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<DIV>Here is what Meuse had for -i :</DIV>
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<P align=left>"-i</B></FONT><FONT face="Times New Roman">, articulate state marker, article (definite or indefinite), “a, an, the”. Also </FONT><B><FONT face=Arial,Bold>-y</B></FONT><FONT face=TimesNewRoman><FONT face="Times New Roman">.</FONT>
<P align=left>Nominals serving as modifiers are always in the articulate state, and follow the
<P align=left>word being modified, which will be in the construct. Stand-alone nominals can
<P align=left>also be in the articulate, to signify the general article (no real distinction between
<P align=left>indefinite / definite articles.) Spelling “-</FONT><FONT face=Arial>y</FONT><FONT face=TimesNewRoman>” following some vowels is purely
<P align=left>aesthetic, and is interchangeable with </FONT><FONT face=Arial>-i</FONT><FONT face=TimesNewRoman>. However, if the final syllable of the
<P align=left>construct includes a strong nasal and/or glottal quality (generally indicated by
<P align=left>final </FONT><FONT face=Arial>-n, -n’, </FONT><FONT face=TimesNewRoman>or </FONT><FONT face=Arial>-q</FONT><FONT face=TimesNewRoman>), the corresponding articulate will end in a ‘broken’ dipthong
<P align=left>similarly incorporating the nasal and/or glottal, in slightly weaker form. This
<P align=left>sound can be inserted by the speaker at any point within the ‘broken dipthong’;
<DIV>exactly where would be difficult to discern in rapid pronunciation." ---Meuse, Yesnechi, pg. 18.</DIV>
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<DIV>Also see Oliverio, pg. 202 for -i and i- usages.</DIV>
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<DIV>The word "the" is a definite article correct?</DIV>
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<DIV>Oliverio, pg.323 the word love as yato-ste:kE</DIV>
<DIV>Meuse, pg 71, the word love as<FONT face=TimesNewRoman> Yandosteka</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV>Here is one link that has some information on sweetgrass ranges: <A href="http://www.ecoseeds.com/sweetgrassinfo.html#anchor504328" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.ecoseeds.com/sweetgrassinfo.html#anchor504328</A></DIV>
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<DIV>However, I do not have a source that tells me one way or the other that the Tutelo, Saponi or Occaneechi utilized it or not. I know that I use it at present. Also sense there are other herbs used as sweetgrass or called sweetgrass I'm sure there was a usage at some piont in the past, but at what level I don't know. I'm not sure any ethnobotanical work has been done in the past that gathered that sort of detail. If there was I would love to read it.</DIV>
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<DIV>Grass is a word found in Meuse pg. 70, "<FONT face=TimesNewRoman>Grass – Sunktagi"</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV></FONT>Grass in Oliverio, pg 319, " grass mukta:ki, oto:, sokta:ki " </DIV>
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<DIV>I don't think I'm translating from English into Tutelo-Saponi exactly word for word, but I am trying to get as close as possible so that I can have a good translation of what I'm wishing to say in the language. I'm definitely not a linguist or an English major so alot of help is needed in order to try and utilize my people's language. I use all the availble to me sources/dictionaries on Tutelo-Saponi because none of the individual dictionaries is complete. Some have words the others left out or were unaware of at the time they published. I do rely heavily on Oliverio's dictionary as well as this list here in order to try and get word formations that aren't in any of the dictionaries; based on the way this list says Siouan languages form their words. Of this I am very greatful, for without it I would be constantly hitting brickwalls in attempting to utilize the language. </DIV></FONT>
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<DIV>The usages of -ki also seem to be variant and have various meanings; (see Oliverio, pg.214 for -ki usages). It gets confusing.</DIV>
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<DIV>My wish is that someone would do a more comprehensive work on Tutelo-Saponi and a work that would be accessable to people like myself as well being a teaching tool for learning the language. The only extensive interaction I get on the language is here on this list. Not that I haven't tried to get others to join in the discussions on our langauge elsewhere. </DIV>
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<DIV>Again, I want to thank this list and especially Dave and Robert. Your help has been invaluable. Hopefully if I keep at this long enough I may be able to utilize my ancestors language in better way that is fully correct and truly Siouan as a living language. </DIV>
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<DIV><BR>Scott P. Collins<BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>WE ARE THE ONES WE HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR<BR><BR>Evil Is An Outer Manifestation Of An Inner Struggle<BR><BR>“Men and women become accomplices to those evils they fail to oppose.”<BR><BR>"The greater the denial the greater the awakening."<BR><BR>--- On <B>Sat, 5/25/13, Rankin, Robert L. <I><rankin@KU.EDU></I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><BR>From: Rankin, Robert L. <rankin@KU.EDU><BR>Subject: Re: Conjugation Of A Sentence in Tutelo-Saponi<BR>To: SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu<BR>Date: Saturday, May 25, 2013, 3:07 PM<BR><BR>
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<P class=yiv1334158451MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I agree with Willem and Dave that we can’t just translate the English word-for-word into Tutelo-Saponi.<SPAN> </SPAN>The Siouan way of saying ‘I love the smell of sweetgrass’ would not contain an equivalent for “of”, in fact I’m not at all sure that there is ever much of an equivalent of that preposition in Siouan.<SPAN> </SPAN>I think the way it would be expressed in a Siouan language would be something close to ‘Sweetgrass-smell to.me-it.is.good’.<SPAN> </SPAN>And actually, the words translated ‘love’ in the literature are a compound of yaⁿt-‘heart’, o- ‘in it’, and steke ‘good’.<SPAN> </SPAN></SPAN></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=yiv1334158451MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I’ve never heard of William Meuse, but from his spellings, it looks as though he just copied the Dorsey file from the Smithsonian letter for letter.<SPAN> </SPAN>It’s better to use Oliverio, since she standardized the spellings, included all earlier research and includes context with examples.<SPAN> </SPAN></SPAN></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=yiv1334158451MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I don’t know the range of sweetgrass for certain, but I doubt the Tutelos had it in any quantity and I don’t think it grows that far south.<SPAN> </SPAN>The term for sweetgrass in Dakota-Lakota matches the word for ‘onion’ in Kansa and Osage.<SPAN> </SPAN>I don’t know which meaning was the original one, though onions are more widespread.<SPAN> </SPAN></SPAN>
