From dvkanth2010 at GMAIL.COM  Fri Oct  3 13:36:13 2014
From: dvkanth2010 at GMAIL.COM (David Kaufman)
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2014 08:36:13 -0500
Subject: Looking for a Dhegiha (and also maybe Dakota) term
In-Reply-To: <66618E419A5675459B1C8854BED48810FFADD874@server10-ex.omtribe.net>
Message-ID: <FRI.3.OCT.2014.083613.0500.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

Sky,

Kaw óshkaN = act, deed, custom (Kaanze dictionary, 161)

Dave

David Kaufman, Ph.D.
Director, Kaw Nation Language Program

On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 8:01 AM, Campbell, Sky <sky at omtribe.org> wrote:

> I am looking for a term that Dorsey has in his language slips which is:
>
>
>
> wó-khŭⁿ
>
>
>
> He conjugates this term but doesn't translate it.  He lists the Dhegiha
> equivalent as:
>
>
>
> ushkaⁿ
>
>
>
> And the Dakota equivalent as:
>
>
>
> okhaⁿ
>
>
>
> I haven't had any luck finding information on any of these terms.  Anyone
> have any ideas or can maybe point me in the right direction?
>
>
>
> *Sky Campbell*
>
> Language Director
>
> Otoe-Missouria Tribe
>
> (580) 723-4466, ext. 111
>
> sky at omtribe.org
>
>
> -- Manage your subscription at http://listserv.unl.edu. listserv.unl.edu
> lists do not accept incoming email from Yahoo.com, AOL.com or Dropbox.com
> due to thier DMARC policies.

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From jgoodtracks at GMAIL.COM  Fri Oct  3 13:53:45 2014
From: jgoodtracks at GMAIL.COM (Jimm G. GoodTracks)
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2014 08:53:45 -0500
Subject: Looking for a Dhegiha (and also maybe Dakota) term
In-Reply-To: <66618E419A5675459B1C8854BED48810FFADD874@server10-ex.omtribe.net>
Message-ID: <FRI.3.OCT.2014.085345.0500.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

Dorsey has a number of such untranslated words.  There is a Omaha on line dictionary via Mark Swetland and Catherine Rudin, Lincoln, NE.  They were doing Dorsey's Omaha/ Ponca slips.  Also there is an on line Lakota Dict via Lakhota Consortium.   http://www.lakhota.org/   http://lakotadictionary.org/phpBB3/nldo.php


From: Campbell, Sky 
Sent: Friday, October 03, 2014 8:01 AM
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu 
Subject: Looking for a Dhegiha (and also maybe Dakota) term


I am looking for a term that Dorsey has in his language slips which is:

 

wó-khŭⁿ

 

He conjugates this term but doesn't translate it.  He lists the Dhegiha equivalent as:

 

ushkaⁿ

 

And the Dakota equivalent as:

 

okhaⁿ

 

I haven't had any luck finding information on any of these terms.  Anyone have any ideas or can maybe point me in the right direction?

 

Sky Campbell

Language Director

Otoe-Missouria Tribe

(580) 723-4466, ext. 111

sky at omtribe.org

 

-- Manage your subscription at http://listserv.unl.edu. listserv.unl.edu lists do not accept incoming email from Yahoo.com, AOL.com or Dropbox.com due to thier DMARC policies. 

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From sky at OMTRIBE.ORG  Fri Oct  3 13:01:32 2014
From: sky at OMTRIBE.ORG (Campbell, Sky)
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2014 08:01:32 -0500
Subject: Looking for a Dhegiha (and also maybe Dakota) term
Message-ID: <FRI.3.OCT.2014.080132.0500.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

I am looking for a term that Dorsey has in his language slips which is:

wó-khŭⁿ

He conjugates this term but doesn't translate it.  He lists the Dhegiha equivalent as:

ushkaⁿ

And the Dakota equivalent as:

okhaⁿ

I haven't had any luck finding information on any of these terms.  Anyone have any ideas or can maybe point me in the right direction?

Sky Campbell
Language Director
Otoe-Missouria Tribe
(580) 723-4466, ext. 111
sky at omtribe.org


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From sky at OMTRIBE.ORG  Fri Oct  3 16:18:24 2014
From: sky at OMTRIBE.ORG (Campbell, Sky)
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2014 11:18:24 -0500
Subject: Looking for a Dhegiha (and also maybe Dakota) term
In-Reply-To: <9d4406bdb39b4ad48dc24c5bd2e694a6@DM2PR08MB525.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.3.OCT.2014.111824.0500.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

Yea, I saw the "act, deed, custom" from the online Omaha-Ponca dictionary at unl.edu but that doesn't seem to fit.  The whole idea of custom and that sort of thing has me on our usual term of "wosgą" which isn't what I'm after.  I'm going to show two terms that mean roughly the same thing (according to Dorsey) but the second one has the extra term that I'm after:

i-pra-shku-nye - not to be satisfied with what he has; to desire more

i-pra-shku-nye-thke wo-khu - to desire more

So we have "to desire more" expressed twice but I'm trying to figure out what is going on with the extra stuff in the second one.  The entry I asked about earlier came from when I tried to look up "wo-khu" in Dorsey's information where he gave the nasal, accent, etc.  So if we have the "ibra skunyi" talking about not being satisfied or desiring more, then the extra -thge would suggest "like/alike/so/be like/be so/in like manner/equal/somewhat/not very/thus/a little" (that's a lot, I know but as of now that is the whole of my contexts for that term (full term "ithge")).  Up to that point I'm sort of ok but I'm not understanding what is going on with the "wo-khu" after that.  Could we actually be talking about "wosgą" somehow here in the way of custom/habits and this is a term that describes something like "not satisfied - in that way - habitually" (he always wants more/he is never satisfied)?  Only problem is I've never seen a "wo-khu" form of "wosgą" before but I guess it is possible considering other "s" to "th" to "x" shifts that I've seen but I am a bit skeptical.

Sky Campbell
Language Director
Otoe-Missouria Tribe
(580) 723-4466, ext. 111
sky at omtribe.org

From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] On Behalf Of Rory Larson
Sent: Friday, October 03, 2014 10:08 AM
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
Subject: Re: Looking for a Dhegiha (and also maybe Dakota) term

In Omaha, úškaⁿ means ‘activity’ or type of work, as in nú-uškaⁿ, ‘men’s work or customs’, vs. waɁú-uškaⁿ, ‘women’s work or customs’.  It would be about the same as in Kaw.  Underlyingly, it is composed of three elements:

            wa- (a generalizing nominalizer in this case)
            -o-  (a locative prefix meaning something like ‘in’, that places the verb in environmental context)
            -škaⁿ  ‘move’, ‘stir’

I don’t think this Dhegiha word is actually related to either the mystery word wó-khŭⁿ or the Dakota word okhaⁿ, though.  The equivalent Dakota word is óškaⁿ, ‘motion’ or ‘movement’.  Dakota okháⁿ can mean ‘room’, in the sense that there is room for something, or that it isn’t too crowded to fit somebody in.  Omaha has the word ukkóⁿ, which I have down as meaning “space (an open space or place to put something)”, and which should be the equivalent of the Dakota word.

The problem here is the accent.  Since it comes on the second syllable in the Omaha and Dakota forms, it means that there is no initial underlying wa- in those words.  The mystery word with the leading w- and first-syllable accent presumably has a wa- there.  If the base word is in fact the same as the Dakota and Omaha word “have room for”, I’m not sure what the wa- adds to it, or how it would be used in conjugated forms.

Actually though, the Dakota word doesn’t match the mystery word either, because it has /aⁿ/ where the mystery word has /uⁿ/.  Omaha wouldn’t make the distinction, but Dakotan and I believe IOM do.  So we should really be looking at a Dakotan word sounding like okhúⁿ, which I do find described cryptically for Teton with the single example of okhúⁿ wašte, ‘gentle’ or ‘mild’ as some kind of comparative element.  Perhaps some of the Lakhota linguists could help out here.

Best,
Rory


From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] On Behalf Of David Kaufman
Sent: Friday, October 03, 2014 8:36 AM
To: SIOUAN at LISTSERV.UNL.EDU<mailto:SIOUAN at LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>
Subject: Re: Looking for a Dhegiha (and also maybe Dakota) term

Sky,

Kaw óshkaN = act, deed, custom (Kaanze dictionary, 161)

Dave

David Kaufman, Ph.D.
Director, Kaw Nation Language Program

On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 8:01 AM, Campbell, Sky <sky at omtribe.org<mailto:sky at omtribe.org>> wrote:
I am looking for a term that Dorsey has in his language slips which is:

wó-khŭⁿ

He conjugates this term but doesn't translate it.  He lists the Dhegiha equivalent as:

ushkaⁿ

And the Dakota equivalent as:

okhaⁿ

I haven't had any luck finding information on any of these terms.  Anyone have any ideas or can maybe point me in the right direction?

Sky Campbell
Language Director
Otoe-Missouria Tribe
(580) 723-4466, ext. 111<tel:%28580%29%20723-4466%2C%20ext.%20111>
sky at omtribe.org<mailto:sky at omtribe.org>

-- Manage your subscription at http://listserv.unl.edu. listserv.unl.edu<http://listserv.unl.edu> lists do not accept incoming email from Yahoo.com, AOL.com or Dropbox.com due to thier DMARC policies.

