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<div style="direction: ltr;font-family: Arial;color: #000000;font-size: 14pt;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">> I’ve been poking around a bit about the number nine and so far I haven’t found anything to back
up the possibility of “grerabri” being related to “grebr¹.” So I thought I’d try to see what Hoc¹k has for this. Note that I have almost no experience with Hoc¹k so this is very iffy. But I found something interesting (which may be old news to you guys
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:Wingdings; color:#1F497D">J</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">).<br>
<br>
<font size="4"><font face="Arial">I'm going to leave the <font size="4">H<font size="4">och<font size="4">unk numerals to the Hochunk specialists, although I suspect your "one-not" analysis in<font size="4"> terms of finger<font size="4"> counting is correct.<br>
<br>
<font size="4"><i>GrerabriN </i><font size="4">'</font>8's not related to<font size="4">
</font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></span><i><font size="4"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">grebr¹ '10'.
</span></span></font></i><font size="4"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><font size="4">It's related to
<i>rabriN</i> '3'. 'Seven' should be <i>greno<font size="4">Nba</font></i></font>, or something close to that,
<font size="4">if memory serves. <font size="4">Systems in which 6 through 1<font size="4">0
<font size="4">contain the numbers 1 though 5 are called <i>quinary</i> (or five-base) counting systems.
<font size="4">In Dhegiha and Chiwere systems the wo<font size="4">rds for 'seven' and 'eight' usually contain the words for 'two' and 'three' respectively<font size="4">, with a prefix.
<font size="4">The prefix is <i>ppe:<font size="4">-</font></i><font size="4"> in Dhegiha and
<i>gre:-</i> in <font size="4">Chiwere. Both prefixes have long vowels. So </font>
</font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></span></span></font><font size="4"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><font size="4"><font size="4"><font size="4"><font size="4"><font size="4"><font size="4"><font size="4"><font size="4"><font size="4"><font size="4"><font size="4"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><font size="4"><font size="4"><font size="4"><font size="4"><font size="4">Dhegiha
and Chiwere systems are <i>partial quinary</i> counting systems. This leaves 'nine' odd<font size="4">-man-out, and various Siouan languages deal with it in different ways, as we've seen.<br>
<br>
<font size="4">Bob</font><br>
</font></font></font></font></font></font></span></span></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></span></span></font>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">I’ve been going through Maximilian and Long’s Otoe language lists lately and thought I’d look there for some Hoc¹k numbers to see if my idea can be backed
up there. Here is what Long has for nine:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">jhink-ich-os-co-ne</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Nothing at all like “sanke.” So based on what’s being said here, I decided to look at what he has for one:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">jhing-ke-de</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Looks to me like “one” is definitely part of “nine” here. I’m not sure what “(i)ch-o” is doing in there but the “s-co-ne” sure looks like “skunyi” (not)
to me. So I’m wondering if this is “one – not – (doing whatever)”. An EXTREMELY tentative thought I am having right now is maybe the (i)ch-o might be something along the lines of “ah-kutch-ah” which Henry Merrell has as “the other side” (that was his spelling
as well). If so, that would be “one – not – the other side” which perhaps might refer to the idea of holding one finger down on one hand. But like I said, that is EXTREMELY tentative.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">So I thought, “Ooh! Maybe eight follows suit!” But I was stopped cold with eight being:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">no-wunk</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">I have absolute no idea what is going on there. It is nothing like “grerabri.” I can see how the rest of the numbers match Otoe-Missouria (with the obligatory
shifts and differences, of course) but not eight (or nine). So now I am wondering if Hoc¹k kept the original form of nine but picked up their eight from somewhere else.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Has anyone else seen or worked with this form of eight before? Are there any theories as to its origins?</span></p>
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