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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Dear all:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">I presented a paper on this at the Siouan-Caddoan conference (I think) in 1995. I’ll scan the handout I did in and send it to the list as an attachment tom
orrow. Rory has a few forms I didn’;t get but I got quite a few.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Best</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Anthony</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Greer, Jill<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 20 August 2013 23:01<br>
<b>To:</b> SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Looking for help with "Sanganasch"</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Yep, and the Ioways were known to have made it up to Quebec at some point, my memory is fuzzy at this point on the source, but it was a military
venture, so it has to be 1812 or even earlier - French and Indian, or Revolutionary (chronologically out of order, sorry). Yet another occasion for needing a name for Englishmen aside from the fur trade and the Hudson Bay Company, of course.</span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Siouan Linguistics [<a href="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu">mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Bryan James Gordon<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 20, 2013 4:30 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu">SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Looking for help with "Sanganasch"</span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Rory's 1812 idea is a good one. I had been thinking of the Potawatomi Trail of Death as a possible way for the word to make its way to the Central Plains, but that didn't happen until after Maximilian's visit.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">2013/8/20 Campbell, Sky <<a href="mailto:sky@omtribe.org" target="_blank">sky@omtribe.org</a>></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">Oh, and I forgot to answer another question. Near as I can tell, both “Sanganasch” and “ra-kra-she” are Otoe (or Otoe-Missouria).</span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:14.0pt; color:#1F497D">Sky Campbell, B. A.</span></b><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">Language Director</span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">Otoe-Missouria Tribe</span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"><a href="tel:580-723-4466%20ext.%20111" target="_blank">580-723-4466 ext. 111</a></span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"><a href="mailto:sky@omtribe.org" target="_blank">sky@omtribe.org</a></span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Siouan Linguistics [mailto:<a href="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu" target="_blank">SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Rory Larson</span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 20, 2013 3:49 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu" target="_blank">SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</a></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">Subject:</span></b><span lang="EN-US"> Re: Looking for help with "Sanganasch"</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">Hi Sky,</span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">I’ll second (or third) what Bryan and Bob said, and add a couple more Algonquian variants I found a few years ago for a class paper I did:</span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"> French:
</span><span lang="EN-US">les anglois<span style="color:#1F497D">
</span>l e s a n g l oi s</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"> Micmac:
</span><span lang="EN-US">aĝalasiew a ĝ a l a s iew</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> aglasiew<span style="color:#1F497D"> </span>a g l a s iew</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"> Cree:
</span><span lang="EN-US">aakayaasimowin<span style="color:#1F497D"> </span>aa k a y aa s imowin</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"> Ojibwe:
</span><span lang="EN-US">zhaaganaash(i)<span style="color:#1F497D"> </span>zh aa g a n aa sh (i)</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">` Otoe:
</span><span lang="EN-US">sanganasch<span style="color:#1F497D">
</span> s a n g a n a sch</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">
</span><span lang="EN-US">ra-kra-she r a k r a sh e</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">If languages didn’t have an /l/, they might use a /y/, an /r/ or an /n/ as a substitute. Also, probably none of them had the complex diphthongs that a lot of European languages have, or the consonant
clusters, so imitating a sound like /glwaz/ might have taken some jiggering.</span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">I’m not quite clear from your description what language these “Otoe” versions are from. Are the Maximilian and Dorsey versions both Otoe? Or is one of them Ioway or Missouria? If they are both
supposed to be from the same language, it’s notable that the Maximilian sanganasch term is so similar to the Ojibwe form and the Dorsey rakrashe term so disparate. Perhaps the rakrashe term is the older, Siouan, rendition, and the sanganasch term is a later
borrowing from Ojibwe? If so, I would guess that the borrowing might have dated to about the time of the War of 1812, when tribes from the Great Lakes to the Missouri were forming broad alliances crosscutting traditional language groups, with or against the
British.</span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">Welcome to the list!</span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">Rory</span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Siouan Linguistics [<a href="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu" target="_blank">mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Campbell, Sky<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 20, 2013 1:04 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU" target="_blank">SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Looking for help with "Sanganasch"</span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">This is my first email to this list so I’ll introduce myself.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">My name is Sky Campbell and I am the Language Director for the Otoe-Missouria tribe. I’ve been here just over four years now and we’ve come a long way in our understanding of the language, gathering historical information,
and recording tribal members.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">I am currently wrestling with the term “Sanganasch” which is from Maximilian’s word list (via Thwaites). Maximilian translates it as “Englishman.” Page 109 of the
<i>Handbook of North American Indians, Vol. 13</i>, says it is “ultimately from older French
<i>(le)s anglois</i> ‘the English’.” I’ve attached this page to this email but I don’t know how this list will treat attachments. This page also lists variations from other tribes such as “sagdášį” and “sagdášį” (Santee-Sisseton), “šagláša” (Teton), “Ságanasch”
(Omaha), etc.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Based on Maximilian’s spelling for sound, it could roughly be said as “sahng-gah-nash.”</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">No matter how I try, I can’t see any real similarities between “(le)s anglois” and “Sanganasch” in my mind. I can (just!) see “(le)<u>s ang</u>lois” in “<u>Sang</u>anasch” (underlined parts).</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">So I spoke with a friend of mine who lives in France. He was originally from here but has lived there over 20 years now. He also couldn’t see how “(le)s anglois” could be shoehorned into “Sanganasch.” Since he is fluent
in French I asked for his take and he did mention what he thought it might be and that was “sale ganache” which he said is a sort of slang for dirty face, ugly face, detestable, untrustworthy, and several more unflattering terms. He said the “ganache” was
(aside from the dessert!) something along the lines of a lower jaw of a 4-legged animal. But he noted the lack of an “L” in the term and I told him from an Otoe-Missouria perspective, there isn’t an “L” (as in Larry) sound really but the rolling “r” sort
of covers that area and that it might be possible that it was just skipped or contracted over time. He also mentioned “sang” (blood) as well.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">I have no idea how accurate this term could be. But if it is, it would be very funny to have the French somewhat badmouthing their English (and maybe Spanish) competitors by giving the tribes a less than favorable translation
for them. But for this to be true, this “slang” would have to have been in use almost 200 years ago and I have no idea if it was. Plus it looks like its use would have had to have been pretty wide-spread since other tribes had a similar term.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">So that is what I am looking at. Any feedback, any avenues to check out, any sources, etc. would be greatly appreciated. If this is some form of “(le)s anglois”, I’d just like to know how. Or if anyone can tell me
if I am getting close.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Also, if it helps, James Owen Dorsey had the term “ra-kra-she” for “Englishman.”</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:14.0pt">Sky Campbell, B. A.</span></b><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Language Director</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Otoe-Missouria Tribe</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><a href="tel:580-723-4466%20ext.%20111" target="_blank">580-723-4466 ext. 111</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><a href="mailto:sky@omtribe.org" target="_blank">sky@omtribe.org</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><br>
</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><br>
</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><br>
<br clear="all">
</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">-- <br>
***********************************************************<br>
Bryan James Gordon, MA<br>
Joint PhD Program in Linguistics and Anthropology<br>
University of Arizona<br>
*********************************************************** </span></p>
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