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<P class=yiv1334158451MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The Tutelo word ‘oto:’ just means ‘to be blue or green’.<SPAN> </SPAN>In that sense it probably wouldn’t be used for ‘grass' by itself..<SPAN> </SPAN>So I don’t know what to do about trying to translate ‘sweetgrass’.<SPAN> <BR></SPAN></SPAN>
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<P class=yiv1334158451MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><SPAN>I don't think that i- equates to 'the' in any sense, so I'm not sure where that usage is coming from. In the Sapir transcriptions of Tutelo it appears that -ki after the noun is used for 'the', and since that matches the definite article in Dakotan, I suspect that's as close as we can get in Tutelo.<BR></SPAN></SPAN>
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<P class=yiv1334158451MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Bob</SPAN>
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<DIV style="DIRECTION: ltr" id=yiv1334158451divRpF465494><FONT color=#000000 size=2 face=Tahoma><B>From:</B> Siouan Linguistics [SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu] on behalf of Scott Collins [saponi360@YAHOO.COM]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, May 24, 2013 10:52 PM<BR><B>To:</B> SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu<BR><B>Subject:</B> Conjugation Of A Sentence in Tutelo-Saponi<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
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<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt" class=yiv1334158451MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #333333" lang=EN><FONT size=3><FONT face=Calibri>Verb at end of sentence</FONT></FONT></SPAN>
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<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt" class=yiv1334158451MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #333333" lang=EN><FONT size=3><FONT face=Calibri>Adjectives follow nouns</FONT></FONT></SPAN>
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<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt" class=yiv1334158451MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #333333" lang=EN><FONT size=3><FONT face=Calibri>Adverbs and Direct Objects before the Verb</FONT></FONT></SPAN>
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<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt" class=yiv1334158451MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #333333" lang=EN><FONT size=3><FONT face=Calibri></FONT></FONT></SPAN>
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<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt" class=yiv1334158451MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #333333" lang=EN><FONT size=3><FONT face=Calibri>I love the smell of sweetgrass.</FONT></FONT></SPAN>
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<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt" class=yiv1334158451MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #333333" lang=EN><FONT size=3><FONT face=Calibri></FONT></FONT></SPAN>
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<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt" class=yiv1334158451MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #333333" lang=EN><FONT size=3><FONT face=Calibri>I = mi (subject/noun)</FONT></FONT></SPAN>
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<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt" class=yiv1334158451MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #333333" lang=EN><FONT size=3><FONT face=Calibri>Love = yato-ste:kE (verb)</FONT></FONT></SPAN>
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<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt" class=yiv1334158451MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #333333" lang=EN><FONT size=3><FONT face=Calibri>The = i- (definite article)</FONT></FONT></SPAN>
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<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt" class=yiv1334158451MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #333333" lang=EN><FONT size=3><FONT face=Calibri>Smell = pi (you can add an infatic such as –se after the word) (adjective)</FONT></FONT></SPAN>
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<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt" class=yiv1334158451MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #333333" lang=EN><FONT size=3><FONT face=Calibri>Of = qekego (preposition)</FONT></FONT></SPAN>
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<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt" class=yiv1334158451MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #333333" lang=EN><FONT size=3 face=Calibri>Sweetgrass = chiko:yo oto: (object/noun)</FONT></SPAN>
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<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt" class=yiv1334158451MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #333333" lang=EN><FONT size=3 face=Calibri><BR><BR>My final conjugation:</FONT></SPAN><FONT size=3 face=Calibri>
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<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt" class=yiv1334158451MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #333333" lang=EN><FONT size=3><FONT face=Calibri>I- pi qekego <SPAN> </SPAN>chiko:yo oto: <SPAN> </SPAN>mi yato-ste:kE. ( I love the smell of sweetgrass.) <SPAN> </SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN>
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<DIV>Is this all correct?</DIV>
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<DIV><BR><BR>Scott P. Collins<BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>WE ARE THE ONES WE HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR<BR><BR>Evil Is An Outer Manifestation Of An Inner Struggle<BR><BR>“Men and women become accomplices to those evils they fail to oppose.”<BR><BR>"The greater the denial the greater the awakening."</DIV></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></DIV></td></tr></table>