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From rlarson1 at UNL.EDU  Fri Oct  3 15:07:45 2014
From: rlarson1 at UNL.EDU (Rory Larson)
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2014 15:07:45 +0000
Subject: Looking for a Dhegiha (and also maybe Dakota) term
In-Reply-To: <CAKapKjStRhjUGvQ9V0pjYw5tDHt86-wPYHkTxoe9gcD3iUxqnw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.3.OCT.2014.150745.0000.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

In Omaha, úškaⁿ means ‘activity’ or type of work, as in nú-uškaⁿ, ‘men’s work or customs’, vs. waɁú-uškaⁿ, ‘women’s work or customs’.  It would be about the same as in Kaw.  Underlyingly, it is composed of three elements:

            wa- (a generalizing nominalizer in this case)
            -o-  (a locative prefix meaning something like ‘in’, that places the verb in environmental context)
            -škaⁿ  ‘move’, ‘stir’

I don’t think this Dhegiha word is actually related to either the mystery word wó-khŭⁿ or the Dakota word okhaⁿ, though.  The equivalent Dakota word is óškaⁿ, ‘motion’ or ‘movement’.  Dakota okháⁿ can mean ‘room’, in the sense that there is room for something, or that it isn’t too crowded to fit somebody in.  Omaha has the word ukkóⁿ, which I have down as meaning “space (an open space or place to put something)”, and which should be the equivalent of the Dakota word.

The problem here is the accent.  Since it comes on the second syllable in the Omaha and Dakota forms, it means that there is no initial underlying wa- in those words.  The mystery word with the leading w- and first-syllable accent presumably has a wa- there.  If the base word is in fact the same as the Dakota and Omaha word “have room for”, I’m not sure what the wa- adds to it, or how it would be used in conjugated forms.

Actually though, the Dakota word doesn’t match the mystery word either, because it has /aⁿ/ where the mystery word has /uⁿ/.  Omaha wouldn’t make the distinction, but Dakotan and I believe IOM do.  So we should really be looking at a Dakotan word sounding like okhúⁿ, which I do find described cryptically for Teton with the single example of okhúⁿ wašte, ‘gentle’ or ‘mild’ as some kind of comparative element.  Perhaps some of the Lakhota linguists could help out here.

Best,
Rory


From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] On Behalf Of David Kaufman
Sent: Friday, October 03, 2014 8:36 AM
To: SIOUAN at LISTSERV.UNL.EDU
Subject: Re: Looking for a Dhegiha (and also maybe Dakota) term

Sky,

Kaw óshkaN = act, deed, custom (Kaanze dictionary, 161)

Dave

David Kaufman, Ph.D.
Director, Kaw Nation Language Program

On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 8:01 AM, Campbell, Sky <sky at omtribe.org<mailto:sky at omtribe.org>> wrote:
I am looking for a term that Dorsey has in his language slips which is:

wó-khŭⁿ

He conjugates this term but doesn't translate it.  He lists the Dhegiha equivalent as:

ushkaⁿ

And the Dakota equivalent as:

okhaⁿ

I haven't had any luck finding information on any of these terms.  Anyone have any ideas or can maybe point me in the right direction?

Sky Campbell
Language Director
Otoe-Missouria Tribe
(580) 723-4466, ext. 111<tel:%28580%29%20723-4466%2C%20ext.%20111>
sky at omtribe.org<mailto:sky at omtribe.org>

-- Manage your subscription at http://listserv.unl.edu. listserv.unl.edu<http://listserv.unl.edu> lists do not accept incoming email from Yahoo.com, AOL.com or Dropbox.com due to thier DMARC policies.

-- Manage your subscription at http://listserv.unl.edu. listserv.unl.edu lists do not accept incoming email from Yahoo.com, AOL.com or Dropbox.com due to thier DMARC policies.

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From jgoodtracks at GMAIL.COM  Fri Oct  3 19:32:45 2014
From: jgoodtracks at GMAIL.COM (Jimm G. GoodTracks)
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2014 14:32:45 -0500
Subject: Looking for a Dhegiha (and also maybe Dakota) term
In-Reply-To: <66618E419A5675459B1C8854BED48810FFADD902@server10-ex.omtribe.net>
Message-ID: <FRI.3.OCT.2014.143245.0500.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

I would tend to think that the "wokhu" (woxu) may be "wexa" (beyond, more than, exceed) or a derivative of it.


From: Campbell, Sky 
Sent: Friday, October 03, 2014 11:18 AM
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu 
Subject: Re: Looking for a Dhegiha (and also maybe Dakota) term


Yea, I saw the "act, deed, custom" from the online Omaha-Ponca dictionary at unl.edu but that doesn't seem to fit.  The whole idea of custom and that sort of thing has me on our usual term of "wosgą" which isn't what I'm after.  I'm going to show two terms that mean roughly the same thing (according to Dorsey) but the second one has the extra term that I'm after:

 

i-pra-shku-nye - not to be satisfied with what he has; to desire more

 

i-pra-shku-nye-thke wo-khu - to desire more

 

So we have "to desire more" expressed twice but I'm trying to figure out what is going on with the extra stuff in the second one.  The entry I asked about earlier came from when I tried to look up "wo-khu" in Dorsey's information where he gave the nasal, accent, etc.  So if we have the "ibra skunyi" talking about not being satisfied or desiring more, then the extra -thge would suggest "like/alike/so/be like/be so/in like manner/equal/somewhat/not very/thus/a little" (that's a lot, I know but as of now that is the whole of my contexts for that term (full term "ithge")).  Up to that point I'm sort of ok but I'm not understanding what is going on with the "wo-khu" after that.  Could we actually be talking about "wosgą" somehow here in the way of custom/habits and this is a term that describes something like "not satisfied - in that way - habitually" (he always wants more/he is never satisfied)?  Only problem is I've never seen a "wo-khu" form of "wosgą" before but I guess it is possible considering other "s" to "th" to "x" shifts that I've seen but I am a bit skeptical.

 

Sky Campbell

Language Director

Otoe-Missouria Tribe

(580) 723-4466, ext. 111

sky at omtribe.org

 

From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] On Behalf Of Rory Larson
Sent: Friday, October 03, 2014 10:08 AM
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
Subject: Re: Looking for a Dhegiha (and also maybe Dakota) term

 

In Omaha, úškaⁿ means ‘activity’ or type of work, as in nú-uškaⁿ, ‘men’s work or customs’, vs. waɁú-uškaⁿ, ‘women’s work or customs’.  It would be about the same as in Kaw.  Underlyingly, it is composed of three elements:

 

            wa- (a generalizing nominalizer in this case)

            -o-  (a locative prefix meaning something like ‘in’, that places the verb in environmental context)

            -škaⁿ  ‘move’, ‘stir’

 

I don’t think this Dhegiha word is actually related to either the mystery word wó-khŭⁿ or the Dakota word okhaⁿ, though.  The equivalent Dakota word is óškaⁿ, ‘motion’ or ‘movement’.  Dakota okháⁿ can mean ‘room’, in the sense that there is room for something, or that it isn’t too crowded to fit somebody in.  Omaha has the word ukkóⁿ, which I have down as meaning “space (an open space or place to put something)”, and which should be the equivalent of the Dakota word.

 

The problem here is the accent.  Since it comes on the second syllable in the Omaha and Dakota forms, it means that there is no initial underlying wa- in those words.  The mystery word with the leading w- and first-syllable accent presumably has a wa- there.  If the base word is in fact the same as the Dakota and Omaha word “have room for”, I’m not sure what the wa- adds to it, or how it would be used in conjugated forms.

 

Actually though, the Dakota word doesn’t match the mystery word either, because it has /aⁿ/ where the mystery word has /uⁿ/.  Omaha wouldn’t make the distinction, but Dakotan and I believe IOM do.  So we should really be looking at a Dakotan word sounding like okhúⁿ, which I do find described cryptically for Teton with the single example of okhúⁿ wašte, ‘gentle’ or ‘mild’ as some kind of comparative element.  Perhaps some of the Lakhota linguists could help out here.

 

Best,

Rory

 

 

From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] On Behalf Of David Kaufman
Sent: Friday, October 03, 2014 8:36 AM
To: SIOUAN at LISTSERV.UNL.EDU
Subject: Re: Looking for a Dhegiha (and also maybe Dakota) term

 

Sky,

 

Kaw óshkaN = act, deed, custom (Kaanze dictionary, 161)

 

Dave




David Kaufman, Ph.D.

Director, Kaw Nation Language Program

 

On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 8:01 AM, Campbell, Sky <sky at omtribe.org> wrote:

I am looking for a term that Dorsey has in his language slips which is:

 

wó-khŭⁿ

 

He conjugates this term but doesn't translate it.  He lists the Dhegiha equivalent as:

 

ushkaⁿ

 

And the Dakota equivalent as:

 

okhaⁿ

 

I haven't had any luck finding information on any of these terms.  Anyone have any ideas or can maybe point me in the right direction?

 

Sky Campbell

Language Director

Otoe-Missouria Tribe

(580) 723-4466, ext. 111

sky at omtribe.org

 

-- Manage your subscription at http://listserv.unl.edu. listserv.unl.edu lists do not accept incoming email from Yahoo.com, AOL.com or Dropbox.com due to thier DMARC policies. 

 

-- Manage your subscription at http://listserv.unl.edu. listserv.unl.edu lists do not accept incoming email from Yahoo.com, AOL.com or Dropbox.com due to thier DMARC policies. 

-- Manage your subscription at http://listserv.unl.edu. listserv.unl.edu lists do not accept incoming email from Yahoo.com, AOL.com or Dropbox.com due to thier DMARC policies. 

-- Manage your subscription at http://listserv.unl.edu. listserv.unl.edu lists do not accept incoming email from Yahoo.com, AOL.com or Dropbox.com due to thier DMARC policies. 

