<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><br><div><div>Am 26.01.2008 um 01:06 schrieb Clive Bloomfield:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "> <div>(...)<span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-text-stroke-width: -1; "> </span></div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>'Hecen Wakantanka <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">hog^an </font><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#0000FF">tankinkinyan</font> oicah^ye... "So God created <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#0000FF">great</font> <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">fishes</font>..."</div><div><div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>Now, our member Alfred is the Hebrew scholar par-excellence amongst us, but by his leave & subject to his correction, I will first cite the Hebrew OT. Here goes :</div><div>The text of Hebrew Bible for <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#0000FF">GEN 1:21</font> reads : <span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 32px; "> <span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 23px; ">וַיִּבְרָ֣א אֱלֹהִ֔ים אֶת־<font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">הַתַּנִּינִ֖ם </font><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#0000FF">הַגְּדֹלִ֑ים</font></span></span></div><div style="font-size: 10px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="7" style="font-size: 17px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; "></span></font></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>Yes, my good old dictionary of Biblical Hebrew lists the word <font class="Apple-style-span" size="7"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 25px;"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF130D">תן</font></span></font> tha:n also (as referred to by you, below) giving it as "Wüstentier, Schakal" respectively. It is noted there that the word exists in plural form only. (BTW, it's pretty self-evident that this word designating that "monstrous" animal of the desert also is part of the compound livya-tha:n !).</div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>In modern Hebrew <font class="Apple-style-span" size="6"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 24px;"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0C15">תנין</font></span></font> sg. <font class="Apple-style-span" size="6"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 24px;">תנינם <span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px; ">pl. is the designation for crocodile (Krokodil), but snake (Schlange) in bibl. sense.</span></span></font></div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><div><div style="font-size: 10px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="7" style="font-size: 17px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; ">in which the words used for the object of the verb : (ha)<font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">tanni:nim</font> <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#0000FF">(ha)gedoli:m</font> '<font class="Apple-style-span" color="#0000FF">the great</font> <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">dragons</font>/<font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">sea-monsters</font>' were rendered : </span></font></div><div style="font-size: 10px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;"><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></span></font></div><div style="font-size: 10px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="7" style="font-size: 17px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; "> "And God created <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#0000FF">great</font><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000"> whales</font>.." (King James Version 1611), </span></span></font></div><div style="font-size: 10px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;"><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></span></font></div><div style="font-size: 10px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="7" style="font-size: 17px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; ">"And God created <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">the </font><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#0000FF">great</font><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000"> whales</font>..."[Douai Rheims (-R.Catholic tr. NT 1582; OT 1609) ] are<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Verdana; "> : (...)</span></span></span></font></div></div></div></div></blockquote><br><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>Okay, great job retrieving this, yet, back to our initial point, wasn't it just to prove that the original Biblical story of Jonah in the "whale" was translated correctly into Laḱota by using the word hoġaŋ ṫaŋka? That this term had not just been a circumscriptional stopgap (based on the translator's not knowing it better or the deficiency of the Laḱota language lacking more adequate a term for that "sea monster")?</div><div>BTW, I totally do share your view on Father Eugen, in special, and the calibre of Jesuits, in general. ;-)</div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>My personal conclusion drawn out of this research is that the biblical scribes (etc.) maybe did know what a whale was, yet that they obviously (not unlike oyate - who had not even a chance to know the beast!) didn't have a word ready to name it, so they attributed the monster with the names they had for desert beasts etc.. </div><div>Actually, the scribe of our Jonah story didn't use one of these handy words, conservatively speaking only of a "huge fish". IMVHO, he didn't even want to tell us that "the huge fish" actually was a whale (this constriction in the sense of specification being the work of "successors" in later times).</div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>Thanks a lot for your - as ever - most thoroughly reseached contribution, misun, he un lila ṗilamayaye.</div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>Alfred le miye lo. </div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><div><div style="font-size: 10px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="7" style="font-size: 17px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Verdana; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: -1; ">That interesting word <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">tanniynim</font>/<font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">tanni:nim</font> (Pl.)