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<div style="direction: ltr;font-family: Arial;color: #000000;font-size: 14pt;"><span style="font-size:13.5pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">> There is no "schwa" there phonologically. That's confusing phonology with phonetics. So of course
the GL or BL syllable gets accent if there's another prefix. But what I'm saying is that the CL syllable gets the accent anyway.</span><span style="font-size:14.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:black"></span>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="4"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">> First, I think the *BL cluster is underlyingly a syncopation of the first syllable of *wv-rv in Proto-Siouan, correct? So *wv-rv => *w-rv => *BLv ?</span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="4"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><font size="4">Yes. That's standard Siouan historical phonology that everybody agrees on.</font><br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="4"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">> Next, I assume Proto-Siouan had second syllable accent. Then *wv-rv-cv is accented *wv-rV-cv. This syncopates to *w-rV-cv => *BLV-cv, with accent on the vowel immediately
following L, aka *r, where it always was. Here, I think we’re on the same page, and you’ve shown good evidence from Dhegiha to support this.</span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="4"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><font size="4">That's unless the initial syllable V is long, in which case it gets the accent. But that's not applicable in these instances because if the initial syllable
had been long it wouldn't have undergone syncope.</font><br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="4"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">> Now what happens when we take the same sequence and add a preceding syllable: *cv-wv-rv-cv? By second syllable accent, the vowel between *w and *r gets the accent:</span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="4"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> *cv-wV-rv-c<font size="4">v</font></span></font></p>
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<font face="Arial" size="4"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="4"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><font size="4"><font size="4">No, th<font size="4">e *w<font size="4">a- or animate *wi- prefixes only really occurred
<font size="4">word<font size="4">-initially as far as I know,(or as far as any of us has analyzed, I think). So your scenario may<font size="4">be
</font>d<font size="4">idn't really occur. </font></font></font></font></font></font><br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="4"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">> If the second syllable with the accent is syncopated out: *cv-wV-rv-cv => *cv-w-rv-cv => *cv-BLv-cv, I don’t see how the “BL syllable” can get the accent, because there
is no vowel there to accent. I can think of just three possibilities here:</span></font></p>
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<font face="Arial" size="4"></font><font face="Arial" size="4"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><span style=""><font size="4">>
</font>1.<span style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -moz-font-feature-settings: normal; -moz-font-language-override: normal;">
</span></span></span><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Accent shifts to the morphophonological third syllable: *cv-wV-rv-cv => *cv-w-rV-cv => *cv-BLV-cv<br>
<br>
<font size="4">Can only happen <font size="4">under</font> the Winnebago accent shift. Other Siouan languages don't seem to allow it with the possible exception of Dorsey's really screwed up accentual patterns in Biloxi. In any event, there are no know cases.</font><br>
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<font face="Arial" size="4"></font><font face="Arial" size="4"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><span style=""><font size="4">>
</font>2.<span style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -moz-font-feature-settings: normal; -moz-font-language-override: normal;">
</span></span></span><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Accent shifts to the first syllable: *cv-wV-rv-cv => *cV-w-rv-cv => *cV-BLv-cv<br>
<br>
<font size="4">If the 1st syllable was long it always had the acc<font size="4">ent (without having to posit a shift).</font></font><br>
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<font face="Arial" size="4"></font><font face="Arial" size="4"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><span style=""><font size="4">>
</font>3.<span style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -moz-font-feature-settings: normal; -moz-font-language-override: normal;">
</span></span></span><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">This can’t happen, because if the intervening syllable is accented, syncopation does not occur.<br>
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<font size="4">Ye<font size="4">s</font>, I think that's it. You're right out on the cutting edge of reconstructing proto-Siouan phonology here, and I don't think we have any cases of your vulnerable syllable structure
<font size="4">to try to explain. As far as anyone has gotten there weren't instances of derivational *wa/wi that had prefixes. Locative prefixes, *i<font size="4">i-/aa-/o- were originally postpositions on preceding NPs
<font size="4">that were later reanalyzed as verb prefixes (as I recall Randy has instances of them still functioning that way in Crow.)
</font></font><br>
<br>
1st singular <font size="4">*wa + /r/ <font size="4">clusters are different in that they are suppo<font size="4">rted by active morphophonemic alternations all along, but they behave the same way until the patient and locative enclitics
<font size="4">became prefixes creating sequences such as you describe above. By that t<font size="4">ime the BL
<font size="4">1st si<font size="4">ng. </font>clusters were established and didn't revert to /wa-r/</font></font></font></font></font></font>
</font></font></span></font><font face="Arial" size="4"></font><font face="Arial" size="4"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">sequences.<br>
<br>
<font size="4">The GL c<font size="4">lusters have a more complex history since they interact with all the damned K<font size="4">I morphemes and generally (always??) arise through inflection rather than derivation. I
<font size="4">don't have time to even think about than can of worms.</font></font></font></font><br>
</span></font><font face="Arial" size="4"> </font>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="4"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">> Do you have a sense of which of these three possibilities should happen in the *cv-wV-rv-cv case? Or if the outcome is something else that I haven’t been able to think
of, can you describe what that is<font size="4">?</font></span></font></p>
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<font face="Arial" size="4"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="4"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><font size="4"><font size="4">If you can't think of it, I'm sure I haven<font size="4">'t. I think the only thing<font size="4"> you have left out of the discussion of
this is the co<font size="4">mplexity of inflection vs. derivation, and that's better left for the next generation of historical Siouan<font size="4">ists, if there is one. Suffice it to say that there ARE additional problems with initial syllable unaccented
short vowel syncope. It only seems to have happened <font size="4">with *wV- syllables.</font></font></font></font></font></font></font></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="4"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><font size="4"><font size="4"><font size="4"><font size="4"><font size="4"><font size="4"><font size="4"><font size="4">Bob</font></font></font></font></font></font></font><br>
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