<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" ><tr><td valign="top" style="font: inherit;"><DIV>I can't find a word that means drop or to drop in Tutelo-Saponi but I do find the word for fallen = ohiki and fall down = hiphe</DIV>
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<DIV>Is it possible that one of these two words may have the drop aspect in their root word?</DIV>
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<DIV><BR><BR>Scott P. Collins<BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>WE ARE THE ONES WE HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR<BR><BR>Evil Is An Outer Manifestation Of An Inner Struggle<BR><BR>“Men and women become accomplices to those evils they fail to oppose.”<BR><BR>"The greater the denial the greater the awakening."<BR><BR>--- On <B>Fri, 3/1/13, Rory Larson <I><rlarson1@UNL.EDU></I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><BR>From: Rory Larson <rlarson1@UNL.EDU><BR>Subject: Re: Words for Loss, Lose and Lost<BR>To: SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu<BR>Date: Friday, March 1, 2013, 5:47 PM<BR><BR>
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<P class=yiv1581811871MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Goⁿ gat</SPAN><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">ʰ</SPAN><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">egoⁿ Arizona nikkashiⁿga ama gizhu noⁿ, ebthegoⁿ!</SPAN></DIV>
<P class=yiv1581811871MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </SPAN></DIV>
<P class=yiv1581811871MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Have you ever run into the kke- affix in Dorsey? We just discovered it about a year ago. There was an example or two in the Dorsey dictionary, and the speakers recognized it easily. Basically, it works just like the kki-, reflexive, affix, but it implies that it happened to you rather than that you did it to yourself, and maybe what happened to you wasn’t desirable. So if you say:</SPAN></DIV>
<P class=yiv1581811871MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </SPAN></DIV>
<P class=yiv1581811871MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> uxpathe-akkithe</SPAN></DIV>
<P class=yiv1581811871MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </SPAN></DIV>
<P class=yiv1581811871MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">I think it would mean “I lost myself (intentionally)”, but if you say:</SPAN></DIV>
<P class=yiv1581811871MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </SPAN></DIV>
<P class=yiv1581811871MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> uxpathe-akkethe</SPAN></DIV>
<P class=yiv1581811871MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </SPAN></DIV>
<P class=yiv1581811871MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">it would mean “I got lost (it happened to me)”.</SPAN></DIV>
<P class=yiv1581811871MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </SPAN></DIV>
<P class=yiv1581811871MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">I’m wondering how widespread this affix is in Siouan? It seems to be pretty rare in the written material even in Omaha.</SPAN></DIV>
<P class=yiv1581811871MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </SPAN></DIV>
<P class=yiv1581811871MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </SPAN></DIV>
<P class=yiv1581811871MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Also, on the original question of ‘lose’/’lost’, there might be more than one way to take it:</SPAN></DIV>
<P class=yiv1581811871MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </SPAN></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.75in" class=yiv1581811871MsoListParagraph><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><SPAN>1.<SPAN style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; FONT-VARIANT: normal; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-SIZE: 7pt; FONT-WEIGHT: normal"> </SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">losing a thing (That would be “uxpare-re” in Omaha.)</SPAN></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.75in" class=yiv1581811871MsoListParagraph><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><SPAN>2.<SPAN style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; FONT-VARIANT: normal; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-SIZE: 7pt; FONT-WEIGHT: normal"> </SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">losing a person (That might be “mugroⁿ are” in Omaha. I.e., the person took off and disappeared on you, “went mugroⁿ”.)</SPAN></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.75in" class=yiv1581811871MsoListParagraph><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><SPAN>3.<SPAN style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; FONT-VARIANT: normal; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-SIZE: 7pt; FONT-WEIGHT: normal"> </SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">losing your way (I’m not really sure what that is in Omaha. I’ll have to ask.)</SPAN></DIV>
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<P class=yiv1581811871MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </SPAN></DIV>
<P class=yiv1581811871MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Anyway, glad to hear you dropped back into Arizona. One of your last messages had left me a little worried about your fate in Panama!</SPAN></DIV>
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<P class=yiv1581811871MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Rory</SPAN></DIV>
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<P class=yiv1581811871MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Bryan James Gordon<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, March 01, 2013 4:20 PM<BR><B>To:</B> SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: Words for Loss, Lose and Lost</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=yiv1581811871MsoNormal>Óⁿhoⁿ, Panama-thoⁿdi uxpáthe-akitha-mazhi ede théthudi Arizona moⁿzhoⁿ-thoⁿdi oⁿwóⁿxpathe moⁿbthiⁿ shóⁿshoⁿ!</DIV>
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<P class=yiv1581811871MsoNormal>Another thing I see a lot in Dorsey is the dative "lost to somebody", "uíxpathe" /uixpaðe/. </DIV></DIV>
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<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=yiv1581811871MsoNormal>Bryan</DIV>
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<P class=yiv1581811871MsoNormal>2013/3/1 Rory Larson <<A href="http://us.mc1814.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rlarson1@unl.edu" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:rlarson1@unl.edu">rlarson1@unl.edu</A>></DIV>