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From sky at LEGENDREADERS.COM  Mon Oct  6 18:39:16 2014
From: sky at LEGENDREADERS.COM (Sky Campbell)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2014 13:39:16 -0500
Subject: Looking for a Dhegiha (and also maybe Dakota) term
In-Reply-To: <2214C0D0ABA6401ABCF33917A455B50E@JGDellLaptop>
Message-ID: <MON.6.OCT.2014.133916.0500.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

Yea, I'd thought of that too but wasn't sure if that phrase was meant to have that much emphasis.  Perhaps it is! :)  I've been going through Dorsey's slips one by one and adding them to my database and I'm hoping I'll come across this again that might help give us more context.

 

Sky

 

From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] On Behalf Of Jimm G. GoodTracks
Sent: Friday, October 3, 2014 2:33 PM
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
Subject: Re: Looking for a Dhegiha (and also maybe Dakota) term

 

I would tend to think that the "wokhu" (woxu) may be "wexa" (beyond, more than, exceed) or a derivative of it.

 

From: Campbell, Sky <mailto:sky at OMTRIBE.ORG>  

Sent: Friday, October 03, 2014 11:18 AM

To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu 

Subject: Re: Looking for a Dhegiha (and also maybe Dakota) term

 

Yea, I saw the "act, deed, custom" from the online Omaha-Ponca dictionary at unl.edu but that doesn't seem to fit.  The whole idea of custom and that sort of thing has me on our usual term of "wosgą" which isn't what I'm after.  I'm going to show two terms that mean roughly the same thing (according to Dorsey) but the second one has the extra term that I'm after:

 

i-pra-shku-nye - not to be satisfied with what he has; to desire more

 

i-pra-shku-nye-thke wo-khu - to desire more

 

So we have "to desire more" expressed twice but I'm trying to figure out what is going on with the extra stuff in the second one.  The entry I asked about earlier came from when I tried to look up "wo-khu" in Dorsey's information where he gave the nasal, accent, etc.  So if we have the "ibra skunyi" talking about not being satisfied or desiring more, then the extra -thge would suggest "like/alike/so/be like/be so/in like manner/equal/somewhat/not very/thus/a little" (that's a lot, I know but as of now that is the whole of my contexts for that term (full term "ithge")).  Up to that point I'm sort of ok but I'm not understanding what is going on with the "wo-khu" after that.  Could we actually be talking about "wosgą" somehow here in the way of custom/habits and this is a term that describes something like "not satisfied - in that way - habitually" (he always wants more/he is never satisfied)?  Only problem is I've never seen a "wo-khu" form of "wosgą" before but I guess it is possible considering other "s" to "th" to "x" shifts that I've seen but I am a bit skeptical.

 

Sky Campbell

Language Director

Otoe-Missouria Tribe

(580) 723-4466, ext. 111

sky at omtribe.org

 

From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] On Behalf Of Rory Larson
Sent: Friday, October 03, 2014 10:08 AM
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
Subject: Re: Looking for a Dhegiha (and also maybe Dakota) term

 

In Omaha, úškaⁿ means ‘activity’ or type of work, as in nú-uškaⁿ, ‘men’s work or customs’, vs. waɁú-uškaⁿ, ‘women’s work or customs’.  It would be about the same as in Kaw.  Underlyingly, it is composed of three elements:

 

            wa- (a generalizing nominalizer in this case)

            -o-  (a locative prefix meaning something like ‘in’, that places the verb in environmental context)

            -škaⁿ  ‘move’, ‘stir’

 

I don’t think this Dhegiha word is actually related to either the mystery word wó-khŭⁿ or the Dakota word okhaⁿ, though.  The equivalent Dakota word is óškaⁿ, ‘motion’ or ‘movement’.  Dakota okháⁿ can mean ‘room’, in the sense that there is room for something, or that it isn’t too crowded to fit somebody in.  Omaha has the word ukkóⁿ, which I have down as meaning “space (an open space or place to put something)”, and which should be the equivalent of the Dakota word.

 

The problem here is the accent.  Since it comes on the second syllable in the Omaha and Dakota forms, it means that there is no initial underlying wa- in those words.  The mystery word with the leading w- and first-syllable accent presumably has a wa- there.  If the base word is in fact the same as the Dakota and Omaha word “have room for”, I’m not sure what the wa- adds to it, or how it would be used in conjugated forms.

 

Actually though, the Dakota word doesn’t match the mystery word either, because it has /aⁿ/ where the mystery word has /uⁿ/.  Omaha wouldn’t make the distinction, but Dakotan and I believe IOM do.  So we should really be looking at a Dakotan word sounding like okhúⁿ, which I do find described cryptically for Teton with the single example of okhúⁿ wašte, ‘gentle’ or ‘mild’ as some kind of comparative element.  Perhaps some of the Lakhota linguists could help out here.

 

Best,

Rory

 

 

From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] On Behalf Of David Kaufman
Sent: Friday, October 03, 2014 8:36 AM
To: SIOUAN at LISTSERV.UNL.EDU
Subject: Re: Looking for a Dhegiha (and also maybe Dakota) term

 

Sky,

 

Kaw óshkaN = act, deed, custom (Kaanze dictionary, 161)

 

Dave




David Kaufman, Ph.D.

Director, Kaw Nation Language Program

 

On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 8:01 AM, Campbell, Sky <sky at omtribe.org> wrote:

I am looking for a term that Dorsey has in his language slips which is:

 

wó-khŭⁿ

 

He conjugates this term but doesn't translate it.  He lists the Dhegiha equivalent as:

 

ushkaⁿ

 

And the Dakota equivalent as:

 

okhaⁿ

 

I haven't had any luck finding information on any of these terms.  Anyone have any ideas or can maybe point me in the right direction?

 

Sky Campbell

Language Director

Otoe-Missouria Tribe

(580) 723-4466, ext. 111 <tel:%28580%29%20723-4466%2C%20ext.%20111> 

sky at omtribe.org

 

-- Manage your subscription at http://listserv.unl.edu. listserv.unl.edu lists do not accept incoming email from Yahoo.com, AOL.com or Dropbox.com due to thier DMARC policies. 

 

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From jgoodtracks at gmail.com  Mon Oct  6 20:11:15 2014
From: jgoodtracks at gmail.com (Jimm G. GoodTracks)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2014 15:11:15 -0500
Subject: Looking for a Dhegiha (and also maybe Dakota) term
In-Reply-To: <002701cfe194$d57aadb0$80700910$@com>
Message-ID: <MON.6.OCT.2014.151115.0500.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

I sure wished that you had made a list of Dorsey's slips before you had added them to you data file, as for the longest time, I've thought of doing the same and adding to the IOM Dict.  It would have been so much more easily to do so from a separate list.  Now, I will be duplicating what you are in process of doing on my end.  Of course, from time to time, I've added some of his slips to a standing entry, but often too, I've simply looked up the entry, took note or compared, and only noted differences with the Dict entry.

Oh, well! Huhuhwa:

PS:  In the late afternoon today, I'll be going off line, and will remain so through Tuesday.  I should be back by Wednesday morn...  irakida ke (when you awake).   


From: Sky Campbell 
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2014 1:39 PM
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu 
Subject: Re: Looking for a Dhegiha (and also maybe Dakota) term


Yea, I'd thought of that too but wasn't sure if that phrase was meant to have that much emphasis.  Perhaps it is! :)  I've been going through Dorsey's slips one by one and adding them to my database and I'm hoping I'll come across this again that might help give us more context.

 

Sky

 

From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] On Behalf Of Jimm G. GoodTracks
Sent: Friday, October 3, 2014 2:33 PM
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
Subject: Re: Looking for a Dhegiha (and also maybe Dakota) term

 

I would tend to think that the "wokhu" (woxu) may be "wexa" (beyond, more than, exceed) or a derivative of it.

 

From: Campbell, Sky 

Sent: Friday, October 03, 2014 11:18 AM

To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu 

Subject: Re: Looking for a Dhegiha (and also maybe Dakota) term

 

Yea, I saw the "act, deed, custom" from the online Omaha-Ponca dictionary at unl.edu but that doesn't seem to fit.  The whole idea of custom and that sort of thing has me on our usual term of "wosgą" which isn't what I'm after.  I'm going to show two terms that mean roughly the same thing (according to Dorsey) but the second one has the extra term that I'm after:

 

i-pra-shku-nye - not to be satisfied with what he has; to desire more

 

i-pra-shku-nye-thke wo-khu - to desire more

 

So we have "to desire more" expressed twice but I'm trying to figure out what is going on with the extra stuff in the second one.  The entry I asked about earlier came from when I tried to look up "wo-khu" in Dorsey's information where he gave the nasal, accent, etc.  So if we have the "ibra skunyi" talking about not being satisfied or desiring more, then the extra -thge would suggest "like/alike/so/be like/be so/in like manner/equal/somewhat/not very/thus/a little" (that's a lot, I know but as of now that is the whole of my contexts for that term (full term "ithge")).  Up to that point I'm sort of ok but I'm not understanding what is going on with the "wo-khu" after that.  Could we actually be talking about "wosgą" somehow here in the way of custom/habits and this is a term that describes something like "not satisfied - in that way - habitually" (he always wants more/he is never satisfied)?  Only problem is I've never seen a "wo-khu" form of "wosgą" before but I guess it is possible considering other "s" to "th" to "x" shifts that I've seen but I am a bit skeptical.

