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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>The term “ñita” doesn’t ring a bell with me beyond something along the lines of being at water or in the direction of water. You see it in names quite a bit (IE “Coming from the Water”).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>If Kaw has the underlying “gr” as both you and Justin mention, then that would certainly lend itself to Maximilian’s “gron.” And if that is the case, I supposed it would be conceivable that our modern “rugri” (lightning) could have originally been pronounced “gr” (“grugri” perhaps?). At any rate, I am still curious as to if the “gri” portion refers to “returning home” or something along those lines.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>I’ve attached Dorsey’s paper for those interested. My mention of “Lu” is on page 84. Justin, you mentioned “hawk.” Dorsey also mentions on that same page about a sacred bag of gray hawk skin where he says, “These objects are kept by a man of the Lu gens, who is forbidden to open the bag, the gray hawk being the taboo of his gens, who are known as Gray Hawk people.”<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Sky Campbell, B. A.<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Language Director<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Otoe-Missouria Tribe<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>580-723-4466 ext. 111<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>sky@omtribe.org<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Rory Larson<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, October 28, 2013 3:49 PM<br><b>To:</b> SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: Looking for "thunder" and "lightning" information<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'>Omaha has <i>iⁿgròⁿ-huttoⁿ</i> for ‘thunder’, apparently meaning ‘the cry of an <i>iⁿgròⁿ</i>’. Outside of that context, <i>iⁿgròⁿ</i> is the base word for a ‘cat’, though in this context I think it may refer to a thunderbird. By itself, <i>gròⁿ</i> seems to have a variety of meanings in Omaha, including ‘grumbling’ or ‘cussing’. I suppose thunder could be conceived as somebody upstairs grumbling about something.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'>Omaha also has <i>u-grà’a</i> for a ‘war-whoop’. I suspect this is a separate term.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'>Bob can confirm, but I believe /l/ in Kaw represents an underlying /gr/ in the original (MVS) language. So from the Otoe point of view, the Lu clan should probably be read as the “Gru” clan.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'>I doubt that <i>waxo</i> would be related to <i>wahką</i>. But they may mean about the same thing. In Omaha, the word for ‘sacred’ or ‘holy’ is <i>xubè</i>, presumably from <i>*xo</i> (‘holy’) + <i>*pe</i> (some kind of determiner). In IOM, does <i>ñita</i> mean anything by itself?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'>Good questions. I’ll look forward to seeing what other answers you fish up. :)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'>Rory<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'>(Oops, Justin already replied. So I guess Lu should represent <i>*gro(ⁿ)</i>, which presumably just means either ‘thunder’ or ‘thunderbird’ in MVS.)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Siouan Linguistics [<a href="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu">mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Campbell, Sky<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, October 28, 2013 2:21 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU">SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Looking for "thunder" and "lightning" information<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I’m looking for some feedback (and cognates if applicable) on some terms for “thunder” and “lightning.”<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>For the thunder term, I am trying to find information on Maximilian’s terms for thunder which are “gron-gron” and “wahkonda-gron-gron”. I am trying to figure out what his term “gron” is. Maximilian notes the “on” is pronounced as it is in French which would be our nasal “ą”. So this term would be “grą” or the reduplicated version “grągrą.” Any suggestions on what that may be? I have two theories in mind and both come from other terms from Maximilian. First is his term “gra-ah” (gra’a) which he has as shout or “give the warhoop.” The other is his term “gro<span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>ͣ</span>n-rä” (email formatting won’t let me show the accented “á” above the “o” like the source has it) which would be “grąre” which he translates as “great.” Those are just speculations right now. It should also be noted that he gives lightning as “wáhkonda-gron” (same as thunder but without the reduplication). And it may be a stretch but I’m wondering if this “grą” is somehow related to our current “k’o” for thunder.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Any thoughts?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Maximilian’s term for lightning seems to be a variant of thunder so figuring out thunder will help with lightning. So my question about lightning isn’t about that variant but another. Nowadays we have:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>rugri/rugrį<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Then I was reading Dorsey’s “The Religions of Siouan Tribes” and he notes, “The Kansa tell the following: During the first thunder-storm of the year, the Lu or Thunder-Being people put a quantity of green cedar on a fire, making a dense smoke.” With “Lu”, he is talking about a Kaw clan. And with “r” and “l” being interchangeable in many materials, it has me thinking of our “rugri” and has me wondering if our “rugri” perhaps says “thunder beings returned home (or here?)” (ru/lu – thunder beings + gri (return home).<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Does anyone have any information on that?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>And one more thing while I’m thinking about it. In the same paper I mentioned above by Dorsey, he is a big fan of “Wakąnda” being translated as “great serpent” (waką + dana) although he does go through a few other possibilities. Still, “great serpent” seems to be the translation he likes the best. I can see how he came to that conclusion. But he also notes that “In the Dakota language, wa-kan’ means mysterious, wonderful, incomprehensible;” And in “Early Western Travels – 1748-1846, Vol. 24 (pages 223-224), Maximilian (via Thwaites) writes, “This name is composed of two words; and, therefore, is not to be written as one. The first word, uakan, less correctly wakan, is the expression for god, divine, supernatural; the second, tanka, not tunka, means great.”<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>So that got me thinking about our term waxoñita/xoñita for sacred/holy and I am curious if that “waxo-“ is related to the “waką” that Dorsey mentions and if the idea is really closer to the “great mysterious one” rather than “great serpent.” Or do they both mean the same thing and it just depends on what sense you are using? I can only think of one other instance off the top of my head where “xo-“ is used by itself to indicate sacred and that is Jimm Goodtracks’ translation of William Whitman’s term “mixoge” (berdache…mi- (female) + xo- (sacred) + -ge (quality of)).<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>This is probably a loaded question but I’m interested in any information anyone might have on this.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt'>Sky Campbell, B. A.<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal>Language Director<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Otoe-Missouria Tribe<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>580-723-4466 ext. 111<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><a href="mailto:sky@omtribe.org">sky@omtribe.org</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'><br> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><br>
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