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<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">Ø<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> 

</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Does this answer your question?</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Yes.  And thank you especially for the more complicated answer!<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">You are right about the Chiwere claim; the one that came up recently I think is specifically about Otoe.  Apparently the -wi particle is supposed to imply two

 actors when used in the third person.  But this is not attested in older sources, so the question is whether that usage is a recent development, or a misunderstanding by recent linguists, or whether the older linguists just missed it.  I thought getting a

 Hoo</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">cąk</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> perspective might help in evaluating the claim.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I don’t have much to add to that other than in connection with the two different positionals,

</span><i><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">jee/jąą</span></i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">, that you mention.  In Omaha, in fact, we do have two ‘standing’ positionals, t</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">ʰ</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">e

 and t</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">ʰ</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">aⁿ.  The first is used for inanimates, and the second (rarely) for animate beings.  If I recall the sound shift

 rules I once learned from John and Bob correctly, MVS */t</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">ʰ</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">/ should stay /t</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">ʰ</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">/

 in Omaha and go to /j/ in Hoo</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">cąk</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">, so I think those two pairs should probably be cognate.  Bob might

 be better able to comment on this.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Best,<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Rory<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu]

<b>On Behalf Of </b>Iren Hartmann<br>

<b>Sent:</b> Monday, September 09, 2013 2:17 PM<br>

<b>To:</b> SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU<br>

<b>Subject:</b> Re: Locatives and wa- problems.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Hi Rory,<br>

<br>

the quick and simple answer to your question is no. There is no interchangeability between the two PL markers in Hoocąk.

<i>-wi</i> is not used to mark 3rd PL subject. However, I recall that this has been claimed for Chiwere, maybe there it is indeed possible.

<br>

The more complicated answer to your question is, that there is one sort of exception that I know of:<br>

For all full verbs 3rd PL subject is <i>-ire</i> in Hoocąk. And this is also true for all auxiliaries, except in the case of the positionals. With them

<i>-ire</i> cannot be used, they inflect irregularly anyway.. There the third PL form is always

<i>nąąk</i> (long version of the sitting/neutral positional), so that position is neutralized. However, there is a very curious form that one encounters every so often, which is

<i>hająwi</i> = they exist. It consists of <i>ha-</i>(collective marker)<i> jee</i> (vertical positional, sometimes used as existential) and

<i>-wi</i> (PL). This would be the only case in which you could get a -wi for 3rd PL subject. BUT it does NOT alternate with

<i>-ire</i>, and it has to co-occur with the collective. I think there might have been two diferent "positionals"

<i>jee/jąą </i>at some point and they got mostly conflated nowadays. This rare form here is a reflex of the one that was only used with animates and it is still in some use as an existential (hence also the curious nasalization). So really there is NO alternation

 bewteen <i>-ire </i>and <i>-wi</i> in Hoocąk ever.<br>

Does this answer your question?<br>

<br>

Best,<br>

Iren<br>

</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><br>

<br>

One other question that has come up that you might want to comment on:  Does Hooc</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">ą</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">k ever use the -wi

 particle in the third person?  I thought a long time ago I had read that in the third person plural, either -wi or -ire could occur, but with somewhat different meanings.  Is there anything to that, or is my memory mistaken?</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>

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