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<DIV><FONT size=2><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT face=Arial lang=0
FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><SPAN class=880150720-13082003><FONT color=#0000ff
face="Ss Do SILDoulosL">[RLR: ] I don't have a lot to add to the
voluminous correspondence on ASB 'cat' except to mention that the way you
*call* your cat in a whole string of European colonial (and other) languages
is "pis, pis, pis" or "pus, pus, pus". This may or may not have anything
to do with the ASB word, but I'm inclined to agree with David that English
is the probable source. </FONT></SPAN><BR><SPAN
class=880150720-13082003><FONT color=#0000ff
face="Ss Do SILDoulosL"> </FONT></SPAN><BR><SPAN
class=880150720-13082003><FONT color=#0000ff
face="Ss Do SILDoulosL">> </FONT></SPAN>I can barely decide where to
begin with a discussion of the problems with your proposal.<BR><SPAN
class=880150720-13082003><FONT color=#0000ff
face="Ss Do SILDoulosL">> </FONT></SPAN>MI
wiikwee-<BR><SPAN class=880150720-13082003><FONT color=#0000ff
face="Ss Do SILDoulosL">> </FONT></SPAN>PSI
*-truN (one might have plumped for *-kwuN, too)<BR><FONT
color=#0000ff><FONT face="Ss Do SILDoulosL"><SPAN
class=880150720-13082003></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT face=Arial lang=0
FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT face="Ss Do SILDoulosL"><SPAN
class=880150720-13082003>[RLR: ] I don't know that I'd even consider this
etymon reconstructible in Proto-Siouan. It *may* be a very early loan (I
don't recall its occurring in Mandan or Missouri River languages, so not PSi),
but it may just as well have been borrowed multiple times from without and
within Siouan. As John quite rightly points out, the cluster is not
acceptable in the vast majority of Siouan phonologies. /tr/ just isn't
possible, thus the systematic dissimilations.
</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT face=Arial lang=0
FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT face="Ss Do SILDoulosL"><SPAN
class=880150720-13082003></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT face=Arial lang=0
FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT face="Ss Do SILDoulosL"><SPAN
class=880150720-13082003>This means that the existence of the critter terms in
-tirVN- in Iroquoian (working from Marianne's "Extending the rafters"
paper, as I recall), where they are reconstructible, became interesting and
pertinent. Likewise the Yuchi term in -tyVN- (given the y/r relationship
within Siouan). I didn't see any claim of cognacy in John's
posting. I think that what we assume is that this root is a "widespread
form" that has been borrowed and reborrowed in the eastern part of the
continent. All Siouanists would want to say, I expect, is that the word
didn't likely originate with Siouan because of its phonology.
</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT face=Arial lang=0
FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT face="Ss Do SILDoulosL"><SPAN
class=880150720-13082003></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT face=Arial lang=0
FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT face="Ss Do SILDoulosL"><SPAN
class=880150720-13082003>This is not the only animal term that has diffused
widely. Mary Haas discussed the 'bison' term and Michael Nichols has
collected a large group of such Wanderwoerter over the years, especially from
the West. </SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT face=Arial lang=0
FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT face="Ss Do SILDoulosL"><SPAN
class=880150720-13082003> </SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT face=Arial lang=0
FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><FONT size=2><SPAN class=880150720-13082003><FONT
color=#0000ff face="Ss Do SILDoulosL">> </FONT></SPAN>B. You are
proposing to explain the initial w- in the Miami form from a PreDakotan
initial *w- from one or another of several sources, but the *w- is not even
reconstructable for the PreDakotan form.</FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT face=Arial lang=0
FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><FONT size=2></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT face=Arial lang=0
FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><SPAN class=880150720-13082003>It doesn't need to be.
*Wi- is reconstructible for a host of animal terms in PSi or Proto-Mississippi
Valley Siouan -- far more than is possible by coincidence. If it's
reconstructible at a higher node than pre-Dakotan, it can be inferred for that
language unless there's evidence it was lost at an earlier node too. But
we're not really talking about just Dakotan here; this term is found all over
Mississippi Valley Siouan and also in Biloxi.</SPAN><BR><BR><SPAN
class=880150720-13082003><FONT color=#0000ff
face="Ss Do SILDoulosL">> </FONT></SPAN>C. You are proposing that
Proto-Siouan *-truN ' panther, mountain lion' is cognate with or in some other
way related to Proto-Iroquoian *ti:l-i/oN 'skunk' (see cognates in previous
email), despite the difference in meanings and the problem of where the vowel
separating the consonants came from in Iroquoian or went to in
Siouan.<BR><BR><SPAN class=880150720-13082003><FONT color=#0000ff
face="Ss Do SILDoulosL">> </FONT></SPAN>D. You are proposing that
Proto-Siouan *-truN 'panther, mountain lion' is cognate with a purposed Yuchi
form atyuNne 'wildcat'. No such form exists! (Please check your sources
before citing data from other languages, even in emails; otherwise, you run
the risk, as here (and with the gloss for the Mohawk word ('skunk', not
'panther or mountain lion'), of creating new or perpetuating old ghost forms.)
A check of Bill Ballard's <SPAN class=880150720-13082003>. .
.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT face=Arial lang=0
FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><FONT size=2></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Ss Do SILDoulosL" size=2><SPAN class=880150720-13082003>That
is *Lew* Ballard. I tried "Bill" with him when I first met him and got
corrected. Nowadays he accepts "William" but not
Bill.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT face=Arial lang=0
FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><FONT size=2></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT lang=0 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><FONT size=2><FONT face=Arial><SPAN
class=880150720-13082003>> . . . </SPAN>English-Yuchi lexicon shows that
the Yuchi word for 'wildcat' is $athy@N ($ = s hachek, @N = nasal open o). He
also cites a form from Gunther Wagner, cat' an' e ($at?ane) which is not the
same word. $athy@N also means 'raccoon'. I have seen no evidence (other
cognate sets) suggesting that Proto-Siouan *tr corresponds to either Yuchi thy
or t?, and there is no explanation for the initial $a- or final -@N or -ane in
Yuchi.<BR><BR></FONT><FONT face="Ss Do SILDoulosL"><SPAN
class=880150720-13082003>I've seen no claim of cognacy for this term.
John is citing it from a DOS version of the Comparative Siouan Dict. that
didn't have the fonts to reproduce Ballard's rounded V preceding the
nasal. That is corrected in Windows fonts. Any central or back
vowel borrowed into Siouan with a following N will be adapted as uN or
aN. Whether it was schwa, A, open O, close O or U in the source language
doesn't matter. The semantics remain difficult, but the result in Siouan
is uniform. We've seen from the Iroquoian discussion that the semantic
questions lie there (where the form appears to be reconstructible). This
may suggest a single borrowing into Siouan at a considerably earlier time, but
it's very hard to say.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT lang=0 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><FONT size=2><FONT
face="Ss Do SILDoulosL"><SPAN
class=880150720-13082003></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT lang=0 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><FONT size=2><FONT
face="Ss Do SILDoulosL"><SPAN
class=880150720-13082003>Bob</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></BODY></HTML>