require both verbs in a complex predicate to be conjugated. They are chin
> 'to want' and okihi 'to be able to'.
> If there is data pointing to other verbs that behave like this it would be
> useful to know.
>
> Jan
>


From Armik.Mirzayan at USD.EDU  Sat Mar  1 21:55:21 2014
From: Armik.Mirzayan at USD.EDU (Mirzayan, Armik)
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 15:55:21 -0600
Subject: Question re: Dhegiha and other Siouan quotatives
In-Reply-To: <2E8C78A825FCF84D9B27960E9F4E9107B28AA350E1@USD-EXMB01.usd.local>
Message-ID: <SAT.1.MAR.2014.155521.0600.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

Sent that too fast .... A typing error in the last example:

>  You can also use  "?ha" with abl?zA, as in:
>    Wi?h?k?e ?ni ?ha aw?bleze.    "I realized that he was not truthful."

It should be:    Wi??k?e ?ni ?ha aw?bleze.


-Armik
-----------------------------------------
Armik Mirzayan - Languages and Linguistics
The University of South Dakota
414 E. Clark St., Vermillion, SD, USA 57069
Armik.Mirzayan at usd.edu
-----------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------
Armik Mirzayan, Lakota Linguistics
Department of Languages, Linguistics, and Philosophy
The University of South Dakota
414 E. Clark St.
Vermillion SD 57069
Armik.Mirzayan at usd.edu
Phone:  605-677-3159
-----------------------------------------



________________________________________
From: Siouan Linguistics [SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] On Behalf Of ROOD DAVID S [david.rood at COLORADO.EDU]
Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2014 12:57 PM
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
Subject: Re: Question re: Dhegiha and other Siouan quotatives

Jan, I am answering without looking things up, so be prepared for some
mis-remembering.  I seem to recall that "s^i" 'command" requires object
affixes on the embedded verb: 'I told him to help you' would be "onichiye
was^i".  I thought that pattern was pretty common.  What about something
like 'realize' as in 'I realized I was wrong' or 'I realized you were
wrong"?

        Best,
        David

David S. Rood
Dept. of Linguistics
Univ. of Colorado
295 UCB
Boulder, CO 80309-0295
USA
rood at colorado.edu

On Sat, 1 Mar 2014, Jan Ullrich wrote:

>> Several people have noted (not sure whether published or not) that Lakota
> complements
>> to verbs that require same-subject for both verbs (e.g.
>> 'try') do not allow affixes on the first verb, while those which permit a
> change of subject (like 'want')
>> do require that both verbs be marked.
>
> I have been under the impression that there are only two Lakota verbs that
> require both verbs in a complex predicate to be conjugated. They are chin
> 'to want' and okihi 'to be able to'.
> If there is data pointing to other verbs that behave like this it would be
> useful to know.
>
> Jan
>


From dvkanth2010 at GMAIL.COM  Sun Mar  2 03:11:02 2014
From: dvkanth2010 at GMAIL.COM (David Kaufman)
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 21:11:02 -0600
Subject: Bob Rankin obituary
Message-ID: <SAT.1.MAR.2014.211102.0600.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

Attached is the obituary that appeared today for Bob.  Please let me know
if it doesn't come out okay.

Dave

David Kaufman
Linguistic Anthropology PhD candidate, University of Kansas
Director, Kaw Nation Language Program
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From saponi360 at YAHOO.COM  Sun Mar  2 03:56:55 2014
From: saponi360 at YAHOO.COM (Scott Collins)
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 19:56:55 -0800
Subject: Bob Rankin obituary
In-Reply-To: <CAKapKjQNjadDsMVy_DB4n6Pgmfa_gtXjVxSczE_wMzESKKGkCw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SAT.1.MAR.2014.195655.0800.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

Thank you.
?
Scott P. Collins
----------------------------------------------------------------------
WE ARE THE ONES WE HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR


Evil Is An Outer Manifestation Of An Inner Struggle


?Men and women become accomplices to those evils they fail to oppose.?


"The greater the denial the greater the awakening."


________________________________
 From: David Kaufman <dvkanth2010 at GMAIL.COM>
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu 
Sent: Saturday, March 1, 2014 9:11 PM
Subject: Bob Rankin obituary
 


Attached is the obituary that appeared today for Bob.? Please let me know if it doesn't come out okay.

Dave


David Kaufman
Linguistic Anthropology PhD candidate,?University of Kansas
Director, Kaw Nation Language Program
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From ishna00 at HOTMAIL.COM  Tue Mar  4 11:19:34 2014
From: ishna00 at HOTMAIL.COM (Charles Thode)
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2014 05:19:34 -0600
Subject: Bob Rankin obituary
In-Reply-To: <1393732615.61237.YahooMailNeo@web181303.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.4.MAR.2014.051934.0600.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

Thanks for sending this!

Chuck

Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 19:56:55 -0800
From: saponi360 at YAHOO.COM
Subject: Re: Bob Rankin obituary
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu

Thank you. Scott P. Collins
----------------------------------------------------------------------
WE ARE THE ONES WE HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR

Evil Is An Outer Manifestation Of An Inner Struggle

?Men and women become accomplices to those evils they fail to oppose.?

"The greater the denial the greater the awakening."
        From: David Kaufman <dvkanth2010 at GMAIL.COM>
 To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu 
 Sent: Saturday, March 1, 2014 9:11 PM
 Subject: Bob Rankin obituary
   

Attached is the obituary that appeared today for Bob.  Please let me know if it doesn't come out okay.

Dave
David Kaufman
Linguistic Anthropology PhD candidate, University of Kansas
Director, Kaw Nation Language Program




     		 	   		  
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From jekoontz at MSN.COM  Thu Mar  6 03:00:05 2014
From: jekoontz at MSN.COM (John Koontz)
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 20:00:05 -0700
Subject: [Possible SPAM]  Re: Aho!
In-Reply-To: <775338d5a26f49cf82cbacea9430d6a1@BLUPR04MB819.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <WED.5.MAR.2014.200005.0700.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

I would guess this pair contrasts something analogous to Omaha-Ponca 'to say' vs. 'to say to'.   The 'say' stems are highly irregular in Omaha-Ponca like most Siouan, but underlyingly they are something like e=...he vs. e=gi=...he.   So the first persons are ehe 'I said it' (from something like Proto-Dhegiha *e=phe) vs. egiphe 'I said (it) to him'.  The third persons are a=i 'they said' vs. ega=i 'they said to him'.   I've reconstructed the  plural from memory of the logic of the system.  What I remember is the unpluralized from ege (e=g(i)...(h)e).   The gi element is the dative marker of course and the weird thing about (OP) 'say' is that that comes *before* the pronoun.   When gi is followed by the root (h)e it contracts with it.   I'm not sure the root is really -he in the third person.   The first and second persons are clearly built on e=(gi)=...he, but the inclusive is usually from another verb entirely, and the third person behaves like e by itself in the simple stem and e=g(i)=...e in the dative.   The initial e= is presumably an incorporated e 'the aforesaid'.   And, of course, this is the quoting verb that follows a quotation.   There's a form with initial ga 'yonder' that is used preceding a quotation.   The third person is  essentially always seen as a=(nothing) or a=i or a=bi with the plural-proximate marker following e and conditioning the a-grade of the stem.  (So you almost never get a singular looking form, and if you did it would be just e, and so hard to know from a demonstrative e.)   The =(nothing) form of the plural-proximate  is current now when no other particle follows.  Dorsey always has a=i or a=bi (the latter when the quotation is itself quoted in some way).   

Anyway, making allowances, I hope, for my poor grasp of IO, I make these

e=wa-a naha 'the one who says something'
vs. e=wa-g(i)-a naha  'the one who says (something) to someone'

I hope I correctly remember naha as an article of some sort.  If not ...

When you add a dative to something then the object is the dative object and the "direct object" sort of falls out of the agreement pattern.  Sometimes it hangs around in the sentence as a noun (or quotation) without governing anything in the verb.   What the relationalists called a chomeur.  
 
I may have found a clue for ?ka.?  Dorsey has the term:
 
e-wa-na-ha ? the speaker; the one speaking
 
Then he has the term:
 
e wa-ka-na-ha ? the one who is meant; the person addressed
 
I?m not sure how (or even if) this is related to the ?ka? I am asking about but I?m trying to look at it in different ways to see if it fits somehow.
 

Sky Campbell, B. A.
Language Director
Otoe-Missouria Tribe
580-723-4466 ext. 111
sky at omtribe.org

 
 		 	   		  
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From jekoontz at MSN.COM  Thu Mar  6 03:33:11 2014
From: jekoontz at MSN.COM (John Koontz)
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 20:33:11 -0700
Subject: [Possible SPAM]  Re: Aho!
In-Reply-To: <BLU184-W769B3B53230B7AA4A0FF5CC1880@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <WED.5.MAR.2014.203311.0700.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

I've been sorting through some more of this interesting stuff!   

For what it's worth, OP e=..aN 'to do something' and e=gi=...aN 'to do (something) like someone/thing'  parallel the 'say' verbs in structure.    So their first persons are emaN and egimaN.   The first persons are eaN and egaN.  I do think I recall that the corresponding IO forms have k?uN, not gaN.   Off hand, I don't know of an OP parallel stem with the u-locative prefix.   

How do you explain the aN in kaNre instead of kare?   u...k?uN is 'give'?  

====
And in keeping with the idea that perhaps this might be an older thing, I did a quick run through Merrill's First
Ioway Reading Book and in his prayer (Lesson 12, page 13), he has the line:
 
Nl-ce pe of-kon-kl-ra (N?nje pi uk'?ka
re) - Give me a good heart.
 
(I
 wonder with the possible nasal "f" that Merrill put in there if it is 
supposed to be a contraction of "uh?nk'?" to become "?nk'?" to say "give
me".)
 
So
 here we have another use of "ka" from a source other than Hamilton.  I 
haven't gone through his hymns yet though.  But no clues so far as
I can tell.  However I am noticing "me" being in a few of these but it 
may just be a coincidence.
 
And
 on the off chance that this "ka" might be something that means plural 
(maybe an alternate way to end commands to command more than one person
besides using -wi), I remembered a very odd term from Maximilian's word 
list where he had:
 
guj-n
- we alone
 
To
 date, I have never seen the prefix "gu-" to mean "we" anywhere else.  
And it may not be connected in any way to the "ka/ga" we are talking
about but I thought I'd put it out there.
 
Sky
 		 	   		   		 	   		  
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From jekoontz at MSN.COM  Thu Mar  6 03:51:41 2014
From: jekoontz at MSN.COM (John Koontz)
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 20:51:41 -0700
Subject: Question re: Omaha-Ponca
In-Reply-To: <CAKapKjTFC=0uf9-c4tPAsSuu6C5i4Q916vXLe6a+rCK41mirKg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <WED.5.MAR.2014.205141.0700.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

As far as I recall, the dhaN article is present in OP, but not in the rest of Dhegiha.  But the others do have the various compounds of this with motion verbs and causatives etc. as verbs of placement and doing suddenly.  inaN, inaNnaN, etc.  

Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2014 15:21:03 -0600
From: dvkanth2010 at GMAIL.COM
Subject: Question re: Omaha-Ponca
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu

Hi all,
I'm wondering if anyone can tell me how the article ?? is actually used in OP.  According to the Omaha texts, it seems to be used often after body parts, but I notice it is also used for other non-body part nouns as well, which JOD sometimes glosses as 'object'.  I'm particularly curious because Biloxi sometimes uses the suffix -y? (which would correlate with ??) after some body part terms as well. I don't see anything similar being used in Kaw or Osage, unless I'm missing something .

Thanks.
DaveDavid KaufmanLinguistic Anthropology PhD candidate, University of Kansas
Director, Kaw Nation Language Program


 		 	   		  
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From jekoontz at MSN.COM  Thu Mar  6 02:41:05 2014
From: jekoontz at MSN.COM (John Koontz)
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 19:41:05 -0700
Subject: Aho!  (-ka in IO imperative forms)
In-Reply-To: <775338d5a26f49cf82cbacea9430d6a1@BLUPR04MB819.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <WED.5.MAR.2014.194105.0700.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

FWIW, the Omaha-Ponca imperative is ga (male) ~ a (female).   It occurs with the e-grade of ablaut.  

wadhathe ga hau  'eat!'   

At least for Dorsey the Otoe and Omaha-Ponca sources were intermarried to some extent.   Hamilton worked with both communities, though I thought it was at different locations.   Jimm would know in detail!   

Second is that the ending imperative ?re? may actually be a contraction of an older form ?kare/gare? and it has just stopped being used.  That one is just a random guess LOL.
 ...What do you think?
 
Sky Campbell, B. A.
Language Director
Otoe-Missouria Tribe
580-723-4466 ext. 111
sky at omtribe.org
 		 	   		  
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From sky at LEGENDREADERS.COM  Thu Mar  6 04:30:11 2014
From: sky at LEGENDREADERS.COM (Sky Campbell)
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 22:30:11 -0600
Subject: [Possible SPAM]  Re: Aho!
In-Reply-To: <BLU184-W769B3B53230B7AA4A0FF5CC1880@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <WED.5.MAR.2014.223011.0600.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

Yes, "naha" is an article going along the lines of "the", "that which", "the
one who", etc.

 

You've given me a lot to think about and a lot of terminology that I'll have
to wrap my head around since I'm not familiar with it.

 

My assistants and I spent over 3 hours today tracking down all the instances
of Merrill and Hamilton's use of this -ga/-ka and mapped them to a grid on a
large dry-erase board in an effort to try to find some kind of common
element among all of them.  Unfortunately we had no luck.  We tried to think
of everything we could think of when it came to those verbs.  Were they
transitive or intransitive?  Animate or inanimate objects?  Singular or
plural?  Was the object "known" to the speaker (meaning was the speaker
referring to something specific...sort of along the lines of the idea of
"that" I mentioned earlier)?  Of course we know that we aren't looking for
every possible criteria since there are many we don't know about (like some
of the ideas you mentioned).

 

I've mentioned several of our theories such as "that", "now", "in like
manner", etc.  But while we were plugging away I was perusing Dorsey's
vocabulary slips and found this:

 

k'a (masc) (adverb) - of action in past time, not continuing into the
present

 

And the example he gives is:

 

Swagaxe k'a - you did write then (but you do not write now)

 

So in this context, I wonder if perhaps it could be along the lines of (to
use an example from before) "Look at the snake" perhaps with the idea that
you were looking at the snake before but aren't now and I want you to do so
again.  This may not be correct though since Dorsey mentions "see also" and
has the endings "ke", "ki", etc. so this may represent the end of a
statement and not simply an adverb that can be used where needed.

 

Dorsey also has a rather enigmatic term "kare" (or perhaps "k'are") where he
mentions "It seems to imply that the thought or desire was not gratified"
but he doesn't just list this term with that explanation but rather just
uses it with examples such as:

 

Ji kare h?rawi - we thought that he would have come hither (but he did not
come)

 

I'm noting that this is after the verb that they want to attach this to
which matches the placement of the enigmatic -ga/-ka.  So along these lines,
perhaps it could be "Look at the snake" with the idea of I wanted you to
look at the snake but you didn't so I am requesting/commanding again since
you didn't do it before.

 

Yet another couple theories to add to this :).

 

Sky

 

From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] On Behalf Of John
Koontz
Sent: Wednesday, March 5, 2014 9:00 PM
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
Subject: Re: [Possible SPAM] Re: Aho!

 

I would guess this pair contrasts something analogous to Omaha-Ponca 'to
say' vs. 'to say to'.   The 'say' stems are highly irregular in Omaha-Ponca
like most Siouan, but underlyingly they are something like e=...he vs.
e=gi=...he.   So the first persons are ehe 'I said it' (from something like
Proto-Dhegiha *e=phe) vs. egiphe 'I said (it) to him'.  The third persons
are a=i 'they said' vs. ega=i 'they said to him'.   I've reconstructed the
plural from memory of the logic of the system.  What I remember is the
unpluralized from ege (e=g(i)...(h)e).   The gi element is the dative marker
of course and the weird thing about (OP) 'say' is that that comes *before*
the pronoun.   When gi is followed by the root (h)e it contracts with it.
I'm not sure the root is really -he in the third person.   The first and
second persons are clearly built on e=(gi)=...he, but the inclusive is
usually from another verb entirely, and the third person behaves like e by
itself in the simple stem and e=g(i)=...e in the dative.   The initial e= is
presumably an incorporated e 'the aforesaid'.   And, of course, this is the
quoting verb that follows a quotation.   There's a form with initial ga
'yonder' that is used preceding a quotation.   The third person is
essentially always seen as a=(nothing) or a=i or a=bi with the
plural-proximate marker following e and conditioning the a-grade of the
stem.  (So you almost never get a singular looking form, and if you did it
would be just e, and so hard to know from a demonstrative e.)   The
=(nothing) form of the plural-proximate  is current now when no other
particle follows.  Dorsey always has a=i or a=bi (the latter when the
quotation is itself quoted in some way).   

Anyway, making allowances, I hope, for my poor grasp of IO, I make these

e=wa-a naha 'the one who says something'
vs. e=wa-g(i)-a naha  'the one who says (something) to someone'

I hope I correctly remember naha as an article of some sort.  If not ...

When you add a dative to something then the object is the dative object and
the "direct object" sort of falls out of the agreement pattern.  Sometimes
it hangs around in the sentence as a noun (or quotation) without governing
anything in the verb.   What the relationalists called a chomeur.  

  _____  

 

I may have found a clue for ?ka.?  Dorsey has the term:

 

e-wa-na-ha ? the speaker; the one speaking

 

Then he has the term:

 

e wa-ka-na-ha ? the one who is meant; the person addressed

 

I?m not sure how (or even if) this is related to the ?ka? I am asking about
but I?m trying to look at it in different ways to see if it fits somehow.

 

Sky Campbell, B. A.

Language Director

Otoe-Missouria Tribe

580-723-4466 ext. 111

sky at omtribe.org

 

 

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From jekoontz at MSN.COM  Thu Mar  6 10:15:35 2014
From: jekoontz at MSN.COM (John Koontz)
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2014 03:15:35 -0700
Subject: Aho! (IO -ka in Imperatives)
In-Reply-To: <001501cf38f4$c38988e0$4a9c9aa0$@com>
Message-ID: <THU.6.MAR.2014.031535.0700.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

In k'a what is '?  If it is aspiration (opening quote) this sounds a little like the ubiquitous the (th = aspirate) in OP.  It actually alternates with the inanimate articles (the ~ khe ~ dhaN ~ ge) and is associated with something like pastness.   The alternants indicate something about the "shape" of the action, as they indicate the shape of the noun when they are inanimate articles.  (And khe 'long, lying' occurs with animate things like snakes.)  
 
I am pretty sure that the sense of these forms in OP is not pastness per se but 'deducibility'.  As a set they indicate that the action is deduced to have occurred (in the shape indicated).  This contrasts with the ama particle that occurs with reported things (and conditions any preceding plural-proximate marker to be bi instead of I).   
 
The "proximate" term is one I have borrowed from Algonquian usage and is not very suitable.  The general idea is that the action can be observed to occur and takes place under the independent volition of the third person singular subject.  And this is (for some reason) marked with a plural marker on the third person subject.  Only Dhegiha has this pattern.  But it keeps coming up because I need to explain that a=i is 'he (proximate) said' in most places, even though it looks like 'they said'.  There is a non-proximate, or obviative e 'he said', but it is vanishingly rare in texts.   The a=i is also 'they said', of course.   (The IO analogs of e and a=i are e and a=wi.)
 
We have to be a little careful with associating ga's.   Siouan languages are full of forms that look the same and mean something different.   In OP ga is the masculine imperative, the "yonder" demonstrative, and the "by striking" instrumental besides the places where it turns up superficially because gi has contracted with a following a.   There's also places where aN 'we' is followed by the locative prefix a- 'on' producing aNga-.   From your examples I think you are safe in associating the cases of kare where there is an imperative meaning.   
 
If you have kare alternating indeterminately with re and in more modern examples completely replaced by re, maybe you just have a case of a historical change in usage observed in progress?   I can think of all kinds of things that are somewhat irregular in OP and Da because they are changing and are controlled by the formulas the speaker has heard various others use, by their sense of style as it applies in a specific utterance, and so on.  
 
Because there is an male imperative particle ga in OP it is worth wondering if =ka=re originally marked male imperatives in IO.   If it works at all like OP (where the female imperative is =a), I would expect re alone to be the female imperative and to condition the a-grade of preceding ablauting e.  In other words, the female imperative would be =a=re, and that initial a would replace any preceding e.  It might occasionally show up as an extra element if the preceding vowel wasn't e.  So in OP =a=di 'in'  changes preceding e to a, ppahe ~ ppahadi, and sometimes the a appears in forms like ppamu ~ ppamuadi, tti ~ ttiadi, or sometimes you just get =di and sometimes a preceding e doesn't change either.  These last, simpler patterns are, of course, the modern ones.  
 
It looks like Whitman says the imperative does condition e > a.   So, for what it's worth, that pattern is consistent.   Conceivably the IO imperative in the early 1800 was something like the OP one, but with the additional element =re following it.   The OP imperative can be extended (for male speakers anyway) by =hau, which is essentially the declarative.   Sort of like "yep!" at the end of a sentence, maybe.   And sort of like the =re in IO, except that the =re is always there are ends up surviving as the only element visible.   
 
As far as female speech forms replacing male speech forms, this is actually something that can happen.  Or the reverse.   And apart from apparently straight up changes like that, it is also possible that the difference between the two forms was actually something like a strong suggestion (=ka=re) vs. a milder, politer one (=a=re) and men are more culturally enabled to make strong suggestions.   However, fashions in these things change continually.   In general the sentence final particles are highly unstable in Siouan languages, and even closely related languages (or the same language at different periods) have different systems.   
 
It was suggested that ka might be 'yon'.   We could even guess that ka (or ga) in an imperative might actually be historically the ga demonstrative, used as an imperative particle.  Sort of "eat, that, do it!"   I'm kind of reminded of the use of ese in Chicano Spanish, though I think that is more of a male declarative.   I've never really figured it out!    
 
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 22:30:11 -0600
From: sky at LEGENDREADERS.COM
Subject: Re: [Possible SPAM]  Re: Aho!
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu

Yes, "naha" is an article going along the lines of "the", "that which", "the one who", etc. You've given me a lot to think about and a lot of terminology that I'll have to wrap my head around since I'm not familiar with it. My assistants and I spent over 3 hours today tracking down all the instances of Merrill and Hamilton's use of this -ga/-ka and mapped them to a grid on a large dry-erase board in an effort to try to find some kind of common element among all of them.  Unfortunately we had no luck.  We tried to think of everything we could think of when it came to those verbs.  Were they transitive or intransitive?  Animate or inanimate objects?  Singular or plural?  Was the object "known" to the speaker (meaning was the speaker referring to something specific...sort of along the lines of the idea of "that" I mentioned earlier)?  Of course we know that we aren't looking for every possible criteria since there are many we don't know about (like some of the ideas you mentioned). I've mentioned several of our theories such as "that", "now", "in like manner", etc.  But while we were plugging away I was perusing Dorsey's vocabulary slips and found this: k'a (masc) (adverb) - of action in past time, not continuing into the present And the example he gives is: Swagaxe k'a - you did write then (but you do not write now) So in this context, I wonder if perhaps it could be along the lines of (to use an example from before) "Look at the snake" perhaps with the idea that you were looking at the snake before but aren't now and I want you to do so again.  This may not be correct though since Dorsey mentions "see also" and has the endings "ke", "ki", etc. so this may represent the end of a statement and not simply an adverb that can be used where needed. Dorsey also has a rather enigmatic term "kare" (or perhaps "k'are") where he mentions "It seems to imply that the thought or desire was not gratified" but he doesn't just list this term with that explanation but rather just uses it with examples such as: Ji kare h?rawi - we thought that he would have come hither (but he did not come) I'm noting that this is after the verb that they want to attach this to which matches the placement of the enigmatic -ga/-ka.  So along these lines, perhaps it could be "Look at the snake" with the idea of I wanted you to look at the snake but you didn't so I am requesting/commanding again since you didn't do it before. Yet another couple theories to add to this :). Sky From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] On Behalf Of John Koontz
Sent: Wednesday, March 5, 2014 9:00 PM
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
Subject: Re: [Possible SPAM] Re: Aho! I would guess this pair contrasts something analogous to Omaha-Ponca 'to say' vs. 'to say to'.   The 'say' stems are highly irregular in Omaha-Ponca like most Siouan, but underlyingly they are something like e=...he vs. e=gi=...he.   So the first persons are ehe 'I said it' (from something like Proto-Dhegiha *e=phe) vs. egiphe 'I said (it) to him'.  The third persons are a=i 'they said' vs. ega=i 'they said to him'.   I've reconstructed the  plural from memory of the logic of the system.  What I remember is the unpluralized from ege (e=g(i)...(h)e).   The gi element is the dative marker of course and the weird thing about (OP) 'say' is that that comes *before* the pronoun.   When gi is followed by the root (h)e it contracts with it.   I'm not sure the root is really -he in the third person.   The first and second persons are clearly built on e=(gi)=...he, but the inclusive is usually from another verb entirely, and the third person behaves like e by itself in the simple stem and e=g(i)=...e in the dative.   The initial e= is presumably an incorporated e 'the aforesaid'.   And, of course, this is the quoting verb that follows a quotation.   There's a form with initial ga 'yonder' that is used preceding a quotation.   The third person is  essentially always seen as a=(nothing) or a=i or a=bi with the plural-proximate marker following e and conditioning the a-grade of the stem.  (So you almost never get a singular looking form, and if you did it would be just e, and so hard to know from a demonstrative e.)   The =(nothing) form of the plural-proximate  is current now when no other particle follows.  Dorsey always has a=i or a=bi (the latter when the quotation is itself quoted in some way).   

