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<body class='hmmessage'><div dir='ltr'>No, this is correct for the emphatic free standing personal pronouns, there is only a distinction between 1st & 2nd person vs. 3rd person, there is no distinction made in number. These are highly underspecified. Number distinctions are only made on the verb in Hoocąk never on nouns or pronouns.<br><br>- Iren<br><br><div><hr id="stopSpelling">Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 07:27:58 -0500<br>From: jgoodtracks@GMAIL.COM<br>Subject: Re: Locatives and wa- problems.<br>To: SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu<br><br>
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<div><font color="#0000ff" face="Times New Roman" size="4">Irene:</font></div><font color="#0000ff" face="Times New Roman" size="4"></font></div>
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<div style="FONT:10pt Tahoma;"><font color="#0000ff" face="Times New Roman" size="4">How is it that 2nd SG & Pl and 3rd
SG & Pl are the same? Did you mean to write it that way,
or is it a typo?</font></div>
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<div style=""><b>From:</b> <a title="wipamankere@HOTMAIL.COM" href="mailto:wipamankere@HOTMAIL.COM">Iren Hartmann</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, September 10, 2013 4:22 AM</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a title="SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu" href="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu">SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</a> </div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: Locatives and wa- problems.</div></div></div>
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<div dir="ltr">Bob,<br><br>oh, I see, sorry, you were not talking about pronominal
affixes really (at least synchronically), but about the emphatic free standing
personal pronouns of Hoocąk. They are:<br><br>1st SG & PL<i> nee</i><br>2nd
SG & PL <i>nee</i><br>3rd SG & PL <i>ee</i><br><br>Most likely they were
indeed derived from the demonstrative<i> ee </i>(retained in the 3rd person due
to zero inflection) with a prefix <i>nį-</i> in the first and second person
(nowadays speakers only use the contracted form <i>nee</i>, not <i>nį’e</i> any
more, but some older speakers can still understand it). <br><br>I’m curious,
have the free standing pronouns in the other Siouan languages also been derived
from seemingly inflected demonstratives?<br><br>Best,<br>Iren<br><br>
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Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2013 23:01:37 +0000<br>From: rankin@KU.EDU<br>Subject: Re:
Locatives and wa- problems.<br>To: SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu<br><br>
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<div style="FONT-SIZE:14pt;FONT-FAMILY:Arial;COLOR:#000000;DIRECTION:ltr;"><font face="Arial" size="4">Iren,<br><br>Yes, <i>nįį</i> is the portmanteau for I/you
corresponding to Dakotan <i>chi</i>- and Dhegiha <i>wi-</i>. That's not
the </font><font face="Arial" size="4"><i>nį </i><font size="4">I'm talking
about. We corresponded about this a couple of months ago. In the
Zeps and Miner dictionaries there is a </font></font><font face="Arial" size="4"><font size="4"><font face="Arial" size="4"><i>nįe</i> that is translated
simply <font size="4">'I'. Like most disjunctive pronominals in Siouan it is
attached to <i>?e</i></font> as a prefix. I'll need to go back through our
correspondence or the dictionaries and double check the form.<br><br><font size="4">Bob</font><br></font></font></font>
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<div dir="ltr"><br>As for loans, I think there were a handful of loans from
Algonquian that Miner already marked in his field lexicon of Hoocąk as such. I
remember <i>haramįhe</i> (or <i>haramehi</i>) ’week, (Christian) cross’ was one
such case.. here is another good reason to get all the dictionaries into good
digital shape (also the Algonquian ones), so we can search more efficiently for
potential loan words, I think that would be an interesting project..<br><br>As
for what was written about nį- being first person actor inflection, this is not
entirely true, it is first person A acting on 2nd person U, described in the
past as a portmanteau of ha- and nį-. (In the past this has been described as
being long nįį-, but this I have not found to be true, it is always short just
as the 2nd Undergoer pronominal affix.) Doesn’t Lakotha have something like
this? Also, we saw something similar for Chiwere at this year’s conference in
the presentation about causatives, only there it was theorized that the nį-
just expressed the 2nd U and the 1st A remained unexpressed.. Or am I missing
something here?<br><br>Also there was the question of the pluralization of the
different person forms, the Hoocąk paradigm (for class 1 conjugations) looks
like this:<br>S/A (subjects, actor)<br><br>1 excl SG / PL: ha- / ha- ...
-wi<br>du / 1 incl: hį- / hį-... -wi <br>2 SG/ PL: ra- /ra- ...-wi<br>3 SG /
PL: [zero] / -ire<br><br>I hope this helps.<br>Best,<br>Iren<br><span class="ecxApple-style-span" style="FONT-SIZE:15px;"><br>> This is the first
I've heard that Hochunk <i>ní </i>for first person is from Algonquian -- what
would the word be expected to be in Hochunk, based on Chiwere and
Proto-Siouan?<br></span>
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<div><br><font face="Arial" size="4">Proto-Siouan for 1st sg.agentive was probably
*<i>wa-</i>. It has allomorphs *<i>b-, p-, m-. </i>and in
Chiwere-Winnebago evolved into <i>*ha-.</i> In Dhegiha <i>*a-</i>.
There is no trace of any 1st person <i>ni-</i> in Siouan anywhere except
in Hochunk (Winnebago). </font><br><br><span class="ecxApple-style-span" style="FONT-SIZE:15px;"><br></span></div></div></div></div></div>
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