 

Sky Campbell

Language Director

Otoe-Missouria Tribe

(580) 723-4466, ext. 111

sky at omtribe.org

 

From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] On Behalf Of Rory Larson
Sent: Friday, October 03, 2014 10:08 AM
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
Subject: Re: Looking for a Dhegiha (and also maybe Dakota) term

 

In Omaha, úškaⁿ means ‘activity’ or type of work, as in nú-uškaⁿ, ‘men’s work or customs’, vs. waɁú-uškaⁿ, ‘women’s work or customs’.  It would be about the same as in Kaw.  Underlyingly, it is composed of three elements:

 

            wa- (a generalizing nominalizer in this case)

            -o-  (a locative prefix meaning something like ‘in’, that places the verb in environmental context)

            -škaⁿ  ‘move’, ‘stir’

 

I don’t think this Dhegiha word is actually related to either the mystery word wó-khŭⁿ or the Dakota word okhaⁿ, though.  The equivalent Dakota word is óškaⁿ, ‘motion’ or ‘movement’.  Dakota okháⁿ can mean ‘room’, in the sense that there is room for something, or that it isn’t too crowded to fit somebody in.  Omaha has the word ukkóⁿ, which I have down as meaning “space (an open space or place to put something)”, and which should be the equivalent of the Dakota word.

 

The problem here is the accent.  Since it comes on the second syllable in the Omaha and Dakota forms, it means that there is no initial underlying wa- in those words.  The mystery word with the leading w- and first-syllable accent presumably has a wa- there.  If the base word is in fact the same as the Dakota and Omaha word “have room for”, I’m not sure what the wa- adds to it, or how it would be used in conjugated forms.

 

Actually though, the Dakota word doesn’t match the mystery word either, because it has /aⁿ/ where the mystery word has /uⁿ/.  Omaha wouldn’t make the distinction, but Dakotan and I believe IOM do.  So we should really be looking at a Dakotan word sounding like okhúⁿ, which I do find described cryptically for Teton with the single example of okhúⁿ wašte, ‘gentle’ or ‘mild’ as some kind of comparative element.  Perhaps some of the Lakhota linguists could help out here.

 

Best,

Rory

 

 

From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] On Behalf Of David Kaufman
Sent: Friday, October 03, 2014 8:36 AM
To: SIOUAN at LISTSERV.UNL.EDU
Subject: Re: Looking for a Dhegiha (and also maybe Dakota) term

 

Sky,

 

Kaw óshkaN = act, deed, custom (Kaanze dictionary, 161)

 

Dave




David Kaufman, Ph.D.

Director, Kaw Nation Language Program

 

On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 8:01 AM, Campbell, Sky <sky at omtribe.org> wrote:

I am looking for a term that Dorsey has in his language slips which is:

 

wó-khŭⁿ

 

He conjugates this term but doesn't translate it.  He lists the Dhegiha equivalent as:

 

ushkaⁿ

 

And the Dakota equivalent as:

 

okhaⁿ

 

I haven't had any luck finding information on any of these terms.  Anyone have any ideas or can maybe point me in the right direction?

 

Sky Campbell

Language Director

Otoe-Missouria Tribe

(580) 723-4466, ext. 111

sky at omtribe.org

 

-- Manage your subscription at http://listserv.unl.edu. listserv.unl.edu lists do not accept incoming email from Yahoo.com, AOL.com or Dropbox.com due to thier DMARC policies. 

 

-- Manage your subscription at http://listserv.unl.edu. listserv.unl.edu lists do not accept incoming email from Yahoo.com, AOL.com or Dropbox.com due to thier DMARC policies. 

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From sky at LEGENDREADERS.COM  Tue Oct  7 03:51:31 2014
From: sky at LEGENDREADERS.COM (Sky Campbell)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2014 22:51:31 -0500
Subject: Looking for a Dhegiha (and also maybe Dakota) term
In-Reply-To: <C5E77B0198A749CF9D6BA6051C5471F1@JGDellLaptop>
Message-ID: <MON.6.OCT.2014.225131.0500.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

Don't worry...I'll be able to filter them in my database so only his terms show up :).

 

Sky

 

From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] On Behalf Of Jimm G. GoodTracks
Sent: Monday, October 6, 2014 3:11 PM
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
Subject: Re: Looking for a Dhegiha (and also maybe Dakota) term

 

I sure wished that you had made a list of Dorsey's slips before you had added them to you data file, as for the longest time, I've thought of doing the same and adding to the IOM Dict.  It would have been so much more easily to do so from a separate list.  Now, I will be duplicating what you are in process of doing on my end.  Of course, from time to time, I've added some of his slips to a standing entry, but often too, I've simply looked up the entry, took note or compared, and only noted differences with the Dict entry.

 

Oh, well! Huhuhwa:

 

PS:  In the late afternoon today, I'll be going off line, and will remain so through Tuesday.  I should be back by Wednesday morn...  irakida ke (when you awake).   

 

From: Sky Campbell <mailto:sky at LEGENDREADERS.COM>  

Sent: Monday, October 06, 2014 1:39 PM

To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu 

Subject: Re: Looking for a Dhegiha (and also maybe Dakota) term

 

Yea, I'd thought of that too but wasn't sure if that phrase was meant to have that much emphasis.  Perhaps it is! :)  I've been going through Dorsey's slips one by one and adding them to my database and I'm hoping I'll come across this again that might help give us more context.

 

Sky

 

From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] On Behalf Of Jimm G. GoodTracks
Sent: Friday, October 3, 2014 2:33 PM
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
Subject: Re: Looking for a Dhegiha (and also maybe Dakota) term

 

I would tend to think that the "wokhu" (woxu) may be "wexa" (beyond, more than, exceed) or a derivative of it.

 

From: Campbell, Sky <mailto:sky at OMTRIBE.ORG>  

Sent: Friday, October 03, 2014 11:18 AM

To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu 

Subject: Re: Looking for a Dhegiha (and also maybe Dakota) term

 

Yea, I saw the "act, deed, custom" from the online Omaha-Ponca dictionary at unl.edu but that doesn't seem to fit.  The whole idea of custom and that sort of thing has me on our usual term of "wosgą" which isn't what I'm after.  I'm going to show two terms that mean roughly the same thing (according to Dorsey) but the second one has the extra term that I'm after:

 

i-pra-shku-nye - not to be satisfied with what he has; to desire more

 

i-pra-shku-nye-thke wo-khu - to desire more

 

So we have "to desire more" expressed twice but I'm trying to figure out what is going on with the extra stuff in the second one.  The entry I asked about earlier came from when I tried to look up "wo-khu" in Dorsey's information where he gave the nasal, accent, etc.  So if we have the "ibra skunyi" talking about not being satisfied or desiring more, then the extra -thge would suggest "like/alike/so/be like/be so/in like manner/equal/somewhat/not very/thus/a little" (that's a lot, I know but as of now that is the whole of my contexts for that term (full term "ithge")).  Up to that point I'm sort of ok but I'm not understanding what is going on with the "wo-khu" after that.  Could we actually be talking about "wosgą" somehow here in the way of custom/habits and this is a term that describes something like "not satisfied - in that way - habitually" (he always wants more/he is never satisfied)?  Only problem is I've never seen a "wo-khu" form of "wosgą" before but I guess it is possible considering other "s" to "th" to "x" shifts that I've seen but I am a bit skeptical.

 

Sky Campbell

Language Director

Otoe-Missouria Tribe

(580) 723-4466, ext. 111

sky at omtribe.org

 

From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] On Behalf Of Rory Larson
Sent: Friday, October 03, 2014 10:08 AM
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
Subject: Re: Looking for a Dhegiha (and also maybe Dakota) term

 

In Omaha, úškaⁿ means ‘activity’ or type of work, as in nú-uškaⁿ, ‘men’s work or customs’, vs. waɁú-uškaⁿ, ‘women’s work or customs’.  It would be about the same as in Kaw.  Underlyingly, it is composed of three elements:

 

            wa- (a generalizing nominalizer in this case)

            -o-  (a locative prefix meaning something like ‘in’, that places the verb in environmental context)

            -škaⁿ  ‘move’, ‘stir’

 

I don’t think this Dhegiha word is actually related to either the mystery word wó-khŭⁿ or the Dakota word okhaⁿ, though.  The equivalent Dakota word is óškaⁿ, ‘motion’ or ‘movement’.  Dakota okháⁿ can mean ‘room’, in the sense that there is room for something, or that it isn’t too crowded to fit somebody in.  Omaha has the word ukkóⁿ, which I have down as meaning “space (an open space or place to put something)”, and which should be the equivalent of the Dakota word.

 

The problem here is the accent.  Since it comes on the second syllable in the Omaha and Dakota forms, it means that there is no initial underlying wa- in those words.  The mystery word with the leading w- and first-syllable accent presumably has a wa- there.  If the base word is in fact the same as the Dakota and Omaha word “have room for”, I’m not sure what the wa- adds to it, or how it would be used in conjugated forms.

 

Actually though, the Dakota word doesn’t match the mystery word either, because it has /aⁿ/ where the mystery word has /uⁿ/.  Omaha wouldn’t make the distinction, but Dakotan and I believe IOM do.  So we should really be looking at a Dakotan word sounding like okhúⁿ, which I do find described cryptically for Teton with the single example of okhúⁿ wašte, ‘gentle’ or ‘mild’ as some kind of comparative element.  Perhaps some of the Lakhota linguists could help out here.

 

Best,

Rory

 

 

From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] On Behalf Of David Kaufman
Sent: Friday, October 03, 2014 8:36 AM
To: SIOUAN at LISTSERV.UNL.EDU
Subject: Re: Looking for a Dhegiha (and also maybe Dakota) term

 

Sky,

 

Kaw óshkaN = act, deed, custom (Kaanze dictionary, 161)

 

Dave




David Kaufman, Ph.D.