Anyway, making allowances, I hope, for my poor grasp of IO, I make these

e=wa-a naha 'the one who says something'
vs. e=wa-g(i)-a naha  'the one who says (something) to someone'

I hope I correctly remember naha as an article of some sort.  If not ...

When you add a dative to something then the object is the dative object and the "direct object" sort of falls out of the agreement pattern.  Sometimes it hangs around in the sentence as a noun (or quotation) without governing anything in the verb.   What the relationalists called a chomeur.   I may have found a clue for "ka."  Dorsey has the term: e-wa-na-ha - the speaker; the one speaking Then he has the term: e wa-ka-na-ha - the one who is meant; the person addressed I'm not sure how (or even if) this is related to the "ka" I am asking about but I'm trying to look at it in different ways to see if it fits somehow. Sky Campbell, B. A.Language DirectorOtoe-Missouria Tribe580-723-4466 ext. 111sky at omtribe.org   		 	   		  
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From jekoontz at MSN.COM  Thu Mar  6 19:39:11 2014
From: jekoontz at MSN.COM (John Koontz)
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2014 12:39:11 -0700
Subject: Aho!  (-ka in IO imperative forms)
In-Reply-To: <BLU184-W403CD17407AB94488ABA59C1880@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <THU.6.MAR.2014.123911.0700.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

Oops.  The OP imperatives occur with the a-grade of the ablaut vowel.  
 
dhatha'=a 'eat (woman speaking)!'
daNba'=ga 'see (man speaking)!'
 
(Thanks for catching this, Rory!)
 
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 19:41:05 -0700
From: jekoontz at MSN.COM
Subject: Re: Aho!  (-ka in IO imperative forms)
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu




FWIW, the Omaha-Ponca imperative is ga (male) ~ a (female).   It occurs with the e-grade of ablaut.  

wadhathe ga hau  'eat!'   

At least for Dorsey the Otoe and Omaha-Ponca sources were intermarried to some extent.   Hamilton worked with both communities, though I thought it was at different locations.   Jimm would know in detail!   

Second is that the ending imperative ?re? may actually be a contraction of an older form ?kare/gare? and it has just stopped being used.  That one is just a random guess LOL.
 ...What do you think?
 
Sky Campbell, B. A.
Language Director
Otoe-Missouria Tribe
580-723-4466 ext. 111
sky at omtribe.org
 		 	   		   		 	   		  
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From mary.marino at USASK.CA  Fri Mar  7 17:48:50 2014
From: mary.marino at USASK.CA (Mary C Marino)
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2014 11:48:50 -0600
Subject: Sad news
In-Reply-To: <CAKapKjQ8rnGAdGvb983v+C9UqvBm46ENVLTbB60_LMaRdRBsqg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.7.MAR.2014.114850.0600.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

I just got back from a 2-week absence and found this message -- I am 
profoundly sorry to hear this.  Bob was the best.  My condolences to 
Carolyn, and to all of you who will miss him as much as I will.

Mary
On 24/02/2014 2:01 PM, David Kaufman wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> It is with much sadness that I let you know that Dr. Robert Rankin has 
> passed away.  I don't have any further details at this time, but I can 
> pass on more info once I know more.  The Kaw Nation was just contacted 
> within the last couple of hours about his passing.
>
> I am extremely grateful that I got to visit Bob a couple of weeks ago.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Dave
>
> David Kaufman
> Linguistic Anthropology PhD candidate, University of Kansas
> Director, Kaw Nation Language Program

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From jgoodtracks at GMAIL.COM  Thu Mar 13 13:08:57 2014
From: jgoodtracks at GMAIL.COM (Jimm Goodtracks)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2014 08:08:57 -0500
Subject: Fw: MARK
Message-ID: <THU.13.MAR.2014.080857.0500.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>



From: BARBARA SALVATORE 
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2014 12:57 AM
To: Catherine Rudin ; iren.hartmann at gmail.com ; jgoodtracks at gmail.com ; rankin at ku.edu ; rlarson1 at unl.edu 
Cc: linguist at email.arizona.edu ; vstabler at esu1.org ; dvkanth2010 at gmail.com ; jekoontz at msn.com ; greer-j at mssu.edu ; jtmcbri at ostatemail.okstate.edu 
Subject: Re: MARK

PLEASE FIND UPDATES ON MARK, and the Appreciation Dance the Elders and Students have planned for him. ALL DETAILS follow. Thank you very much for your time and consideration.
Barbara
APPRECIATION DANCE FOR MARK WAKUNI-SWETLAND, MARCH 30th , Indian Center, Lincoln


THANK YOU FOR FOLLOWING UP MARGARET! I AM JUST SENDING THIS OUT TO EVERYONE TODAY! your timing is excellent :)
March 13, 2014
Hello to friends and students of WagOnze Uthixide, Professor Mark Awakuni-Swetland.
In February, I visited with him at his home with MiSebe (Arlene Walker) and he was in very good spirits. Of course he spent a lot of time talking about the UmoNhoN language and quizzing us, and correcting us, and telling us how important it was to learn the UmoNhoN alphabet and remember how to spell things so that we could be good teachers and pass it on. He gave us watermelon rind pickles that he and his sister in law had canned the day before. But he could not see our faces or the computer screen, as his vision is very blurry and he gets headaches. Later that weekend we were all at the Gourd dance and Hand-games at the Lincoln Indian Center and this is what he publicly shared:
He stood to tell us: ?the leukemia has flared up, and travelled up my spinal fluid into my brain. Which is why when Donna asked me questions and I gave her no answers, or incoherent, really strange ones, she started to suspect something. The doctors here in Lincoln found carotid arteries, but sent me to my doctors in Omaha for the cancer, and they found it there in my spine. I am undergoing treatments.
The Western doctors have told me to get my affairs in order. And my Indian doctor tells me there is NO doom and gloom around me and that I still have work to do on this earth that is undone. So I wanted to say that much.?
He excused himself to go home to rest and take medicines.
Later, when they drew the raffle ticket for the hand-made star quilt, Mark?s sister-in law won it! 
Afterwards, our elder speakers talked together and announced that they want to host an Appreciation Gourd Dance and Hand-Games to honor Mark. They wanted me to get in touch with all the students that I know.

Donna and her sister want to thank everyone for planning this, and they are very grateful.
They are going to be organizing food and meal plans, confirm the hosts etc. The Dance will be held on Sunday, March 30th. 

They would like if anyone who can, to come and help with planning on Sunday. 
PLEASE CONTACT ARLENE WALKER (MiSebe) by phone or text (402)314-6482

To reply to this email, do not hit REPLY ALL 
To reply to me, email  bighorsemail at yahoo.com  (Barbara)
or you can message Arlene Walker or Barbara Salvatore on facebook 
PLEASE Do NOT post this to facebook walls while we are still planning
A flyer will be posted to facebook when it is ready
Please tell / bring any friends or family members that would like to help and show their appreciation.
ATTACHED IS A FULL LIST OF WHAT IS NEEDED. CASH DONATIONS ACCEPTED AS WELL. SEE DETAILS BELOW!
WagOnze Uthixide has been fighting this leukemia a long time. He has also studied, taught and been dedicated to the Siouan languages, the Omaha, and to his students with his heavy load of work and projects. It is our time to give back, and to thank him for his generosity and all that he has shared. 
Indian Center, 1100 Military Road, Lincoln. (402) 438-5231) 
I hope you can join us!
WibthahoN!
Barbara Salvatore
Omaha Language Class/ UNL 2011- 2012   
Ponca Language Educator ? Ponca Tribe of Nebraska
bighorsemail at yahoo.com /(607)-287-0327
PO BOX 414, Verdigre,NE 68783

IN LINCOLN - PLEASE CONTACT ARLENE WALKER (MiSebe) by phone 
or text (402)314-6482 (she likes texts )
or
Indian Center, 1100 Military Road, Lincoln 
(402) 438-5231) 

APPRECIATION DANCE FOR MARK WAKUNI-SWETLAND, MARCH 30th , Indian Center, Lincoln

NEEDED:
TO PURCHASE
Coffee ? large containers ground coffee (to serve ongoing throughout the event)
5 large jugs Juice
Fried Chicken ? 3 boxes
Penny Candy, lollipops, snack size bars ? for putting round the drum for kids
PAPER GOODS-
Plates
Soup bowls
Cups
Spoons
Forks
Bull Durham Tobacco

TO MAKE ? VOLUNTEERS NEEDED- To make these dishes 
(make at home and bring in your own serving pots, dishes or disposable trays)
LARGE pot Vegetable soup
LARGE pot Chicken soup
Fry Bread
Cakes ? at least 6 for Cake Walk
Big Serving Trays of:

Potato Salad ? 2 people make
Macaroni Salad ? 1 person
Platter Baked Beans- 1 person
Platter Green Salad- 1 person

ALSO NEEDED ? ITEMS FOR GIVE-AWAY ? Suggestions:
Blankets 
Shawls
Pillows
Gift Baskets- will be assembled from donated goods such as-
Towels
Toiletries (for men or women)
Food gifts
Jewelry
Framed pictures
Toys (for children)
Kitchen ware
Coffee maker
Pots, pans
Food Items (canned, boxed, nonperishables, snacks)
Fruit baskets
Anything that you feel is an appropriate gift

CASH DONATIONS  ALWAYS WELCOME ? 
PLEASE contact ARLENE WALKER AT 402-314-6482 in LINCOLN

If Long Distance and mailing CHECKS, please send to me 
(B. SALVATORE, PO BOX 414, VERDIGRE, NE 68783) BY MARCH 25th, 
so purchases can be made by March 29th.

IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OR SUGGESTIONS -
PLEASE EMAIL me at bighorsemail at yahoo.com 
or CALL me at 607-287-0327

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR GENEROUS SUPPORT 
of WagoNze MARK AWAKUNI-SWETLAND at this time!








On Monday, January 27, 2014 9:46 PM, Catherine Rudin <carudin1 at wsc.edu> wrote:

Thanks, Rory.  
I think you're right that all this detail doesn't need to be on the list, but I am glad to know what is going on.  
I've added the addresses I have for John K and Vida.

I had wondered why I hadn't heard from Mark in a while, but figured he was just busy.  

I would like to help out in any way possible by long distance ... the note below mentions sending gas cards as one thing they could use.  Would just sending cash be out of place?  I'm sure they will have lots of expenses.  Won't try to bring food from Wayne.

The mental confusion must be dreadful.  But as you say, Mark is feisty and has always had an amazing sense of humor -- glad it's still intact.

C

>>> Rory Larson 01/27/14 7:45 PM >>>

Yes, thanks, Jimm.  I wasn?t sure whether it was my place to say anything on the list, so I?m glad you as an elder brought it up.

Mark collapsed in his office in mid-December, and has been in the hospital much of the time since.  The immediate problem was a collapsed aorta, but they seem to have sorted it out to a resurgence of the leukemia that, for the first time, is attacking his nervous system.  I visited him in the hospital a couple of days later.  He was talking with a small crowd of visiters, and was very much his normal, feisty self.  At that time, he still planned on teaching the coming semester.

Our student and illustrator Barbara Salvatore passed on an email from his departments  last week:

?  Dear Ethnic Studies Colleagues and friends of Ethnic Studies/Native American Studies,
?  This is the latest information regarding Mark Awakuni-Swetland.  This comes to us
?  from LuAnn Wandsnider, Chair of Anthropology:  
?   
?  Mark is now undergoing radiation treatments on a daily basis and, starting later this week, likely as an outpatient.  The
?  leukemia is now affecting parts of his brain, causing him to have double vision.  He and Donna are
?  pursuing chemotherapy and radiation treatment to help with quality of life; the longer term prognosis
?  is not good. 
?   
?  What you can do:  
?  His family could use help with providing meals/food for Micah (vegetarian; high school senior) and Kei'a (high
?  school freshman), since Donna is spending most of her time in Omaha.  They have some family help and help from Donna's
?  coworkers at LPS, but other help would be welcome.  Mark might be released this Friday, but then they will need to
?  travel back and forth to Omaha daily, so gas cards would also be useful. 
?   
?  You could drop off food for the boys around the back of 1532 No. 24th Street, with a note on the front door.  
?  Probably gas cards should come through the mail (zip: 68503).
?   
?  LuAnn will be e-mailing me again soon regarding whether Mark is able to have visitors or whether
?  a phone call is possible or if it might tire him too much.  Because of his double vision, he cannot read
?  his e-mails, but Donna is reading his e-mails to him-- so feel free to write him as well.
?  Mark's e-mail:  mawakuni-swetland2 at unl.edu
?   
?  Take good care, everyone,
?  Amelia

I was able to see him at his house for a short while on Friday evening.  They were well-stocked with vegetables; I added to their stash.  Mark was upright, seated at the table.  He was still himself, and lucid, but slightly slower than usual in speech and seemed to have a little trouble occasionally finding words.  A couple of times, he lost the initial consonant on his first attempt: e.g. ?arrow? for ?marrow?.  He suffers from severe headaches, but the most unsettling thing for him is that he has episodes.  These are either periods he can?t remember, like waking up in a completely different room than the one he went to bed in, and nobody else seems to think so, and he can?t remember the difference in enough detail to explain it; or he finds himself not knowing where he is, or who he is, or what his intended destination was.  He also complained of falling into weird and troubling ideation.  Fortunately, he still has a sound overall understanding, and his sense of humor.  He sorted out a long line of pills he must take.  The first is for his lungs, but the dose is too strong.  The second counteracts the overdose of the first, the third moderates the second, and so on down the line.  It seems his condition has pioneered new territory, beyond the bounds of current medical science, and now they are just throwing pills at it to see what works.

I had emailed him a couple of times, and got no answer.  As the message above says, he has double vision now and can?t read it, but I believe Donna will read the message to him if you would like to communicate with him that way.  I?ve been chary of calling him on the phone, but I haven?t heard anything to say we can?t.

Catherine, I?m sorry I didn?t get in touch with you sooner.  I had assumed that you and Vida already knew.  Mark and I didn?t talk about Omaha during the visit.  We might want to put out some feelers on what is going to happen there.

I?m not sure this much detail belongs on the list; I?ll leave that to wiser heads than mine.  I would include John Koontz and Vida Stabler if I could locate their email addresses.  Perhaps one of you could pass it on to them, and to anyone else you think should know.

Best,
Rory


From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] On Behalf Of Bryan James Gordon
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 4:31 PM
To: SIOUAN at LISTSERV.UNL.EDU
Subject: Re: MARK

Yes, Jimm, thank you for sharing this news with the list. It broke my heart to hear of it. Wag??ze th? shi edi ewathatha-ma w?bthaho?i mo?bth??.

2014-01-27 Jimm G. GoodTracks <jgoodtracks at gmail.com>
From: Vida Stabbler at Macy, NE:

Hi Jimm, my Nephew Uthixide Mark's leukemia is back and fierce at that. He's been on chemo and on leave from work.  

The leukemia has spread to spine, brain and bone marrow. Needless to say, there is great sadness coming along. He is doing radiation and will start chemo very soon. I sat with him and Donna at UNMC - Omaha yesterday. I will share your thoughts with him....makes him smile to hear from family and friends.

It would be good for the list to acknowledge him and that we stand with him in heart and prayer as he travels this difficult journey, that he has already traveled.

Jimm 




-- 
***********************************************************
Bryan James Gordon, MA
Joint PhD Program in Linguistics and Anthropology
University of Arizona
*********************************************************** 


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From majohnson25 at WISC.EDU  Wed Mar 19 03:41:40 2014
From: majohnson25 at WISC.EDU (Meredith Johnson)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2014 22:41:40 -0500
Subject: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34
Message-ID: <TUE.18.MAR.2014.224140.0500.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

Dear all,

We have a couple of updates about the upcoming 34th Siouan and Caddoan Languages Conference, to be held Friday, May 23 to Sunday, May 25 at the University of Wisconsin-Madison.

The conference will be held at Memorial Union, which is on the University of Wisconsin campus in downtown Madison. We have reserved a block of rooms at the Hampton Inn, which is the closest hotel to the conference site (less than a 10 minute walk away). The special conference rate is $119/night for a double room from May 22-25. The rate is available until April 22, and you can access this rate from the following link: http://hamptoninn.hilton.com/en/hp/groups/personalized/M/MSNBJHX-ALC-20140522/index.jhtml

If you're on a tighter budget, we suggest finding a hotel on the west side of Madison and taking a bus to the conference. Bus schedules and Google transit planner are available here: http://www.cityofmadison.com/metro/ Please note that there are different schedules for the work week and weekend.

Please see attached for a (very) tentative schedule. If you?d like to secure one of the spots on this schedule, remember to submit an abstract online at http://linguistlist.org/confcustom/SCLC34 by this Sunday, March 23! :)

Lastly, we hope to have registration available shortly! We are still waiting for confirmation on our conference funding. If it comes through (fingers crossed!), registration will be free, and there will be a subsidized conference dinner. We will let you know as soon as we do!

We hope to have more info for you soon, but in the meantime, please feel free to e-mail with any questions. Also check our new website https://sites.google.com/site/34sclc/accomodations for updates and additional information.

All the best,
Meredith Johnson
Bryan Rosen
Matea Schuck
SCLC 34 Organizers

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From Greer-J at MSSU.EDU  Wed Mar 19 05:40:15 2014
From: Greer-J at MSSU.EDU (Greer, Jill)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2014 05:40:15 +0000
Subject: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34
In-Reply-To: <1B1D94AE-ED25-4624-9991-D190D9FC9AC9@wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.19.MAR.2014.054015.0000.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

Dear Meredith, Bryan, and Matea,

A couple of questions/comments:  Is there no possibility of less expensive dorm space?  A shorter walk and/or less expense might make the conference more friendly to a larger number of folks.  Also,  it seems a little formal to be going through linguist list rather than directly to the organizer's emails,  regardless of links provided.  Yes,  I'm sorry to sound like a grumpy old Luddite,  but surely  linguists of all people ought to be cognizant of the meta-communicative message of relying on 3rd party providers for 'ease' , so to speak, rather than actual person-to-person correspondence?

Forgive me for the complaints.  This meeting date is a bit early in the summer for my calendar,  and I'm not really sure I'm up to going to a Siouan conference without Bob just yet anyway.  No doubt everyone is still reeling under that weight, too.  Perhaps the proceedings could be shared with the list?  Rory was the only  one kind enough to actually share his paper from last summer's meeting.

But for future collegiality with fellow Siouanists,  perhaps I'm not too far out of line to request that the generously open and friendly tone of the conference not be replaced with the rather frenzied pace of the "standard"  linguistics meeting.

In the meantime,  thank you for the willingness to host,  and I hope that perhaps the beginning of some kind of Festschrift for Bob could begin to emerge from the group sorrow.

Sincerely yours,
Jill Greer















On Mar 18, 2014, at 10:41 PM, Meredith Johnson <majohnson25 at WISC.EDU<mailto:majohnson25 at WISC.EDU>>
 wrote:

Dear all,

We have a couple of updates about the upcoming 34th Siouan and Caddoan Languages Conference, to be held Friday, May 23 to Sunday, May 25 at the University of Wisconsin-Madison.

The conference will be held at Memorial Union, which is on the University of Wisconsin campus in downtown Madison. We have reserved a block of rooms at the Hampton Inn, which is the closest hotel to the conference site (less than a 10 minute walk away). The special conference rate is $119/night for a double room from May 22-25. The rate is available until April 22, and you can access this rate from the following link: http://hamptoninn.hilton.com/en/hp/groups/personalized/M/MSNBJHX-ALC-20140522/index.jhtml

If you're on a tighter budget, we suggest finding a hotel on the west side of Madison and taking a bus to the conference. Bus schedules and Google transit planner are available here: http://www.cityofmadison.com/metro/ Please note that there are different schedules for the work week and weekend.

Please see attached for a (very) tentative schedule. If you?d like to secure one of the spots on this schedule, remember to submit an abstract online at http://linguistlist.org/confcustom/SCLC34 by this Sunday, March 23! :)

Lastly, we hope to have registration available shortly! We are still waiting for confirmation on our conference funding. If it comes through (fingers crossed!), registration will be free, and there will be a subsidized conference dinner. We will let you know as soon as we do!

We hope to have more info for you soon, but in the meantime, please feel free to e-mail with any questions. Also check our new website https://sites.google.com/site/34sclc/accomodations for updates and additional information.

All the best,
Meredith Johnson
Bryan Rosen
Matea Schuck
SCLC 34 Organizers

<SCLC prelim schedule.pdf>



This email may contain identifiable personal information that is subject to protection under state and federal law. This information is intended for the use of the individual named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited and may be punishable by law. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify us immediately by electronic mail (reply).
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From majohnson25 at WISC.EDU  Wed Mar 19 06:01:18 2014
From: majohnson25 at WISC.EDU (Meredith Johnson)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2014 01:01:18 -0500
Subject: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34
In-Reply-To: <EE67A80F-C04C-4C9E-A140-F9120496C06E@mssu.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.19.MAR.2014.010118.0500.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

Hi all,

A couple of quick responses to Jill's questions, which I am responding to on list in case others are interested.

Dorm space: to the best of our knowledge, there is no available dorm space. The conference venue is also on the edge of campus, and all dorms would actually be further away than the hotel. Having the conference in an urban setting unfortunately has its drawbacks: we could either choose a convenient hotel to get a block of rooms in, or a somewhat cheaper one that would require a long bus ride for participants. 

As for going through linguist list: We certainly were not trying to be formal; there are just three organizers and we all would like access to all abstracts submitted. I have accepted abstracts that were e-mailed to me, and if anyone else would prefer to do that, I will happily accept them and pass them on to the other organizers. All other correspondence will be done "person-to-person."

Of course, if there are any suggestions as to how we can maintain the "generously open and friendly tone of the conference", don't hesitate to e-mail me on or off-list. If we have done anything else to offend anyone while trying to organize this conference, drop me a line.

Best,
Meredith
On Mar 19, 2014, at 12:40 AM, "Greer, Jill" <Greer-J at MSSU.EDU> wrote

> Dear Meredith, Bryan, and Matea,
> 
> A couple of questions/comments:  Is there no possibility of less expensive dorm space?  A shorter walk and/or less expense might make the conference more friendly to a larger number of folks.  Also,  it seems a little formal to be going through linguist list rather than directly to the organizer's emails,  regardless of links provided.  Yes,  I'm sorry to sound like a grumpy old Luddite,  but surely  linguists of all people ought to be cognizant of the meta-communicative message of relying on 3rd party providers for 'ease' , so to speak, rather than actual person-to-person correspondence?  
> 
> Forgive me for the complaints.  This meeting date is a bit early in the summer for my calendar,  and I'm not really sure I'm up to going to a Siouan conference without Bob just yet anyway.  No doubt everyone is still reeling under that weight, too.  Perhaps the proceedings could be shared with the list?  Rory was the only  one kind enough to actually share his paper from last summer's meeting.  
> 
> But for future collegiality with fellow Siouanists,  perhaps I'm not too far out of line to request that the generously open and friendly tone of the conference not be replaced with the rather frenzied pace of the "standard"  linguistics meeting.  
> 
> In the meantime,  thank you for the willingness to host,  and I hope that perhaps the beginning of some kind of Festschrift for Bob could begin to emerge from the group sorrow.  
> 
> Sincerely yours,
> Jill Greer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>     
> 
> 
> 
> On Mar 18, 2014, at 10:41 PM, Meredith Johnson <majohnson25 at WISC.EDU>
>  wrote:
> 
>> Dear all,
>> 
>> We have a couple of updates about the upcoming 34th Siouan and Caddoan Languages Conference, to be held Friday, May 23 to Sunday, May 25 at the University of Wisconsin-Madison.
>> 
>> The conference will be held at Memorial Union, which is on the University of Wisconsin campus in downtown Madison. We have reserved a block of rooms at the Hampton Inn, which is the closest hotel to the conference site (less than a 10 minute walk away). The special conference rate is $119/night for a double room from May 22-25. The rate is available until April 22, and you can access this rate from the following link: http://hamptoninn.hilton.com/en/hp/groups/personalized/M/MSNBJHX-ALC-20140522/index.jhtml
>> 
>> If you're on a tighter budget, we suggest finding a hotel on the west side of Madison and taking a bus to the conference. Bus schedules and Google transit planner are available here: http://www.cityofmadison.com/metro/ Please note that there are different schedules for the work week and weekend.
>> 
>> Please see attached for a (very) tentative schedule. If you?d like to secure one of the spots on this schedule, remember to submit an abstract online at http://linguistlist.org/confcustom/SCLC34 by this Sunday, March 23! :)
>> 
>> Lastly, we hope to have registration available shortly! We are still waiting for confirmation on our conference funding. If it comes through (fingers crossed!), registration will be free, and there will be a subsidized conference dinner. We will let you know as soon as we do!
>> 
>> We hope to have more info for you soon, but in the meantime, please feel free to e-mail with any questions. Also check our new website https://sites.google.com/site/34sclc/accomodations for updates and additional information.
>> 
>> All the best,
>> Meredith Johnson
>> Bryan Rosen
>> Matea Schuck
>> SCLC 34 Organizers
>> 
>> <SCLC prelim schedule.pdf>
> 
> 
> 
> This email may contain identifiable personal information that is subject to protection under state and federal law. This information is intended for the use of the individual named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited and may be punishable by law. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify us immediately by electronic mail (reply).