<<font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">tanniyn</font>/<font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">tanni:n</font> (with an 'erroneous' by-form tanni:m)[cf. Modern Written Arabic <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">tinniyn</font>/<font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">tinni:n</font>; Pl. <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">tana:ni:n</font>; - which, as Bruce will know, signifies : "<font class="Apple-style-span" color="#996633">sea monster; Draco (astron.); waterspout (meteor.)</font> [Arab.-Engl.Dict.. Hans Wehr, ed. J.M.Cowan, NY, 1976]; also occurs in Syriac & Ethiopic). </span></span></span></span></font></div><div style="font-size: 10px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="3">This word is said by Gesenius' Hebrew-Engl. Lexicon of O.T. (ed. & rev. by Brown, Briggs & Driver, Clarendon Pr, Oxf.,1951) to be a loan-word from Aramaic <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">tanniyna'</font>, and appears to have had a somewhat indeterminate meaning </font></div><div style="font-size: 10px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="3">(much like that other Hebrew word <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">leviathan</font>/<font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">livya:tha:n</font>, and the Ancient Greek/Latin <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">cetos</font><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000">/</font><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">cetus</font> ) :</font></div><div style="font-size: 10px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="3"><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></font></div><div style="font-size: 10px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="3">"<font class="Apple-style-span" color="#996633">serpent (venomous) </font><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000">[Dt 32:33]</font><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#996633">; dragon (as devourer)</font><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000">[Jer 51:24]</font><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#996633">; sea- (or river-) monster </font>[Gn 1:21]." </font></div><div style="font-size: 10px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="3"><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></font></div><div style="font-size: 10px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="3">At Psalms 74:13, the same word is even used, figuratively, of the Egyptian oppressors, and is rendered in the KJV as '<font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">dragons</font>', while at Isaiah 51:9, it is used of the mythological personification of Chaos 'Rahab/Rahav', and once again translated by the King James version as ' <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">the dragon</font>',</font></div><div style="font-size: 10px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="3"><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></font></div><div style="font-size: 10px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;"><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></span></font></div><div style="font-size: 10px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="3">Another Hebrew-Engl. lexicon (Samuel Bagster & sons, 1911) glosses the word thus :</font></div><div style="font-size: 10px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="3"><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></font></div><div style="font-size: 10px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="3">"1) <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#996633">a serpent</font>; 2) <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#996633">any large marine animal</font>; 3) <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#996633">a crocodile</font>."</font></div><div style="font-size: 10px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="3"><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></font></div><div style="font-size: 10px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="3">(Incidentally, there was another word : <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">tan</font>/<font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">ta:n</font> with whose Pl. forms <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">tanni:m</font>/<font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">tanni:n</font> our word just discussed appears to have been sometimes conflated. Its meaning appears to have been '<font class="Apple-style-span" color="#996633">howling thing; jackal; wolf; other wild animals of the desert; "precise meaning unknown"</font>[Op.cit., s.v.] '.)</font></div><div style="font-size: 10px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;"><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></span></font></div><div style="font-size: 10px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="3">[The Gesenius Hebr. Lexicon also gives a rare Arabic cognate <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">ti:na:n(un)</font>, (which I am unable to locate in Wehr). Perhaps it was an ancient word?? </font></div><div style="font-size: 10px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="3">Gesenius glosses <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">tan/ta:n</font> evocatively as "<font class="Apple-style-span" color="#996633">jackal, howling mournfully in waste places</font>", (Op.Cit., s.v.)]