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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The modern day word for "1000" in Ponca is ku'ge.
Ku'ge is also the word for "trunk" or "box". I have had several Ponca elders
tell me that ku'ge for "1000" derived from the time treaty payments arrived as
1000 gold coins in a box. Interestingly, I once had an elderly Osage woman tell
me that "ku'ge" for "trunk" derived from the verb "k'u" - to give away.....that
they used to give away when the trunks of money arrived. Perhaps they are
related?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Also, that we should find similar etymologies for
"1000" amidst surrounding tribes doesn't surprise me. I am reminded of the
Ponca word for "25 cents". The modern day word for "25 cents" is mi'ka tha'wa or
mi'ka itha'wa. This is said to be abbreviated from "mi'ka ha itha'wa" - to count
a raccoon hide, or what a raccoon hide is worth. If I am not mistaken, do we not
find similar etymology for "25 cents" among other Siouan languages?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Tom Leonard</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=okibjonathan@yahoo.com href="mailto:okibjonathan@yahoo.com">Jonathan
Holmes</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=siouan@lists.colorado.edu
href="mailto:siouan@lists.colorado.edu">siouan@lists.colorado.edu</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, January 18, 2006 12:23
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: O/P term for one
thousand</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV id=RTEContent><BR><BR><B><I>Koontz John E <<A
href="mailto:John.Koontz@colorado.edu">John.Koontz@colorado.edu</A>></I></B>
wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">
<DIV>...I noticed recently a remark in Dorsey's paper on dwellings, tools,
etc.,<BR>that the Omaha dealt with arrows in standardized sets - there is
even a<BR>word for such a set - and not as individual artifacts. Since sets
were<BR>usually of ten arrows each, it seems on that basis that the urge to
count<BR>by tens may go back at least as far as the introduction of the bow.
On<BR>the other hand, perhaps throwing spears were also handled in sets,
though<BR>maybe smaller ones. Another instance of systematized counting
might be the<BR>use of bundles of sticks to represent honors. Men are
reported to have<BR>recounted their honors by working through their sets of
sticks. The<BR>handgame also involves a system of formal counters, though
the modern form<BR>is fairly recent and I don't know if the counters are
earlier.<BR><BR>Rory - what do you think about the use of kku'ge 'box' for
'thousand'?<BR>Does this imply that 1000 is a new concept, or is it a new
word for an old<BR>concept? How widespread is 'box' in this sense? I just
noticed in the<BR>texts that kku'ge often appears glossed 'box' when a
numerical<BR>interpretation is clearly meant.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>John,</DIV>
<DIV>If I may offer...in Dr. James H. Howard's work titled "The Ponca
Tribe" (BAE Bulletin 195) he states on page 73,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><EM>"The term for one thousand is derived from the fact that the money
which the Ponca received for treaty payments came in boxes which contained
$1,000 each."</EM> <BR><BR>Hope it helps,</DIV>
<DIV>Jonathan</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></DIV><BR><BR>
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