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I have an alternative view on Western Muskogean 'nine'.<br>
<br>
Chickasaw chákka'li / chakká'li 'to be nine' (cognate to the Choctaw
forms Bob cites) seems quite clearly to be a g[eminate]-grade form
(i.e. ablauted aspectual form) of a verb chakali 'to be pregnant,
great with child', which my Chickasaw teacher knows but regards as
Choctaw.<br>
<br>
You might not immediately see a connection between 'nine', and
'pregnant', but a variety of languages express 'nine' as something
like 'just about ready to reach (something, i.e. ten)', so I believe
that these two verbs are in fact related. This suggests that the WM
forms have their own etymology and thus aren't likely to be loans. <br>
<br>
Bob is correct that -li can be a verb ending in these languages
(e.g. in chokma 'to be good' / chokmali 'to make good'). I don't
know any evidence that the -li in 'to be nine' is segmentable,
however, unless one believes that all verb-final li's are
segmentable. <br>
<br>
Pam <br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/9/13 5:48 PM, Rankin, Robert L.
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:5E87B4AFA471B543884CD3128A7C8CC62370CA0E@EXCH10-MBX-05.home.ku.edu"
type="cite">
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<div style="direction: ltr;font-family: Arial;color:
#000000;font-size: 14pt;"><font size="4"><span style="color:
rgb(31, 73, 125);">> I recall John Koontz mentioning some
other forms to me – items for ‘cucumber’ from French
concombre, and also ttapuska ‘student, teacher’ which is
shared by Dhegiha and Pawnee.</span><span style="color:
rgb(31, 73, 125);"> I don’t know about ‘hau’ but Comanche
‘aho’ (hello) is supposed to come from Kiowa.<br>
<br>
Allan Taylor did a comprehensive "how" count at one point.
I don't think he ever published results though. 'Cucumber'
begins with
<i>kko </i><font size="4">the <font size="4">PSI root for
'gourd', so it may be a borrowing or it may be a
coincidence again. 'Pig<font size="4">' is definitely
from French.</font></font></font><br>
</span></font>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="4"><span
style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="4"><span
style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">> Shankka also
has reflexes in Western Muskogean (Choctaw and
Chickasaw)</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="4"><br>
<span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D"><font face="Arial" size="4">Maybe. The
word i<font size="4">s</font></font></span><font
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</xml><![endif]--></span>
<i>čákkáàli</i> and -<i>ali</i> is an ending all
right<font size="4">.</font> It is borrowed into
Biloxi as
</font><font face="Arial" size="4"><i>čk<font size="4">ane
</font></i><font size="4"><font size="4">I think.
<br>
</font></font></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="4"><font
size="4"><font size="4"><br>
</font></font></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="4"><font
size="4"><font size="4">Note the Tutelo and Ofo
terms<font size="4">.
</font></font></font></font><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Arial;
mso-bidi-font-weight:bold">Tutelo has
</span><i><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Arial;
mso-bidi-font-weight:bold">ḳasą́hka</span></i><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Arial;
mso-bidi-font-weight:bold">, so it is definitely in
the
<i>shankka</i> zone. </span><font face="Arial"
size="4"><font size="4"><font size="4"><br>
</font></font></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="4"><font
size="4"><font size="4"><br>
</font></font></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="4"><font
size="4"><font size="4">Ofo
</font></font></font><font face="Arial" size="4"><i><b><span
style="color: black;">kíštatǝška</span></b></i><i
style="mso-bidi-font-style:normal"><span
style="color: black;"> Sw
</span></i><span style="color: black;"><i>kĭ´ctatạcga</i>
— nine;<i style="mso-bidi-font-style:normal">
</i>p. 325. Some words where </span></font><font
face="Arial" size="4"><i><span style="color: black;">š</span></i><span
style="color: black;"><font size="4"> is expected
turn up with
</font></span></font><font face="Arial" size="4"><i><span
style="color: black;">št</span></i><span
style="color: black;"><font size="4"> instead. So
this may contain some variant of
<i>shankka</i> somehow. <font size="4">The
prefix with <i>k</i> mirrors Tutelo to an
extent but the sound cor<font size="4">respondences
aren't quite right.</font></font></font></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4"><font face="Arial">So
this pecul<font size="4">iar term for '9' turns up
in Chiwere, Dhegiha, Tutelo and maybe Ofo. There
are partial look-alikes in
<font size="4">Western Muskogean and Biloxi. So
it's not just around the Great Lakes region in
Siouan, but there's no trace in the Northwest of
Siouan.</font></font></font></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4"><font face="Arial"><font
size="4"><font size="4"><font size="4">Bob</font></font></font></font></font><br>
<font face="Arial" size="4"><span style="color: black;"></span></font><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;
font-family:Arial"></span></p>
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<br>
</div>
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</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Pamela Munro,
Distinguished Professor, Linguistics, UCLA
UCLA Box 951543
Los Angeles, CA 90095-1543
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.linguistics.ucla.edu/people/munro/munro.htm">http://www.linguistics.ucla.edu/people/munro/munro.htm</a>
</pre>
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