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From jgoodtracks at GMAIL.COM  Wed Mar 19 12:49:03 2014
From: jgoodtracks at GMAIL.COM (Jimm Goodtracks)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2014 07:49:03 -0500
Subject: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34
In-Reply-To: <05E37D6A-FF74-4397-A06E-C61CD0E85F37@wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.19.MAR.2014.074903.0500.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

For your information, I was unable to connect with the link below on conference program -   http://linguistlist.org/confcustom/SCLC34

From: Meredith Johnson 
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2014 1:01 AM
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu 
Subject: Re: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34

Hi all, 

A couple of quick responses to Jill's questions, which I am responding to on list in case others are interested.

Dorm space: to the best of our knowledge, there is no available dorm space. The conference venue is also on the edge of campus, and all dorms would actually be further away than the hotel. Having the conference in an urban setting unfortunately has its drawbacks: we could either choose a convenient hotel to get a block of rooms in, or a somewhat cheaper one that would require a long bus ride for participants. 

As for going through linguist list: We certainly were not trying to be formal; there are just three organizers and we all would like access to all abstracts submitted. I have accepted abstracts that were e-mailed to me, and if anyone else would prefer to do that, I will happily accept them and pass them on to the other organizers. All other correspondence will be done "person-to-person."

Of course, if there are any suggestions as to how we can maintain the "generously open and friendly tone of the conference", don't hesitate to e-mail me on or off-list. If we have done anything else to offend anyone while trying to organize this conference, drop me a line.

Best,
Meredith
On Mar 19, 2014, at 12:40 AM, "Greer, Jill" <Greer-J at MSSU.EDU> wrote


  Dear Meredith, Bryan, and Matea,

  A couple of questions/comments:  Is there no possibility of less expensive dorm space?  A shorter walk and/or less expense might make the conference more friendly to a larger number of folks.  Also,  it seems a little formal to be going through linguist list rather than directly to the organizer's emails,  regardless of links provided.  Yes,  I'm sorry to sound like a grumpy old Luddite,  but surely  linguists of all people ought to be cognizant of the meta-communicative message of relying on 3rd party providers for 'ease' , so to speak, rather than actual person-to-person correspondence?  

  Forgive me for the complaints.  This meeting date is a bit early in the summer for my calendar,  and I'm not really sure I'm up to going to a Siouan conference without Bob just yet anyway.  No doubt everyone is still reeling under that weight, too.  Perhaps the proceedings could be shared with the list?  Rory was the only  one kind enough to actually share his paper from last summer's meeting.  

  But for future collegiality with fellow Siouanists,  perhaps I'm not too far out of line to request that the generously open and friendly tone of the conference not be replaced with the rather frenzied pace of the "standard"  linguistics meeting.  

  In the meantime,  thank you for the willingness to host,  and I hope that perhaps the beginning of some kind of Festschrift for Bob could begin to emerge from the group sorrow.  

  Sincerely yours,
  Jill Greer











      



  On Mar 18, 2014, at 10:41 PM, Meredith Johnson <majohnson25 at WISC.EDU>
  wrote:


    Dear all,

    We have a couple of updates about the upcoming 34th Siouan and Caddoan Languages Conference, to be held Friday, May 23 to Sunday, May 25 at the University of Wisconsin-Madison.

    The conference will be held at Memorial Union, which is on the University of Wisconsin campus in downtown Madison. We have reserved a block of rooms at the Hampton Inn, which is the closest hotel to the conference site (less than a 10 minute walk away). The special conference rate is $119/night for a double room from May 22-25. The rate is available until April 22, and you can access this rate from the following link: http://hamptoninn.hilton.com/en/hp/groups/personalized/M/MSNBJHX-ALC-20140522/index.jhtml

    If you're on a tighter budget, we suggest finding a hotel on the west side of Madison and taking a bus to the conference. Bus schedules and Google transit planner are available here: http://www.cityofmadison.com/metro/ Please note that there are different schedules for the work week and weekend.

    Please see attached for a (very) tentative schedule. If you?d like to secure one of the spots on this schedule, remember to submit an abstract online at http://linguistlist.org/confcustom/SCLC34 by this Sunday, March 23! :)

    Lastly, we hope to have registration available shortly! We are still waiting for confirmation on our conference funding. If it comes through (fingers crossed!), registration will be free, and there will be a subsidized conference dinner. We will let you know as soon as we do!

    We hope to have more info for you soon, but in the meantime, please feel free to e-mail with any questions. Also check our new website https://sites.google.com/site/34sclc/accomodations for updates and additional information.

    All the best,
    Meredith Johnson
    Bryan Rosen
    Matea Schuck
    SCLC 34 Organizers

    <SCLC prelim schedule.pdf> 



  This email may contain identifiable personal information that is subject to protection under state and federal law. This information is intended for the use of the individual named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited and may be punishable by law. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify us immediately by electronic mail (reply). 
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From majohnson25 at WISC.EDU  Wed Mar 19 16:52:14 2014
From: majohnson25 at WISC.EDU (Meredith Johnson)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2014 11:52:14 -0500
Subject: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34
In-Reply-To: <F841D424F5DC400FBE649C57772F3331@AsusLaptop>
Message-ID: <WED.19.MAR.2014.115214.0500.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

Hi again all,

Hmm, that's strange. All three of the organizers tried it, and several people have successfully uploaded abstracts. I'm guessing Linguist List was just updating the website. If you have trouble, I would suggest trying it again a little later. If anyone has continual trouble, please let me know, and I'll contact Linguist List.

Best,
Meredith
On Mar 19, 2014, at 7:49 AM, Jimm Goodtracks <jgoodtracks at GMAIL.COM> wrote

> For your information, I was unable to connect with the link below on conference program -   http://linguistlist.org/confcustom/SCLC34
>  
> From: Meredith Johnson
> Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2014 1:01 AM
> To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
> Subject: Re: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34
>  
> Hi all,
>  
> A couple of quick responses to Jill's questions, which I am responding to on list in case others are interested.
>  
> Dorm space: to the best of our knowledge, there is no available dorm space. The conference venue is also on the edge of campus, and all dorms would actually be further away than the hotel. Having the conference in an urban setting unfortunately has its drawbacks: we could either choose a convenient hotel to get a block of rooms in, or a somewhat cheaper one that would require a long bus ride for participants.
>  
> As for going through linguist list: We certainly were not trying to be formal; there are just three organizers and we all would like access to all abstracts submitted. I have accepted abstracts that were e-mailed to me, and if anyone else would prefer to do that, I will happily accept them and pass them on to the other organizers. All other correspondence will be done "person-to-person."
>  
> Of course, if there are any suggestions as to how we can maintain the "generously open and friendly tone of the conference", don't hesitate to e-mail me on or off-list. If we have done anything else to offend anyone while trying to organize this conference, drop me a line.
>  
> Best,
> Meredith
> On Mar 19, 2014, at 12:40 AM, "Greer, Jill" <Greer-J at MSSU.EDU> wrote
> 
>> Dear Meredith, Bryan, and Matea,
>>  
>> A couple of questions/comments:  Is there no possibility of less expensive dorm space?  A shorter walk and/or less expense might make the conference more friendly to a larger number of folks.  Also,  it seems a little formal to be going through linguist list rather than directly to the organizer's emails,  regardless of links provided.  Yes,  I'm sorry to sound like a grumpy old Luddite,  but surely  linguists of all people ought to be cognizant of the meta-communicative message of relying on 3rd party providers for 'ease' , so to speak, rather than actual person-to-person correspondence? 
>>  
>> Forgive me for the complaints.  This meeting date is a bit early in the summer for my calendar,  and I'm not really sure I'm up to going to a Siouan conference without Bob just yet anyway.  No doubt everyone is still reeling under that weight, too.  Perhaps the proceedings could be shared with the list?  Rory was the only  one kind enough to actually share his paper from last summer's meeting. 
>>  
>> But for future collegiality with fellow Siouanists,  perhaps I'm not too far out of line to request that the generously open and friendly tone of the conference not be replaced with the rather frenzied pace of the "standard"  linguistics meeting. 
>>  
>> In the meantime,  thank you for the willingness to host,  and I hope that perhaps the beginning of some kind of Festschrift for Bob could begin to emerge from the group sorrow. 
>>  
>> Sincerely yours,
>> Jill Greer
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>    
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> On Mar 18, 2014, at 10:41 PM, Meredith Johnson <majohnson25 at WISC.EDU>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Dear all,
>>>  
>>> We have a couple of updates about the upcoming 34th Siouan and Caddoan Languages Conference, to be held Friday, May 23 to Sunday, May 25 at the University of Wisconsin-Madison.
>>>  
>>> The conference will be held at Memorial Union, which is on the University of Wisconsin campus in downtown Madison. We have reserved a block of rooms at the Hampton Inn, which is the closest hotel to the conference site (less than a 10 minute walk away). The special conference rate is $119/night for a double room from May 22-25. The rate is available until April 22, and you can access this rate from the following link: http://hamptoninn.hilton.com/en/hp/groups/personalized/M/MSNBJHX-ALC-20140522/index.jhtml
>>>  
>>> If you're on a tighter budget, we suggest finding a hotel on the west side of Madison and taking a bus to the conference. Bus schedules and Google transit planner are available here: http://www.cityofmadison.com/metro/ Please note that there are different schedules for the work week and weekend.
>>>  
>>> Please see attached for a (very) tentative schedule. If you?d like to secure one of the spots on this schedule, remember to submit an abstract online at http://linguistlist.org/confcustom/SCLC34 by this Sunday, March 23! :)
>>>  
>>> Lastly, we hope to have registration available shortly! We are still waiting for confirmation on our conference funding. If it comes through (fingers crossed!), registration will be free, and there will be a subsidized conference dinner. We will let you know as soon as we do!
>>>  
>>> We hope to have more info for you soon, but in the meantime, please feel free to e-mail with any questions. Also check our new website https://sites.google.com/site/34sclc/accomodations for updates and additional information.
>>>  
>>> All the best,
>>> Meredith Johnson
>>> Bryan Rosen
>>> Matea Schuck
>>> SCLC 34 Organizers
>>>  
>>> <SCLC prelim schedule.pdf>
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> This email may contain identifiable personal information that is subject to protection under state and federal law. This information is intended for the use of the individual named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information    is prohibited and may be punishable by law. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify us immediately by electronic mail (reply).
> 
>  

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From CaRudin1 at WSC.EDU  Wed Mar 19 18:47:03 2014
From: CaRudin1 at WSC.EDU (Catherine Rudin)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2014 13:47:03 -0500
Subject: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34
In-Reply-To: <73E6FFBE-6AF3-4A0C-A085-0CCA55551A5C@wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.19.MAR.2014.134703.0500.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

The link works fine for me.  
 
Jill, I certainly share your sense of loss, but it seems to me the last
thing Bob would have wanted is for folks to not attend the conference
because he won't be there.  Let's all go honor his life by continuing
the work he loved.  
 
Meredith, Bryan, and Matea THANK YOU for an outstanding job organizing
so far -- I've been delighted to see timely information and reminders
not only on the Siouan list but also on LinguistList.  The SCLC has
varied widely over the years -- each organizer does it a little
differently, and that's fine.  I don't see anything closed or unfriendly
in using an online system for submitting abstracts.  I'm not planning on
giving a talk this year (alas, too overbooked to get around to writing
anything up) -- but I definitely plan to attend and am looking forward
to it. 
 
Catherine

>>> Meredith Johnson <majohnson25 at WISC.EDU> 3/19/2014 11:52 AM >>>
Hi again all,

Hmm, that's strange. All three of the organizers tried it, and several
people have successfully uploaded abstracts. I'm guessing Linguist List
was just updating the website. If you have trouble, I would suggest
trying it again a little later. If anyone has continual trouble, please
let me know, and I'll contact Linguist List.

Best,
Meredith
On Mar 19, 2014, at 7:49 AM, Jimm Goodtracks <jgoodtracks at GMAIL.COM>
wrote



For your information, I was unable to connect with the link below on
conference program -   http://linguistlist.org/confcustom/SCLC34
 
From: Meredith Johnson ( mailto:majohnson25 at WISC.EDU ) 
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2014 1:01 AM
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu 
Subject: Re: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34
 
Hi all, 
 
A couple of quick responses to Jill's questions, which I am responding
to on list in case others are interested.
 
Dorm space: to the best of our knowledge, there is no available dorm
space. The conference venue is also on the edge of campus, and all dorms
would actually be further away than the hotel. Having the conference in
an urban setting unfortunately has its drawbacks: we could either choose
a convenient hotel to get a block of rooms in, or a somewhat cheaper one
that would require a long bus ride for participants. 
 
As for going through linguist list: We certainly were not trying to be
formal; there are just three organizers and we all would like access to
all abstracts submitted. I have accepted abstracts that were e-mailed to
me, and if anyone else would prefer to do that, I will happily accept
them and pass them on to the other organizers. All other correspondence
will be done "person-to-person."
 
Of course, if there are any suggestions as to how we can maintain the
"generously open and friendly tone of the conference", don't hesitate to
e-mail me on or off-list. If we have done anything else to offend anyone
while trying to organize this conference, drop me a line.
 
Best,
Meredith
On Mar 19, 2014, at 12:40 AM, "Greer, Jill" <Greer-J at MSSU.EDU> wrote



Dear Meredith, Bryan, and Matea,
 
A couple of questions/comments:  Is there no possibility of less
expensive dorm space?  A shorter walk and/or less expense might make the
conference more friendly to a larger number of folks.  Also,  it seems a
little formal to be going through linguist list rather than directly to
the organizer's emails,  regardless of links provided.  Yes,  I'm sorry
to sound like a grumpy old Luddite,  but surely  linguists of all people
ought to be cognizant of the meta-communicative message of relying on
3rd party providers for 'ease' , so to speak, rather than actual
person-to-person correspondence?  
 
Forgive me for the complaints.  This meeting date is a bit early in the
summer for my calendar,  and I'm not really sure I'm up to going to a
Siouan conference without Bob just yet anyway.  No doubt everyone is
still reeling under that weight, too.  Perhaps the proceedings could be
shared with the list?  Rory was the only  one kind enough to actually
share his paper from last summer's meeting.  
 
But for future collegiality with fellow Siouanists,  perhaps I'm not
too far out of line to request that the generously open and friendly
tone of the conference not be replaced with the rather frenzied pace of
the "standard"  linguistics meeting.  
 
In the meantime,  thank you for the willingness to host,  and I hope
that perhaps the beginning of some kind of Festschrift for Bob could
begin to emerge from the group sorrow.  
 
Sincerely yours,
Jill Greer
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    
 
 
 
On Mar 18, 2014, at 10:41 PM, Meredith Johnson <majohnson25 at WISC.EDU>
wrote:



Dear all,
 
We have a couple of updates about the upcoming 34th Siouan and Caddoan
Languages Conference, to be held Friday, May 23 to Sunday, May 25 at the
University of Wisconsin-Madison.
 
The conference will be held at Memorial Union, which is on the
University of Wisconsin campus in downtown Madison. We have reserved a
block of rooms at the Hampton Inn, which is the closest hotel to the
conference site (less than a 10 minute walk away). The special
conference rate is $119/night for a double room from May 22-25. The rate
is available until April 22, and you can access this rate from the
following link:
http://hamptoninn.hilton.com/en/hp/groups/personalized/M/MSNBJHX-ALC-20140522/index.jhtml
 
If you're on a tighter budget, we suggest finding a hotel on the west
side of Madison and taking a bus to the conference. Bus schedules and
Google transit planner are available here:
http://www.cityofmadison.com/metro/ Please note that there are different
schedules for the work week and weekend.
 
Please see attached for a (very) tentative schedule. If you?d like to
secure one of the spots on this schedule, remember to submit an abstract
online at http://linguistlist.org/confcustom/SCLC34 by this Sunday,
March 23! :)
 
Lastly, we hope to have registration available shortly! We are still
waiting for confirmation on our conference funding. If it comes through
(fingers crossed!), registration will be free, and there will be a
subsidized conference dinner. We will let you know as soon as we do!
 
We hope to have more info for you soon, but in the meantime, please
feel free to e-mail with any questions. Also check our new website
https://sites.google.com/site/34sclc/accomodations for updates and
additional information.
 
All the best,
Meredith Johnson
Bryan Rosen
Matea Schuck
SCLC 34 Organizers
 
<SCLC prelim schedule.pdf> 

 


This email may contain identifiable personal information that is
subject to protection under state and federal law. This information is
intended for the use of the individual named above. If you are not the
intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution
or use of the contents of this information is prohibited and may be
punishable by law. If you have received this electronic transmission in
error, please notify us immediately by electronic mail (reply). 

 


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From dvkanth2010 at GMAIL.COM  Wed Mar 19 19:36:28 2014
From: dvkanth2010 at GMAIL.COM (David Kaufman)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2014 14:36:28 -0500
Subject: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34
In-Reply-To: <53299FD70200008E000AE808@hermes.wsc.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.19.MAR.2014.143628.0500.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

I must echo Catherine's sentiments.  Although Bob's passing is a loss to us
all, he would have tried to be at the conference if he still could, and, in
spirit, he will still be there.  The conference would be a good opportunity
for all of us to talk about memories of Bob and to perhaps plan a
Festschrift in his honor as Jill proposed.

As a former SCLC organizer, I also want to commend the work that the three
organizers are doing.  It is not easy getting everything organized and
keeping everyone happy, so I can sympathize with the work they have ahead
of them.  Bob welcomed newcomers, including younger people, who will be the
future of Siouan linguistics.  Meredith, Bryan, and Matea are young
newcomers and have taken on a big responsibility in organizing this year's
conference.  Let's hope we have even more newcomers who are as dedicated
and committed to Siouan linguistics as they are!

Things will get worked out.  Hope to see all of you in May!

Dave

David Kaufman
Linguistic Anthropology PhD candidate, University of Kansas
Director, Kaw Nation Language Program


On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 1:47 PM, Catherine Rudin <CaRudin1 at wsc.edu> wrote:

>  The link works fine for me.
>
> Jill, I certainly share your sense of loss, but it seems to me the last
> thing Bob would have wanted is for folks to not attend the conference
> because he won't be there.  Let's all go honor his life by continuing the
> work he loved.
>
> Meredith, Bryan, and Matea THANK YOU for an outstanding job organizing so
> far -- I've been delighted to see timely information and reminders not only
> on the Siouan list but also on LinguistList.  The SCLC has varied widely
> over the years -- each organizer does it a little differently, and that's
> fine.  I don't see anything closed or unfriendly in using an online system
> for submitting abstracts.  I'm not planning on giving a talk this year
> (alas, too overbooked to get around to writing anything up) -- but I
> definitely plan to attend and am looking forward to it.
>
> Catherine
>
> >>> Meredith Johnson <majohnson25 at WISC.EDU> 3/19/2014 11:52 AM >>>
> Hi again all,
>
> Hmm, that's strange. All three of the organizers tried it, and several
> people have successfully uploaded abstracts. I'm guessing Linguist List was
> just updating the website. If you have trouble, I would suggest trying it
> again a little later. If anyone has continual trouble, please let me know,
> and I'll contact Linguist List.
>
> Best,
> Meredith
>  On Mar 19, 2014, at 7:49 AM, Jimm Goodtracks <jgoodtracks at GMAIL.COM>
> wrote
>
>   For your information, I was unable to connect with the link below on
> conference program -   http://linguistlist.org/confcustom/SCLC34
>
>  *From:* Meredith Johnson <majohnson25 at WISC.EDU>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 19, 2014 1:01 AM
> *To:* SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
> *Subject:* Re: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34
>
> Hi all,
>
> A couple of quick responses to Jill's questions, which I am responding to
> on list in case others are interested.
>
> Dorm space: to the best of our knowledge, there is no available dorm
> space. The conference venue is also on the edge of campus, and all dorms
> would actually be further away than the hotel. Having the conference in an
> urban setting unfortunately has its drawbacks: we could either choose a
> convenient hotel to get a block of rooms in, or a somewhat cheaper one that
> would require a long bus ride for participants.
>
> As for going through linguist list: We certainly were not trying to be
> formal; there are just three organizers and we all would like access to all
> abstracts submitted. I have accepted abstracts that were e-mailed to me,
> and if anyone else would prefer to do that, I will happily accept them and
> pass them on to the other organizers. All other correspondence will be done
> "person-to-person."
>
> Of course, if there are any suggestions as to how we can maintain the
> "generously open and friendly tone of the conference", don't hesitate to
> e-mail me on or off-list. If we have done anything else to offend anyone
> while trying to organize this conference, drop me a line.
>
> Best,
> Meredith
>  On Mar 19, 2014, at 12:40 AM, "Greer, Jill" <Greer-J at MSSU.EDU> wrote
>
>  Dear Meredith, Bryan, and Matea,
>
> A couple of questions/comments:  Is there no possibility of less expensive
> dorm space?  A shorter walk and/or less expense might make the conference
> more friendly to a larger number of folks.  Also,  it seems a little formal
> to be going through linguist list rather than directly to the organizer's
> emails,  regardless of links provided.  Yes,  I'm sorry to sound like a
> grumpy old Luddite,  but surely  linguists of all people ought to be
> cognizant of the meta-communicative message of relying on 3rd party
> providers for 'ease' , so to speak, rather than actual person-to-person
> correspondence?
>
> Forgive me for the complaints.  This meeting date is a bit early in the
> summer for my calendar,  and I'm not really sure I'm up to going to a
> Siouan conference without Bob just yet anyway.  No doubt everyone is still
> reeling under that weight, too.  Perhaps the proceedings could be shared
> with the list?  Rory was the only  one kind enough to actually share his
> paper from last summer's meeting.
>
> But for future collegiality with fellow Siouanists,  perhaps I'm not too
> far out of line to request that the generously open and friendly tone of
> the conference not be replaced with the rather frenzied pace of the
> "standard"  linguistics meeting.
>
> In the meantime,  thank you for the willingness to host,  and I hope that
> perhaps the beginning of some kind of Festschrift for Bob could begin to
> emerge from the group sorrow.
>
> Sincerely yours,
> Jill Greer
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  On Mar 18, 2014, at 10:41 PM, Meredith Johnson <majohnson25 at WISC.EDU>
> wrote:
>
>  Dear all,
>
> We have a couple of updates about the upcoming 34th Siouan and Caddoan
> Languages Conference, to be held Friday, May 23 to Sunday, May 25 at the
> University of Wisconsin-Madison.
>
> The conference will be held at Memorial Union, which is on the University
> of Wisconsin campus in downtown Madison. We have reserved a block of rooms
> at the Hampton Inn, which is the closest hotel to the conference site (less
> than a 10 minute walk away). The special conference rate is $119/night for
> a double room from May 22-25. The rate is available until April 22, and you
> can access this rate from the following link:
> http://hamptoninn.hilton.com/en/hp/groups/personalized/M/MSNBJHX-ALC-20140522/index.jhtml
>
> If you're on a tighter budget, we suggest finding a hotel on the west side
> of Madison and taking a bus to the conference. Bus schedules and Google
> transit planner are available here: http://www.cityofmadison.com/metro/Please note that there are different schedules for the work week and
> weekend.
>
> Please see attached for a (very) tentative schedule. If you'd like to
> secure one of the spots on this schedule, remember to submit an abstract
> online at http://linguistlist.org/confcustom/SCLC34 by this Sunday, March
> 23! :)
>
> Lastly, we hope to have registration available shortly! We are still
> waiting for confirmation on our conference funding. If it comes through
> (fingers crossed!), registration will be free, and there will be a
> subsidized conference dinner. We will let you know as soon as we do!
>
> We hope to have more info for you soon, but in the meantime, please feel
> free to e-mail with any questions. Also check our new website
> https://sites.google.com/site/34sclc/accomodations for updates and
> additional information.
>
> All the best,
> Meredith Johnson
> Bryan Rosen
> Matea Schuck
> SCLC 34 Organizers
>
> <SCLC prelim schedule.pdf>
>
>
>
>
> This email may contain identifiable personal information that is subject
> to protection under state and federal law. This information is intended for
> the use of the individual named above. If you are not the intended
> recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of
> the contents of this information is prohibited and may be punishable by
> law. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please
> notify us immediately by electronic mail (reply).
>
>
>
>
>
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From rlarson1 at UNL.EDU  Wed Mar 19 20:15:43 2014
From: rlarson1 at UNL.EDU (Rory Larson)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2014 20:15:43 +0000
Subject: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34
In-Reply-To: <CAKapKjR18W=RGo4pttgpgv5Z72LwNdB2hebN95XatP2odi4HUA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <WED.19.MAR.2014.201543.0000.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

I agree.  Thanks very much to Meredith, Bryan and Matea for all their work in organizing this conference.  I know Bob was really looking forward to attending it.  And Jill, thank you for the proposal that we do a Festschrift for Bob.  I think that's an absolutely wonderful idea, and I hope you will be active in shepherding it along.  :)

Best,
Rory


From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] On Behalf Of David Kaufman
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2014 2:36 PM
To: SIOUAN at LISTSERV.UNL.EDU
Subject: Re: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34

I must echo Catherine's sentiments.  Although Bob's passing is a loss to us all, he would have tried to be at the conference if he still could, and, in spirit, he will still be there.  The conference would be a good opportunity for all of us to talk about memories of Bob and to perhaps plan a Festschrift in his honor as Jill proposed.

