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<p><tt>>> I'm not as familiar as you and Bob are with the total distribution of these<br>
>> sets over Siouan. Could you suggest some actual problems that would<br>
>> challenge a nasally-released stop interpretation for *W and *R?<br>
<br>
> Distributionally, I don't think nasally release stops are particularly<br>
> common compared to prensalized stops. Bob's example of forms like /ob/<br>
> common compared to prensalized stops. Bob's example of forms like /ob/ as<br>
> [obm] and, hypothetically /el/ as [edn], are more common, but notice that<br>
> these follow oral vowels, whereas *R and *W precede vowels, generally oral<br>
> ones. In fact, with only a very few exceptions *R and *W are strictly<br>
> word initial.<br>
</tt><br>
<tt>Alright, that sets up three considerations:</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>1. Nasally released stops are relatively rare (world-wide?);</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>2. Almost all *W and *R are word initial;</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>3. The vowel following *W or *R is usually oral.</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>I don't think the first is a problem. We're dealing with a specific case, not a probability. World-wide, clicks are rare too, but that doesn't deter their presence in Khoi-San.</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>Considerations 2 and 3 apply to any possible reconstruction. It's probably easiest to suppose that after *W and *R were established in the proto-language, all word interior cases and all cases preceding a nasal vowel merged with other phonemes, perhaps *w and *r or *p and *t.</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>Being rare and distinctive would be an advantage to preserving *W and *R and keeping them from merging sporadically with other sets. If, on the other hand, they were pre-nasalized stops, then what would consistently distinguish them in their reflex pattern from all the epenthetically pre-nasalized interior stops following nasal vowels? If the Dhegihan positional *aWa' was actualized as *ampa' or *amba', why wouldn't the interior consonant in 'day', *aN'pa or *aN'ba, have developed as *a'Wa ?</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>Consideration 3 is one that might raise a problem for the nasally released stop model. If the stop is released nasally, wouldn't we expect the following vowel to be more likely nasal than oral?</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>My defense here would be that a nasally released stop is about the nasal click, not the nasal sonority. In a couple of previous postings, I suggested that the stop and the nasal click itself may have been voiceless, with the nasal opening quickly closed again before the main voicing of the following vowel. If the following vowel were nasal, however, nasality would have extended from the click to the end of the vowel. Voicing would have followed nasality back to its beginning and into the stop, leaving the stop itself as a rump prefix to what is now primarily a nasal consonant. The rump is dropped, and we are left with m or n, which is presumably construed as a nasal allomorph of *w or *r. Thus, e.g.:</tt><br>
<br>
<tt> Nasal *NN<br>
Oral TTTTTaaaaaa<br>
Laryngeal VVVVVV<br>
</tt><br>
<tt>A nasally released stop before an oral vowel. The nasal opening is brief, and the nasal consonant is unvoiced. The sequence is phonologically unique, and fairly stable.</tt><br>
<br>
<tt> Nasal *NNNNNNN<br>
Oral TTTTTaaaaaa<br>
Laryngeal VVVVVV<br>
</tt><br>
<tt>A nasally released stop before a nasal vowel. Nasalization is prolonged, and mostly in synch with vocalization.</tt><br>
<br>
<tt> Nasal *NNNNNNN<br>
Oral TTTTTaaaaaa<br>
Laryngeal VVVVVVVV</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>Vocalization extends back to support the entire nasal sequence. Now we have a clear n sound preceded by a stop that has no purpose but to set up a nasal click before the n that is replacing it in phonological prominence.</tt><br>
<br>
<tt> Nasal *NNNNNNN<br>
Oral TTTaaaaaa<br>
Laryngeal VVVVVVVV</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>The duration of the stop erodes to a bare nubbin to support the click, allowing the word to be spoken more quickly.</tt><br>
<br>
<tt> Nasal NNNNNNNN<br>
Oral TTaaaaaa<br>
Laryngeal VVVVVVVV</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>The stop and the click finally disappear. We are left with a bare n (or nasalized *r).</tt><br>
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<tt>Hence, it may be that placing a nasal vowel after a nasally released stop will tend to destroy the stop and replace it with the corresponding nasal consonant. You might try pronouncing these sequences to test them. My sense is that a nasally released consonant before an oral vowel is about as distinctive and stable as a glottalized stop, but that if you try it before a nasal vowel the stop will tend to be replaced by the corresponding nasal consonant. If this is correct, then I think that that rule might account for why *W and *R are seldom followed by nasal vowels.</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>Rory</tt><br>
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