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<P class=yiv1581811871MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Looking at the dictionary I’ve been working on with our speakers, it appears that the causative uxpare-re is the only one that presently translates as ‘lose’. The plain uxpare verb mainly means to fall or drop, from a height.</SPAN></DIV>
<P class=yiv1581811871MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </SPAN></DIV>
<P class=yiv1581811871MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Bryan, Panama roⁿdi uxparerira-baži t</SPAN><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">ʰ</SPAN><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">e udoⁿ!</SPAN></DIV>
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<P class=yiv1581811871MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Rory</SPAN></DIV>
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<P class=yiv1581811871MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Siouan Linguistics [mailto:<A href="http://us.mc1814.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu">SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</A>] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Bryan James Gordon<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, March 01, 2013 2:56 PM<BR><B>To:</B> <A href="http://us.mc1814.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu">SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</A></SPAN></DIV>
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<P class=yiv1581811871MsoNormal><BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: Words for Loss, Lose and Lost</DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=yiv1581811871MsoNormal>In the Dorsey texts for Omaha and Ponca, "uxpathe" /uxpaðe/ is "lost", and for the transitive "lose" there seems to be a choice of using "uxpathe" or the causative "uxpathethe" /uxpaðe-ðe/.</DIV>
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<P class=yiv1581811871MsoNormal>Bryan</DIV></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=yiv1581811871MsoNormal>2013/2/25 Scott Collins <<A href="http://us.mc1814.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=saponi360@yahoo.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:saponi360@yahoo.com">saponi360@yahoo.com</A>></DIV>
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<P class=yiv1581811871MsoNormal>Thank you Dave, I didn't see that one in the Biloxi dictionary. I must have missed it. </DIV></DIV>
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<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=yiv1581811871MsoNormal><BR><BR>Scott P. Collins<BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>WE ARE THE ONES WE HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR<BR><BR>Evil Is An Outer Manifestation Of An Inner Struggle<BR><BR>“Men and women become accomplices to those evils they fail to oppose.”<BR><BR>"The greater the denial the greater the awakening."</DIV></DIV>
<P class=yiv1581811871MsoNormal>--- On <B>Sat, 2/23/13, David Kaufman <I><<A href="http://us.mc1814.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=dvkanth2010@GMAIL.COM" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:dvkanth2010@GMAIL.COM">dvkanth2010@GMAIL.COM</A>></I></B> wrote:</DIV></DIV>
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<P class=yiv1581811871MsoNormal><BR>From: David Kaufman <<A href="http://us.mc1814.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=dvkanth2010@GMAIL.COM" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:dvkanth2010@GMAIL.COM">dvkanth2010@GMAIL.COM</A>><BR>Subject: Re: Words for Loss, Lose and Lost<BR>To: <A href="http://us.mc1814.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu">SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</A><BR>Date: Saturday, February 23, 2013, 11:21 AM</DIV>
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<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=yiv1581811871MsoNormal>The Biloxi word for 'lose' is ka-paha-ni-ye: ka- and -ni are the circumfix for negation; paha means something like 'sight' or 'appearance'; -ye is the causative = something like 'cause to not be in sight' or 'cause to be invisible.' <BR><BR>Dave</DIV>
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<P class=yiv1581811871MsoNormal>On Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 11:23 PM, Scott Collins <<A href="http://us.mc1814.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=saponi360@yahoo.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank>saponi360@yahoo.com</A>> wrote:</DIV>
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<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Hello, I was trying to find the word or words for loss, lose and lost in Tutelo-Saponi. </DIV></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">What would comparative words be in other Dhegiha languages and what would be the literal translation of those words? I'm hoping to be able to extrapolate the word for loss or lost through comparison unless there is a word that is used for loss in Tutelo-Saponi. </DIV></DIV>
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<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">I was thinking perhaps "iha:o ki-hiye-nE". </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Literally, "no balance". </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">lE= go, no= yaha or iha:o, and way = hatkox (path) </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">lE:yaha:hatkox or lE:yahatkox-se </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Could these words figure into gone away (lost, lose)... </DIV>
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<P class=yiv1581811871MsoNormal><BR>Scott P. Collins<BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>WE ARE THE ONES WE HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR<BR><BR>Evil Is An Outer Manifestation Of An Inner Struggle<BR><BR>“Men and women become accomplices to those evils they fail to oppose.”<BR><BR>"The greater the denial the greater the awakening."</DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
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<P class=yiv1581811871MsoNormal><BR><BR clear=all><BR>-- <BR>David Kaufman, Ph.C.<BR>University of Kansas<BR>Linguistic Anthropology</DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=yiv1581811871MsoNormal>-- <BR>***********************************************************<BR>Bryan James Gordon, MA<BR>Joint PhD Program in Linguistics and Anthropology<BR>University of Arizona<BR>*********************************************************** </DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=yiv1581811871MsoNormal>-- <BR>***********************************************************<BR>Bryan James Gordon, MA<BR>Joint PhD Program in Linguistics and Anthropology<BR>University of Arizona<BR>*********************************************************** </DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></td></tr></table>