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<font face="Arial" size="4">While I have enjoyed the discussion and particularly liked 'sale ganache' "dirty mug", I think the explanation in terms of Middle French 'les anglois' is pretty well established. And although it was no doubt passed from tribe to
tribe via several native languages, it is probably that French traders also helped spread the term<font size="4">. "Dirty mug" or "dirty faces" isn't too far off from the origin of Desmoines though.<br>
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<font size="4">Bob</font><br>
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<div style="direction: ltr;" id="divRpF654204"><font color="#000000" face="Tahoma" size="2"><b>From:</b> Siouan Linguistics [SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu] on behalf of Campbell, Sky [sky@OMTRIBE.ORG]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, August 23, 2013 9:40 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Looking for help with "Sanganasch"<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Jamie, to be honest, I don’t know. It is definitely close enough to catch my attention (as it did yours). Especially because of your mention of it being
derogatory which my friend suggested with “sale ganache.”</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Jimm, thanks for the confirmation on “Lag-gar-ash.” It sure stood out to me but I wanted to be sure I wasn’t seeing something I wanted to see.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">George, I did a quick search on that individual (Billy Caldwell) and it seems he was half Pottawatomi (Algonquian language). It is fascinating to sort of
see the route this name took through the decades. I am slowly getting my mind wrapped around Bob’s matching of Sanganasch to “les anglois” but I think I am getting a feel for it. It is taking some time for me to get used to the changes but that is part of
the fun </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:Wingdings; color:#1F497D">J</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">. I am very anxious to see John Koontz’s information on this term.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:14.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Sky Campbell, B. A.</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Language Director</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Otoe-Missouria Tribe</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">580-723-4466 ext. 111</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">sky@omtribe.org</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jamie Carpenter<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, August 21, 2013 10:00 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Looking for help with "Sanganasch"</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Not sure how this would work historically, but could it be related to the Gaelic "Sassenach" (generally a derogatory term for the English)?</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">-Jamie</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Amateur Linguist</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Aug 20, 2013, at 12:03 PM, "Campbell, Sky" <<a href="mailto:sky@OMTRIBE.ORG" target="_blank">sky@OMTRIBE.ORG</a>> wrote:</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">This is my first email to this list so I’ll introduce myself.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">My name is Sky Campbell and I am the Language Director for the Otoe-Missouria tribe. I’ve been here just over four years now and we’ve come a long way in our understanding
of the language, gathering historical information, and recording tribal members.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">I am currently wrestling with the term “Sanganasch” which is from Maximilian’s word list (via Thwaites). Maximilian translates it as “Englishman.” Page 109 of the<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><i>Handbook
of North American Indians, Vol. 13</i>, says it is “ultimately from older French<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><i>(le)s anglois</i><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>‘the English’.” I’ve attached this page to this email but I don’t know
how this list will treat attachments. This page also lists variations from other tribes such as “sagdášį” and “sagdášį” (Santee-Sisseton), “šagláša” (Teton), “Ságanasch” (Omaha), etc.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Based on Maximilian’s spelling for sound, it could roughly be said as “sahng-gah-nash.”</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">No matter how I try, I can’t see any real similarities between “(le)s anglois” and “Sanganasch” in my mind. I can (just!) see “(le)<u>s ang</u>lois” in “<u>Sang</u>anasch”
(underlined parts).</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">So I spoke with a friend of mine who lives in France. He was originally from here but has lived there over 20 years now. He also couldn’t see how “(le)s anglois” could
be shoehorned into “Sanganasch.” Since he is fluent in French I asked for his take and he did mention what he thought it might be and that was “sale ganache” which he said is a sort of slang for dirty face, ugly face, detestable, untrustworthy, and several
more unflattering terms. He said the “ganache” was (aside from the dessert!) something along the lines of a lower jaw of a 4-legged animal. But he noted the lack of an “L” in the term and I told him from an Otoe-Missouria perspective, there isn’t an “L”
(as in Larry) sound really but the rolling “r” sort of covers that area and that it might be possible that it was just skipped or contracted over time. He also mentioned “sang” (blood) as well.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">I have no idea how accurate this term could be. But if it is, it would be very funny to have the French somewhat badmouthing their English (and maybe Spanish) competitors
by giving the tribes a less than favorable translation for them. But for this to be true, this “slang” would have to have been in use almost 200 years ago and I have no idea if it was. Plus it looks like its use would have had to have been pretty wide-spread
since other tribes had a similar term.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">So that is what I am looking at. Any feedback, any avenues to check out, any sources, etc. would be greatly appreciated. If this is some form of “(le)s anglois”, I’d just
like to know how. Or if anyone can tell me if I am getting close.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Also, if it helps, James Owen Dorsey had the term “ra-kra-she” for “Englishman.”</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:14.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Sky Campbell, B. A.</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Language Director</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Otoe-Missouria Tribe</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">580-723-4466 ext. 111</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><a href="mailto:sky@omtribe.org" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">sky@omtribe.org</span></a></span></p>
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<Handbook of North American Indians, Vol. 13, page 109.pdf></span></p>
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