<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML xmlns:o = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"><HEAD>
<META content=text/html;charset=utf-8 http-equiv=Content-Type>
<META name=GENERATOR content="MSHTML 8.00.7600.16722"></HEAD>
<BODY style="PADDING-LEFT: 10px; PADDING-RIGHT: 10px; PADDING-TOP: 15px"
id=MailContainerBody leftMargin=0 topMargin=0 CanvasTabStop="true"
name="Compose message area">
<DIV><FONT color=#000080 face=Arial>It seems to me, that there are several
tangents in motion here after the original question was prompted. As to
that original question, it seems to be one of a cultural context based on
English (Anglo-American Language/ word use) and then trying to fit that onto
other language and cultures.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000080 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000080 face=Arial>Meanwhile, it is good that the discussion
was redirected to Siouan applications. Both Jill and Bryon have clerified
the direction and discussion. Sometimes, we get our English mindset in
motion to force or squeeze out applications of Siouan words/ terms that are
applied in ways unfamiliar to the English speaker. The IOM
term <SPAN style="COLOR: #0033cc"><FONT size=2><STRONG><FONT
face="Times New Roman">šgá<SUP>n</SUP></FONT></STRONG></FONT></SPAN> is diferent
than the term "thka ~ hga" (white <EM>color</EM>) and "thkan" (opaque,
clear, transparent). The <SPAN style="COLOR: #0033cc"><FONT
size=2><STRONG><FONT
face="Times New Roman">šgá<SUP>n </SUP></FONT></STRONG></FONT></SPAN> of
IOM refers to a particular energy that may be manifested physically or in
non-material/ organic format. Perhaps one could even say in a spiritual
format. In Lakota, I have seen a discussion at length of
the term, but I am on the road and have to way to explore my resources nor
check my new consortium Lakota Dictionary. Someone else can do that, as
well as get someone well versed in Lakota terms.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000080 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000080 face=Arial>For IOM, taken from my revised dictionary
files, I have the following concrete offering: </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify; TEXT-INDENT: -0.1in; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt -0.1in"
class=MsoNormal><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN
style="COLOR: #0033cc"><FONT size=2><SPAN style="COLOR: #0033cc"><FONT
size=2>šgá<SUP>n</SUP></FONT></SPAN>; ská<SUP>n</SUP></FONT></SPAN></B><I
style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt"><SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>n/v.i. <SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN></SPAN></I><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt">(<I style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal">to be</I>)
diligent, active.<I style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal"> <SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>[L/D.šga<SUP>n</SUP>].</I><SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>**<I
style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal">SEE</I>: <B
style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">active</B>.</SPAN><FONT size=2><SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN><B
style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN
style="COLOR: #0033cc">šgá<SUP>n</SUP>wexa</SPAN></B></FONT><I
style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt"><SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>adj/v.i. <SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN></SPAN></I><FONT size=2>hard;
diligent</FONT><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt">, </SPAN><FONT size=2>diligently;
active, actively.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN><B
style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN
style="COLOR: #0033cc">šgá<SUP>n</SUP>wéxa wa^ú<SUP>n</SUP></SPAN></B></FONT><I
style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt"><SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>v.i. <SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN></SPAN></I><FONT size=2>work
hard.</FONT><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt"><SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN><U>Šgá</U><SUP>n</SUP><U>wéxa</U>
ke,<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Uxré wa^ú<SUP>n</SUP>
rušdá<SUP>n</SUP> gúnana,<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>He worked
<U>hard</U> to get done early.</SPAN><FONT size=2><SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN><B
style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN
style="COLOR: #0033cc">wósga<SUP>n</SUP></SPAN></B></FONT><I
style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt"><SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>n. <SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN></SPAN></I><FONT size=2>tradition;
custom; habit; talent</FONT><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt"> (FM)</SPAN><FONT
size=2>.<B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><o:p></o:p></B></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt Tahoma">
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A
title="mailto:linguista@gmail.com
CTRL + Click to follow link"
href="mailto:linguista@gmail.com">Bryan James Gordon</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, February 23, 2011 12:34 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A
title="mailto:siouan@lists.Colorado.EDU
CTRL + Click to follow link"
href="mailto:siouan@lists.Colorado.EDU">siouan@lists.Colorado.EDU</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: cross-linguistic metaphors (fwd)</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr>Wow this is an engaging thread! I miss when we had more of these.
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Hi Jill, how are you? I think, unfortunately, a native speaker could only
help us to reject, not to confirm, the hypothesis, because of course you're
right, if she or he did confirm that it's the colour term ska being used, we
would not be able to rule out English influence. Universal metaphors have
attracted some research lately in cognitive science, where they go under names
like spreading activation and stereotypic processing. For a while this very
question of whiteness/clearness-as-good/skillful/safe, darkness-as-bad, was
getting referenced in cog-sci colloquia every other week. Ugh. There are some
metaphors that have indeed proved robust cross-culturally in labs (inasmuch as
labs can be cross-cultural!) - things that are generic like horoscopes - things
like high-pitch-as-piercing/whining/uppity. I'm guessing most universal
metaphors are this trivial or more so. The only truly inescapable metaphor is
the linguistic expression as a metaphor for its referent.</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV>One thing that makes me skeptical of the clarity-metaphor's necessity is
that many languages, including Umoⁿhoⁿ and Baxoje, have a word for "clear" that
is <I>not </I>ska, but rather the other common Siouan word for white, sóⁿ [są]
(U) / tháⁿ [θą] (B).</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV>But the arguments Bob, Rory and others have made in favour of the metaphor
are also quite compelling.</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV>It's hard to decide.<BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>2011/2/22 Rory M Larson <SPAN dir=ltr><<A
href="mailto:rlarson@unlnotes.unl.edu">rlarson@unlnotes.unl.edu</A>></SPAN><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote>
<DIV class=im><TT><FONT size=2>I'm open to the possibility that some ska's
might be a different word, perhaps related to shkoN. To make that
connection, we'd have to both lose the nasalization and do a Siouan
sound-symbolic fricative ablaut shift.</FONT></TT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>How distinctive is nasality on unstressed final low vowels anyway? Think
about gthéboⁿ "ten", which only a few people pronounce that way anymore: it has
become gthéba for many others. The sound-symbolic fricative ablaut is a nifty
proposal. A connection to -shka would be interesting. I'd given it some thought,
but nothing obvious really sticks out. Of course in Baxoje forms like
shga~sga~thga~xga~hga often vary sociolinguistically or stylistically (i.e. some
of them are "old" forms, others are "Jiwere" forms, etc.), so maybe this has
something to do with how Baxoje uses non-cognates to express the same
meaning.</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV>In the dictionary Jimm gives Lakȟota bléza "sane", Dakhota mdéza "clear",
Hocąk péres "clear, sane, intelligent" as cognates of brédhe. I suspect a
connection also with grédhe "many-coloured". Interestingly, rédhe is "tongue".
Umoⁿhoⁿ gthéze is "spotted/rippled", maybe they don't say bthéze because they
say wazhíⁿska instead, maybe one of the speakers has heard a word like bthéze
before?</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT><BR></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>