As a former SCLC organizer, I also want to commend the work that the three organizers are doing.  It is not easy getting everything organized and keeping everyone happy, so I can sympathize with the work they have ahead of them.  Bob welcomed newcomers, including younger people, who will be the future of Siouan linguistics.  Meredith, Bryan, and Matea are young newcomers and have taken on a big responsibility in organizing this year's conference.  Let's hope we have even more newcomers who are as dedicated and committed to Siouan linguistics as they are!

Things will get worked out.  Hope to see all of you in May!

Dave

David Kaufman
Linguistic Anthropology PhD candidate, University of Kansas
Director, Kaw Nation Language Program

On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 1:47 PM, Catherine Rudin <CaRudin1 at wsc.edu<mailto:CaRudin1 at wsc.edu>> wrote:
The link works fine for me.

Jill, I certainly share your sense of loss, but it seems to me the last thing Bob would have wanted is for folks to not attend the conference because he won't be there.  Let's all go honor his life by continuing the work he loved.

Meredith, Bryan, and Matea THANK YOU for an outstanding job organizing so far -- I've been delighted to see timely information and reminders not only on the Siouan list but also on LinguistList.  The SCLC has varied widely over the years -- each organizer does it a little differently, and that's fine.  I don't see anything closed or unfriendly in using an online system for submitting abstracts.  I'm not planning on giving a talk this year (alas, too overbooked to get around to writing anything up) -- but I definitely plan to attend and am looking forward to it.

Catherine

>>> Meredith Johnson <majohnson25 at WISC.EDU<mailto:majohnson25 at WISC.EDU>> 3/19/2014 11:52 AM >>>
Hi again all,

Hmm, that's strange. All three of the organizers tried it, and several people have successfully uploaded abstracts. I'm guessing Linguist List was just updating the website. If you have trouble, I would suggest trying it again a little later. If anyone has continual trouble, please let me know, and I'll contact Linguist List.

Best,
Meredith
On Mar 19, 2014, at 7:49 AM, Jimm Goodtracks <jgoodtracks at GMAIL.COM<mailto:jgoodtracks at GMAIL.COM>> wrote


For your information, I was unable to connect with the link below on conference program -   http://linguistlist.org/confcustom/SCLC34

From: Meredith Johnson<mailto:majohnson25 at WISC.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2014 1:01 AM
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu<mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu>
Subject: Re: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34

Hi all,

A couple of quick responses to Jill's questions, which I am responding to on list in case others are interested.

Dorm space: to the best of our knowledge, there is no available dorm space. The conference venue is also on the edge of campus, and all dorms would actually be further away than the hotel. Having the conference in an urban setting unfortunately has its drawbacks: we could either choose a convenient hotel to get a block of rooms in, or a somewhat cheaper one that would require a long bus ride for participants.

As for going through linguist list: We certainly were not trying to be formal; there are just three organizers and we all would like access to all abstracts submitted. I have accepted abstracts that were e-mailed to me, and if anyone else would prefer to do that, I will happily accept them and pass them on to the other organizers. All other correspondence will be done "person-to-person."

Of course, if there are any suggestions as to how we can maintain the "generously open and friendly tone of the conference", don't hesitate to e-mail me on or off-list. If we have done anything else to offend anyone while trying to organize this conference, drop me a line.

Best,
Meredith
On Mar 19, 2014, at 12:40 AM, "Greer, Jill" <Greer-J at MSSU.EDU<mailto:Greer-J at MSSU.EDU>> wrote


Dear Meredith, Bryan, and Matea,

A couple of questions/comments:  Is there no possibility of less expensive dorm space?  A shorter walk and/or less expense might make the conference more friendly to a larger number of folks.  Also,  it seems a little formal to be going through linguist list rather than directly to the organizer's emails,  regardless of links provided.  Yes,  I'm sorry to sound like a grumpy old Luddite,  but surely  linguists of all people ought to be cognizant of the meta-communicative message of relying on 3rd party providers for 'ease' , so to speak, rather than actual person-to-person correspondence?

Forgive me for the complaints.  This meeting date is a bit early in the summer for my calendar,  and I'm not really sure I'm up to going to a Siouan conference without Bob just yet anyway.  No doubt everyone is still reeling under that weight, too.  Perhaps the proceedings could be shared with the list?  Rory was the only  one kind enough to actually share his paper from last summer's meeting.

But for future collegiality with fellow Siouanists,  perhaps I'm not too far out of line to request that the generously open and friendly tone of the conference not be replaced with the rather frenzied pace of the "standard"  linguistics meeting.

In the meantime,  thank you for the willingness to host,  and I hope that perhaps the beginning of some kind of Festschrift for Bob could begin to emerge from the group sorrow.

Sincerely yours,
Jill Greer















On Mar 18, 2014, at 10:41 PM, Meredith Johnson <majohnson25 at WISC.EDU<mailto:majohnson25 at WISC.EDU>>
wrote:


Dear all,

We have a couple of updates about the upcoming 34th Siouan and Caddoan Languages Conference, to be held Friday, May 23 to Sunday, May 25 at the University of Wisconsin-Madison.

The conference will be held at Memorial Union, which is on the University of Wisconsin campus in downtown Madison. We have reserved a block of rooms at the Hampton Inn, which is the closest hotel to the conference site (less than a 10 minute walk away). The special conference rate is $119/night for a double room from May 22-25. The rate is available until April 22, and you can access this rate from the following link: http://hamptoninn.hilton.com/en/hp/groups/personalized/M/MSNBJHX-ALC-20140522/index.jhtml

If you're on a tighter budget, we suggest finding a hotel on the west side of Madison and taking a bus to the conference. Bus schedules and Google transit planner are available here: http://www.cityofmadison.com/metro/ Please note that there are different schedules for the work week and weekend.

Please see attached for a (very) tentative schedule. If you'd like to secure one of the spots on this schedule, remember to submit an abstract online at http://linguistlist.org/confcustom/SCLC34 by this Sunday, March 23! :)

Lastly, we hope to have registration available shortly! We are still waiting for confirmation on our conference funding. If it comes through (fingers crossed!), registration will be free, and there will be a subsidized conference dinner. We will let you know as soon as we do!

We hope to have more info for you soon, but in the meantime, please feel free to e-mail with any questions. Also check our new website https://sites.google.com/site/34sclc/accomodations for updates and additional information.

All the best,
Meredith Johnson
Bryan Rosen
Matea Schuck
SCLC 34 Organizers

<SCLC prelim schedule.pdf>



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From jgoodtracks at GMAIL.COM  Wed Mar 19 21:27:50 2014
From: jgoodtracks at GMAIL.COM (Jimm Goodtracks)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2014 16:27:50 -0500
Subject: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34
In-Reply-To: <53299FD70200008E000AE808@hermes.wsc.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.19.MAR.2014.162750.0500.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

Dear List members and associates:

I very much agree with Catherine, that the greater tribute to Bob is to attend the conference, and continue his love and his life?s work.  No! Physically Bob will not be present except via photos and other material items brought in his name.  However, Bob will definitely be at the conference, because he lives within each of us to whom he has contributed so much to our own being, knowledge and presence.  It was he and John Koontz some thirty years ago that urged my attendance.  Yes, I do indeed anticipate the spirit of his person to be amongst us.

In another note, how close are the Super 8 Motels, Circle 6 and other economy motels to the conference site.  Some of us do not have large personal incomes, and others of us blessed with some kind of a grant wish to make the better, more economical use of the funds.  How big is Madison, as compared to Lincoln and Lawrence? 

And I am unsure about going through some Linguist List, when we have our own Siouan List.  If I don?t see it here, I for my part, am not hunting around on the internet.  I did find the personal conference website.  I will have to bookmark it.  When the conference was at White Cloud, we simply sent out notices and updates to the whole list as they became available, without anyone prompting us by going on line to find us or a special web site for updates.   Just saying.....

I underline Catherine?s Thank You (Ah?, Wibla ha [if that?s correct P/Om], W?nawerihinwi ke and Migwetch) to the organization committee for your tremendous undertaking of accepting the organization of the SCLC which is no small task.  Like your predecessors, your committee will craft another successful and enjoyable conference, that will be remembered in succeeding years ahead.  The success of the White Cloud conference is summed up in the person of Saul Schwartz.  He was the nucleus, the legs, arms, and body that weaved it all into a smooth beautiful composition and presentation, as my own contribution was minimal and marked with medical complications.  May no complications be your reality in Madison.

Like Catherine, I too will not be making a presentation, as I have all I can say grace over on my plate at this time.  However, I hear that one of our assistants is seriously considering presenting on our current CAAP grant, and Saul has thought of revealing the true author of one of the IOM?s most enabling resources that has long been credited to another individual.

T?rigunda
Jimm

From: Catherine Rudin 
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2014 1:47 PM
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu 
Subject: Re: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34

The link works fine for me.  

Jill, I certainly share your sense of loss, but it seems to me the last thing Bob would have wanted is for folks to not attend the conference because he won't be there.  Let's all go honor his life by continuing the work he loved.  

Meredith, Bryan, and Matea THANK YOU for an outstanding job organizing so far -- I've been delighted to see timely information and reminders not only on the Siouan list but also on LinguistList.  The SCLC has varied widely over the years -- each organizer does it a little differently, and that's fine.  I don't see anything closed or unfriendly in using an online system for submitting abstracts.  I'm not planning on giving a talk this year (alas, too overbooked to get around to writing anything up) -- but I definitely plan to attend and am looking forward to it. 

Catherine

>>> Meredith Johnson <majohnson25 at WISC.EDU> 3/19/2014 11:52 AM >>>
Hi again all,

Hmm, that's strange. All three of the organizers tried it, and several people have successfully uploaded abstracts. I'm guessing Linguist List was just updating the website. If you have trouble, I would suggest trying it again a little later. If anyone has continual trouble, please let me know, and I'll contact Linguist List.

Best,
Meredith

On Mar 19, 2014, at 7:49 AM, Jimm Goodtracks <jgoodtracks at GMAIL.COM> wrote


  For your information, I was unable to connect with the link below on conference program -   http://linguistlist.org/confcustom/SCLC34

  From: Meredith Johnson 
  Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2014 1:01 AM
  To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu 
  Subject: Re: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34

  Hi all, 

  A couple of quick responses to Jill's questions, which I am responding to on list in case others are interested.

  Dorm space: to the best of our knowledge, there is no available dorm space. The conference venue is also on the edge of campus, and all dorms would actually be further away than the hotel. Having the conference in an urban setting unfortunately has its drawbacks: we could either choose a convenient hotel to get a block of rooms in, or a somewhat cheaper one that would require a long bus ride for participants. 

  As for going through linguist list: We certainly were not trying to be formal; there are just three organizers and we all would like access to all abstracts submitted. I have accepted abstracts that were e-mailed to me, and if anyone else would prefer to do that, I will happily accept them and pass them on to the other organizers. All other correspondence will be done "person-to-person."

  Of course, if there are any suggestions as to how we can maintain the "generously open and friendly tone of the conference", don't hesitate to e-mail me on or off-list. If we have done anything else to offend anyone while trying to organize this conference, drop me a line.

  Best,
  Meredith
  On Mar 19, 2014, at 12:40 AM, "Greer, Jill" <Greer-J at MSSU.EDU> wrote


    Dear Meredith, Bryan, and Matea,

    A couple of questions/comments:  Is there no possibility of less expensive dorm space?  A shorter walk and/or less expense might make the conference more friendly to a larger number of folks.  Also,  it seems a little formal to be going through linguist list rather than directly to the organizer's emails,  regardless of links provided.  Yes,  I'm sorry to sound like a grumpy old Luddite,  but surely  linguists of all people ought to be cognizant of the meta-communicative message of relying on 3rd party providers for 'ease' , so to speak, rather than actual person-to-person correspondence?  

    Forgive me for the complaints.  This meeting date is a bit early in the summer for my calendar,  and I'm not really sure I'm up to going to a Siouan conference without Bob just yet anyway.  No doubt everyone is still reeling under that weight, too.  Perhaps the proceedings could be shared with the list?  Rory was the only  one kind enough to actually share his paper from last summer's meeting.  

    But for future collegiality with fellow Siouanists,  perhaps I'm not too far out of line to request that the generously open and friendly tone of the conference not be replaced with the rather frenzied pace of the "standard"  linguistics meeting.  

    In the meantime,  thank you for the willingness to host,  and I hope that perhaps the beginning of some kind of Festschrift for Bob could begin to emerge from the group sorrow.  

    Sincerely yours,
    Jill Greer











        



    On Mar 18, 2014, at 10:41 PM, Meredith Johnson <majohnson25 at WISC.EDU>
    wrote:


      Dear all,

      We have a couple of updates about the upcoming 34th Siouan and Caddoan Languages Conference, to be held Friday, May 23 to Sunday, May 25 at the University of Wisconsin-Madison.

      The conference will be held at Memorial Union, which is on the University of Wisconsin campus in downtown Madison. We have reserved a block of rooms at the Hampton Inn, which is the closest hotel to the conference site (less than a 10 minute walk away). The special conference rate is $119/night for a double room from May 22-25. The rate is available until April 22, and you can access this rate from the following link: http://hamptoninn.hilton.com/en/hp/groups/personalized/M/MSNBJHX-ALC-20140522/index.jhtml

      If you're on a tighter budget, we suggest finding a hotel on the west side of Madison and taking a bus to the conference. Bus schedules and Google transit planner are available here: http://www.cityofmadison.com/metro/ Please note that there are different schedules for the work week and weekend.

      Please see attached for a (very) tentative schedule. If you?d like to secure one of the spots on this schedule, remember to submit an abstract online at http://linguistlist.org/confcustom/SCLC34 by this Sunday, March 23! :)

      Lastly, we hope to have registration available shortly! We are still waiting for confirmation on our conference funding. If it comes through (fingers crossed!), registration will be free, and there will be a subsidized conference dinner. We will let you know as soon as we do!

      We hope to have more info for you soon, but in the meantime, please feel free to e-mail with any questions. Also check our new website https://sites.google.com/site/34sclc/accomodations for updates and additional information.

      All the best,
      Meredith Johnson
      Bryan Rosen
      Matea Schuck
      SCLC 34 Organizers

      <SCLC prelim schedule.pdf> 



    This email may contain identifiable personal information that is subject to protection under state and federal law. This information is intended for the use of the individual named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited and may be punishable by law. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify us immediately by electronic mail (reply). 

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From carudin1 at WSC.EDU  Thu Mar 20 00:51:14 2014
From: carudin1 at WSC.EDU (Catherine Rudin)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2014 19:51:14 -0500
Subject: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34
Message-ID: <WED.19.MAR.2014.195114.0500.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

Festschrift is a great idea.  Let's do it!
Catherine

>>> Rory Larson  03/19/14 3:18 PM >>>
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1.0in;}div.WordSection1{page:WordSection1;}-->I agree.  Thanks very much
to Meredith, Bryan and Matea for all their work in organizing this
conference.  I know Bob was really looking forward to attending it.  And
Jill, thankyou for the proposal that we do a Festschrift for Bob.  I
think that*s an absolutely wonderful idea, and I hope you will be active
in shepherding it along.  :)
 
Best,
Rory
 
 
From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu]On Behalf Of
David Kaufman
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2014 2:36 PM
To: SIOUAN at LISTSERV.UNL.EDU
Subject: Re: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34

 
I must echo Catherine's sentiments.  Although Bob's passing is a loss to
us all, he would have tried to be at the conference if he still could,
and, in spirit, he will still be there.  The conference would be a good
opportunity for all of us to talk about memories of Bob and to perhaps
plan a Festschrift in his honor as Jill proposed.   
 

As a former SCLC organizer, I also want to commend the work that the
three organizers are doing.  It is not easy getting everything organized
and keeping everyone happy, so I can sympathize with the work they have
ahead of them.  Bob welcomed newcomers, including younger people, who
will be the future of Siouan linguistics.  Meredith, Bryan, and Matea
are young newcomers and have taken on a big responsibility in organizing
this year's conference.  Let's hope we have even more newcomers who are
as dedicated and committed to Siouan linguistics as they are!

 

Things will get worked out.  Hope to see all of you in May!

 

Dave




David Kaufman

Linguistic Anthropology PhD candidate, University of Kansas

Director, Kaw Nation Language Program


 
On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 1:47 PM, Catherine Rudin <CaRudin1 at wsc.edu>
wrote:
The link works fine for me. 

 

Jill, I certainly share your sense of loss, but it seems to me the last
thing Bob would have wanted is for folks to not attend the conference
because he won't be there.  Let's all go honor his life by continuing
the work he loved.  

 

Meredith, Bryan, and Matea THANK YOU for an outstanding job organizing
so far -- I've been delighted to see timely information and reminders
not only on the Siouan list but also on LinguistList.  The SCLC has
varied widely over the years -- each organizer does it a little
differently, and that's fine.  I don't see anything closed or unfriendly
in using an online system for submitting abstracts.  I'm not planning on
giving a talk this year (alas, too overbooked to get around to writing
anything up) -- but I definitely plan to attend and am looking forward
to it.

 

Catherine


>>> Meredith Johnson <majohnson25 at WISC.EDU> 3/19/2014 11:52 AM >>>
Hi again all,

 

Hmm, that's strange. All three of the organizers tried it, and several
people have successfully uploaded abstracts. I'm guessing Linguist List
was just updating the website. If you have trouble, I would suggest
trying it again a little later. If anyone has continual trouble, please
let me know, and I'll contact Linguist List.

 

Best,

Meredith
On Mar 19, 2014, at 7:49 AM, Jimm Goodtracks <jgoodtracks at GMAIL.COM>
wrote




For your information, I was unable to connect with the link below on
conference program -  http://linguistlist.org/confcustom/SCLC34

 

From:Meredith Johnson 

Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2014 1:01 AM

To:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu 

Subject: Re: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34



 


Hi all,
 

A couple of quick responses to Jill's questions, which I am responding
to on list in case others are interested.

 

Dorm space: to the best of our knowledge, there is no available dorm
space. The conference venue is also on the edge of campus, and all dorms
would actually be further away than the hotel. Having the conference in
an urban setting unfortunately has its drawbacks: we could either choose
a convenient hotel to get a block of rooms in, or a somewhat cheaper one
that would require a long bus ride for participants.

 

As for going through linguist list: We certainly were not trying to be
formal; there are just three organizers and we all would like access to
all abstracts submitted. I have accepted abstracts that were e-mailed to
me, and if anyone else would prefer to do that, I will happily accept
them and pass them on to the other organizers. All other correspondence
will be done "person-to-person."

 

Of course, if there are any suggestions as to how we can maintain the
"generously open and friendly tone of the conference", don't hesitate to
e-mail me on or off-list. If we have done anything else to offend anyone
while trying to organize this conference, drop me a line.

 

Best,

Meredith

On Mar 19, 2014, at 12:40 AM, "Greer, Jill" <Greer-J at MSSU.EDU> wrote




Dear Meredith, Bryan, and Matea,

 

A couple of questions/comments:  Is there no possibility of less
expensive dorm space?  A shorter walk and/or less expense might make the
conference more friendly to a larger number of folks.  Also,  it seems a
little formal to be going through linguist list rather than directly to
the organizer's emails,  regardless of links provided.  Yes,  I'm sorry
to sound like a grumpy old Luddite,  but surely  linguists of all people
ought to be cognizant of the meta-communicative message of relying on
3rd party providers for 'ease' , so to speak, rather than actual
person-to-person correspondence? 

 

Forgive me for the complaints.  This meeting date is a bit early in the
summer for my calendar,  and I'm not really sure I'm up to going to a
Siouan conference without Bob just yet anyway.  No doubt everyone is
still reeling under that weight, too.  Perhaps the proceedings could be
shared with the list?  Rory was the only  one kind enough to actually
share his paper from last summer's meeting. 

 

But for future collegiality with fellow Siouanists,  perhaps I'm not too
far out of line to request that the generously open and friendly tone of
the conference not be replaced with the rather frenzied pace of the
"standard"  linguistics meeting.  

 

In the meantime,  thank you for the willingness to host,  and I hope
that perhaps the beginning of some kind of Festschrift for Bob could
begin to emerge from the group sorrow. 

 

Sincerely yours,

Jill Greer

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

   

 

 

 

On Mar 18, 2014, at 10:41 PM, Meredith Johnson <majohnson25 at WISC.EDU>

wrote:




Dear all,

 

We have a couple of updates about the upcoming 34th Siouan and Caddoan
Languages Conference, to be held Friday, May 23 to Sunday, May 25 at the
University of Wisconsin-Madison.

 

The conference will be held at Memorial Union, which is on the
University of Wisconsin campus in downtown Madison. We have reserved a
block of rooms at the Hampton Inn, which is the closest hotel to the
conference site (less than a 10 minute walk away). The special
conference rate is $119/night for a double room from May 22-25. The rate
is available until April 22, and you can access this rate from the
following
link:http://hamptoninn.hilton.com/en/hp/groups/personalized/M/MSNBJHX-ALC-20140522/index.jhtml

 

If you're on a tighter budget, we suggest finding a hotel on the west
side of Madison and taking a bus to the conference. Bus schedules and
Google transit planner are available here:
http://www.cityofmadison.com/metro/ Please note that there are different
schedules for the work week and weekend.

 

Please see attached for a (very) tentative schedule. If you*d like to
secure one of the spots on this schedule, remember to submit an abstract
online athttp://linguistlist.org/confcustom/SCLC34 by this Sunday, March
23! :)

 

Lastly, we hope to have registration available shortly! We are still
waiting for confirmation on our conference funding. If it comes through
(fingers crossed!), registration will be free, and there will be a
subsidized conference dinner. We will let you know as soon as we do!

 

We hope to have more info for you soon, but in the meantime, please feel
free to e-mail with any questions. Also check our new
websitehttps://sites.google.com/site/34sclc/accomodations for updates
and additional information.

 

All the best,

Meredith Johnson

Bryan Rosen

Matea Schuck

SCLC 34 Organizers

 




 




This email may contain identifiable personal information that is subject
to protection under state and federal law. This information is intended
for the use of the individual named above. If you are not the intended
recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of
the contents of this information is prohibited and may be punishable by
law. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please
notify us immediately by electronic mail (reply).


 







 



 



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From carudin1 at WSC.EDU  Thu Mar 20 00:59:47 2014
From: carudin1 at WSC.EDU (Catherine Rudin)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2014 19:59:47 -0500
Subject: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34
Message-ID: <WED.19.MAR.2014.195947.0500.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

Jimm, Madison is bigger than Lincoln and Lawrence, but not a whole lot bigger.  I'm sure you could find an affordable motel within a 15 or 20 minute drive from downtown/campus.  Parking near campus can be tricky, but there's a public parking garage just a couple of blocks from the Union (where the conference will be held) so that shouldn't be a problem. Madison has a good bus system so it might be convenient to leave the car at a motel and take the bus in.   
Catherine

>>> Jimm Goodtracks  03/19/14 4:29 PM >>>
In another note, how close are the Super 8 Motels, Circle 6 and other economy motels to the conference site.  Some of us do not have large personal incomes, and others of us blessed with some kind of a grant wish to make the better, more economical use of the funds.  How big is Madison, as compared to Lincoln and Lawrence?  



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From majohnson25 at WISC.EDU  Thu Mar 20 04:49:11 2014
From: majohnson25 at WISC.EDU (Meredith Johnson)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2014 23:49:11 -0500
Subject: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34
In-Reply-To: <C1ADF3F82DAF47FDAC28AF824E245160@AsusLaptop>
Message-ID: <WED.19.MAR.2014.234911.0500.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

Dear all,

Thank you for all the questions, comments and feedback. Here are some responses, and please let me know if I missed anything.

A few people in this thread have mentioned doing something at the conference to honor Dr. Rankin, which all of the organizers are very much in favor of! Is anyone willing to take the lead on this? If someone could take the initiative and let us know how much time you would like to devote to this, we will put it on the schedule right away. Also of course let us know if you need anything else from us to help put this together!

With respect to accommodations in Madison. There are two Super 8 hotels in Madison. The Madison South location is 3.3 miles from the conference site, which would be a 30 minute bus ride. This Madison East location is a little bit cheaper, but it is 7.3 miles away and a 45 minute bus ride. There's also an Econo Lodge on E Washington that is 7 miles/60 min bus ride away, and the Motel 6 Madison North location is 6 miles/40 minute bus ride away.