</font></div><div style="font-size: 10px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="3"><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></font></div><div style="font-size: 10px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;"><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></span></font></div><div style="font-size: 10px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="3">Yet another respected standard dictionary of Biblical Hebrew (Dr. Karl Feyerabend, Langenscheidt, n.d.) supplies the following meanings for <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">tanni:n</font>/<font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">tanni:m</font> , which reveal rather succinctly the word's wide semantic range :</font></div><div style="font-size: 10px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="3"><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></font></div><div style="font-size: 10px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="3">"<font class="Apple-style-span" color="#996633">great water-animal</font>; <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#996633">whale</font>; <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#996633">shark</font>; <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#996633">crocodile</font>; <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#996633">serpent</font>; <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#996633">sea-monster</font>"</font></div><div style="font-size: 10px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;"><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></span></font></div><div style="font-size: 10px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;"><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></span></font></div></div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style="font-size: 13px; ">The Hellenistic <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#0000FF">Greek</font> version of the OT, the <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#0000FF">Septuagint (LXX)</font>, at Genesis 1:21, reads : </div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px; ">Καὶ ἐποίησεν ὀ Θεός </span><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000" style="font-size: 14px; ">τὰ κήτη τὰ μεγάλα...</font> [<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px; ">Kai epoiesen ho Theos </span><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000" style="font-size: 14px; ">ta kete ta megala</font>..."<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 13px; ">And God created the great sea-monsters/whales..."</span>] , </div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style="font-size: 13px; ">using the accusative plural of the Ancient Greek word <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">ketos </font><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000">[</font><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">κήτος</font><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000">]</font> (neuter singular) : </div><div style="font-size: 13px; "><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style="font-size: 13px; ">"<font class="Apple-style-span" color="#996633">any sea-monster, or huge fish</font>" [Liddell, Scott & Jones ("LSJ"), Greek-Engl. Lexicon, 9th Rev. Ed.];</div><div style="font-size: 13px; "><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style="font-size: 13px; "> "<font class="Apple-style-span" color="#996633">Orig. sense 'gulf' ...a sea-monster, also applied to seals</font>" [A Lexicon of Homeric Dialect, R.J.Cunliffe, London&Glasgow; 1924]; </div><div style="font-size: 13px; "><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style="font-size: 13px; ">"<font class="Apple-style-span" color="#996633">sea-monster, e.g. sharks & seals</font>" [A Homeric Dictionary, Georg Autentrieth, (tr. R.P.Keep), 1876, 1901] </div><div style="font-size: 13px; "><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style="font-size: 13px; ">According to LSJ (s.v.), the word had long been used by <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#0000FF">Homer</font> [Odyssey 12.97; Iliad 20.147], and also occurs in the Histories of <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#0000FF">Herodotus</font> [Bk IV.53]. <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">K</font><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">etos</font> could also, we are told by LSJ, have the meaning of "seal; sea-calf", and was evidently used in this sense at Odyssey 4.446 & 452. </div><div style="font-size: 13px; ">The tragedian <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#0000FF">Euripides</font> [fragment 121], and the comedian <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#0000FF">Aristophanes</font> [Nubes, 556] employed the word to refer to monster to which Andromeda was exposed.</div><div style="font-size: 13px; ">Later on, <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#0000FF">Aristotle</font> used <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">k</font><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">etos </font>in his treatises Historia Animalium (HA) [VI.12.1], and De Partibus Animalium(PA) [III.6.2] in the sense of : </div><div style="font-size: 13px; ">"<font class="Apple-style-span" color="#996633">any animal of the whale kind; a cetacean</font>".</div><div style="font-size: 13px; ">From there on, it went into Latin, (which also, incidentally, had another word <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">balaena</font>, from which stemmed many derivatives in mod. European languages).</div><div style="font-size: 13px; "><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style="font-size: 13px; "><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style="font-size: 13px; "><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style="font-size: 13px; ">In the so-called <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#0000FF">Clementine Vulgate 1592</font> (named after Pope Clement VIII 1592-1605), the standard RC Counter-Reformation revision/rescension of St. Jerome's well-known <span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255); ">Latin <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000">rendering</font><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); ">, the text of Genesis 1:21 reads :</span></span></div><div style="font-size: 13px; "><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style="font-size: 13px; ">"Creavitque Deus <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">cete grandia</font>...", where <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">kete </font>[<font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">κήτη</font>] is the Greek neuter accusative plural of <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">k</font><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">etus</font> just adopted wholesale into Latin (spelled <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">cetus</font>; Pl. <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">cete</font>), as the neuter acc. pl. of the adjective 'grandis' demonstrates by concord. (Latin often just adopts