Director, Kaw Nation Language Program

 

On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 8:01 AM, Campbell, Sky <sky at omtribe.org> wrote:

I am looking for a term that Dorsey has in his language slips which is:

 

wó-khŭⁿ

 

He conjugates this term but doesn't translate it.  He lists the Dhegiha equivalent as:

 

ushkaⁿ

 

And the Dakota equivalent as:

 

okhaⁿ

 

I haven't had any luck finding information on any of these terms.  Anyone have any ideas or can maybe point me in the right direction?

 

Sky Campbell

Language Director

Otoe-Missouria Tribe

(580) 723-4466, ext. 111 <tel:%28580%29%20723-4466%2C%20ext.%20111> 

sky at omtribe.org

 

-- Manage your subscription at http://listserv.unl.edu. listserv.unl.edu lists do not accept incoming email from Yahoo.com, AOL.com or Dropbox.com due to thier DMARC policies. 

 

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From dvkanth2010 at GMAIL.COM  Fri Oct  3 13:36:13 2014
From: dvkanth2010 at GMAIL.COM (David Kaufman)
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2014 08:36:13 -0500
Subject: Looking for a Dhegiha (and also maybe Dakota) term
In-Reply-To: <66618E419A5675459B1C8854BED48810FFADD874@server10-ex.omtribe.net>
Message-ID: <FRI.3.OCT.2014.083613.0500.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

Sky,

Kaw ?shkaN = act, deed, custom (Kaanze dictionary, 161)

Dave

David Kaufman, Ph.D.
Director, Kaw Nation Language Program

On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 8:01 AM, Campbell, Sky <sky at omtribe.org> wrote:

> I am looking for a term that Dorsey has in his language slips which is:
>
>
>
> w?-kh??
>
>
>
> He conjugates this term but doesn't translate it.  He lists the Dhegiha
> equivalent as:
>
>
>
> ushka?
>
>
>
> And the Dakota equivalent as:
>
>
>
> okha?
>
>
>
> I haven't had any luck finding information on any of these terms.  Anyone
> have any ideas or can maybe point me in the right direction?
>
>
>
> *Sky Campbell*
>
> Language Director
>
> Otoe-Missouria Tribe
>
> (580) 723-4466, ext. 111
>
> sky at omtribe.org
>
>
> -- Manage your subscription at http://listserv.unl.edu. listserv.unl.edu
> lists do not accept incoming email from Yahoo.com, AOL.com or Dropbox.com
> due to thier DMARC policies.

--
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From jgoodtracks at GMAIL.COM  Fri Oct  3 13:53:45 2014
From: jgoodtracks at GMAIL.COM (Jimm G. GoodTracks)
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2014 08:53:45 -0500
Subject: Looking for a Dhegiha (and also maybe Dakota) term
In-Reply-To: <66618E419A5675459B1C8854BED48810FFADD874@server10-ex.omtribe.net>
Message-ID: <FRI.3.OCT.2014.085345.0500.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

Dorsey has a number of such untranslated words.  There is a Omaha on line dictionary via Mark Swetland and Catherine Rudin, Lincoln, NE.  They were doing Dorsey's Omaha/ Ponca slips.  Also there is an on line Lakota Dict via Lakhota Consortium.   http://www.lakhota.org/   http://lakotadictionary.org/phpBB3/nldo.php


From: Campbell, Sky 
Sent: Friday, October 03, 2014 8:01 AM
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu 
Subject: Looking for a Dhegiha (and also maybe Dakota) term


I am looking for a term that Dorsey has in his language slips which is:

 

w?-kh??

 

He conjugates this term but doesn't translate it.  He lists the Dhegiha equivalent as:

 

ushka?

 

And the Dakota equivalent as:

 

okha?

 

I haven't had any luck finding information on any of these terms.  Anyone have any ideas or can maybe point me in the right direction?

 

Sky Campbell

Language Director

Otoe-Missouria Tribe

(580) 723-4466, ext. 111

sky at omtribe.org

 

-- Manage your subscription at http://listserv.unl.edu. listserv.unl.edu lists do not accept incoming email from Yahoo.com, AOL.com or Dropbox.com due to thier DMARC policies. 

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From sky at OMTRIBE.ORG  Fri Oct  3 13:01:32 2014
From: sky at OMTRIBE.ORG (Campbell, Sky)
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2014 08:01:32 -0500
Subject: Looking for a Dhegiha (and also maybe Dakota) term
Message-ID: <FRI.3.OCT.2014.080132.0500.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

I am looking for a term that Dorsey has in his language slips which is:

w?-kh??

He conjugates this term but doesn't translate it.  He lists the Dhegiha equivalent as:

ushka?

And the Dakota equivalent as:

okha?

I haven't had any luck finding information on any of these terms.  Anyone have any ideas or can maybe point me in the right direction?

Sky Campbell
Language Director
Otoe-Missouria Tribe
(580) 723-4466, ext. 111
sky at omtribe.org


--
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From sky at OMTRIBE.ORG  Fri Oct  3 16:18:24 2014
From: sky at OMTRIBE.ORG (Campbell, Sky)
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2014 11:18:24 -0500
Subject: Looking for a Dhegiha (and also maybe Dakota) term
In-Reply-To: <9d4406bdb39b4ad48dc24c5bd2e694a6@DM2PR08MB525.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.3.OCT.2014.111824.0500.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

Yea, I saw the "act, deed, custom" from the online Omaha-Ponca dictionary at unl.edu but that doesn't seem to fit.  The whole idea of custom and that sort of thing has me on our usual term of "wosg?" which isn't what I'm after.  I'm going to show two terms that mean roughly the same thing (according to Dorsey) but the second one has the extra term that I'm after:

i-pra-shku-nye - not to be satisfied with what he has; to desire more

i-pra-shku-nye-thke wo-khu - to desire more

So we have "to desire more" expressed twice but I'm trying to figure out what is going on with the extra stuff in the second one.  The entry I asked about earlier came from when I tried to look up "wo-khu" in Dorsey's information where he gave the nasal, accent, etc.  So if we have the "ibra skunyi" talking about not being satisfied or desiring more, then the extra -thge would suggest "like/alike/so/be like/be so/in like manner/equal/somewhat/not very/thus/a little" (that's a lot, I know but as of now that is the whole of my contexts for that term (full term "ithge")).  Up to that point I'm sort of ok but I'm not understanding what is going on with the "wo-khu" after that.  Could we actually be talking about "wosg?" somehow here in the way of custom/habits and this is a term that describes something like "not satisfied - in that way - habitually" (he always wants more/he is never satisfied)?  Only problem is I've never seen a "wo-khu" form of "wosg?" before but I guess it is possible considering other "s" to "th" to "x" shifts that I've seen but I am a bit skeptical.

Sky Campbell
Language Director
Otoe-Missouria Tribe
(580) 723-4466, ext. 111
sky at omtribe.org

From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] On Behalf Of Rory Larson
Sent: Friday, October 03, 2014 10:08 AM
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
Subject: Re: Looking for a Dhegiha (and also maybe Dakota) term

In Omaha, ??ka? means ?activity? or type of work, as in n?-u?ka?, ?men?s work or customs?, vs. wa??-u?ka?, ?women?s work or customs?.  It would be about the same as in Kaw.  Underlyingly, it is composed of three elements:

            wa- (a generalizing nominalizer in this case)
            -o-  (a locative prefix meaning something like ?in?, that places the verb in environmental context)
            -?ka?  ?move?, ?stir?

I don?t think this Dhegiha word is actually related to either the mystery word w?-kh?? or the Dakota word okha?, though.  The equivalent Dakota word is ??ka?, ?motion? or ?movement?.  Dakota okh?? can mean ?room?, in the sense that there is room for something, or that it isn?t too crowded to fit somebody in.  Omaha has the word ukk??, which I have down as meaning ?space (an open space or place to put something)?, and which should be the equivalent of the Dakota word.

The problem here is the accent.  Since it comes on the second syllable in the Omaha and Dakota forms, it means that there is no initial underlying wa- in those words.  The mystery word with the leading w- and first-syllable accent presumably has a wa- there.  If the base word is in fact the same as the Dakota and Omaha word ?have room for?, I?m not sure what the wa- adds to it, or how it would be used in conjugated forms.

Actually though, the Dakota word doesn?t match the mystery word either, because it has /a?/ where the mystery word has /u?/.  Omaha wouldn?t make the distinction, but Dakotan and I believe IOM do.  So we should really be looking at a Dakotan word sounding like okh??, which I do find described cryptically for Teton with the single example of okh?? wa?te, ?gentle? or ?mild? as some kind of comparative element.  Perhaps some of the Lakhota linguists could help out here.

Best,
Rory


From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] On Behalf Of David Kaufman
Sent: Friday, October 03, 2014 8:36 AM
To: SIOUAN at LISTSERV.UNL.EDU<mailto:SIOUAN at LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>
Subject: Re: Looking for a Dhegiha (and also maybe Dakota) term

Sky,

Kaw ?shkaN = act, deed, custom (Kaanze dictionary, 161)

Dave

David Kaufman, Ph.D.
Director, Kaw Nation Language Program

On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 8:01 AM, Campbell, Sky <sky at omtribe.org<mailto:sky at omtribe.org>> wrote:
I am looking for a term that Dorsey has in his language slips which is:

w?-kh??

He conjugates this term but doesn't translate it.  He lists the Dhegiha equivalent as:

ushka?

And the Dakota equivalent as:

okha?

I haven't had any luck finding information on any of these terms.  Anyone have any ideas or can maybe point me in the right direction?