Madison is home to a Big Ten university which hosts athletic events, conferences, and other world-renowned events throughout the year.  This is why hotel space near the campus is higher in cost. It's not a huge city, but the downtown ares is located on an isthmus, so space is at a premium and costs reflect that. We wanted to make the conference as cheap and accessible as possible, which is why we opted for free conference space on campus rather than renting out space at a hotel, which would necessitated the charging of a conference fee. We chose a convenient hotel for our block of rooms, since sharing a room at that hotel would be cheaper than getting a single room farther out. We are three grad students organizing the conference, and we often travel to conferences with no funding, so we certainly are sensitive to costs of attending conferences. We recommend either sharing rooms at a hotel by campus, or taking a bus from a more remote hotel for those on a tight budget.

To address your point about Linguist List, Linguist List is an expansive web site utilized by tens of thousands of linguists worldwide to access any all things linguistics-related in the academic field.  We chose to utilize Linguist List for our conference announcement and abstract submission, as many other conferences worldwide do, because of its convenience.  We wanted one central place from which to access and review abstract submissions, to ensure that everything gets handled in an efficient and timely manner, and minimizing the chance of something getting missed lost in communication between the three of us. We're not using Linguist List instead of the Siouan List, we are just taking advantage of certain utilities to help make planning easier.

We also thought it would be advantageous to have one central website for all conference related information so that attendees do not have to sift through old emails to find relevant information. We also recognize the conference might be of interest to people that are not on the Siouan list, so we want all information widely available. (That's also why the conference was announced both here and on the Linguist List). We plan on disseminating all information through the Siouan list as well, so no one needs to rely on checking the website if they do not want to.

We hope this helps, and please let us know if you have any further questions.

Best,
Meredith
On Mar 19, 2014, at 4:27 PM, Jimm Goodtracks <jgoodtracks at GMAIL.COM> wrote:

> Dear List members and associates:
>  
> I very much agree with Catherine, that the greater tribute to Bob is to attend the conference, and continue his love and his life?s work.  No! Physically Bob will not be present except via photos and other material items brought in his name.  However, Bob will definitely be at the conference, because he lives within each of us to whom he has contributed so much to our own being, knowledge and presence.  It was he and John Koontz some thirty years ago that urged my attendance.  Yes, I do indeed anticipate the spirit of his person to be amongst us.
>  
> In another note, how close are the Super 8 Motels, Circle 6 and other economy motels to the conference site.  Some of us do not have large personal incomes, and others of us blessed with some kind of a grant wish to make the better, more economical use of the funds.  How big is Madison, as compared to Lincoln and Lawrence?
>  
> And I am unsure about going through some Linguist List, when we have our own Siouan List.  If I don?t see it here, I for my part, am not hunting around on the internet.  I did find the personal conference website.  I will have to bookmark it.  When the conference was at White Cloud, we simply sent out notices and updates to the whole list as they became available, without anyone prompting us by going on line to find us or a special web site for updates.   Just saying.....
>  
> I underline Catherine?s Thank You (Ah?, Wibla ha [if that?s correct P/Om], W?nawerihinwi ke and Migwetch) to the organization committee for your tremendous undertaking of accepting the organization of the SCLC which is no small task.  Like your predecessors, your committee will craft another successful and enjoyable conference, that will be remembered in succeeding years ahead.  The success of the White Cloud conference is summed up in the person of Saul Schwartz.  He was the nucleus, the legs, arms, and body that weaved it all into a smooth beautiful composition and presentation, as my own contribution was minimal and marked with medical complications.  May no complications be your reality in Madison.
>  
> Like Catherine, I too will not be making a presentation, as I have all I can say grace over on my plate at this time.  However, I hear that one of our assistants is seriously considering presenting on our current CAAP grant, and Saul has thought of revealing the true author of one of the IOM?s most enabling resources that has long been credited to another individual.
>  
> T?rigunda
> Jimm
>  
> From: Catherine Rudin
> Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2014 1:47 PM
> To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
> Subject: Re: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34
>  
> The link works fine for me. 
>  
> Jill, I certainly share your sense of loss, but it seems to me the last thing Bob would have wanted is for folks to not attend the conference because he won't be there.  Let's all go honor his life by continuing the work he loved. 
>  
> Meredith, Bryan, and Matea THANK YOU for an outstanding job organizing so far -- I've been delighted to see timely information and reminders not only on the Siouan list but also on LinguistList.  The SCLC has varied widely over the years -- each organizer does it a little differently, and that's fine.  I don't see anything closed or unfriendly in using an online system for submitting abstracts.  I'm not planning on giving a talk this year (alas, too overbooked to get around to writing anything up) -- but I definitely plan to attend and am looking forward to it.
>  
> Catherine
> 
> >>> Meredith Johnson <majohnson25 at WISC.EDU> 3/19/2014 11:52 AM >>>
> Hi again all,
>  
> Hmm, that's strange. All three of the organizers tried it, and several people have successfully uploaded abstracts. I'm guessing Linguist List was just updating the website. If you have trouble, I would suggest trying it again a little later. If anyone has continual trouble, please let me know, and I'll contact Linguist List.
>  
> Best,
> Meredith
> On Mar 19, 2014, at 7:49 AM, Jimm Goodtracks <jgoodtracks at GMAIL.COM> wrote
> 
>> For your information, I was unable to connect with the link below on conference program -   http://linguistlist.org/confcustom/SCLC34
>>  
>> From: Meredith Johnson
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2014 1:01 AM
>> To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
>> Subject: Re: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34
>>  
>> Hi all,
>>  
>> A couple of quick responses to Jill's questions, which I am responding to on list in case others are interested.
>>  
>> Dorm space: to the best of our knowledge, there is no available dorm space. The conference venue is also on the edge of campus, and all dorms would actually be further away than the hotel. Having the conference in an urban setting unfortunately has its drawbacks: we could either choose a convenient hotel to get a block of rooms in, or a somewhat cheaper one that would require a long bus ride for participants.
>>  
>> As for going through linguist list: We certainly were not trying to be formal; there are just three organizers and we all would like access to all abstracts submitted. I have accepted abstracts that were e-mailed to me, and if anyone else would prefer to do that, I will happily accept them and pass them on to the other organizers. All other correspondence will be done "person-to-person."
>>  
>> Of course, if there are any suggestions as to how we can maintain the "generously open and friendly tone of the conference", don't hesitate to e-mail me on or off-list. If we have done anything else to offend anyone while trying to organize this conference, drop me a line.
>>  
>> Best,
>> Meredith
>> On Mar 19, 2014, at 12:40 AM, "Greer, Jill" <Greer-J at MSSU.EDU> wrote
>> 
>>> Dear Meredith, Bryan, and Matea,
>>>  
>>> A couple of questions/comments:  Is there no possibility of less expensive dorm space?  A shorter walk and/or less expense might make the conference more friendly to a larger number of folks.  Also,  it seems a little formal to be going through linguist list rather than directly to the organizer's emails,  regardless of links provided.  Yes,  I'm sorry to sound like a grumpy old Luddite,  but surely  linguists of all people ought to be cognizant of the meta-communicative message of relying on 3rd party providers for 'ease' , so to speak, rather than actual person-to-person correspondence? 
>>>  
>>> Forgive me for the complaints.  This meeting date is a bit early in the summer for my calendar,  and I'm not really sure I'm up to going to a Siouan conference without Bob just yet anyway.  No doubt everyone is still reeling under that weight, too.  Perhaps the proceedings could be shared with the list?  Rory was the only  one kind enough to actually share his paper from last summer's meeting. 
>>>  
>>> But for future collegiality with fellow Siouanists,  perhaps I'm not too far out of line to request that the generously open and friendly tone of the conference not be replaced with the rather frenzied pace of the "standard"  linguistics meeting. 
>>>  
>>> In the meantime,  thank you for the willingness to host,  and I hope that perhaps the beginning of some kind of Festschrift for Bob could begin to emerge from the group sorrow. 
>>>  
>>> Sincerely yours,
>>> Jill Greer
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>>    
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>> On Mar 18, 2014, at 10:41 PM, Meredith Johnson <majohnson25 at WISC.EDU>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Dear all,
>>>>  
>>>> We have a couple of updates about the upcoming 34th Siouan and Caddoan Languages Conference, to be held Friday, May 23 to Sunday, May 25 at the University of Wisconsin-Madison.
>>>>  
>>>> The conference will be held at Memorial Union, which is on the University of Wisconsin campus in downtown Madison. We have reserved a block of rooms at the Hampton Inn, which is the closest hotel to the conference site (less than a 10 minute walk away). The special conference rate is $119/night for a double room from May 22-25. The rate is available until April 22, and you can access this rate from the following link: http://hamptoninn.hilton.com/en/hp/groups/personalized/M/MSNBJHX-ALC-20140522/index.jhtml
>>>>  
>>>> If you're on a tighter budget, we suggest finding a hotel on the west side of Madison and taking a bus to the conference. Bus schedules and Google transit planner are available here: http://www.cityofmadison.com/metro/ Please note that there are different schedules for the work week and weekend.
>>>>  
>>>> Please see attached for a (very) tentative schedule. If you?d like to secure one of the spots on this schedule, remember to submit an abstract online at http://linguistlist.org/confcustom/SCLC34 by this Sunday, March 23! :)
>>>>  
>>>> Lastly, we hope to have registration available shortly! We are still waiting for confirmation on our conference funding. If it comes through (fingers crossed!), registration will be free, and there will be a subsidized conference dinner. We will let you know as soon as we do!
>>>>  
>>>> We hope to have more info for you soon, but in the meantime, please feel free to e-mail with any questions. Also check our new website https://sites.google.com/site/34sclc/accomodations for updates and additional information.
>>>>  
>>>> All the best,
>>>> Meredith Johnson
>>>> Bryan Rosen
>>>> Matea Schuck
>>>> SCLC 34 Organizers
>>>>  
>>>> <SCLC prelim schedule.pdf>
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> 
>>> This email may contain identifiable personal information that is subject to protection under state and federal law. This information is intended for the use of the individual named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited and may be punishable by law. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify us immediately by electronic mail (reply).
>> 
>>  
> 
>  

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From Johannes.Helmbrecht at SPRACHLIT.UNI-REGENSBURG.DE  Thu Mar 20 08:46:10 2014
From: Johannes.Helmbrecht at SPRACHLIT.UNI-REGENSBURG.DE (Johannes Helmbrecht)
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 09:46:10 +0100
Subject: Antw: Re: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34
In-Reply-To: <5329F5320200008E000AE8D4@hermes.wsc.edu>
Message-ID: <THU.20.MAR.2014.094610.0100.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

Dear Siouanists,

I strongly agree with Cathrin and Gill that we should honor Bob's work by
continuing our research on Siouan languages and by producing a festschrift. One
 idea in this direction could be that we put together the papers we had
produced for our Comparative Siouan Grammar project. I know that Bob loved this
project although we never managed to compile a volume.

All the best
Johannes
 

-- 
 
Professor Dr. Johannes Helmbrecht
Lehrstuhl f?r Allgemeine und Vergleichende Sprachwissenschaft
Fakult?t f?r Sprach-, Literatur- und Kulturwissenschaften
Universit?t Regensburg
Universit?tsstrasse 31
D-93053 Regensburg

Tel. 0941/943-3388
Tel. 0941/943-3387 (Sekretariat)
Fax. 0941/943-2429
 
Website:
www-avs.uni-regensburg.de
 
E-mail:
johannes.helmbrecht at sprachlit.uni-regensburg.de
 
 


>>> Catherine Rudin <carudin1 at WSC.EDU> schrieb am 20.03.2014 um 01:51:
> Festschrift is a great idea.  Let's do it!
> Catherine
> 
>>>> Rory Larson  03/19/14 3:18 PM >>>
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> WordSection1{size:8.5in 11.0in;margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in
> 1.0in;}div.WordSection1{page:WordSection1;}-->I agree.  Thanks very much
> to Meredith, Bryan and Matea for all their work in organizing this
> conference.  I know Bob was really looking forward to attending it.  And
> Jill, thankyou for the proposal that we do a Festschrift for Bob.  I
> think that*s an absolutely wonderful idea, and I hope you will be active
> in shepherding it along.  :)
>  
> Best,
> Rory
>  
>  
> From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu]On Behalf Of
> David Kaufman
> Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2014 2:36 PM
> To: SIOUAN at LISTSERV.UNL.EDU 
> Subject: Re: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34
> 
>  
> I must echo Catherine's sentiments.  Although Bob's passing is a loss to
> us all, he would have tried to be at the conference if he still could,
> and, in spirit, he will still be there.  The conference would be a good
> opportunity for all of us to talk about memories of Bob and to perhaps
> plan a Festschrift in his honor as Jill proposed.   
>  
> 
> As a former SCLC organizer, I also want to commend the work that the
> three organizers are doing.  It is not easy getting everything organized
> and keeping everyone happy, so I can sympathize with the work they have
> ahead of them.  Bob welcomed newcomers, including younger people, who
> will be the future of Siouan linguistics.  Meredith, Bryan, and Matea
> are young newcomers and have taken on a big responsibility in organizing
> this year's conference.  Let's hope we have even more newcomers who are
> as dedicated and committed to Siouan linguistics as they are!
> 
>  
> 
> Things will get worked out.  Hope to see all of you in May!
> 
>  
> 
> Dave
> 
> 
> 
> 
> David Kaufman
> 
> Linguistic Anthropology PhD candidate, University of Kansas
> 
> Director, Kaw Nation Language Program
> 
> 
>  
> On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 1:47 PM, Catherine Rudin <CaRudin1 at wsc.edu>
> wrote:
> The link works fine for me. 
> 
>  
> 
> Jill, I certainly share your sense of loss, but it seems to me the last
> thing Bob would have wanted is for folks to not attend the conference
> because he won't be there.  Let's all go honor his life by continuing
> the work he loved.  
> 
>  
> 
> Meredith, Bryan, and Matea THANK YOU for an outstanding job organizing
> so far -- I've been delighted to see timely information and reminders
> not only on the Siouan list but also on LinguistList.  The SCLC has
> varied widely over the years -- each organizer does it a little
> differently, and that's fine.  I don't see anything closed or unfriendly
> in using an online system for submitting abstracts.  I'm not planning on
> giving a talk this year (alas, too overbooked to get around to writing
> anything up) -- but I definitely plan to attend and am looking forward
> to it.
> 
>  
> 
> Catherine
> 
> 
>>>> Meredith Johnson <majohnson25 at WISC.EDU> 3/19/2014 11:52 AM >>>
> Hi again all,
> 
>  
> 
> Hmm, that's strange. All three of the organizers tried it, and several
> people have successfully uploaded abstracts. I'm guessing Linguist List
> was just updating the website. If you have trouble, I would suggest
> trying it again a little later. If anyone has continual trouble, please
> let me know, and I'll contact Linguist List.
> 
>  
> 
> Best,
> 
> Meredith
> On Mar 19, 2014, at 7:49 AM, Jimm Goodtracks <jgoodtracks at GMAIL.COM>
> wrote
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For your information, I was unable to connect with the link below on
> conference program -  http://linguistlist.org/confcustom/SCLC34 
> 
>  
> 
> From:Meredith Johnson 
> 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2014 1:01 AM
> 
> To:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu 
> 
> Subject: Re: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> Hi all,
>  
> 
> A couple of quick responses to Jill's questions, which I am responding
> to on list in case others are interested.
> 
>  
> 
> Dorm space: to the best of our knowledge, there is no available dorm
> space. The conference venue is also on the edge of campus, and all dorms
> would actually be further away than the hotel. Having the conference in
> an urban setting unfortunately has its drawbacks: we could either choose
> a convenient hotel to get a block of rooms in, or a somewhat cheaper one
> that would require a long bus ride for participants.
> 
>  
> 
> As for going through linguist list: We certainly were not trying to be
> formal; there are just three organizers and we all would like access to
> all abstracts submitted. I have accepted abstracts that were e-mailed to
> me, and if anyone else would prefer to do that, I will happily accept
> them and pass them on to the other organizers. All other correspondence
> will be done "person-to-person."
> 
>  
> 
> Of course, if there are any suggestions as to how we can maintain the
> "generously open and friendly tone of the conference", don't hesitate to
> e-mail me on or off-list. If we have done anything else to offend anyone
> while trying to organize this conference, drop me a line.
> 
>  
> 
> Best,
> 
> Meredith
> 
> On Mar 19, 2014, at 12:40 AM, "Greer, Jill" <Greer-J at MSSU.EDU> wrote
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dear Meredith, Bryan, and Matea,
> 
>  
> 
> A couple of questions/comments:  Is there no possibility of less
> expensive dorm space?  A shorter walk and/or less expense might make the
> conference more friendly to a larger number of folks.  Also,  it seems a
> little formal to be going through linguist list rather than directly to
> the organizer's emails,  regardless of links provided.  Yes,  I'm sorry
> to sound like a grumpy old Luddite,  but surely  linguists of all people
> ought to be cognizant of the meta-communicative message of relying on
> 3rd party providers for 'ease' , so to speak, rather than actual
> person-to-person correspondence? 
> 
>  
> 
> Forgive me for the complaints.  This meeting date is a bit early in the
> summer for my calendar,  and I'm not really sure I'm up to going to a
> Siouan conference without Bob just yet anyway.  No doubt everyone is
> still reeling under that weight, too.  Perhaps the proceedings could be
> shared with the list?  Rory was the only  one kind enough to actually
> share his paper from last summer's meeting. 
> 
>  
> 
> But for future collegiality with fellow Siouanists,  perhaps I'm not too
> far out of line to request that the generously open and friendly tone of
> the conference not be replaced with the rather frenzied pace of the
> "standard"  linguistics meeting.  
> 
>  
> 
> In the meantime,  thank you for the willingness to host,  and I hope
> that perhaps the beginning of some kind of Festschrift for Bob could
> begin to emerge from the group sorrow. 
> 
>  
> 
> Sincerely yours,
> 
> Jill Greer
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>    
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> On Mar 18, 2014, at 10:41 PM, Meredith Johnson <majohnson25 at WISC.EDU>
> 
> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dear all,
> 
>  
> 
> We have a couple of updates about the upcoming 34th Siouan and Caddoan
> Languages Conference, to be held Friday, May 23 to Sunday, May 25 at the
> University of Wisconsin-Madison.
> 
>  
> 
> The conference will be held at Memorial Union, which is on the
> University of Wisconsin campus in downtown Madison. We have reserved a
> block of rooms at the Hampton Inn, which is the closest hotel to the
> conference site (less than a 10 minute walk away). The special
> conference rate is $119/night for a double room from May 22-25. The rate
> is available until April 22, and you can access this rate from the
> following
>
link:http://hamptoninn.hilton.com/en/hp/groups/personalized/M/MSNBJHX-ALC-2014

> 0522/index.jhtml
> 
>  
> 
> If you're on a tighter budget, we suggest finding a hotel on the west
> side of Madison and taking a bus to the conference. Bus schedules and
> Google transit planner are available here:
> http://www.cityofmadison.com/metro/ Please note that there are different
> schedules for the work week and weekend.
> 
>  
> 
> Please see attached for a (very) tentative schedule. If you*d like to
> secure one of the spots on this schedule, remember to submit an abstract
> online athttp://linguistlist.org/confcustom/SCLC34 by this Sunday, March
> 23! :)
> 
>  
> 
> Lastly, we hope to have registration available shortly! We are still
> waiting for confirmation on our conference funding. If it comes through
> (fingers crossed!), registration will be free, and there will be a
> subsidized conference dinner. We will let you know as soon as we do!
> 
>  
> 
> We hope to have more info for you soon, but in the meantime, please feel
> free to e-mail with any questions. Also check our new
> websitehttps://sites.google.com/site/34sclc/accomodations for updates
> and additional information.
> 
>  
> 
> All the best,
> 
> Meredith Johnson
> 
> Bryan Rosen
> 
> Matea Schuck
> 
> SCLC 34 Organizers
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This email may contain identifiable personal information that is subject
> to protection under state and federal law. This information is intended
> for the use of the individual named above. If you are not the intended
> recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of
> the contents of this information is prohibited and may be punishable by
> law. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please
> notify us immediately by electronic mail (reply).
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 


From Granta at EDGEHILL.AC.UK  Thu Mar 20 10:24:31 2014
From: Granta at EDGEHILL.AC.UK (Anthony Grant)
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 10:24:31 +0000
Subject: Antw: Re: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34
In-Reply-To: <532AB8E2020000400005D5E0@gwsmtp1.uni-regensburg.de>
Message-ID: <THU.20.MAR.2014.102431.0000.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

Could I suggest that the festschrift contain some of Bob's inedita - conference papers he wrote up but didn't publish?  He did one or two of these on Quapaw, I believe, and there must be others.

Anthony
________________________________________
From: Siouan Linguistics <SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu> on behalf of Johannes Helmbrecht <Johannes.Helmbrecht at SPRACHLIT.UNI-REGENSBURG.DE>
Sent: 20 March 2014 08:46
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
Subject: Antw: Re: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34

Dear Siouanists,

I strongly agree with Cathrin and Gill that we should honor Bob's work by
continuing our research on Siouan languages and by producing a festschrift. One
 idea in this direction could be that we put together the papers we had
produced for our Comparative Siouan Grammar project. I know that Bob loved this
project although we never managed to compile a volume.

All the best
Johannes


--

Professor Dr. Johannes Helmbrecht
Lehrstuhl f?r Allgemeine und Vergleichende Sprachwissenschaft
Fakult?t f?r Sprach-, Literatur- und Kulturwissenschaften
Universit?t Regensburg
Universit?tsstrasse 31
D-93053 Regensburg

