<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><div>Apologies to any Greek scholars here for that unaspirated masculine sing. definite article & for those other two initial vowels which ought to have been aspirated : </div><div>The diacritics on my Polytonic Greek font are not only vanishingly microscopic, and thus difficult to distinguish, (even when magnified), but the Greek 'spiritus asper' ( 'he daseia prosoidia') or so called "rough breathing" appears to have been completely omitted by the makers. Nevertheless, I have indicated the aspirates in my transliterations.</div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>Just for the record.</div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>Clive.</div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>On 26/01/2008, at 11:06 AM, Clive Bloomfield wrote: </div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div><div style="font-size: 13px; ">The Hellenistic <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#0000FF">Greek</font> version of the OT, the <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#0000FF">Septuagint (LXX)</font>, at Genesis 1:21, reads : </div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px; ">Καὶ ἐποίησεν <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF00FF">ὀ</font> Θεὸς </span><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000" style="font-size: 18px; ">τὰ κήτη τὰ μεγάλα...</font> </div></div></blockquote><br><blockquote type="cite"><div><div>[<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px; ">Kai epoiesen <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF00FF" style="font-size: 16px; "><b>h</b></font>o Theos </span><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000" style="font-size: 14px; ">ta kete ta megala</font>..."<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 13px; ">And God created the great sea-monsters/whales..."</span>] , </div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style="font-size: 13px; "><br></div><div style="font-size: 13px; "><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style="font-size: 13px; ">Finally, in the other Biblical passage for which I have the Dakota translation, Matthew 12:40, the following are original texts for comparison :</div><div style="font-size: 13px; "><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style="font-size: 13px; ">"Anpetu yamni qa hanyetu yamni hehanyan Jonas <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">hogan tanka</font> tezi kin ohna un qon he iyecen..."</div><div style="font-size: 13px; "><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style="font-size: 13px; ">"For as Jonah was three days & three nights in the <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">whale</font>'s belly..." [KJV, 1611];</div><div style="font-size: 13px; "><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style="font-size: 13px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: -1; "><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF00FF" style="font-size: 16px; ">ὦ</font><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 16px; ">σπερ γὰρ ἦν Ἰωνᾶς ἐν τῇ κοιλίᾳ τοῦ </span><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000" style="font-size: 16px; ">κήτους</font><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 16px; "> τρεῖς </span><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF00FF" style="font-size: 16px; ">ἠ</font><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 16px; ">μέρας καὶ τρεῖς νύκτας</span>...</span></div></div></blockquote><br><blockquote type="cite"><div><div style="font-size: 13px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: -1; ">.[<font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF00FF" style="font-size: 16px; "><b>h</b></font>osper gar en Ionas en tei koiliai tou <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">ketous</font> treis <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF00FF" style="font-size: 16px; "><b>h</b></font>emeras kai treis nyktas...[Above transliterated];</span></div></div></blockquote> <br><blockquote type="cite"><div><div style="font-size: 13px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: -1; "> [Greek NT, echoing the exact words used in the LXX Book of Jonas at 2:1; 2:2 ];</span></div><div style="font-size: 13px; "><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style="font-size: 13px; "> </div><div style="font-size: 13px; "><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style="font-size: 13px; "><br></div><div style="font-size: 13px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: -1; ">.</span></div><div style="font-size: 13px; "><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style="font-size: 13px; "> </div><div style="font-size: 13px; "><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style="font-size: 13px; "><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div> </div><div><br></div><div style="font-size: 10px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;"><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></span></font></div><div style="font-size: 10px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;"><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></span></font></div><div><div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>On 25/01/2008, at 5:16 AM, Alfred W. Tüting wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite">(for some reason, this didn't get through)<br><div apple-content-edited="true"> <span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><br></div><div><div>Let me add this:</div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>this is the original text that actually speaks of a "huge fish" or "dag gadol" <span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 4px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 4px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Times" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px; ">דָּג גָּדוֹל</span></font></span></div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: David; font-size: 32px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 4px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 4px; ">וַיְמַן יְהוָה <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0909">דָּג גָּדוֹל</font>, לִבְלֹעַ אֶת-יוֹנָה</span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 4px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 4px; ">And the LORD prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah</span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 4px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 4px; "><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 4px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 4px; ">Alfred</span></div><br><div><div>Am 24.01.2008 um 17:06 schrieb Alfred W. Tüting:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div style="text-align: left; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 40px/normal 'Arial Hebrew'; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; ">Consulting my bookshelf, here are my two cents:</span></div><div style="text-align: left; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 40px/normal 'Arial Hebrew'; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; ">"whale" in modern Ivrith still is "lifyathan" (lamed - vav - yud - thet - nun) </span></div><div style="text-align: left; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 40px/normal 'Arial Hebrew'; ">לויתן</div><div style="text-align: left; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 40px/normal 'Arial Hebrew'; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Helvetica" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px; ">Searching my dictionary for Biblical Hebrew for it yielded the very same word (same, yet vocalized, spelling), translated by "Riesentier Leviathan, Schlange, Krokodil".</span></font></div><div style="text-align: left; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 40px/normal 'Arial Hebrew'; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Helvetica" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px; "><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></span></font></div><div style="text-align: left; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 40px/normal 'Arial Hebrew'; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Helvetica" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px; ">I'll be trying to retrieve the Hebrew original of that story telling of Jona in the whale/fish.</span></font></div><div style="text-align: left; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 40px/normal 'Arial Hebrew'; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Helvetica" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px; "><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></span></font></div><div style="text-align: left; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 40px/normal 'Arial Hebrew'; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Helvetica" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px; ">Alfred </span></font></div><div style="text-align: left; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 40px/normal 'Arial Hebrew'; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Helvetica" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px; "><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></span></font></div><div style="text-align: left; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 40px/normal 'Arial Hebrew'; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Helvetica" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px; "><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></span></font></div><div><div>Am 24.01.2008 um 05:50 schrieb Rankin, Robert L:</div><blockquote type="cite">Not being well versed in matters theological, I may be wrong, but I think 'great fish' more closely mirrors the original Hebrew text. I'll have to check into the education of the translator to see if this is an accident or a superior translation.<br><br>Bob<br><br>________________________________<br><br><blockquote type="cite">As a matter of interest, in the OT story of Jonas & the Whale, Buechel's Bible History Stories (1924) merely uses (p.127) : "HOGAN TANKA" [= big fish] for the famous 'whale'.<br></blockquote><br><span><winmail.dat></span></blockquote></div><br><div apple-content-edited="true"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="BiauKai" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px; ">____________________</span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="BiauKai" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px; "><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="BiauKai" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px; ">狄雨亭 (奧龍)</span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="BiauKai" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px; ">宋詩家<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="BiauKai" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px; ">選集</span></font><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: BiauKai; font-size: 18px; "> - ❮蝶夢痕❯</span></span></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="BiauKai" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px; "><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></span></font></div></div><div><a href="http://www.fa-kuan.muc.de/">www.fa-kuan.muc.de</a></div></div></div></span></div></div></blockquote></div><div apple-content-edited="true"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><br></div><div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div></div></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"> </div><br></blockquote></div><br></div></div></blockquote></div><br></body></html>