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<br><div><div>On 14/01/2008, at 12:38 PM, Clive Bloomfield wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"> <br><div><div>On 13/01/2008, at 2:40 PM, Clive Bloomfield wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Georgia" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 13px;"><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13px/normal Georgia; min-height: 15px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; "><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><br></div></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face="Georgia" size="4" style="font: 13.0px Georgia">Emil AFH Text :</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face="Georgia" size="4" style="font: 13.0px Georgia">Thiwahe kin lel April 7th, 1506, ehanl <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">akhe</font> thokata akichita sh'akin kta wan thonpi. He Don Juan de Jassu na Doña Maria de Azpilcueta chincapi ca wichicisakpe hakakta <span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-text-stroke-width: -1px; ">thaowachekiyepi el miniakashtanpi na Francis eya chasthonpi.</span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13px/normal Georgia; min-height: 15px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face="Georgia" size="4" style="font: 13.0px Georgia">Wildenhues :</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face="Georgia" size="4" style="font: 13.0px Georgia">"Here on April 7th, 1506, another great knight of the future was born. He was the sixth and last child of Don Juan de Jassu and Doña Maria de Azpilcueta, and at his</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face="Georgia" size="4" style="font: 13.0px Georgia">baptism in the parish church received the name of Francis."</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">A literal version :</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13px/normal Georgia; min-height: 15px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; "><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Georgia" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 13px;"><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Georgia; font-size: 13px; ">"Into this family, on April 7th, 1506, was born one who was to prove again & again, in future years, a mighty soldier. This (babe), the son of Don Juan de Jassu and</span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face="Georgia" size="4" style="font: normal normal normal 13px/normal Georgia; ">Donna Maria de Azpilcueta, as their sixth-born youngest offspring, was baptized in their (family) chapel, and christened "Francisco/Francis." (lit. "Francis saying</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face="Georgia" size="4" style="font: normal normal normal 13px/normal Georgia; ">they-named-him."</font></div></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">[NOTES : Seems to be nothing especially noteworthy here.]</div></span></font></div></blockquote><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>I take this back! Now, as we all know, the word <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">akhe'</font> means "<font class="Apple-style-span" color="#0000FF">again; a second time</font>" <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF00FF">[B-Md., s.v.]</font> "<font class="Apple-style-span" color="#0000FF">again; repeated; a second time</font>" <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF00FF">[Riggs, DakEngD, s.v.]</font>. </div><div>In any case, one might perhaps have expected <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">akhe'shnashna (or s'a maybe)</font> to correspond my translation "again & again" there. </div><div>Clearly, in this context, Xavier has only just entered this Vale of Tears, so how COULD <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">akhe'</font> there mean "again/a second time"?</div><div>Doesn't <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">akhe'</font> (especially followed immediately by thoka'ta, & in a prospective KTA clause) mean there, something more like : "in time <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">yet to come</font>/in subsequent years"?</div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>Accordingly, I would retranslate thus :</div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>"<font class="Apple-style-span" color="#0000FF">Into this family, on Apr.7, 1506, was born one who was destined/bound to become</font>, <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">in time/years to come</font>, <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#0000FF">to be a mighty soldier.</font>"</div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>Correct?</div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div></blockquote><br><blockquote type="cite"><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-text-stroke-width: -1; "></span></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div style="font-size: 13px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-text-stroke-width: -1; "><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000">The penny has just dropped! akhe' there goes with waN 'one' - the point being that this babe was the latest 'edition' in a long line of martial heroes (but with a certain difference, as we find out later.)</font></span></div></blockquote><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000" style="font-size: 13px; ">The words proximity to thoka'ta & the 'yet to be/come' sense of eha'ke' put me off the scent, I guess.</font></div><div style="font-size: 13px; "><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style="font-size: 13px; ">Now, I translate :</div><div style="font-size: 13px; "><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style="font-size: 13px; ">"<font class="Apple-style-span" color="#0000FF">Into this family....was born </font><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">YET ANOTHER</font><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#0000FF"> who was destined to become, in future time, a mighty soldier ('captain' sounds nice)</font>"<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Georgia; "></span></div><div style="font-size: 13px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Georgia"><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></font></div><div style="font-size: 13px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Georgia; ">Regards,<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: -1; "></span></span></div><div style="font-size: 14px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Georgia; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-text-stroke-width: -1px; font-size: 13px; ">Clive Bloomfield</span></span></div><div><blockquote type="cite"><div><br></div></blockquote></div></body></html>