Tel. 0941/943-3388
Tel. 0941/943-3387 (Sekretariat)
Fax. 0941/943-2429

Website:
www-avs.uni-regensburg.de

E-mail:
johannes.helmbrecht at sprachlit.uni-regensburg.de




>>> Catherine Rudin <carudin1 at WSC.EDU> schrieb am 20.03.2014 um 01:51:
> Festschrift is a great idea.  Let's do it!
> Catherine
>
>>>> Rory Larson  03/19/14 3:18 PM >>>
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> WordSection1{size:8.5in 11.0in;margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in
> 1.0in;}div.WordSection1{page:WordSection1;}-->I agree.  Thanks very much
> to Meredith, Bryan and Matea for all their work in organizing this
> conference.  I know Bob was really looking forward to attending it.  And
> Jill, thankyou for the proposal that we do a Festschrift for Bob.  I
> think that*s an absolutely wonderful idea, and I hope you will be active
> in shepherding it along.  :)
>
> Best,
> Rory
>
>
> From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu]On Behalf Of
> David Kaufman
> Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2014 2:36 PM
> To: SIOUAN at LISTSERV.UNL.EDU
> Subject: Re: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34
>
>
> I must echo Catherine's sentiments.  Although Bob's passing is a loss to
> us all, he would have tried to be at the conference if he still could,
> and, in spirit, he will still be there.  The conference would be a good
> opportunity for all of us to talk about memories of Bob and to perhaps
> plan a Festschrift in his honor as Jill proposed.
>
>
> As a former SCLC organizer, I also want to commend the work that the
> three organizers are doing.  It is not easy getting everything organized
> and keeping everyone happy, so I can sympathize with the work they have
> ahead of them.  Bob welcomed newcomers, including younger people, who
> will be the future of Siouan linguistics.  Meredith, Bryan, and Matea
> are young newcomers and have taken on a big responsibility in organizing
> this year's conference.  Let's hope we have even more newcomers who are
> as dedicated and committed to Siouan linguistics as they are!
>
>
>
> Things will get worked out.  Hope to see all of you in May!
>
>
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
> David Kaufman
>
> Linguistic Anthropology PhD candidate, University of Kansas
>
> Director, Kaw Nation Language Program
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 1:47 PM, Catherine Rudin <CaRudin1 at wsc.edu>
> wrote:
> The link works fine for me.
>
>
>
> Jill, I certainly share your sense of loss, but it seems to me the last
> thing Bob would have wanted is for folks to not attend the conference
> because he won't be there.  Let's all go honor his life by continuing
> the work he loved.
>
>
>
> Meredith, Bryan, and Matea THANK YOU for an outstanding job organizing
> so far -- I've been delighted to see timely information and reminders
> not only on the Siouan list but also on LinguistList.  The SCLC has
> varied widely over the years -- each organizer does it a little
> differently, and that's fine.  I don't see anything closed or unfriendly
> in using an online system for submitting abstracts.  I'm not planning on
> giving a talk this year (alas, too overbooked to get around to writing
> anything up) -- but I definitely plan to attend and am looking forward
> to it.
>
>
>
> Catherine
>
>
>>>> Meredith Johnson <majohnson25 at WISC.EDU> 3/19/2014 11:52 AM >>>
> Hi again all,
>
>
>
> Hmm, that's strange. All three of the organizers tried it, and several
> people have successfully uploaded abstracts. I'm guessing Linguist List
> was just updating the website. If you have trouble, I would suggest
> trying it again a little later. If anyone has continual trouble, please
> let me know, and I'll contact Linguist List.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> Meredith
> On Mar 19, 2014, at 7:49 AM, Jimm Goodtracks <jgoodtracks at GMAIL.COM>
> wrote
>
>
>
>
> For your information, I was unable to connect with the link below on
> conference program -  http://linguistlist.org/confcustom/SCLC34
>
>
>
> From:Meredith Johnson
>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2014 1:01 AM
>
> To:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
>
> Subject: Re: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi all,
>
>
> A couple of quick responses to Jill's questions, which I am responding
> to on list in case others are interested.
>
>
>
> Dorm space: to the best of our knowledge, there is no available dorm
> space. The conference venue is also on the edge of campus, and all dorms
> would actually be further away than the hotel. Having the conference in
> an urban setting unfortunately has its drawbacks: we could either choose
> a convenient hotel to get a block of rooms in, or a somewhat cheaper one
> that would require a long bus ride for participants.
>
>
>
> As for going through linguist list: We certainly were not trying to be
> formal; there are just three organizers and we all would like access to
> all abstracts submitted. I have accepted abstracts that were e-mailed to
> me, and if anyone else would prefer to do that, I will happily accept
> them and pass them on to the other organizers. All other correspondence
> will be done "person-to-person."
>
>
>
> Of course, if there are any suggestions as to how we can maintain the
> "generously open and friendly tone of the conference", don't hesitate to
> e-mail me on or off-list. If we have done anything else to offend anyone
> while trying to organize this conference, drop me a line.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> Meredith
>
> On Mar 19, 2014, at 12:40 AM, "Greer, Jill" <Greer-J at MSSU.EDU> wrote
>
>
>
>
> Dear Meredith, Bryan, and Matea,
>
>
>
> A couple of questions/comments:  Is there no possibility of less
> expensive dorm space?  A shorter walk and/or less expense might make the
> conference more friendly to a larger number of folks.  Also,  it seems a
> little formal to be going through linguist list rather than directly to
> the organizer's emails,  regardless of links provided.  Yes,  I'm sorry
> to sound like a grumpy old Luddite,  but surely  linguists of all people
> ought to be cognizant of the meta-communicative message of relying on
> 3rd party providers for 'ease' , so to speak, rather than actual
> person-to-person correspondence?
>
>
>
> Forgive me for the complaints.  This meeting date is a bit early in the
> summer for my calendar,  and I'm not really sure I'm up to going to a
> Siouan conference without Bob just yet anyway.  No doubt everyone is
> still reeling under that weight, too.  Perhaps the proceedings could be
> shared with the list?  Rory was the only  one kind enough to actually
> share his paper from last summer's meeting.
>
>
>
> But for future collegiality with fellow Siouanists,  perhaps I'm not too
> far out of line to request that the generously open and friendly tone of
> the conference not be replaced with the rather frenzied pace of the
> "standard"  linguistics meeting.
>
>
>
> In the meantime,  thank you for the willingness to host,  and I hope
> that perhaps the beginning of some kind of Festschrift for Bob could
> begin to emerge from the group sorrow.
>
>
>
> Sincerely yours,
>
> Jill Greer
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mar 18, 2014, at 10:41 PM, Meredith Johnson <majohnson25 at WISC.EDU>
>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Dear all,
>
>
>
> We have a couple of updates about the upcoming 34th Siouan and Caddoan
> Languages Conference, to be held Friday, May 23 to Sunday, May 25 at the
> University of Wisconsin-Madison.
>
>
>
> The conference will be held at Memorial Union, which is on the
> University of Wisconsin campus in downtown Madison. We have reserved a
> block of rooms at the Hampton Inn, which is the closest hotel to the
> conference site (less than a 10 minute walk away). The special
> conference rate is $119/night for a double room from May 22-25. The rate
> is available until April 22, and you can access this rate from the
> following
>
link:http://hamptoninn.hilton.com/en/hp/groups/personalized/M/MSNBJHX-ALC-2014

> 0522/index.jhtml
>
>
>
> If you're on a tighter budget, we suggest finding a hotel on the west
> side of Madison and taking a bus to the conference. Bus schedules and
> Google transit planner are available here:
> http://www.cityofmadison.com/metro/ Please note that there are different
> schedules for the work week and weekend.
>
>
>
> Please see attached for a (very) tentative schedule. If you*d like to
> secure one of the spots on this schedule, remember to submit an abstract
> online athttp://linguistlist.org/confcustom/SCLC34 by this Sunday, March
> 23! :)
>
>
>
> Lastly, we hope to have registration available shortly! We are still
> waiting for confirmation on our conference funding. If it comes through
> (fingers crossed!), registration will be free, and there will be a
> subsidized conference dinner. We will let you know as soon as we do!
>
>
>
> We hope to have more info for you soon, but in the meantime, please feel
> free to e-mail with any questions. Also check our new
> websitehttps://sites.google.com/site/34sclc/accomodations for updates
> and additional information.
>
>
>
> All the best,
>
> Meredith Johnson
>
> Bryan Rosen
>
> Matea Schuck
>
> SCLC 34 Organizers
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> This email may contain identifiable personal information that is subject
> to protection under state and federal law. This information is intended
> for the use of the individual named above. If you are not the intended
> recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of
> the contents of this information is prohibited and may be punishable by
> law. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please
> notify us immediately by electronic mail (reply).
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________
Edge Hill University
Times Higher University of the Year - shortlisted 2007/8, 2010/11, 2011/12
www.edgehill.ac.uk<http://www.edgehill.ac.uk>
________________________________
This message is private and confidential. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender and remove it from your system. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Edge Hill or associated companies. Edge Hill University may monitor email traffic data and also the content of email for the purposes of security and business communications during staff absence.


From carudin1 at WSC.EDU  Thu Mar 20 13:54:53 2014
From: carudin1 at WSC.EDU (Catherine Rudin)
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 08:54:53 -0500
Subject: Antw: Re: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34
Message-ID: <THU.20.MAR.2014.085453.0500.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

I like both Anthony's and Johannes' festschrift suggestions.  Including
some of Bob's work is a fine idea; there are many such papers and it
would be a fitting tribute. We'd need permission, of course.  Basing the
festschrift around the old comparative Siouan project is also a great
idea; I would love to see that planned volume finally come to pass, or
at least a volume that included some of the papers intended for it.

If a festschrift is to become a reality there are a lot of practical
matters to address ... finding a publisher, setting up a system for
soliciting, accepting, and editing papers, etc.  It's probably a project
best accomplished by a small group of people rather than by whole-list
discussion, once it gets past about the stage we're at now.  May I
suggest that we pick 2 or 3 people for this job?  I'd be willing to be
one of them, though if other folks volunteer I'd also be happy to step
aside and let someone else do it.

Catherine

>>> Anthony Grant  03/20/14 7:41 AM >>>
Could I suggest that the festschrift contain some of Bob's inedita -
conference papers he wrote up but didn't publish?  He did one or two of
these on Quapaw, I believe, and there must be others.

Anthony
________________________________________
From: Siouan Linguistics  on behalf of Johannes Helmbrecht 
Sent: 20 March 2014 08:46
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
Subject: Antw: Re: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34

Dear Siouanists,

I strongly agree with Cathrin and Gill that we should honor Bob's work
by
continuing our research on Siouan languages and by producing a
festschrift. One
 idea in this direction could be that we put together the papers we had
produced for our Comparative Siouan Grammar project. I know that Bob
loved this
project although we never managed to compile a volume.

All the best
Johannes


--

Professor Dr. Johannes Helmbrecht
Lehrstuhl f?r Allgemeine und Vergleichende Sprachwissenschaft
Fakult?t f?r Sprach-, Literatur- und Kulturwissenschaften
Universit?t Regensburg
Universit?tsstrasse 31
D-93053 Regensburg

Tel. 0941/943-3388
Tel. 0941/943-3387 (Sekretariat)
Fax. 0941/943-2429

Website:
www-avs.uni-regensburg.de

E-mail:
johannes.helmbrecht at sprachlit.uni-regensburg.de




>>> Catherine Rudin  schrieb am 20.03.2014 um 01:51:
> Festschrift is a great idea.  Let's do it!
> Catherine
>
>>>> Rory Larson  03/19/14 3:18 PM >>>

I agree.  Thanks very much
> to Meredith, Bryan and Matea for all their work in organizing this
> conference.  I know Bob was really looking forward to attending it. 
And
> Jill, thankyou for the proposal that we do a Festschrift for Bob.  I
> think that*s an absolutely wonderful idea, and I hope you will be
active
> in shepherding it along.  :)
>
> Best,
> Rory
>
>
> From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu]On Behalf Of
> David Kaufman
> Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2014 2:36 PM
> To: SIOUAN at LISTSERV.UNL.EDU
> Subject: Re: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34
>
>
> I must echo Catherine's sentiments.  Although Bob's passing is a loss
to
> us all, he would have tried to be at the conference if he still could,
> and, in spirit, he will still be there.  The conference would be a
good
> opportunity for all of us to talk about memories of Bob and to perhaps
> plan a Festschrift in his honor as Jill proposed.
>
>
> As a former SCLC organizer, I also want to commend the work that the
> three organizers are doing.  It is not easy getting everything
organized
> and keeping everyone happy, so I can sympathize with the work they
have
> ahead of them.  Bob welcomed newcomers, including younger people, who
> will be the future of Siouan linguistics.  Meredith, Bryan, and Matea
> are young newcomers and have taken on a big responsibility in
organizing
> this year's conference.  Let's hope we have even more newcomers who
are
> as dedicated and committed to Siouan linguistics as they are!
>
>
>
> Things will get worked out.  Hope to see all of you in May!
>
>
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
> David Kaufman
>
> Linguistic Anthropology PhD candidate, University of Kansas
>
> Director, Kaw Nation Language Program
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 1:47 PM, Catherine Rudin 
> wrote:
> The link works fine for me.
>
>
>
> Jill, I certainly share your sense of loss, but it seems to me the
last
> thing Bob would have wanted is for folks to not attend the conference
> because he won't be there.  Let's all go honor his life by continuing
> the work he loved.
>
>
>
> Meredith, Bryan, and Matea THANK YOU for an outstanding job organizing
> so far -- I've been delighted to see timely information and reminders
> not only on the Siouan list but also on LinguistList.  The SCLC has
> varied widely over the years -- each organizer does it a little
> differently, and that's fine.  I don't see anything closed or
unfriendly
> in using an online system for submitting abstracts.  I'm not planning
on
> giving a talk this year (alas, too overbooked to get around to writing
> anything up) -- but I definitely plan to attend and am looking forward
> to it.
>
>
>
> Catherine
>
>
>>>> Meredith Johnson  3/19/2014 11:52 AM >>>
> Hi again all,
>
>
>
> Hmm, that's strange. All three of the organizers tried it, and several
> people have successfully uploaded abstracts. I'm guessing Linguist
List
> was just updating the website. If you have trouble, I would suggest
> trying it again a little later. If anyone has continual trouble,
please
> let me know, and I'll contact Linguist List.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> Meredith
> On Mar 19, 2014, at 7:49 AM, Jimm Goodtracks 
> wrote
>
>
>
>
> For your information, I was unable to connect with the link below on
> conference program -  http://linguistlist.org/confcustom/SCLC34
>
>
>
> From:Meredith Johnson
>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2014 1:01 AM
>
> To:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
>
> Subject: Re: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi all,
>
>
> A couple of quick responses to Jill's questions, which I am responding
> to on list in case others are interested.
>
>
>
> Dorm space: to the best of our knowledge, there is no available dorm
> space. The conference venue is also on the edge of campus, and all
dorms
> would actually be further away than the hotel. Having the conference
in
> an urban setting unfortunately has its drawbacks: we could either
choose
> a convenient hotel to get a block of rooms in, or a somewhat cheaper
one
> that would require a long bus ride for participants.
>
>
>
> As for going through linguist list: We certainly were not trying to be
> formal; there are just three organizers and we all would like access
to
> all abstracts submitted. I have accepted abstracts that were e-mailed
to
> me, and if anyone else would prefer to do that, I will happily accept
> them and pass them on to the other organizers. All other
correspondence
> will be done "person-to-person."
>
>
>
> Of course, if there are any suggestions as to how we can maintain the
> "generously open and friendly tone of the conference", don't hesitate
to
> e-mail me on or off-list. If we have done anything else to offend
anyone
> while trying to organize this conference, drop me a line.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> Meredith
>
> On Mar 19, 2014, at 12:40 AM, "Greer, Jill"  wrote
>
>
>
>
> Dear Meredith, Bryan, and Matea,
>
>
>
> A couple of questions/comments:  Is there no possibility of less
> expensive dorm space?  A shorter walk and/or less expense might make
the
> conference more friendly to a larger number of folks.  Also,  it seems
a
> little formal to be going through linguist list rather than directly
to
> the organizer's emails,  regardless of links provided.  Yes,  I'm
sorry
> to sound like a grumpy old Luddite,  but surely  linguists of all
people
> ought to be cognizant of the meta-communicative message of relying on
> 3rd party providers for 'ease' , so to speak, rather than actual
> person-to-person correspondence?
>
>
>
> Forgive me for the complaints.  This meeting date is a bit early in
the
> summer for my calendar,  and I'm not really sure I'm up to going to a
> Siouan conference without Bob just yet anyway.  No doubt everyone is
> still reeling under that weight, too.  Perhaps the proceedings could
be
> shared with the list?  Rory was the only  one kind enough to actually
> share his paper from last summer's meeting.
>
>
>
> But for future collegiality with fellow Siouanists,  perhaps I'm not
too
> far out of line to request that the generously open and friendly tone
of
> the conference not be replaced with the rather frenzied pace of the
> "standard"  linguistics meeting.
>
>
>
> In the meantime,  thank you for the willingness to host,  and I hope
> that perhaps the beginning of some kind of Festschrift for Bob could
> begin to emerge from the group sorrow.
>
>
>
> Sincerely yours,
>
> Jill Greer
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mar 18, 2014, at 10:41 PM, Meredith Johnson 
>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Dear all,
>
>
>
> We have a couple of updates about the upcoming 34th Siouan and Caddoan
> Languages Conference, to be held Friday, May 23 to Sunday, May 25 at
the
> University of Wisconsin-Madison.
>
>
>
> The conference will be held at Memorial Union, which is on the
> University of Wisconsin campus in downtown Madison. We have reserved a
> block of rooms at the Hampton Inn, which is the closest hotel to the
> conference site (less than a 10 minute walk away). The special
> conference rate is $119/night for a double room from May 22-25. The
rate
> is available until April 22, and you can access this rate from the
> following
>
link:http://hamptoninn.hilton.com/en/hp/groups/personalized/M/MSNBJHX-ALC-2014

> 0522/index.jhtml
>
>
>
> If you're on a tighter budget, we suggest finding a hotel on the west
> side of Madison and taking a bus to the conference. Bus schedules and
> Google transit planner are available here:
> http://www.cityofmadison.com/metro/ Please note that there are
different
> schedules for the work week and weekend.
>
>
>
> Please see attached for a (very) tentative schedule. If you*d like to
> secure one of the spots on this schedule, remember to submit an
abstract
> online athttp://linguistlist.org/confcustom/SCLC34 by this Sunday,
March
> 23! :)
>
>
>
> Lastly, we hope to have registration available shortly! We are still
> waiting for confirmation on our conference funding. If it comes
through
> (fingers crossed!), registration will be free, and there will be a
> subsidized conference dinner. We will let you know as soon as we do!
>
>
>
> We hope to have more info for you soon, but in the meantime, please
feel
> free to e-mail with any questions. Also check our new
> websitehttps://sites.google.com/site/34sclc/accomodations for updates
> and additional information.
>
>
>
> All the best,
>
> Meredith Johnson
>
> Bryan Rosen
>
> Matea Schuck
>
> SCLC 34 Organizers
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> This email may contain identifiable personal information that is
subject
> to protection under state and federal law. This information is
intended
> for the use of the individual named above. If you are not the intended
> recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use
of
> the contents of this information is prohibited and may be punishable
by
> law. If you have received this electronic transmission in error,
please
> notify us immediately by electronic mail (reply).
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________
Edge Hill University
Times Higher University of the Year - shortlisted 2007/8, 2010/11,
2011/12
www.edgehill.ac.uk
________________________________
This message is private and confidential. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender and remove it from your
system. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author
and do not necessarily represent those of Edge Hill or associated
companies. Edge Hill University may monitor email traffic data and also
the content of email for the purposes of security and business
communications during staff absence.

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From jgoodtracks at GMAIL.COM  Thu Mar 20 14:35:15 2014
From: jgoodtracks at GMAIL.COM (Jimm Goodtracks)
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 09:35:15 -0500
Subject: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34
In-Reply-To: <532AACDD0200008E000AE993@hermes.wsc.edu>
Message-ID: <THU.20.MAR.2014.093515.0500.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

For printing, may I suggest Lulu, a printing service on demand.  They print the book when ordered.

Lulu is an advocate for global consumer privacy rights, protection and security.   Copyright ? 2002-2014 Lulu Press, Inc.  All Rights Reserved. 

Worth considering.

From: Catherine Rudin 
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 8:54 AM
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu 
Subject: Re: Antw: Re: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34

I like both Anthony's and Johannes' festschrift suggestions.  Including some of Bob's work is a fine idea; there are many such papers and it would be a fitting tribute. We'd need permission, of course.  Basing the festschrift around the old comparative Siouan project is also a great idea; I would love to see that planned volume finally come to pass, or at least a volume that included some of the papers intended for it.

If a festschrift is to become a reality there are a lot of practical matters to address ... finding a publisher, setting up a system for soliciting, accepting, and editing papers, etc.  It's probably a project best accomplished by a small group of people rather than by whole-list discussion, once it gets past about the stage we're at now.  May I suggest that we pick 2 or 3 people for this job?  I'd be willing to be one of them, though if other folks volunteer I'd also be happy to step aside and let someone else do it.

Catherine

>>> Anthony Grant <Granta at EDGEHILL.AC.UK> 03/20/14 7:41 AM >>>
Could I suggest that the festschrift contain some of Bob's inedita - conference papers he wrote up but didn't publish? He did one or two of these on Quapaw, I believe, and there must be others.

Anthony
________________________________________
From: Siouan Linguistics <SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu> on behalf of Johannes Helmbrecht <Johannes.Helmbrecht at SPRACHLIT.UNI-REGENSBURG.DE>
Sent: 20 March 2014 08:46
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
Subject: Antw: Re: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34

Dear Siouanists,

I strongly agree with Cathrin and Gill that we should honor Bob's work by
continuing our research on Siouan languages and by producing a festschrift. One
idea in this direction could be that we put together the papers we had
produced for our Comparative Siouan Grammar project. I know that Bob loved this
project although we never managed to compile a volume.

All the best
Johannes


--

Professor Dr. Johannes Helmbrecht
Lehrstuhl f?r Allgemeine und Vergleichende Sprachwissenschaft
Fakult?t f?r Sprach-, Literatur- und Kulturwissenschaften
Universit?t Regensburg
Universit?tsstrasse 31
D-93053 Regensburg

Tel. 0941/943-3388
Tel. 0941/943-3387 (Sekretariat)
Fax. 0941/943-2429

Website:
www-avs.uni-regensburg.de

E-mail:
johannes.helmbrecht at sprachlit.uni-regensburg.de




>>> Catherine Rudin <carudin1 at WSC.EDU> schrieb am 20.03.2014 um 01:51:
> Festschrift is a great idea. Let's do it!
> Catherine
>
>>>> Rory Larson 03/19/14 3:18 PM >>>

I agree. Thanks very much
> to Meredith, Bryan and Matea for all their work in organizing this
> conference. I know Bob was really looking forward to attending it. And
> Jill, thankyou for the proposal that we do a Festschrift for Bob. I
> think that*s an absolutely wonderful idea, and I hope you will be active
> in shepherding it along. :)
>
> Best,
> Rory
>
>
> From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu]On Behalf Of
> David Kaufman
> Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2014 2:36 PM
> To: SIOUAN at LISTSERV.UNL.EDU
> Subject: Re: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34
>
>
> I must echo Catherine's sentiments. Although Bob's passing is a loss to
> us all, he would have tried to be at the conference if he still could,
> and, in spirit, he will still be there. The conference would be a good
> opportunity for all of us to talk about memories of Bob and to perhaps
> plan a Festschrift in his honor as Jill proposed.
>
>
> As a former SCLC organizer, I also want to commend the work that the
> three organizers are doing. It is not easy getting everything organized
> and keeping everyone happy, so I can sympathize with the work they have
> ahead of them. Bob welcomed newcomers, including younger people, who
> will be the future of Siouan linguistics. Meredith, Bryan, and Matea
> are young newcomers and have taken on a big responsibility in organizing
> this year's conference. Let's hope we have even more newcomers who are
> as dedicated and committed to Siouan linguistics as they are!
>
>
>
> Things will get worked out. Hope to see all of you in May!
>
>
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
> David Kaufman
>
> Linguistic Anthropology PhD candidate, University of Kansas
>
> Director, Kaw Nation Language Program
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 1:47 PM, Catherine Rudin <CaRudin1 at wsc.edu>
> wrote:
> The link works fine for me.
>
>
>
> Jill, I certainly share your sense of loss, but it seems to me the last
> thing Bob would have wanted is for folks to not attend the conference
> because he won't be there. Let's all go honor his life by continuing
> the work he loved.
>
>
>
> Meredith, Bryan, and Matea THANK YOU for an outstanding job organizing
> so far -- I've been delighted to see timely information and reminders
> not only on the Siouan list but also on LinguistList. The SCLC has
> varied widely over the years -- each organizer does it a little
> differently, and that's fine. I don't see anything closed or unfriendly
> in using an online system for submitting abstracts. I'm not planning on
> giving a talk this year (alas, too overbooked to get around to writing
> anything up) -- but I definitely plan to attend and am looking forward
> to it.
>
>
>
> Catherine
>
>
>>>> Meredith Johnson <majohnson25 at WISC.EDU> 3/19/2014 11:52 AM >>>
> Hi again all,
>
>
>
> Hmm, that's strange. All three of the organizers tried it, and several
> people have successfully uploaded abstracts. I'm guessing Linguist List
> was just updating the website. If you have trouble, I would suggest
> trying it again a little later. If anyone has continual trouble, please
> let me know, and I'll contact Linguist List.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> Meredith
> On Mar 19, 2014, at 7:49 AM, Jimm Goodtracks <jgoodtracks at GMAIL.COM>
> wrote
>
>
>
>
> For your information, I was unable to connect with the link below on
> conference program - http://linguistlist.org/confcustom/SCLC34
>
>
>
> From:Meredith Johnson
>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2014 1:01 AM
>
> To:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
>
> Subject: Re: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi all,
>
>
> A couple of quick responses to Jill's questions, which I am responding
> to on list in case others are interested.
>
>
>
> Dorm space: to the best of our knowledge, there is no available dorm
> space. The conference venue is also on the edge of campus, and all dorms
> would actually be further away than the hotel. Having the conference in
> an urban setting unfortunately has its drawbacks: we could either choose
> a convenient hotel to get a block of rooms in, or a somewhat cheaper one
> that would require a long bus ride for participants.
>
>
>
> As for going through linguist list: We certainly were not trying to be
> formal; there are just three organizers and we all would like access to
> all abstracts submitted. I have accepted abstracts that were e-mailed to
> me, and if anyone else would prefer to do that, I will happily accept
> them and pass them on to the other organizers. All other correspondence
> will be done "person-to-person."
>
>
>
> Of course, if there are any suggestions as to how we can maintain the
> "generously open and friendly tone of the conference", don't hesitate to
> e-mail me on or off-list. If we have done anything else to offend anyone
> while trying to organize this conference, drop me a line.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> Meredith
>
> On Mar 19, 2014, at 12:40 AM, "Greer, Jill" <Greer-J at MSSU.EDU> wrote
>
>
>
>
> Dear Meredith, Bryan, and Matea,
>
>
>
> A couple of questions/comments: Is there no possibility of less
> expensive dorm space? A shorter walk and/or less expense might make the
> conference more friendly to a larger number of folks. Also, it seems a
> little formal to be going through linguist list rather than directly to
> the organizer's emails, regardless of links provided. Yes, I'm sorry
> to sound like a grumpy old Luddite, but surely linguists of all people
> ought to be cognizant of the meta-communicative message of relying on
> 3rd party providers for 'ease' , so to speak, rather than actual
> person-to-person correspondence?
>
>
>
> Forgive me for the complaints. This meeting date is a bit early in the
> summer for my calendar, and I'm not really sure I'm up to going to a
> Siouan conference without Bob just yet anyway. No doubt everyone is
> still reeling under that weight, too. Perhaps the proceedings could be
> shared with the list? Rory was the only one kind enough to actually
> share his paper from last summer's meeting.
>
>
>
> But for future collegiality with fellow Siouanists, perhaps I'm not too
> far out of line to request that the generously open and friendly tone of
> the conference not be replaced with the rather frenzied pace of the
> "standard" linguistics meeting.
>
>
>
> In the meantime, thank you for the willingness to host, and I hope
> that perhaps the beginning of some kind of Festschrift for Bob could
> begin to emerge from the group sorrow.
>
>
>
> Sincerely yours,
>
> Jill Greer
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mar 18, 2014, at 10:41 PM, Meredith Johnson <majohnson25 at WISC.EDU>
>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Dear all,
>
>
>
> We have a couple of updates about the upcoming 34th Siouan and Caddoan
> Languages Conference, to be held Friday, May 23 to Sunday, May 25 at the
> University of Wisconsin-Madison.
>
>
>
> The conference will be held at Memorial Union, which is on the
> University of Wisconsin campus in downtown Madison. We have reserved a
> block of rooms at the Hampton Inn, which is the closest hotel to the
> conference site (less than a 10 minute walk away). The special
> conference rate is $119/night for a double room from May 22-25. The rate
> is available until April 22, and you can access this rate from the
> following
>
link:http://hamptoninn.hilton.com/en/hp/groups/personalized/M/MSNBJHX-ALC-2014

> 0522/index.jhtml
>
>
>
> If you're on a tighter budget, we suggest finding a hotel on the west
> side of Madison and taking a bus to the conference. Bus schedules and
> Google transit planner are available here:
> http://www.cityofmadison.com/metro/ Please note that there are different
> schedules for the work week and weekend.
>
>
>
> Please see attached for a (very) tentative schedule. If you*d like to
> secure one of the spots on this schedule, remember to submit an abstract
> online athttp://linguistlist.org/confcustom/SCLC34 by this Sunday, March
> 23! :)
>
>
>
> Lastly, we hope to have registration available shortly! We are still
> waiting for confirmation on our conference funding. If it comes through
> (fingers crossed!), registration will be free, and there will be a
> subsidized conference dinner. We will let you know as soon as we do!
>
>
>
> We hope to have more info for you soon, but in the meantime, please feel
> free to e-mail with any questions. Also check our new
> websitehttps://sites.google.com/site/34sclc/accomodations for updates
> and additional information.
>
>
>
> All the best,
>
> Meredith Johnson
>
> Bryan Rosen
>
> Matea Schuck
>
> SCLC 34 Organizers
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> This email may contain identifiable personal information that is subject
> to protection under state and federal law. This information is intended
> for the use of the individual named above. If you are not the intended
> recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of
> the contents of this information is prohibited and may be punishable by
> law. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please
> notify us immediately by electronic mail (reply).
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________
Edge Hill University
Times Higher University of the Year - shortlisted 2007/8, 2010/11, 2011/12
www.edgehill.ac.uk<http://www.edgehill.ac.uk>
________________________________
This message is private and confidential. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender and remove it from your system. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Edge Hill or associated companies. Edge Hill University may monitor email traffic data and also the content of email for the purposes of security and business communications during staff absence.
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From linguista at GMAIL.COM  Sun Mar 23 23:02:39 2014
From: linguista at GMAIL.COM (Bryan James Gordon)
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2014 16:02:39 -0700
Subject: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34
In-Reply-To: <F9E537F292BB4050B2AEDDFD4983775D@AsusLaptop>
Message-ID: <SUN.23.MAR.2014.160239.0700.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

I am shooting to get my comps done by just before the conference; if I'm
successful I'll be happy to volunteer to help with organizing a
festschrift. Looking forward to seeing y'all, and very sorry I won't be
getting to see Bob.

