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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Thank you! I’d done a quick search to see if someone did post the Hoocąk term for nine and didn’t see one but a double-check after your mention of it shows I must have flew right over it. My apologies </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D'>J</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Sky<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Iren Hartmann<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, September 17, 2013 2:51 AM<br><b>To:</b> SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: Number 'nine' in Chiwere. No. 1-10 in Hoocąk<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Hi Sky & Bob,<br><br>I had already posted what number nine was in Hoocąk before this question came up, so I’m a bit confused. Anyway, here are for your reference numbers 1 through 10, 20 & 30 in Hoocąk<br><br></span><span style='font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>1 hižąkiira [= one(hižą)-only(kiira)]<br>2 nųųp<br>3 taanį<br>4 joop<br>5 saacą<br>6 hakewe<br>7 šaagowį<br>8 haruwąk<br>9 hižąkicųšgųnį [= hižą(one)-ki-cųųšgųnį(be.without)]<br>10 kerepąnąižą [= kerepąną(10)-hižą(one)]</span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><br></span><span style='font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>20 kerepąnąnųųp (2 10s)<br>30 kerepąnątaanį (3 10s)<br>etc.</span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><br><br>Those numbers from the old source you cited, Sky, seem to be somewhat corrupted.<br><br>Best,<br>Iren<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center id=stopSpelling></span></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2013 21:38:39 +0000<br>From: <a href="mailto:rankin@KU.EDU">rankin@KU.EDU</a><br>Subject: Re: Number 'nine' in Chiwere.<br>To: <a href="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu">SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>> I’ve been poking around a bit about the number nine and so far I haven’t found anything to back up the possibility of “grerabri” being related to “grebrą.” So I thought I’d try to see what Hocąk has for this. Note that I have almost no experience with Hocąk so this is very iffy. But I found something interesting (which may be old news to you guys </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D'>J</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>).<br><br></span><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I'm going to leave the Hochunk numerals to the Hochunk specialists, although I suspect your "one-not" analysis in terms of finger counting is correct.<br><br><i>GrerabriN </i>'8's not related to <i>grebrą '10'. </i>It's related to <i>rabriN</i> '3'. 'Seven' should be <i>grenoNba</i>, or something close to that, if memory serves. Systems in which 6 through 10 contain the numbers 1 though 5 are called <i>quinary</i> (or five-base) counting systems. In Dhegiha and Chiwere systems the words for 'seven' and 'eight' usually contain the words for 'two' and 'three' respectively, with a prefix. The prefix is <i>ppe:-</i> in Dhegiha and <i>gre:-</i> in Chiwere. Both prefixes have long vowels. So Dhegiha and Chiwere systems are <i>partial quinary</i> counting systems. This leaves 'nine' odd-man-out, and various Siouan languages deal with it in different ways, as we've seen.<br><br>Bob</span><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I’ve been going through Maximilian and Long’s Otoe language lists lately and thought I’d look there for some Hocąk numbers to see if my idea can be backed up there. Here is what Long has for nine:</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>jhink-ich-os-co-ne</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Nothing at all like “sanke.” So based on what’s being said here, I decided to look at what he has for one:</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>jhing-ke-de</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Looks to me like “one” is definitely part of “nine” here. I’m not sure what “(i)ch-o” is doing in there but the “s-co-ne” sure looks like “skunyi” (not) to me. So I’m wondering if this is “one – not – (doing whatever)”. An EXTREMELY tentative thought I am having right now is maybe the (i)ch-o might be something along the lines of “ah-kutch-ah” which Henry Merrell has as “the other side” (that was his spelling as well). If so, that would be “one – not – the other side” which perhaps might refer to the idea of holding one finger down on one hand. But like I said, that is EXTREMELY tentative.</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>So I thought, “Ooh! Maybe eight follows suit!” But I was stopped cold with eight being:</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>no-wunk</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I have absolute no idea what is going on there. It is nothing like “grerabri.” I can see how the rest of the numbers match Otoe-Missouria (with the obligatory shifts and differences, of course) but not eight (or nine). So now I am wondering if Hocąk kept the original form of nine but picked up their eight from somewhere else.</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Has anyone else seen or worked with this form of eight before? Are there any theories as to its origins?</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>