Sky Campbell
Language Director
Otoe-Missouria Tribe
(580) 723-4466, ext. 111<tel:%28580%29%20723-4466%2C%20ext.%20111>
sky at omtribe.org<mailto:sky at omtribe.org>

-- Manage your subscription at http://listserv.unl.edu. listserv.unl.edu<http://listserv.unl.edu> lists do not accept incoming email from Yahoo.com, AOL.com or Dropbox.com due to thier DMARC policies.

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From rlarson1 at UNL.EDU  Fri Oct  3 15:07:45 2014
From: rlarson1 at UNL.EDU (Rory Larson)
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2014 15:07:45 +0000
Subject: Looking for a Dhegiha (and also maybe Dakota) term
In-Reply-To: <CAKapKjStRhjUGvQ9V0pjYw5tDHt86-wPYHkTxoe9gcD3iUxqnw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.3.OCT.2014.150745.0000.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

In Omaha, ??ka? means ?activity? or type of work, as in n?-u?ka?, ?men?s work or customs?, vs. wa??-u?ka?, ?women?s work or customs?.  It would be about the same as in Kaw.  Underlyingly, it is composed of three elements:

            wa- (a generalizing nominalizer in this case)
            -o-  (a locative prefix meaning something like ?in?, that places the verb in environmental context)
            -?ka?  ?move?, ?stir?

I don?t think this Dhegiha word is actually related to either the mystery word w?-kh?? or the Dakota word okha?, though.  The equivalent Dakota word is ??ka?, ?motion? or ?movement?.  Dakota okh?? can mean ?room?, in the sense that there is room for something, or that it isn?t too crowded to fit somebody in.  Omaha has the word ukk??, which I have down as meaning ?space (an open space or place to put something)?, and which should be the equivalent of the Dakota word.

The problem here is the accent.  Since it comes on the second syllable in the Omaha and Dakota forms, it means that there is no initial underlying wa- in those words.  The mystery word with the leading w- and first-syllable accent presumably has a wa- there.  If the base word is in fact the same as the Dakota and Omaha word ?have room for?, I?m not sure what the wa- adds to it, or how it would be used in conjugated forms.

Actually though, the Dakota word doesn?t match the mystery word either, because it has /a?/ where the mystery word has /u?/.  Omaha wouldn?t make the distinction, but Dakotan and I believe IOM do.  So we should really be looking at a Dakotan word sounding like okh??, which I do find described cryptically for Teton with the single example of okh?? wa?te, ?gentle? or ?mild? as some kind of comparative element.  Perhaps some of the Lakhota linguists could help out here.

Best,
Rory


From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] On Behalf Of David Kaufman
Sent: Friday, October 03, 2014 8:36 AM
To: SIOUAN at LISTSERV.UNL.EDU
Subject: Re: Looking for a Dhegiha (and also maybe Dakota) term

Sky,

Kaw ?shkaN = act, deed, custom (Kaanze dictionary, 161)

Dave

David Kaufman, Ph.D.
Director, Kaw Nation Language Program

On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 8:01 AM, Campbell, Sky <sky at omtribe.org<mailto:sky at omtribe.org>> wrote:
I am looking for a term that Dorsey has in his language slips which is:

w?-kh??

He conjugates this term but doesn't translate it.  He lists the Dhegiha equivalent as:

ushka?

And the Dakota equivalent as:

okha?

I haven't had any luck finding information on any of these terms.  Anyone have any ideas or can maybe point me in the right direction?

Sky Campbell
Language Director
Otoe-Missouria Tribe
(580) 723-4466, ext. 111<tel:%28580%29%20723-4466%2C%20ext.%20111>
sky at omtribe.org<mailto:sky at omtribe.org>

-- Manage your subscription at http://listserv.unl.edu. listserv.unl.edu<http://listserv.unl.edu> lists do not accept incoming email from Yahoo.com, AOL.com or Dropbox.com due to thier DMARC policies.

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From jgoodtracks at GMAIL.COM  Fri Oct  3 19:32:45 2014
From: jgoodtracks at GMAIL.COM (Jimm G. GoodTracks)
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2014 14:32:45 -0500
Subject: Looking for a Dhegiha (and also maybe Dakota) term
In-Reply-To: <66618E419A5675459B1C8854BED48810FFADD902@server10-ex.omtribe.net>
Message-ID: <FRI.3.OCT.2014.143245.0500.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

I would tend to think that the "wokhu" (woxu) may be "wexa" (beyond, more than, exceed) or a derivative of it.


From: Campbell, Sky 
Sent: Friday, October 03, 2014 11:18 AM
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu 
Subject: Re: Looking for a Dhegiha (and also maybe Dakota) term


Yea, I saw the "act, deed, custom" from the online Omaha-Ponca dictionary at unl.edu but that doesn't seem to fit.  The whole idea of custom and that sort of thing has me on our usual term of "wosg?" which isn't what I'm after.  I'm going to show two terms that mean roughly the same thing (according to Dorsey) but the second one has the extra term that I'm after:

 

i-pra-shku-nye - not to be satisfied with what he has; to desire more

 

i-pra-shku-nye-thke wo-khu - to desire more

 

So we have "to desire more" expressed twice but I'm trying to figure out what is going on with the extra stuff in the second one.  The entry I asked about earlier came from when I tried to look up "wo-khu" in Dorsey's information where he gave the nasal, accent, etc.  So if we have the "ibra skunyi" talking about not being satisfied or desiring more, then the extra -thge would suggest "like/alike/so/be like/be so/in like manner/equal/somewhat/not very/thus/a little" (that's a lot, I know but as of now that is the whole of my contexts for that term (full term "ithge")).  Up to that point I'm sort of ok but I'm not understanding what is going on with the "wo-khu" after that.  Could we actually be talking about "wosg?" somehow here in the way of custom/habits and this is a term that describes something like "not satisfied - in that way - habitually" (he always wants more/he is never satisfied)?  Only problem is I've never seen a "wo-khu" form of "wosg?" before but I guess it is possible considering other "s" to "th" to "x" shifts that I've seen but I am a bit skeptical.

 

Sky Campbell

Language Director

Otoe-Missouria Tribe

(580) 723-4466, ext. 111

sky at omtribe.org

 

From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] On Behalf Of Rory Larson
Sent: Friday, October 03, 2014 10:08 AM
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
Subject: Re: Looking for a Dhegiha (and also maybe Dakota) term

 

In Omaha, ??ka? means ?activity? or type of work, as in n?-u?ka?, ?men?s work or customs?, vs. wa??-u?ka?, ?women?s work or customs?.  It would be about the same as in Kaw.  Underlyingly, it is composed of three elements:

 

            wa- (a generalizing nominalizer in this case)

            -o-  (a locative prefix meaning something like ?in?, that places the verb in environmental context)

            -?ka?  ?move?, ?stir?

 

I don?t think this Dhegiha word is actually related to either the mystery word w?-kh?? or the Dakota word okha?, though.  The equivalent Dakota word is ??ka?, ?motion? or ?movement?.  Dakota okh?? can mean ?room?, in the sense that there is room for something, or that it isn?t too crowded to fit somebody in.  Omaha has the word ukk??, which I have down as meaning ?space (an open space or place to put something)?, and which should be the equivalent of the Dakota word.

 

The problem here is the accent.  Since it comes on the second syllable in the Omaha and Dakota forms, it means that there is no initial underlying wa- in those words.  The mystery word with the leading w- and first-syllable accent presumably has a wa- there.  If the base word is in fact the same as the Dakota and Omaha word ?have room for?, I?m not sure what the wa- adds to it, or how it would be used in conjugated forms.

 

Actually though, the Dakota word doesn?t match the mystery word either, because it has /a?/ where the mystery word has /u?/.  Omaha wouldn?t make the distinction, but Dakotan and I believe IOM do.  So we should really be looking at a Dakotan word sounding like okh??, which I do find described cryptically for Teton with the single example of okh?? wa?te, ?gentle? or ?mild? as some kind of comparative element.  Perhaps some of the Lakhota linguists could help out here.

 

Best,

Rory

 

 

From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] On Behalf Of David Kaufman
Sent: Friday, October 03, 2014 8:36 AM
To: SIOUAN at LISTSERV.UNL.EDU
Subject: Re: Looking for a Dhegiha (and also maybe Dakota) term

 

Sky,

 

Kaw ?shkaN = act, deed, custom (Kaanze dictionary, 161)

 

Dave




David Kaufman, Ph.D.

Director, Kaw Nation Language Program

 

On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 8:01 AM, Campbell, Sky <sky at omtribe.org> wrote:

I am looking for a term that Dorsey has in his language slips which is:

 

w?-kh??

 

He conjugates this term but doesn't translate it.  He lists the Dhegiha equivalent as:

 

ushka?

 

And the Dakota equivalent as:

 

okha?

 

I haven't had any luck finding information on any of these terms.  Anyone have any ideas or can maybe point me in the right direction?

 

Sky Campbell

Language Director

Otoe-Missouria Tribe

(580) 723-4466, ext. 111

sky at omtribe.org

 

-- Manage your subscription at http://listserv.unl.edu. listserv.unl.edu lists do not accept incoming email from Yahoo.com, AOL.com or Dropbox.com due to thier DMARC policies. 

 

-- Manage your subscription at http://listserv.unl.edu. listserv.unl.edu lists do not accept incoming email from Yahoo.com, AOL.com or Dropbox.com due to thier DMARC policies. 