Bryan


2014-03-20 7:35 GMT-07:00 Jimm Goodtracks <jgoodtracks at gmail.com>:

>   For printing, may I suggest Lulu, a printing service on demand.  They
> print the book when ordered.
>
> Lulu is an advocate for global consumer privacy rights, protection and
> security.   Copyright <http://www.lulu.com/help/copyright_notice> ?
> 2002-2014 Lulu Press, Inc.  All Rights Reserved.
>
> Worth considering.
>
>  *From:* Catherine Rudin <carudin1 at WSC.EDU>
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 20, 2014 8:54 AM
> *To:* SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
> *Subject:* Re: Antw: Re: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34
>
> I like both Anthony's and Johannes' festschrift suggestions.  Including
> some of Bob's work is a fine idea; there are many such papers and it would
> be a fitting tribute. We'd need permission, of course.  Basing the
> festschrift around the old comparative Siouan project is also a great idea;
> I would love to see that planned volume finally come to pass, or at least a
> volume that included some of the papers intended for it.
>
> If a festschrift is to become a reality there are a lot of practical
> matters to address ... finding a publisher, setting up a system for
> soliciting, accepting, and editing papers, etc.  It's probably a project
> best accomplished by a small group of people rather than by whole-list
> discussion, once it gets past about the stage we're at now.  May I suggest
> that we pick 2 or 3 people for this job?  I'd be willing to be one of them,
> though if other folks volunteer I'd also be happy to step aside and let
> someone else do it.
>
> Catherine
>
> >>> Anthony Grant <Granta at EDGEHILL.AC.UK> 03/20/14 7:41 AM >>>
> Could I suggest that the festschrift contain some of Bob's inedita -
> conference papers he wrote up but didn't publish? He did one or two of
> these on Quapaw, I believe, and there must be others.
>
> Anthony
> ________________________________________
> From: Siouan Linguistics <SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu> on behalf of Johannes
> Helmbrecht <Johannes.Helmbrecht at SPRACHLIT.UNI-REGENSBURG.DE>
> Sent: 20 March 2014 08:46
> To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
> Subject: Antw: Re: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34
>
> Dear Siouanists,
>
> I strongly agree with Cathrin and Gill that we should honor Bob's work by
> continuing our research on Siouan languages and by producing a
> festschrift. One
> idea in this direction could be that we put together the papers we had
> produced for our Comparative Siouan Grammar project. I know that Bob loved
> this
> project although we never managed to compile a volume.
>
> All the best
> Johannes
>
>
> --
>
> Professor Dr. Johannes Helmbrecht
> Lehrstuhl f?r Allgemeine und Vergleichende Sprachwissenschaft
> Fakult?t f?r Sprach-, Literatur- und Kulturwissenschaften
> Universit?t Regensburg
> Universit?tsstrasse 31
> D-93053 Regensburg
>
> Tel. 0941/943-3388
> Tel. 0941/943-3387 (Sekretariat)
> Fax. 0941/943-2429
>
> Website:
> www-avs.uni-regensburg.de
>
> E-mail:
> johannes.helmbrecht at sprachlit.uni-regensburg.de
>
>
>
>
> >>> Catherine Rudin <carudin1 at WSC.EDU> schrieb am 20.03.2014 um 01:51:
> > Festschrift is a great idea. Let's do it!
> > Catherine
> >
> >>>> Rory Larson 03/19/14 3:18 PM >>>
>
> I agree. Thanks very much
> > to Meredith, Bryan and Matea for all their work in organizing this
> > conference. I know Bob was really looking forward to attending it. And
> > Jill, thankyou for the proposal that we do a Festschrift for Bob. I
> > think that*s an absolutely wonderful idea, and I hope you will be active
> > in shepherding it along. :)
> >
> > Best,
> > Rory
> >
> >
> > From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu]On Behalf Of
> > David Kaufman
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2014 2:36 PM
> > To: SIOUAN at LISTSERV.UNL.EDU
> > Subject: Re: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34
> >
> >
> > I must echo Catherine's sentiments. Although Bob's passing is a loss to
> > us all, he would have tried to be at the conference if he still could,
> > and, in spirit, he will still be there. The conference would be a good
> > opportunity for all of us to talk about memories of Bob and to perhaps
> > plan a Festschrift in his honor as Jill proposed.
> >
> >
> > As a former SCLC organizer, I also want to commend the work that the
> > three organizers are doing. It is not easy getting everything organized
> > and keeping everyone happy, so I can sympathize with the work they have
> > ahead of them. Bob welcomed newcomers, including younger people, who
> > will be the future of Siouan linguistics. Meredith, Bryan, and Matea
> > are young newcomers and have taken on a big responsibility in organizing
> > this year's conference. Let's hope we have even more newcomers who are
> > as dedicated and committed to Siouan linguistics as they are!
> >
> >
> >
> > Things will get worked out. Hope to see all of you in May!
> >
> >
> >
> > Dave
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > David Kaufman
> >
> > Linguistic Anthropology PhD candidate, University of Kansas
> >
> > Director, Kaw Nation Language Program
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 1:47 PM, Catherine Rudin <CaRudin1 at wsc.edu>
> > wrote:
> > The link works fine for me.
> >
> >
> >
> > Jill, I certainly share your sense of loss, but it seems to me the last
> > thing Bob would have wanted is for folks to not attend the conference
> > because he won't be there. Let's all go honor his life by continuing
> > the work he loved.
> >
> >
> >
> > Meredith, Bryan, and Matea THANK YOU for an outstanding job organizing
> > so far -- I've been delighted to see timely information and reminders
> > not only on the Siouan list but also on LinguistList. The SCLC has
> > varied widely over the years -- each organizer does it a little
> > differently, and that's fine. I don't see anything closed or unfriendly
> > in using an online system for submitting abstracts. I'm not planning on
> > giving a talk this year (alas, too overbooked to get around to writing
> > anything up) -- but I definitely plan to attend and am looking forward
> > to it.
> >
> >
> >
> > Catherine
> >
> >
> >>>> Meredith Johnson <majohnson25 at WISC.EDU> 3/19/2014 11:52 AM >>>
> > Hi again all,
> >
> >
> >
> > Hmm, that's strange. All three of the organizers tried it, and several
> > people have successfully uploaded abstracts. I'm guessing Linguist List
> > was just updating the website. If you have trouble, I would suggest
> > trying it again a little later. If anyone has continual trouble, please
> > let me know, and I'll contact Linguist List.
> >
> >
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Meredith
> > On Mar 19, 2014, at 7:49 AM, Jimm Goodtracks <jgoodtracks at GMAIL.COM>
> > wrote
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > For your information, I was unable to connect with the link below on
> > conference program - http://linguistlist.org/confcustom/SCLC34
> >
> >
> >
> > From:Meredith Johnson
> >
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2014 1:01 AM
> >
> > To:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
> >
> > Subject: Re: Accommodations and tentative schedule for SCLC 34
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> >
> > A couple of quick responses to Jill's questions, which I am responding
> > to on list in case others are interested.
> >
> >
> >
> > Dorm space: to the best of our knowledge, there is no available dorm
> > space. The conference venue is also on the edge of campus, and all dorms
> > would actually be further away than the hotel. Having the conference in
> > an urban setting unfortunately has its drawbacks: we could either choose
> > a convenient hotel to get a block of rooms in, or a somewhat cheaper one
> > that would require a long bus ride for participants.
> >
> >
> >
> > As for going through linguist list: We certainly were not trying to be
> > formal; there are just three organizers and we all would like access to
> > all abstracts submitted. I have accepted abstracts that were e-mailed to
> > me, and if anyone else would prefer to do that, I will happily accept
> > them and pass them on to the other organizers. All other correspondence
> > will be done "person-to-person."
> >
> >
> >
> > Of course, if there are any suggestions as to how we can maintain the
> > "generously open and friendly tone of the conference", don't hesitate to
> > e-mail me on or off-list. If we have done anything else to offend anyone
> > while trying to organize this conference, drop me a line.
> >
> >
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Meredith
> >
> > On Mar 19, 2014, at 12:40 AM, "Greer, Jill" <Greer-J at MSSU.EDU> wrote
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear Meredith, Bryan, and Matea,
> >
> >
> >
> > A couple of questions/comments: Is there no possibility of less
> > expensive dorm space? A shorter walk and/or less expense might make the
> > conference more friendly to a larger number of folks. Also, it seems a
> > little formal to be going through linguist list rather than directly to
> > the organizer's emails, regardless of links provided. Yes, I'm sorry
> > to sound like a grumpy old Luddite, but surely linguists of all people
> > ought to be cognizant of the meta-communicative message of relying on
> > 3rd party providers for 'ease' , so to speak, rather than actual
> > person-to-person correspondence?
> >
> >
> >
> > Forgive me for the complaints. This meeting date is a bit early in the
> > summer for my calendar, and I'm not really sure I'm up to going to a
> > Siouan conference without Bob just yet anyway. No doubt everyone is
> > still reeling under that weight, too. Perhaps the proceedings could be
> > shared with the list? Rory was the only one kind enough to actually
> > share his paper from last summer's meeting.
> >
> >
> >
> > But for future collegiality with fellow Siouanists, perhaps I'm not too
> > far out of line to request that the generously open and friendly tone of
> > the conference not be replaced with the rather frenzied pace of the
> > "standard" linguistics meeting.
> >
> >
> >
> > In the meantime, thank you for the willingness to host, and I hope
> > that perhaps the beginning of some kind of Festschrift for Bob could
> > begin to emerge from the group sorrow.
> >
> >
> >
> > Sincerely yours,
> >
> > Jill Greer
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mar 18, 2014, at 10:41 PM, Meredith Johnson <majohnson25 at WISC.EDU>
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear all,
> >
> >
> >
> > We have a couple of updates about the upcoming 34th Siouan and Caddoan
> > Languages Conference, to be held Friday, May 23 to Sunday, May 25 at the
> > University of Wisconsin-Madison.
> >
> >
> >
> > The conference will be held at Memorial Union, which is on the
> > University of Wisconsin campus in downtown Madison. We have reserved a
> > block of rooms at the Hampton Inn, which is the closest hotel to the
> > conference site (less than a 10 minute walk away). The special
> > conference rate is $119/night for a double room from May 22-25. The rate
> > is available until April 22, and you can access this rate from the
> > following
> >
> link:
> http://hamptoninn.hilton.com/en/hp/groups/personalized/M/MSNBJHX-ALC-2014
>
> > 0522/index.jhtml
> >
> >
> >
> > If you're on a tighter budget, we suggest finding a hotel on the west
> > side of Madison and taking a bus to the conference. Bus schedules and
> > Google transit planner are available here:
> > http://www.cityofmadison.com/metro/ Please note that there are different
> > schedules for the work week and weekend.
> >
> >
> >
> > Please see attached for a (very) tentative schedule. If you*d like to
> > secure one of the spots on this schedule, remember to submit an abstract
> > online athttp://linguistlist.org/confcustom/SCLC34 by this Sunday, March
> > 23! :)
> >
> >
> >
> > Lastly, we hope to have registration available shortly! We are still
> > waiting for confirmation on our conference funding. If it comes through
> > (fingers crossed!), registration will be free, and there will be a
> > subsidized conference dinner. We will let you know as soon as we do!
> >
> >
> >
> > We hope to have more info for you soon, but in the meantime, please feel
> > free to e-mail with any questions. Also check our new
> > websitehttps://sites.google.com/site/34sclc/accomodations for updates
> > and additional information.
> >
> >
> >
> > All the best,
> >
> > Meredith Johnson
> >
> > Bryan Rosen
> >
> > Matea Schuck
> >
> > SCLC 34 Organizers
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > This email may contain identifiable personal information that is subject
> > to protection under state and federal law. This information is intended
> > for the use of the individual named above. If you are not the intended
> > recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of
> > the contents of this information is prohibited and may be punishable by
> > law. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please
> > notify us immediately by electronic mail (reply).
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ________________________________
> Edge Hill University
> Times Higher University of the Year - shortlisted 2007/8, 2010/11, 2011/12
> www.edgehill.ac.uk<http://www.edgehill.ac.uk>
> ________________________________
> This message is private and confidential. If you have received this
> message in error, please notify the sender and remove it from your system.
> Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not
> necessarily represent those of Edge Hill or associated companies. Edge Hill
> University may monitor email traffic data and also the content of email for
> the purposes of security and business communications during staff absence.
>



-- 
***********************************************************
Bryan James Gordon, MA
Joint PhD Program in Linguistics and Anthropology
University of Arizona
***********************************************************
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From majohnson25 at WISC.EDU  Mon Mar 24 17:00:15 2014
From: majohnson25 at WISC.EDU (Meredith Johnson)
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2014 12:00:15 -0500
Subject: SCLC 34 abstract submission extended and registration open!
Message-ID: <MON.24.MAR.2014.120015.0500.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

Dear all,

This is just to inform you of a few updates on plans for this year's Siouan and Caddoan Languages Conference.  A few important points points:

*Deadline for abstract submission has been extended to Sunday, March 30 at 11:59 CST .  You may submit your abstract at http://linguistlist.org/confcustom/SCLC34.  If you are experiencing problems with the online submission website, you may email the abstract directly to us at majohnson25 at wisc.edu.

*Registration information is now up on the conference website.  You may also access the registration site directly by clicking here.  Registration is free, but please remember to register so that we know how many attendees to plan for.  We want there to be enough chairs, coffee and snacks for all!

As always, if you have any questions, please feel free to ask any of the organizers.

All the best,
Meredith
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From sky at OMTRIBE.ORG  Fri Mar 28 18:06:36 2014
From: sky at OMTRIBE.ORG (Campbell, Sky)
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 13:06:36 -0500
Subject: Number 'nine' in Chiwere.
In-Reply-To: <72663936A7BBD841B5FB12A49C95E436A37EF95DE1@Server6-EX.omtribe.net>
Message-ID: <FRI.28.MAR.2014.130636.0500.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

Looking for something else, I came across this information on the number nine.  It was mentioned before that the Siouan languages may have borrowed the term ?sanke? from the Algonquian languages (or vice versa).  I found this among Maximilian?s Osage terms:


Nine, gr??bena ? tscheh ? u?ningk??
(the whole run together); i. e.,
ten less one; they also say,
schangk?


That got me to thinking about two things.  First, this looks to me like the ?gr??bena ? tscheh ? u?ningk??? was the original term for nine and that ?shangk?? is the interloper.  It makes sense to me that the first version would be the original since it is an actual translation for nine in that language.

Maximilian?s entry for ?one? is ?u?nchtsch?? and you can see a portion of that in the ?tscheh? in the above term.

Ok, that was more of a ?hey look at this, you may find it interesting? tidbit of information.  Here is the second thought that struck me.  It is the ?u?ningk??? portion of the term which looks related to the Otoe-Missouria ?ninge? which is along the lines of no or none and has even been translated as ?have none.?  That definitely fits with Maximilian?s mention of ?less one.?  Then that got me to thinking again about the Otoe-Missouria ?ninge? which I?ve seen (and heard) as also being pronounced ?ninye.?  And then that got me to thinking about the term for nine that was given to me by a tribal member which was ?nanye? and now I am wondering if that is a possible variant of ?ninye/ninge? and could be a potential long-lost relic of the original Otoe-Missouria term for nine which could very well have been something along the lines of ?ten less one? as well before ?sanke? moved in.

Of course I am basing this on me turning my head to the side while looking at it and banking a bit on the similarities between Otoe-Missouria and Osage but this still has drawn my attention and I wanted to get some feedback from you guys to see what you think.

Thoughts?

Sky Campbell, B. A.
Language Director
Otoe-Missouria Tribe
580-723-4466 ext. 111
sky at omtribe.org

From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] On Behalf Of Campbell, Sky
Sent: Friday, December 06, 2013 9:47 AM
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
Subject: Re: Number 'nine' in Chiwere.

I wondered if there was a glottal stop in there somewhere.  I see a ?k? in Hamilton and Irvin?s books when there would often be a glottal stop.  For example, their list of catechisms which they titled ?We-wv-h?-kju? (Wiw?xes? or Wiw?xe?s? (?(general) questions?)).

What I also find interesting is that Hamilton and Irvin?s publication five years later (1848) (An Ioway Grammar) doesn?t have the ?k? with the word for ?nine.?

Sky Campbell, B. A.
Language Director
Otoe-Missouria Tribe
580-723-4466 ext. 111
sky at omtribe.org<mailto:sky at omtribe.org>

From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] On Behalf Of Rankin, Robert L.
Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2013 4:40 PM
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu<mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu>
Subject: Re: Number 'nine' in Chiwere.

Sky,

Yes, the initial k- seems to be part of the original term, probably from *ki-.  Down below your comments I have copied the Comparative Dictionary entry for 'nine'.  As you'll see, several of the languages show traces of the ki- or k-.  My Chiwere recordings showed a glottal stop as residue of the k-.  It's interesting that you found citations of the word with the full k-.

Thanks.

Bob

> Ek jdfk (ikshanke) ? Wdtwhtl Wdwdklha Tva Eva Wdhonetl (1834) by Merrill

> Merrill?s form follows the ordinal number pattern (IE ?ninth? rather than ?nine?) but the ?k? is still present which is what has me curious.  To date, all other sources I?ve come across only have ?sanke/shanke? (or something along those lines) with no ?k?.  It has been mentioned here that ?sanke? was borrowed from Algonquian.  Does the inclusion of ?k? also fit with other Algonquian ?nines??
Thoughts?


GLOSS[ nine



GRAMCAT[ N

SEMCAT[



OTHREC[ {*k???kha}  {GHM58}



PMV[ *k???hka ? (?)



CH[ ????khe ?nine? rlr

CH[ ???khe ?nine? rtc



PDH[ *???hka

OP[ ???kka ? nine ? rlr

OP[ ???kka ? nine ? rtc

KS[ ???kka ? nine ? rlr

OS[ ???hka ? nine, archaic, card game ? rlr

QU[ ??kka ? nine ? rlr



PSE[ *ki????hka ? (?)



BI[ ??kan? ?tckan??? ?nine? DS:265 (?)

OF[ ?k??t??ka ?k??shtAshga? ?nine? {JRS09:485}

OF[ ?k??cta?cga? ?nine? DS:325b



TU[ ?kis???hkai ?t?a (N), sa?, sa??, ksa?k, ksa?hkai, kasankai, ksa?kai? ?nine? HH

TU[ ? ks??hk? ? ?nine? Hw.

TU[  ? s?k? ? ?nine? Sapir

TU[  ? kse?k ? ?nine? Fracht.

TU[ ? kis??g, kis?n ? two ? Fracht.



COM[ The recorded CH forms imply different underlying sibilants. PSI *?

often does become [s], but only primary PSI *s > ?}, {i.e.}, CH {?}

and {?} never vary or alternate regularly. But note also the irregular TU

{s} where {?} is expected. BI {tckan??} {DS:265a} is probably

borrowed from Choctaw-Chickasaw {?akk??li} {nine}; {n} is the usual

BI replacement for Western Muskogean {l} This W. Muskogean term lacks

Creek, Hitchiti cognates however, and may be from the same ultimate source

as Siouan {*ki????hka} OF seems to show the intrusive {t} that appears

following sibilants in {black}, {q.v.} OF {a?} often represents

denasalized {*?}. {Cf.} also Powhatan {*ke?ka?ta?s} {nine}

{FS 1975:309} as well as other, well known Algonquian look-alikes such as

Ojibwa {?a?nk-} Fox {?a?ka}, Shawnee {caakathzwi}, Potawatomi

{?ak} {nine} {FS 1975:311, Rhodes, personal communication}. The

distribution of this set (only the more southerly languages represented), the

sibilant, and other phonological irregularities in CH, OF and TU, coupled

with the presence of similar terms in both Algonquian and Muskogean

languages lead us to conclude that this is a loanword. Direction(s) of

borrowing and/or source of the term is unknown.



  ??
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From aigotm at YAHOO.COM  Fri Mar 28 21:41:35 2014
From: aigotm at YAHOO.COM (Emilia Aigotti)
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 14:41:35 -0700
Subject: Number 'nine' in Chiwere.
In-Reply-To: <72663936A7BBD841B5FB12A49C95E436C33F81E1CF@Server6-EX.omtribe.net>
Message-ID: <FRI.28.MAR.2014.144135.0700.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

Did you see this entry in the online Chiwere dictionary? It gives some similarities to other Siouan languages. Not sure if this is helpful. Searching my other documents...

??nke; ^s?nke (GM); ???ke (DOR) n. nine. [W. shaatg?wi; OmP.
shanka; Os. shanka; gdh?bdhantsewindhinge; L/D. shak?win; H. sh?hpuw;
M. k?:pa; T. sa:kom; Of. f?ckumi].?


Emilia Garcia

________________________________
 From: "Campbell, Sky" <sky at OMTRIBE.ORG>
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu 
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2014 1:06 PM
Subject: Re: Number 'nine' in Chiwere.
 


