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<DIV>Interesting stuff - as a simple (and probably irrelevant!) aside, remember we can do that in English for sake of meter, even if it's not the common way to say it - I'm thinking "four and twenty blackbirds baked in a pie...." Of course, "fourscore and seven years ago" also comes to mind... </DIV>
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<DIV>Jill Greer<BR><BR>>>> Bryan James Gordon <linguista@gmail.com> 2/4/2010 11:16 AM >>><BR></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr>I've run into this ki-edi form before too. A quick scan of Dorsey says no, and if it'd been in your Grandma's lexicon you'd know that, so maybe it was in Catherine's field tapes. Catherine?<BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>2010/2/4 Mark J Awakuni-Swetland <SPAN dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:mawakuni-swetland2@unlnotes.unl.edu">mawakuni-swetland2@unlnotes.unl.edu</A>></SPAN><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=gmail_quote><FONT size=2 face=sans-serif>Yesterday in a conversation with one of my UNL speakers, Grandma Delores Black recalled hearing her eldest grandmother counting to ten in the conventional way, then using the kki edi followed by a second number for the teens.</FONT> <BR><BR><FONT size=2 face=sans-serif>gtheboN kki edi shoNkka => 10 kki edi 9</FONT> <BR><BR><FONT size=2 face=sans-serif>with the kki edi variously glossed as 'also', 'and' or something similar.</FONT> <BR><BR><FONT size=2 face=sans-serif>Grandma Delores recalled her mother using the current agthiNshoNkka form.</FONT> <BR><BR><FONT size=2 face=sans-serif>I did not specifically ask about 12, since it has a non-agthiN pattern today</FONT> <BR><BR><FONT size=2 face=sans-serif>shappe noNba</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2 face=sans-serif>six two</FONT> <BR><BR><FONT size=2 face=sans-serif>I will try to elicit this set again from the other speakers with an eye towards what Grandma Delores described.</FONT> <BR><BR><BR><FONT size=2 face=sans-serif>Uthixide</FONT> <BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>
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<TD width="40%"><FONT size=1 face=sans-serif><B>"Rankin, Robert L" <<A href="mailto:rankin@ku.edu" target=_blank>rankin@ku.edu</A>></B> </FONT><BR><FONT size=1 face=sans-serif>Sent by: <A href="mailto:owner-siouan@lists.Colorado.EDU" target=_blank>owner-siouan@lists.Colorado.EDU</A></FONT>
<P><FONT size=1 face=sans-serif>02/02/10 08:57 PM</FONT> </P>
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<DIV align=center><FONT size=1 face=sans-serif>Please respond to<BR><A href="mailto:siouan@lists.Colorado.EDU" target=_blank>siouan@lists.Colorado.EDU</A></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></TD>
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<TD><FONT size=1 face=sans-serif>RE: JOD's terrible 'teens'</FONT></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR>
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<DIV class=h5><BR><BR><BR><TT><FONT size=2>Sounds to me as if they didn't use '19' very often. After all, we don't either except in dates from the 1900s. They don't use glebaN agi shaNkka or something similar?<BR><BR>I did a Siouan Conference paper back in the 80s (or maybe it was the 70s) on Siouan counting and tried to show that the words correlated with the signs for the numbers in the Plains Sign Language. This was a partial quinary system of finger counting beginning with the little finger of the left hand and ending with the little finger of the right. This explained why Dakotan for '9' is 'one in the palm'. I don't know how the finger counting system would work above 10 however. It would be interesting to find out. I don't recall ever seeing the PSL signs for numerals in the teens. <BR><BR>The 'nine' word itself is a bit of a mystery. It's found in both Siouan and Algonquian as 'shankka' or the like. Ives Goddard thinks it's Siouan originally but I've speculated that it's Algonquian originally. Nobody wants to claim the little bastard.<BR><BR>Bob<BR><BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: <A href="mailto:owner-siouan@lists.Colorado.EDU" target=_blank>owner-siouan@lists.Colorado.EDU</A> on behalf of Mark J Awakuni-Swetland<BR>Sent: Tue 2/2/2010 10:45 AM<BR>To: <A href="mailto:siouan@lists.Colorado.EDU" target=_blank>siouan@lists.Colorado.EDU</A><BR>Subject: JOD's terrible 'teens'<BR><BR>Aloha All,<BR><BR>I am working through Dorsey's numbers in the teens. <BR><BR>He has several definitions for the base number that are not always all <BR>used on a number. For example:<BR><BR>nineteen<BR><BR>the other nine<BR><BR>the extra nine<BR><BR>again nine<BR><BR>I was wondering what y'all might make of this.<BR><BR>Mark<BR><BR><BR>Mark Awakuni-Swetland, Ph.D.<BR>Assistant Professor of Anthropology<BR>and Ethnic Studies (Native American Studies)<BR>University of Nebraska<BR>Lincoln, NE 68588-0368<BR><BR></FONT></TT><A href="http://omahalanguage.unl.edu/" target=_blank><TT><FONT size=2>http://omahalanguage.unl.edu</FONT></TT></A><TT><FONT size=2><BR></FONT></TT><A href="http://omahaponca.unl.edu/" target=_blank><TT><FONT size=2>http://omahaponca.unl.edu</FONT></TT></A><TT><FONT size=2><BR>Phone 402-472-3455<BR>FAX: 402-472-9642<BR><BR></FONT></TT><BR></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV></BODY></HTML>