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From sky at LEGENDREADERS.COM  Mon Oct  6 18:39:16 2014
From: sky at LEGENDREADERS.COM (Sky Campbell)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2014 13:39:16 -0500
Subject: Looking for a Dhegiha (and also maybe Dakota) term
In-Reply-To: <2214C0D0ABA6401ABCF33917A455B50E@JGDellLaptop>
Message-ID: <MON.6.OCT.2014.133916.0500.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

Yea, I'd thought of that too but wasn't sure if that phrase was meant to have that much emphasis.  Perhaps it is! :)  I've been going through Dorsey's slips one by one and adding them to my database and I'm hoping I'll come across this again that might help give us more context.

 

Sky

 

From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] On Behalf Of Jimm G. GoodTracks
Sent: Friday, October 3, 2014 2:33 PM
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
Subject: Re: Looking for a Dhegiha (and also maybe Dakota) term

 

I would tend to think that the "wokhu" (woxu) may be "wexa" (beyond, more than, exceed) or a derivative of it.

 

From: Campbell, Sky <mailto:sky at OMTRIBE.ORG>  

Sent: Friday, October 03, 2014 11:18 AM

To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu 

Subject: Re: Looking for a Dhegiha (and also maybe Dakota) term

 

Yea, I saw the "act, deed, custom" from the online Omaha-Ponca dictionary at unl.edu but that doesn't seem to fit.  The whole idea of custom and that sort of thing has me on our usual term of "wosg?" which isn't what I'm after.  I'm going to show two terms that mean roughly the same thing (according to Dorsey) but the second one has the extra term that I'm after:

 

i-pra-shku-nye - not to be satisfied with what he has; to desire more

 

i-pra-shku-nye-thke wo-khu - to desire more

 

So we have "to desire more" expressed twice but I'm trying to figure out what is going on with the extra stuff in the second one.  The entry I asked about earlier came from when I tried to look up "wo-khu" in Dorsey's information where he gave the nasal, accent, etc.  So if we have the "ibra skunyi" talking about not being satisfied or desiring more, then the extra -thge would suggest "like/alike/so/be like/be so/in like manner/equal/somewhat/not very/thus/a little" (that's a lot, I know but as of now that is the whole of my contexts for that term (full term "ithge")).  Up to that point I'm sort of ok but I'm not understanding what is going on with the "wo-khu" after that.  Could we actually be talking about "wosg?" somehow here in the way of custom/habits and this is a term that describes something like "not satisfied - in that way - habitually" (he always wants more/he is never satisfied)?  Only problem is I've never seen a "wo-khu" form of "wosg?" before but I guess it is possible considering other "s" to "th" to "x" shifts that I've seen but I am a bit skeptical.

 

Sky Campbell

Language Director

Otoe-Missouria Tribe

(580) 723-4466, ext. 111

sky at omtribe.org

 

From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] On Behalf Of Rory Larson
Sent: Friday, October 03, 2014 10:08 AM
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
Subject: Re: Looking for a Dhegiha (and also maybe Dakota) term

 

In Omaha, ??ka? means ?activity? or type of work, as in n?-u?ka?, ?men?s work or customs?, vs. wa??-u?ka?, ?women?s work or customs?.  It would be about the same as in Kaw.  Underlyingly, it is composed of three elements:

 

            wa- (a generalizing nominalizer in this case)

            -o-  (a locative prefix meaning something like ?in?, that places the verb in environmental context)

            -?ka?  ?move?, ?stir?

 

I don?t think this Dhegiha word is actually related to either the mystery word w?-kh?? or the Dakota word okha?, though.  The equivalent Dakota word is ??ka?, ?motion? or ?movement?.  Dakota okh?? can mean ?room?, in the sense that there is room for something, or that it isn?t too crowded to fit somebody in.  Omaha has the word ukk??, which I have down as meaning ?space (an open space or place to put something)?, and which should be the equivalent of the Dakota word.

 

The problem here is the accent.  Since it comes on the second syllable in the Omaha and Dakota forms, it means that there is no initial underlying wa- in those words.  The mystery word with the leading w- and first-syllable accent presumably has a wa- there.  If the base word is in fact the same as the Dakota and Omaha word ?have room for?, I?m not sure what the wa- adds to it, or how it would be used in conjugated forms.

 

Actually though, the Dakota word doesn?t match the mystery word either, because it has /a?/ where the mystery word has /u?/.  Omaha wouldn?t make the distinction, but Dakotan and I believe IOM do.  So we should really be looking at a Dakotan word sounding like okh??, which I do find described cryptically for Teton with the single example of okh?? wa?te, ?gentle? or ?mild? as some kind of comparative element.  Perhaps some of the Lakhota linguists could help out here.

 

Best,

Rory

 

 

From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] On Behalf Of David Kaufman
Sent: Friday, October 03, 2014 8:36 AM
To: SIOUAN at LISTSERV.UNL.EDU
Subject: Re: Looking for a Dhegiha (and also maybe Dakota) term

 

Sky,

 

Kaw ?shkaN = act, deed, custom (Kaanze dictionary, 161)

 

Dave




David Kaufman, Ph.D.

Director, Kaw Nation Language Program

 

On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 8:01 AM, Campbell, Sky <sky at omtribe.org> wrote:

I am looking for a term that Dorsey has in his language slips which is:

 

w?-kh??

 

He conjugates this term but doesn't translate it.  He lists the Dhegiha equivalent as:

 

ushka?

 

And the Dakota equivalent as:

 

okha?

 

I haven't had any luck finding information on any of these terms.  Anyone have any ideas or can maybe point me in the right direction?

 

Sky Campbell

Language Director

Otoe-Missouria Tribe

(580) 723-4466, ext. 111 <tel:%28580%29%20723-4466%2C%20ext.%20111> 

sky at omtribe.org

 

-- Manage your subscription at http://listserv.unl.edu. listserv.unl.edu lists do not accept incoming email from Yahoo.com, AOL.com or Dropbox.com due to thier DMARC policies. 

 

-- Manage your subscription at http://listserv.unl.edu. listserv.unl.edu lists do not accept incoming email from Yahoo.com, AOL.com or Dropbox.com due to thier DMARC policies. 

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From jgoodtracks at gmail.com  Mon Oct  6 20:11:15 2014
From: jgoodtracks at gmail.com (Jimm G. GoodTracks)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2014 15:11:15 -0500
Subject: Looking for a Dhegiha (and also maybe Dakota) term
In-Reply-To: <002701cfe194$d57aadb0$80700910$@com>
Message-ID: <MON.6.OCT.2014.151115.0500.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

I sure wished that you had made a list of Dorsey's slips before you had added them to you data file, as for the longest time, I've thought of doing the same and adding to the IOM Dict.  It would have been so much more easily to do so from a separate list.  Now, I will be duplicating what you are in process of doing on my end.  Of course, from time to time, I've added some of his slips to a standing entry, but often too, I've simply looked up the entry, took note or compared, and only noted differences with the Dict entry.

Oh, well! Huhuhwa:

PS:  In the late afternoon today, I'll be going off line, and will remain so through Tuesday.  I should be back by Wednesday morn...  irakida ke (when you awake).   


From: Sky Campbell 
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2014 1:39 PM
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu 
Subject: Re: Looking for a Dhegiha (and also maybe Dakota) term


Yea, I'd thought of that too but wasn't sure if that phrase was meant to have that much emphasis.  Perhaps it is! :)  I've been going through Dorsey's slips one by one and adding them to my database and I'm hoping I'll come across this again that might help give us more context.

 

Sky

 

From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] On Behalf Of Jimm G. GoodTracks
Sent: Friday, October 3, 2014 2:33 PM
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
Subject: Re: Looking for a Dhegiha (and also maybe Dakota) term

 

I would tend to think that the "wokhu" (woxu) may be "wexa" (beyond, more than, exceed) or a derivative of it.

 

From: Campbell, Sky 

Sent: Friday, October 03, 2014 11:18 AM

To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu 

Subject: Re: Looking for a Dhegiha (and also maybe Dakota) term

 

Yea, I saw the "act, deed, custom" from the online Omaha-Ponca dictionary at unl.edu but that doesn't seem to fit.  The whole idea of custom and that sort of thing has me on our usual term of "wosg?" which isn't what I'm after.  I'm going to show two terms that mean roughly the same thing (according to Dorsey) but the second one has the extra term that I'm after:

 

i-pra-shku-nye - not to be satisfied with what he has; to desire more

 

i-pra-shku-nye-thke wo-khu - to desire more

 

So we have "to desire more" expressed twice but I'm trying to figure out what is going on with the extra stuff in the second one.  The entry I asked about earlier came from when I tried to look up "wo-khu" in Dorsey's information where he gave the nasal, accent, etc.  So if we have the "ibra skunyi" talking about not being satisfied or desiring more, then the extra -thge would suggest "like/alike/so/be like/be so/in like manner/equal/somewhat/not very/thus/a little" (that's a lot, I know but as of now that is the whole of my contexts for that term (full term "ithge")).  Up to that point I'm sort of ok but I'm not understanding what is going on with the "wo-khu" after that.  Could we actually be talking about "wosg?" somehow here in the way of custom/habits and this is a term that describes something like "not satisfied - in that way - habitually" (he always wants more/he is never satisfied)?  Only problem is I've never seen a "wo-khu" form of "wosg?" before but I guess it is possible considering other "s" to "th" to "x" shifts that I've seen but I am a bit skeptical.

 

Sky Campbell

Language Director

Otoe-Missouria Tribe

(580) 723-4466, ext. 111

sky at omtribe.org

 

From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] On Behalf Of Rory Larson
Sent: Friday, October 03, 2014 10:08 AM
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
Subject: Re: Looking for a Dhegiha (and also maybe Dakota) term

 

In Omaha, ??ka? means ?activity? or type of work, as in n?-u?ka?, ?men?s work or customs?, vs. wa??-u?ka?, ?women?s work or customs?.  It would be about the same as in Kaw.  Underlyingly, it is composed of three elements:

 

            wa- (a generalizing nominalizer in this case)

            -o-  (a locative prefix meaning something like ?in?, that places the verb in environmental context)

            -?ka?  ?move?, ?stir?