Looking for something else, I came across this information on the number nine.? It was mentioned before that the Siouan languages may have borrowed the term ?sanke? from the Algonquian languages (or vice versa).? I found this among Maximilian?s Osage terms:
?
?
Nine, gr??bena ? tscheh ? u?ningk??
(the whole run together); i. e.,
ten less one; they also say,
schangk?
?
?
That got me to thinking about two things.? First, this looks to me like the ?gr??bena ? tscheh ? u?ningk??? was the original term for nine and that ?shangk?? is the interloper.? It makes sense to me that the first version would be the original since it is an actual translation for nine in that language.
?
Maximilian?s entry for ?one? is ?u?nchtsch?? and you can see a portion of that in the ?tscheh? in the above term.
?
Ok, that was more of a ?hey look at this, you may find it interesting? tidbit of information.? Here is the second thought that struck me.? It is the ?u?ningk??? portion of the term which looks related to the Otoe-Missouria ?ninge? which is along the lines of no or none and has even been translated as ?have none.?? That definitely fits with Maximilian?s mention of ?less one.?? Then that got me to thinking again about the Otoe-Missouria ?ninge? which I?ve seen (and heard) as also being pronounced ?ninye.?? And then that got me to thinking about the term for nine that was given to me by a tribal member which was ?nanye? and now I am wondering if that is a possible variant of ?ninye/ninge? and could be a potential long-lost relic of the original Otoe-Missouria term for nine which could very well have been something along the lines of ?ten less one? as well before ?sanke? moved in.
?
Of course I am basing this on me turning my head to the side while looking at it and banking a bit on the similarities between Otoe-Missouria and Osage but this still has drawn my attention and I wanted to get some feedback from you guys to see what you think.
?
Thoughts?
?
Sky Campbell, B. A.
Language Director
Otoe-Missouria Tribe
580-723-4466 ext. 111
sky at omtribe.org
?
From:Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] On Behalf Of Campbell, Sky
Sent: Friday, December 06, 2013 9:47 AM
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
Subject: Re: Number 'nine' in Chiwere.
?
I wondered if there was a glottal stop in there somewhere.? I see a ?k? in Hamilton and Irvin?s books when there would often be a glottal stop.? For example, their list of catechisms which they titled ?We-wv-h?-kju? (Wiw?xes? or Wiw?xe?s? (?(general) questions?)).
?
What I also find interesting is that Hamilton and Irvin?s publication five years later (1848) (An Ioway Grammar) doesn?t have the ?k? with the word for ?nine.?
?
Sky Campbell, B. A.
Language Director
Otoe-Missouria Tribe
580-723-4466 ext. 111
sky at omtribe.org
?
From:Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] On Behalf Of Rankin, Robert L.
Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2013 4:40 PM
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
Subject: Re: Number 'nine' in Chiwere.
?
Sky,

Yes, the initial k- seems to be part of the original term, probably from *ki-.? Down below your comments I have copied the Comparative Dictionary entry for 'nine'.? As you'll see, several of the languages show traces of the ki- or k-.? My Chiwere recordings showed a glottal stop as residue of the k-.? It's interesting that you found citations of the word with the full k-.

Thanks.

Bob

> Ek jdfk (ikshanke) ? Wdtwhtl Wdwdklha Tva Eva Wdhonetl (1834) by Merrill
?
> Merrill?s form follows the ordinal number pattern (IE ?ninth? rather than ?nine?) but the ?k? is still present which is what has me curious.? To date, all other sources I?ve come across only have ?sanke/shanke? (or something along those lines) with no ?k?.? It has been mentioned here that ?sanke? was borrowed from Algonquian.? Does the inclusion of ?k? also fit with other Algonquian ?nines??? 
Thoughts?
?
GLOSS[ nine
?
GRAMCAT[ N
SEMCAT[ 
?
OTHREC[ {*k???kha}? {GHM58}
?
PMV[ *k???hka ? (?)
?
CH[ ????khe ?nine? rlr
CH[ ???khe ?nine? rtc
?
PDH[ *???hka
OP[ ???kka ? nine ? rlr
OP[ ???kka ? nine ? rtc
KS[ ???kka ? nine ? rlr
OS[ ???hka ? nine, archaic, card game ? rlr
QU[ ??kka ? nine ? rlr
?
PSE[ *ki????hka ? (?)
?
BI[ ??kan? ?tckan??? ?nine? DS:265 (?)
OF[ ?k??t??ka ?k??shtAshga? ?nine? {JRS09:485}
OF[ ?k??ct?cga? ?nine? DS:325b
?
TU[ ?kis???hkai ?t?a (N), s?, s??, ksa?k, ks?hkai, kasankai, ks?kai? ?nine? HH
TU[ ? ks??hk? ? ?nine? Hw.
TU[? ? s?k? ? ?nine? Sapir
TU[? ? kse?k ? ?nine? Fracht.
TU[ ? kis??g, kis?n ? two ? Fracht.
?
COM[ The recorded CH forms imply different underlying sibilants. PSI *? 
often does become [s], but only primary PSI *s > ?}, {i.e.}, CH {?} 
and {?} never vary or alternate regularly. But note also the irregular TU 
{s} where {?} is expected. BI {tckan??} {DS:265a} is probably 
borrowed from Choctaw-Chickasaw {?akk??li} {nine}; {n} is the usual 
BI replacement for Western Muskogean {l} This W. Muskogean term lacks 
Creek, Hitchiti cognates however, and may be from the same ultimate source 
as Siouan {*ki????hka} OF seems to show the intrusive {t} that appears 
following sibilants in {black}, {q.v.} OF {?} often represents 
denasalized {*?}. {Cf.} also Powhatan {*ke?ka?ta?s} {nine} 
{FS 1975:309} as well as other, well known Algonquian look-alikes such as 
Ojibwa {?a?nk-} Fox {?a?ka}, Shawnee {caakathzwi}, Potawatomi 
{?ak} {nine} {FS 1975:311, Rhodes, personal communication}. The 
distribution of this set (only the more southerly languages represented), the 
sibilant, and other phonological irregularities in CH, OF and TU, coupled 
with the presence of similar terms in both Algonquian and Muskogean 
languages lead us to conclude that this is a loanword. Direction(s) of 
borrowing and/or source of the term is unknown.
?

??????
??????
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From rlarson1 at UNL.EDU  Sat Mar 29 00:37:29 2014
From: rlarson1 at UNL.EDU (Rory Larson)
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2014 00:37:29 +0000
Subject: Number 'nine' in Chiwere.
In-Reply-To: <72663936A7BBD841B5FB12A49C95E436C33F81E1CF@Server6-EX.omtribe.net>
Message-ID: <SAT.29.MAR.2014.003729.0000.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

Sky,

Here?s where I really wish we still had Bob around, as the study of loan words from neighbors in the east was one of his specialties.  I?ll toss out what I can here, and maybe someone else will have other ideas.


?  Nine, gr??bena ? tscheh ? u?ningk??

?  (the whole run together); i. e.,

?  ten less one; they also say,

?  schangk?

I looked up ?nine? in Carolyn Quitero?s Osage Dictionary, and the first (long) term is the only one she seems to have listed:

                l?br? hce w??ke

Dhegiha *gr- generally goes to l- in Osage and Kaw, but apparently in Maximilian?s time the leading /g/ was still present.  His ??? and his ?eh? apparently both represent what we write as /e/, while the ?e? between the ?b? and the ?n? presumably represents schwa.  The ?n? in the first word would be /r/ followed by a nasal vowel.  In Omaha, the corresponding word for ?ten? at that time was gr?br?, now shortened to gr?b?.

I?m not entirely sure what to make of Maximilian?s ?ch? here.  That should be a voiceless velar or palatal fricative of the sort we generally write with /x/, except after s when I think the whole sequence ?sch? is pronounced /?/.  (Our German colleagues can correct me here.)  So then ?tsch? should be pronounced /?/.  But in Carolyn?s Osage orthography, ?c? is pronounced /ts/.  The pre-aspirated sequence hc- seems to equate to the tense stop tt- in Omaha, which would make hce the potential particle that in Omaha is tte and in Dakotan ktA.  Carolyn uses ch- as a post-aspirate where Omaha has the post-aspirated stop t ?  (t + raised h).  So Maximilian?s tscheh might be interpreted here as (ts = c) + (ch = x) + (eh = e), which would get us cxe, or che, the ?standing? positional that in Omaha is t ? e.  In the former case, the first two words would translate as ?would-be ten?, and in the latter case as ?ten standing?.  You may have a good enough sense of Maximilian?s orthography to choose between these.

Maximilian?s u? would be our /wi/.  Presumably his ningk? is Osage ??k?, equivalent to Omaha ??g?, ?none? or ?missing?.  So the whole sequence would essentially be ?ten with one missing?, as he says.  Carolyn?s version w??ke doesn?t show the n/?, but I don?t think that should be much of a problem.  In Omaha, that sound is often dropped before the similarly pronounced positional ??k ? ?, so I assume that that is all that happened here.



?  That got me to thinking about two things.  First, this looks to me like the ?gr??bena ? tscheh ? u?ningk??? was the original term for nine and that ?shangk?? is the interloper.  It makes sense to me that the first version would be the original since it is an actual translation for nine in that language.

Perhaps, but it could also be that the ?native? term was reinvented in Osage.  The expression is unpleasantly long to be used commonly as we do, and it suggests a finger-counting system.  It?s likely that post-Mississippian peoples just didn?t need to count that high very often until white traders arrived, and some groups of speakers may have forgotten the older (borrowed) term and reinvented a sensible native replacement that initially had to be cumbersomely explicit.



?  Maximilian?s entry for ?one? is ?u?nchtsch?? and you can see a portion of that in the ?tscheh? in the above term.

Carolyn Quintero has w?, w?xce for ?one?.  The root for ?one? in Osage and Omaha is w?, which can also be used loosely as the article ?a?, ?an?.  To make it explicitly the numeral ?one?, it seems that an intensifying ending is added onto it.  In Osage, that ending is xce (presumably not the same as the potential particle hce).  In Omaha, the more explicit term is w??x?i, presumably a diminutized form of w??xti, in which the suffix -xti is a common intensifier.  What the accented /-?-/ in the middle is doing, I?ve never been able to figure out.  Otherwise, the Osage form here is the same except that its suffix is -xce instead of -xci as I would expect.



?  Ok, that was more of a ?hey look at this, you may find it interesting? tidbit of information.  Here is the second thought that struck me.  It is the ?u?ningk??? portion of the term which looks related to the Otoe-Missouria ?ninge? which is along the lines of no or none and has even been translated as ?have none.?  That definitely fits with Maximilian?s mention of ?less one.?  Then that got me to thinking again about the Otoe-Missouria ?ninge? which I?ve seen (and heard) as also being pronounced ?ninye.?  And then that got me to thinking about the term for nine that was given to me by a tribal member which was ?nanye? and now I am wondering if that is a possible variant of ?ninye/ninge? and could be a potential long-lost relic of the original Otoe-Missouria term for nine which could very well have been something along the lines of ?ten less one? as well before ?sanke? moved in.

?

?  Of course I am basing this on me turning my head to the side while looking at it and banking a bit on the similarities between Otoe-Missouria and Osage but this still has drawn my attention and I wanted to get some feedback from you guys to see what you think.

?

?  Thoughts?

I think that?s a very promising idea.  Rather than figuring out a sound shift rule to get us from /ni?/ to /na?/ though, perhaps we could suppose that the /na?/ came about from the effect of a longer sequence that once existed before the ninye, presumably involving ?one?.  Maybe the original was something like iy??ki-ni?ge, which impatiently tonguetwisted speakers radically collapsed to n??ge, and from there to your nanye.

Do you happen to remember which syllable of nanye was accented?

Best,
Rory

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From sky at LEGENDREADERS.COM  Sun Mar 30 01:56:43 2014
From: sky at LEGENDREADERS.COM (Sky Campbell)
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2014 20:56:43 -0500
Subject: Number 'nine' in Chiwere.
In-Reply-To: <1396042895.34068.YahooMailNeo@web185405.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <SAT.29.MAR.2014.205643.0500.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

Yes, I've seen that.  With all the talk of the possible origin of "sanke" and the tribal member giving me the term "nanye", it has my mind whirring :).

 

Sky

 

From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] On Behalf Of Emilia Aigotti
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2014 4:42 PM
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
Subject: Re: Number 'nine' in Chiwere.

 

Did you see this entry in the online Chiwere dictionary? It gives some similarities to other Siouan languages. Not sure if this is helpful. Searching my other documents...

 

??nke; ^s?nke (GM); ???ke (DOR) n. nine. [W. shaatg?wi; OmP. shanka; Os. shanka; gdh?bdhantsewindhinge; L/D. shak?win; H. sh?hpuw; M. k?:pa; T. sa:kom; Of. f?ckumi]. 

 

 

Emilia Garcia

  _____  

From: "Campbell, Sky" <sky at OMTRIBE.ORG>
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu 
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2014 1:06 PM
Subject: Re: Number 'nine' in Chiwere.

 

Looking for something else, I came across this information on the number nine.  It was mentioned before that the Siouan languages may have borrowed the term ?sanke? from the Algonquian languages (or vice versa).  I found this among Maximilian?s Osage terms:

 

 

Nine, gr??bena ? tscheh ? u?ningk??

(the whole run together); i. e.,

ten less one; they also say,

schangk?

 

 

That got me to thinking about two things.  First, this looks to me like the ?gr??bena ? tscheh ? u?ningk??? was the original term for nine and that ?shangk?? is the interloper.  It makes sense to me that the first version would be the original since it is an actual translation for nine in that language.

 

Maximilian?s entry for ?one? is ?u?nchtsch?? and you can see a portion of that in the ?tscheh? in the above term.

 

Ok, that was more of a ?hey look at this, you may find it interesting? tidbit of information.  Here is the second thought that struck me.  It is the ?u?ningk??? portion of the term which looks related to the Otoe-Missouria ?ninge? which is along the lines of no or none and has even been translated as ?have none.?  That definitely fits with Maximilian?s mention of ?less one.?  Then that got me to thinking again about the Otoe-Missouria ?ninge? which I?ve seen (and heard) as also being pronounced ?ninye.?  And then that got me to thinking about the term for nine that was given to me by a tribal member which was ?nanye? and now I am wondering if that is a possible variant of ?ninye/ninge? and could be a potential long-lost relic of the original Otoe-Missouria term for nine which could very well have been something along the lines of ?ten less one? as well before ?sanke? moved in.

 

Of course I am basing this on me turning my head to the side while looking at it and banking a bit on the similarities between Otoe-Missouria and Osage but this still has drawn my attention and I wanted to get some feedback from you guys to see what you think.

 

Thoughts?

 

Sky Campbell, B. A.

Language Director

Otoe-Missouria Tribe

580-723-4466 ext. 111

sky at omtribe.org

 

From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] On Behalf Of Campbell, Sky
Sent: Friday, December 06, 2013 9:47 AM
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
Subject: Re: Number 'nine' in Chiwere.

 

I wondered if there was a glottal stop in there somewhere.  I see a ?k? in Hamilton and Irvin?s books when there would often be a glottal stop.  For example, their list of catechisms which they titled ?We-wv-h?-kju? (Wiw?xes? or Wiw?xe?s? (?(general) questions?)).

 

What I also find interesting is that Hamilton and Irvin?s publication five years later (1848) (An Ioway Grammar) doesn?t have the ?k? with the word for ?nine.?

 

Sky Campbell, B. A.

Language Director

Otoe-Missouria Tribe

580-723-4466 ext. 111

sky at omtribe.org

 

From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] On Behalf Of Rankin, Robert L.
Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2013 4:40 PM
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
Subject: Re: Number 'nine' in Chiwere.

 

Sky,

Yes, the initial k- seems to be part of the original term, probably from *ki-.  Down below your comments I have copied the Comparative Dictionary entry for 'nine'.  As you'll see, several of the languages show traces of the ki- or k-.  My Chiwere recordings showed a glottal stop as residue of the k-.  It's interesting that you found citations of the word with the full k-.

Thanks.

Bob

> Ek jdfk (ikshanke) ? Wdtwhtl Wdwdklha Tva Eva Wdhonetl (1834) by Merrill 

 

> Merrill?s form follows the ordinal number pattern (IE ?ninth? rather than ?nine?) but the ?k? is still present which is what has me curious.  To date, all other sources I?ve come across only have ?sanke/shanke? (or something along those lines) with no ?k?.  It has been mentioned here that ?sanke? was borrowed from Algonquian.  Does the inclusion of ?k? also fit with other Algonquian ?nines??  

Thoughts?

 

GLOSS[ nine

 

GRAMCAT[ N

SEMCAT[ 

 

OTHREC[ {*k???kha}  {GHM58}

 

PMV[ *k???hka ? (?)

 

CH[ ????khe ?nine? rlr

CH[ ???khe ?nine? rtc

 

PDH[ *???hka

OP[ ???kka ? nine ? rlr

OP[ ???kka ? nine ? rtc

KS[ ???kka ? nine ? rlr

OS[ ???hka ? nine, archaic, card game ? rlr

QU[ ??kka ? nine ? rlr

 

PSE[ *ki????hka ? (?)

 

BI[ ??kan? ?tckan??? ?nine? DS:265 (?)

OF[ ?k??t??ka ?k??shtAshga? ?nine? {JRS09:485}

OF[ ?k??cta?cga? ?nine? DS:325b

 

TU[ ?kis???hkai ?t?a (N), s?, s??, ksa?k, ks?hkai, kasankai, ks?kai? ?nine? HH

TU[ ? ks??hk? ? ?nine? Hw.

TU[  ? s?k? ? ?nine? Sapir

TU[  ? kse?k ? ?nine? Fracht.

TU[ ? kis??g, kis?n ? two ? Fracht.

 

COM[ The recorded CH forms imply different underlying sibilants. PSI *? 

often does become [s], but only primary PSI *s > ?}, {i.e.}, CH {?} 

and {?} never vary or alternate regularly. But note also the irregular TU 

{s} where {?} is expected. BI {tckan??} {DS:265a} is probably 

borrowed from Choctaw-Chickasaw {?akk??li} {nine}; {n} is the usual 

BI replacement for Western Muskogean {l} This W. Muskogean term lacks 

Creek, Hitchiti cognates however, and may be from the same ultimate source 

as Siouan {*ki????hka} OF seems to show the intrusive {t} that appears 

following sibilants in {black}, {q.v.} OF {a?} often represents 

denasalized {*?}. {Cf.} also Powhatan {*ke?ka?ta?s} {nine} 

{FS 1975:309} as well as other, well known Algonquian look-alikes such as 

Ojibwa {?a?nk-} Fox {?a?ka}, Shawnee {caakathzwi}, Potawatomi 

{?ak} {nine} {FS 1975:311, Rhodes, personal communication}. The 

distribution of this set (only the more southerly languages represented), the 

sibilant, and other phonological irregularities in CH, OF and TU, coupled 

with the presence of similar terms in both Algonquian and Muskogean 

languages lead us to conclude that this is a loanword. Direction(s) of 

borrowing and/or source of the term is unknown.

 


  ??  


  ??  

 

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From sky at LEGENDREADERS.COM  Sun Mar 30 02:20:19 2014
From: sky at LEGENDREADERS.COM (Sky Campbell)
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2014 21:20:19 -0500
Subject: Number 'nine' in Chiwere.
In-Reply-To: <d487899c1ae941ce9e2939e045d0343f@DM2PR08MB525.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <SAT.29.MAR.2014.212019.0500.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

Your take on the pronunciations are what I have found as well.  Maximilian was really big on the "x" sound which he represented as "ch".  Most of his entries with "ch" have a note that says something like "ch guttural."  And I am also of the opinion that his "sch" is our "sh" sound.  He also simply uses an "s" where he felt it was needed.  Although some of his spellings aren't always consistent when he is going with the same word (used in other areas), he does seem to have taken great care to represent pronunciations as accurately as possible.  Most of his terms have little notes (as I mentioned above) with them.  And from what I've seen of his use of "tsch", it seems to be a "ch" pronounced somewhat forcefully (I don't know the technical term for that).

 

I hadn't considered the idea of the term being reinvented in Osage.  I guess it shouldn't be surprising that a culture that has those types of conventions might fill a need in the same manner as before.

 

I'd wondered about the "xce" as well as far as being an intensifier.  In Otoe-Missouria, you have a few variants that I've come across.  First is more of the "h" sound with "-hji".  But I've also often found that where you have a sort of "intrusive h", there are often "x" variants (for example, hga/xga for "white").  So I've also seen "-xji" as well.  And to top it off, there are a lot of "s" sounds that work in there as well.  I hear the "s" version pronounced often where I work.  So that suffix would be "-sji" (other examples would be "wanuhje/wanusje" for "animal").  Another thing to consider is perhaps Maximilian's "ch" for the "xce" portion might be that "k" sound that emerges with glottal stops (I don't know the technical term for it but Hamilton and Irvin document it a lot in their Ioway books).



When the tribal member pronounced "nanye", the stress was on the first syllable (NAH-nyay).  And if it helps, I've heard tribal members attempt (I say "attempt" since they weren't fluent speakers but were doing their best) the word "daninye/daninge" (drunk) as "dananye".  So perhaps it is a sort of mash-up as you suggest or maybe just a result of the term coming from someone who isn't fully fluent.

 

Sky

 

From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] On Behalf Of Rory Larson
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2014 7:37 PM
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
Subject: Re: Number 'nine' in Chiwere.

 

Sky,

 

Here?s where I really wish we still had Bob around, as the study of loan words from neighbors in the east was one of his specialties.  I?ll toss out what I can here, and maybe someone else will have other ideas.

 

?  Nine, gr??bena ? tscheh ? u?ningk??

?  (the whole run together); i. e.,

?  ten less one; they also say,

?  schangk?

 

I looked up ?nine? in Carolyn Quitero?s Osage Dictionary, and the first (long) term is the only one she seems to have listed:

 

                l?br? hce w??ke

 

Dhegiha *gr- generally goes to l- in Osage and Kaw, but apparently in Maximilian?s time the leading /g/ was still present.  His ??? and his ?eh? apparently both represent what we write as /e/, while the ?e? between the ?b? and the ?n? presumably represents schwa.  The ?n? in the first word would be /r/ followed by a nasal vowel.  In Omaha, the corresponding word for ?ten? at that time was gr?br?, now shortened to gr?b?.

 

I?m not entirely sure what to make of Maximilian?s ?ch? here.  That should be a voiceless velar or palatal fricative of the sort we generally write with /x/, except after s when I think the whole sequence ?sch? is pronounced /?/.  (Our German colleagues can correct me here.)  So then ?tsch? should be pronounced /?/.  But in Carolyn?s Osage orthography, ?c? is pronounced /ts/.  The pre-aspirated sequence hc- seems to equate to the tense stop tt- in Omaha, which would make hce the potential particle that in Omaha is tte and in Dakotan ktA.  Carolyn uses ch- as a post-aspirate where Omaha has the post-aspirated stop t ?  (t + raised h).  So Maximilian?s tscheh might be interpreted here as (ts = c) + (ch = x) + (eh = e), which would get us cxe, or che, the ?standing? positional that in Omaha is t ? e.  In the former case, the first two words would translate as ?would-be ten?, and in the latter case as ?ten standing?.  You may have a good enough sense of Maximilian?s orthography to choose between these.

 

Maximilian?s u? would be our /wi/.  Presumably his ningk? is Osage ??k?, equivalent to Omaha ??g?, ?none? or ?missing?.  So the whole sequence would essentially be ?ten with one missing?, as he says.  Carolyn?s version w??ke doesn?t show the n/?, but I don?t think that should be much of a problem.  In Omaha, that sound is often dropped before the similarly pronounced positional ??k ? ?, so I assume that that is all that happened here.

 

 

?  That got me to thinking about two things.  First, this looks to me like the ?gr??bena ? tscheh ? u?ningk??? was the original term for nine and that ?shangk?? is the interloper.  It makes sense to me that the first version would be the original since it is an actual translation for nine in that language.

 

Perhaps, but it could also be that the ?native? term was reinvented in Osage.  The expression is unpleasantly long to be used commonly as we do, and it suggests a finger-counting system.  It?s likely that post-Mississippian peoples just didn?t need to count that high very often until white traders arrived, and some groups of speakers may have forgotten the older (borrowed) term and reinvented a sensible native replacement that initially had to be cumbersomely explicit.

 

 

?  Maximilian?s entry for ?one? is ?u?nchtsch?? and you can see a portion of that in the ?tscheh? in the above term.

 

Carolyn Quintero has w?, w?xce for ?one?.  The root for ?one? in Osage and Omaha is w?, which can also be used loosely as the article ?a?, ?an?.  To make it explicitly the numeral ?one?, it seems that an intensifying ending is added onto it.  In Osage, that ending is xce (presumably not the same as the potential particle hce).  In Omaha, the more explicit term is w??x?i, presumably a diminutized form of w??xti, in which the suffix -xti is a common intensifier.  What the accented /-?-/ in the middle is doing, I?ve never been able to figure out.  Otherwise, the Osage form here is the same except that its suffix is -xce instead of -xci as I would expect.

 

 

?  Ok, that was more of a ?hey look at this, you may find it interesting? tidbit of information.  Here is the second thought that struck me.  It is the ?u?ningk??? portion of the term which looks related to the Otoe-Missouria ?ninge? which is along the lines of no or none and has even been translated as ?have none.?  That definitely fits with Maximilian?s mention of ?less one.?  Then that got me to thinking again about the Otoe-Missouria ?ninge? which I?ve seen (and heard) as also being pronounced ?ninye.?  And then that got me to thinking about the term for nine that was given to me by a tribal member which was ?nanye? and now I am wondering if that is a possible variant of ?ninye/ninge? and could be a potential long-lost relic of the original Otoe-Missouria term for nine which could very well have been something along the lines of ?ten less one? as well before ?sanke? moved in.

?   

?  Of course I am basing this on me turning my head to the side while looking at it and banking a bit on the similarities between Otoe-Missouria and Osage but this still has drawn my attention and I wanted to get some feedback from you guys to see what you think.

?   

?  Thoughts?

 

I think that?s a very promising idea.  Rather than figuring out a sound shift rule to get us from /ni?/ to /na?/ though, perhaps we could suppose that the /na?/ came about from the effect of a longer sequence that once existed before the ninye, presumably involving ?one?.  Maybe the original was something like iy??ki-ni?ge, which impatiently tonguetwisted speakers radically collapsed to n??ge, and from there to your nanye.

 

Do you happen to remember which syllable of nanye was accented?

 

Best,

Rory

 

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