Greek words holus-bolus, and uses the Greek declensional case-endings on Greek words, rather than the Latin ones - most well-educated Romans had a fluent command of Hellenistic, if not Classical, Greek, having in very many cases studied philosophy/literature/natural-science (or attended 'finishing school' , as it were) in Athens, or some other Greek city, perhaps in Ionia, the stamping-ground of early western science. A cursory glance at Cicero's numerous very entertaining letters will reveal many Greek words, freq. left in the original script. A command of Greek, for cultivated Romans, was regarded much like a knowledge of French & Latin used to be considered in Europe & America, as a mark of breeding & superior education. What a falling-off there has been, eh? Just kidding, folks. ;) )</div><div style="font-size: 13px; "><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style="font-size: 13px; "><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style="font-size: 13px; "><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style="font-size: 13px; ">Finally, in the other Biblical passage for which I have the Dakota translation, Matthew 12:40, the following are original texts for comparison :</div><div style="font-size: 13px; "><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style="font-size: 13px; ">"Anpetu yamni qa hanyetu yamni hehanyan Jonas <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">hogan tanka</font> tezi kin ohna un qon he iyecen..."</div><div style="font-size: 13px; "><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style="font-size: 13px; ">"For as Jonah was three days & three nights in the <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">whale</font>'s belly..." [KJV, 1611];</div><div style="font-size: 13px; "><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style="font-size: 13px; ">"For as Jonah was in the <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">whale</font>'s belly three days & nights..." [Douai-Rheims, NT 1582, OT 1609];</div><div style="font-size: 13px; "><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style="font-size: 13px; ">ὦσπερ γὰρ ἦν Ἰωνᾶς ἐν τῇ κοιλίᾳ τοῦ <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">κήτους</font> τρεῖς ἠμέρας καὶ τρεῖς νύκτας....[Greek NT, echoing the exact words used in the LXX Book of Jonas at 2:1; 2:2 ];</div><div style="font-size: 13px; "><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style="font-size: 13px; "> hosper gar en Ionas en tei koiliai tou <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">ketous</font> treis hemeras kai treis nyktas...[Above transliterated]; </div><div style="font-size: 13px; "><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style="font-size: 13px; ">Sicut enim fuit Jonas in ventre <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">ceti</font> tribus diebus et tribus noctibus...[Clem. Vulgate 1592].</div><div style="font-size: 13px; "><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style="font-size: 13px; "><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style="font-size: 13px; ">Here, we can see that the word of our NT Greek orig. <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">ketos</font> has been rendered by <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">hogan tanka</font> /hog^a'N tha'Nka/.</div><div style="font-size: 13px; "><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style="font-size: 13px; "><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style="font-size: 13px; "><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style="font-size: 13px; ">It would be fascinating to know the Dakota words used for 'whale/great fish' in the following passages also, if anybody has them at their fingertips :</div><div style="font-size: 13px; "><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style="font-size: 13px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#0000FF">JOB 7:12, and 41:1</font>;</div><div style="font-size: 13px; "><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style="font-size: 13px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#0000FF">EZEKIEL 32:2</font>;</div><div style="font-size: 13px; "><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style="font-size: 13px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#0000FF">JONAH 1:17; 2:10</font></div><div style="font-size: 13px; "><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style="font-size: 13px; "><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style="font-size: 13px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></font></div><div style="font-size: 13px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000">Incidentally, the LXX original of both passages at <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#0000FF">JOB 7:12</font>, & <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#0000FF">40:20</font> </font><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000">(numbering of verses in LXX, & Vulgate sometimes differs from KJV)</font> uses a different Greek word <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">δράκων /drakon/ dragon</font>,which KJV chose to render with <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">whale</font> &<font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000"> leviathan</font> respectively. This is another of those words of somewhat vague & wide application, meaning in Homeric & Classical Greek : <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">snake; serpent</font> (Autentrieth, Op.cit, s.v.); described by Homer as being of huge size, "coiled like a snake, of blood-red or dark colour, shot with changeful hues, dwelling in mountains, feeding on poisonous herbs, with three heads" (Iliad 2.200-208; 11.40; 12.201, 208) . "It appears to have been really the <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">python</font>, or <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">boa</font>". [LSJ, s.v.]. </div><div style="font-size: 13px; ">Aristotle in HA 8.13.3 used the word to denote a <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">large sea-fish</font> of some description : "the great weever" [LSJ]. </div><div style="font-size: 13px; "><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style="font-size: 13px; ">Kind regards,</div><div style="font-size: 13px; "><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style="font-size: 13px; ">Clive.</div></div></div></blockquote></div></body></html>