 

I don?t think this Dhegiha word is actually related to either the mystery word w?-kh?? or the Dakota word okha?, though.  The equivalent Dakota word is ??ka?, ?motion? or ?movement?.  Dakota okh?? can mean ?room?, in the sense that there is room for something, or that it isn?t too crowded to fit somebody in.  Omaha has the word ukk??, which I have down as meaning ?space (an open space or place to put something)?, and which should be the equivalent of the Dakota word.

 

The problem here is the accent.  Since it comes on the second syllable in the Omaha and Dakota forms, it means that there is no initial underlying wa- in those words.  The mystery word with the leading w- and first-syllable accent presumably has a wa- there.  If the base word is in fact the same as the Dakota and Omaha word ?have room for?, I?m not sure what the wa- adds to it, or how it would be used in conjugated forms.

 

Actually though, the Dakota word doesn?t match the mystery word either, because it has /a?/ where the mystery word has /u?/.  Omaha wouldn?t make the distinction, but Dakotan and I believe IOM do.  So we should really be looking at a Dakotan word sounding like okh??, which I do find described cryptically for Teton with the single example of okh?? wa?te, ?gentle? or ?mild? as some kind of comparative element.  Perhaps some of the Lakhota linguists could help out here.

 

Best,

Rory

 

 

From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] On Behalf Of David Kaufman
Sent: Friday, October 03, 2014 8:36 AM
To: SIOUAN at LISTSERV.UNL.EDU
Subject: Re: Looking for a Dhegiha (and also maybe Dakota) term

 

Sky,

 

Kaw ?shkaN = act, deed, custom (Kaanze dictionary, 161)

 

Dave




David Kaufman, Ph.D.

Director, Kaw Nation Language Program

 

On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 8:01 AM, Campbell, Sky <sky at omtribe.org> wrote:

I am looking for a term that Dorsey has in his language slips which is:

 

w?-kh??

 

He conjugates this term but doesn't translate it.  He lists the Dhegiha equivalent as:

 

ushka?

 

And the Dakota equivalent as:

 

okha?

 

I haven't had any luck finding information on any of these terms.  Anyone have any ideas or can maybe point me in the right direction?

 

Sky Campbell

Language Director

Otoe-Missouria Tribe

(580) 723-4466, ext. 111

sky at omtribe.org

 

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From sky at LEGENDREADERS.COM  Tue Oct  7 03:51:31 2014
From: sky at LEGENDREADERS.COM (Sky Campbell)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2014 22:51:31 -0500
Subject: Looking for a Dhegiha (and also maybe Dakota) term
In-Reply-To: <C5E77B0198A749CF9D6BA6051C5471F1@JGDellLaptop>
Message-ID: <MON.6.OCT.2014.225131.0500.SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>

Don't worry...I'll be able to filter them in my database so only his terms show up :).

 

Sky

 

From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] On Behalf Of Jimm G. GoodTracks
Sent: Monday, October 6, 2014 3:11 PM
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
Subject: Re: Looking for a Dhegiha (and also maybe Dakota) term

 

I sure wished that you had made a list of Dorsey's slips before you had added them to you data file, as for the longest time, I've thought of doing the same and adding to the IOM Dict.  It would have been so much more easily to do so from a separate list.  Now, I will be duplicating what you are in process of doing on my end.  Of course, from time to time, I've added some of his slips to a standing entry, but often too, I've simply looked up the entry, took note or compared, and only noted differences with the Dict entry.

 

Oh, well! Huhuhwa:

 

PS:  In the late afternoon today, I'll be going off line, and will remain so through Tuesday.  I should be back by Wednesday morn...  irakida ke (when you awake).   

 

From: Sky Campbell <mailto:sky at LEGENDREADERS.COM>  

Sent: Monday, October 06, 2014 1:39 PM

To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu 

Subject: Re: Looking for a Dhegiha (and also maybe Dakota) term

 

Yea, I'd thought of that too but wasn't sure if that phrase was meant to have that much emphasis.  Perhaps it is! :)  I've been going through Dorsey's slips one by one and adding them to my database and I'm hoping I'll come across this again that might help give us more context.

 

Sky

 

From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] On Behalf Of Jimm G. GoodTracks
Sent: Friday, October 3, 2014 2:33 PM
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
Subject: Re: Looking for a Dhegiha (and also maybe Dakota) term

 

I would tend to think that the "wokhu" (woxu) may be "wexa" (beyond, more than, exceed) or a derivative of it.

 

From: Campbell, Sky <mailto:sky at OMTRIBE.ORG>  

Sent: Friday, October 03, 2014 11:18 AM

To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu 

Subject: Re: Looking for a Dhegiha (and also maybe Dakota) term

 

Yea, I saw the "act, deed, custom" from the online Omaha-Ponca dictionary at unl.edu but that doesn't seem to fit.  The whole idea of custom and that sort of thing has me on our usual term of "wosg?" which isn't what I'm after.  I'm going to show two terms that mean roughly the same thing (according to Dorsey) but the second one has the extra term that I'm after:

 

i-pra-shku-nye - not to be satisfied with what he has; to desire more

 

i-pra-shku-nye-thke wo-khu - to desire more

 

So we have "to desire more" expressed twice but I'm trying to figure out what is going on with the extra stuff in the second one.  The entry I asked about earlier came from when I tried to look up "wo-khu" in Dorsey's information where he gave the nasal, accent, etc.  So if we have the "ibra skunyi" talking about not being satisfied or desiring more, then the extra -thge would suggest "like/alike/so/be like/be so/in like manner/equal/somewhat/not very/thus/a little" (that's a lot, I know but as of now that is the whole of my contexts for that term (full term "ithge")).  Up to that point I'm sort of ok but I'm not understanding what is going on with the "wo-khu" after that.  Could we actually be talking about "wosg?" somehow here in the way of custom/habits and this is a term that describes something like "not satisfied - in that way - habitually" (he always wants more/he is never satisfied)?  Only problem is I've never seen a "wo-khu" form of "wosg?" before but I guess it is possible considering other "s" to "th" to "x" shifts that I've seen but I am a bit skeptical.

 

Sky Campbell

Language Director

Otoe-Missouria Tribe

(580) 723-4466, ext. 111

sky at omtribe.org

 

From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] On Behalf Of Rory Larson
Sent: Friday, October 03, 2014 10:08 AM
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
Subject: Re: Looking for a Dhegiha (and also maybe Dakota) term

 

In Omaha, ??ka? means ?activity? or type of work, as in n?-u?ka?, ?men?s work or customs?, vs. wa??-u?ka?, ?women?s work or customs?.  It would be about the same as in Kaw.  Underlyingly, it is composed of three elements:

 

            wa- (a generalizing nominalizer in this case)

            -o-  (a locative prefix meaning something like ?in?, that places the verb in environmental context)

            -?ka?  ?move?, ?stir?

 

I don?t think this Dhegiha word is actually related to either the mystery word w?-kh?? or the Dakota word okha?, though.  The equivalent Dakota word is ??ka?, ?motion? or ?movement?.  Dakota okh?? can mean ?room?, in the sense that there is room for something, or that it isn?t too crowded to fit somebody in.  Omaha has the word ukk??, which I have down as meaning ?space (an open space or place to put something)?, and which should be the equivalent of the Dakota word.

 

The problem here is the accent.  Since it comes on the second syllable in the Omaha and Dakota forms, it means that there is no initial underlying wa- in those words.  The mystery word with the leading w- and first-syllable accent presumably has a wa- there.  If the base word is in fact the same as the Dakota and Omaha word ?have room for?, I?m not sure what the wa- adds to it, or how it would be used in conjugated forms.

 

Actually though, the Dakota word doesn?t match the mystery word either, because it has /a?/ where the mystery word has /u?/.  Omaha wouldn?t make the distinction, but Dakotan and I believe IOM do.  So we should really be looking at a Dakotan word sounding like okh??, which I do find described cryptically for Teton with the single example of okh?? wa?te, ?gentle? or ?mild? as some kind of comparative element.  Perhaps some of the Lakhota linguists could help out here.

 

Best,

Rory

 

 

From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] On Behalf Of David Kaufman
Sent: Friday, October 03, 2014 8:36 AM
To: SIOUAN at LISTSERV.UNL.EDU
Subject: Re: Looking for a Dhegiha (and also maybe Dakota) term

 

Sky,

 

Kaw ?shkaN = act, deed, custom (Kaanze dictionary, 161)

 

Dave




David Kaufman, Ph.D.

Director, Kaw Nation Language Program

 

On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 8:01 AM, Campbell, Sky <sky at omtribe.org> wrote:

I am looking for a term that Dorsey has in his language slips which is:

 

w?-kh??

 

He conjugates this term but doesn't translate it.  He lists the Dhegiha equivalent as:

 

ushka?

 

And the Dakota equivalent as:

 

okha?

 

I haven't had any luck finding information on any of these terms.  Anyone have any ideas or can maybe point me in the right direction?

 

Sky Campbell

Language Director

Otoe-Missouria Tribe

(580) 723-4466, ext. 111 <tel:%28580%29%20723-4466%2C%20ext.%20111> 

sky at omtribe.org

 

-- Manage your subscription at http://listserv.unl.edu. listserv.unl.edu lists do not accept incoming email from Yahoo.com, AOL.com or Dropbox.com due to thier DMARC policies. 

 

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