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<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; COLOR: #0000ff; FONT-SIZE: 14pt">
<DIV><FONT size=4>Generally, you can think that “-da” will be “at/ there.”
I haven’t come upon many uses of the “-ta” (big; great).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt tahoma">
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=sky@OMTRIBE.ORG
href="mailto:sky@OMTRIBE.ORG">Campbell, Sky</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, October 30, 2013 12:30 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu
href="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu">SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: Looking for "thunder" and "lightning"
information</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none">
<DIV class=WordSection1>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">I know they are different but
what I’m referring to is when I see a word like “ñita”, it is hard to determine
if the –ta refers to the locative or great/big if there isn’t a context
available.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 14pt">Sky
Campbell, B. A.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></B></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">Language
Director<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">Otoe-Missouria
Tribe<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">580-723-4466 ext.
111<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d">sky@omtribe.org<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Siouan Linguistics
[mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Jimm G.
GoodTracks<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, October 29, 2013 6:32 PM<BR><B>To:</B>
SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: Looking for "thunder" and
"lightning" information<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p></o:p> </P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt">I
am thinking that you are reading into some aspects as having a similarity/
relationship, when in fact, they are independent of the other. It is kind
of like the various meanings/ uses of the element “wa-.” Somewhere
in a past EM, is Bob’s discussion and comparison of “ta” (big/
large).</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 14pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 14pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt">splash:
gijax (Hochank); gijaxe (IOM)</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 14pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 14pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="BACKGROUND: whitesmoke" class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A
title=sky@OMTRIBE.ORG href="mailto:sky@OMTRIBE.ORG">Campbell, Sky</A>
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="BACKGROUND: whitesmoke" class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Sent:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">
Tuesday, October 29, 2013 8:43 AM<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="BACKGROUND: whitesmoke" class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">To:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A
title=SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu
href="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu">SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</A>
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="BACKGROUND: whitesmoke" class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Subject:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Re:
Looking for "thunder" and "lightning"
information<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">Jimm, sometimes it is hard to
tell if that suffix is from “ida” (there) or is short for “dana”
(great/very/etc.). I know that Alanson Skinner has the term
“Nita<SUP>n</SUP>ga” as “Great Waves” as a term for the ocean. So for a
term like Wakąnda, it is tough to see which one it is although to date all the
sources I’ve seen suggest it is a contracted “dana” (tąnga/tąnka) although your
dictionary uses it as the locative.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">Rory, the idea of “hand” for
“ru-“ is an interesting one. I’ll add it to the list of possibilities
</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: wingdings; COLOR: #1f497d">J</SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d">. Another idea I thought of involving instrumental
prefixes that may be “out there” is the idea of the possessive “gra-“ merging
with “ra-“ (by mouth) which has me wondering about the “warhoop” that Maximilian
mentioned with his term “gra-ah.” This makes me think of the verb ‘ų to
maybe say “gra‘ų” (doing something by means of his own mouth?? also looks
sort of like “he made his own” as well) and has me wondering if this could
account for the nasal “gron” that Maximilian mentioned.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">Iren, does anything specific in
your term “rujax” refer to sound, something loud, or anything along those
lines?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">And just for fun, here are a
couple terms by Agent Albert Green for lightning:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">peje wagaxe – fire writing (he
spelled it “Pa-cha-Wah-goh-hah”)<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">and<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">Wakąnda peje wagaxe
(Wah-con-dah-Pacha-wah-go-hah)<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">He translated that last one as
“fire writing by the Great Spirit.”<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 14pt">Sky
Campbell, B. A.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></B></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">Language
Director<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">Otoe-Missouria
Tribe<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">580-723-4466 ext.
111<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d"><A
href="mailto:sky@omtribe.org">sky@omtribe.org</A><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">
Siouan Linguistics [<A
href="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu">mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</A>] <B>On
Behalf Of </B>Jimm G. GoodTracks<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, October 28, 2013 7:00
PM<BR><B>To:</B> <A
href="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu">SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</A><BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: Looking for "thunder" and "lightning"
information<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt">ñíta
= ocean “big water”. It was a year or so now that Bob R addressed this old
root “ta” and provided an extensive comparative listing of how it is found in
all the Siouan languages. I believe I may have merged his discussion into
my Dictionary. The dictionary also contains an in depth discussion of the
relationship between “wakan (snake)” and “Wakanda (God/ Thunders)”.</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 14pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 14pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="BACKGROUND: whitesmoke" class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A
title=sky@OMTRIBE.ORG href="mailto:sky@OMTRIBE.ORG">Campbell, Sky</A>
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="BACKGROUND: whitesmoke" class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Sent:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">
Monday, October 28, 2013 4:15 PM<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="BACKGROUND: whitesmoke" class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">To:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A
title=SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu
href="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu">SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</A>
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="BACKGROUND: whitesmoke" class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Subject:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Re:
Looking for "thunder" and "lightning"
information<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">The term “ñita” doesn’t ring a
bell with me beyond something along the lines of being at water or in the
direction of water. You see it in names quite a bit (IE “Coming from the
Water”).<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">If Kaw has the underlying “gr”
as both you and Justin mention, then that would certainly lend itself to
Maximilian’s “gron.” And if that is the case, I supposed it would be
conceivable that our modern “rugri” (lightning) could have originally been
pronounced “gr” (“grugri” perhaps?). At any rate, I am still curious as to
if the “gri” portion refers to “returning home” or something along those
lines.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">I’ve attached Dorsey’s paper for
those interested. My mention of “Lu” is on page 84. Justin, you
mentioned “hawk.” Dorsey also mentions on that same page about a sacred
bag of gray hawk skin where he says, “These objects are kept by a man of the Lu
gens, who is forbidden to open the bag, the gray hawk being the taboo of his
gens, who are known as Gray Hawk people.”<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 14pt">Sky
Campbell, B. A.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></B></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">Language
Director<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">Otoe-Missouria
Tribe<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">580-723-4466 ext.
111<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d"><A
href="mailto:sky@omtribe.org">sky@omtribe.org</A><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">
Siouan Linguistics [<A
href="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu">mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</A>] <B>On
Behalf Of </B>Rory Larson<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, October 28, 2013 3:49
PM<BR><B>To:</B> <A
href="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu">SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</A><BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: Looking for "thunder" and "lightning"
information<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; COLOR: #1f497d">Omaha has
<I>iⁿgròⁿ-huttoⁿ</I> for ‘thunder’, apparently meaning ‘the cry of an
<I>iⁿgròⁿ</I>’. Outside of that context, <I>iⁿgròⁿ</I> is the base word
for a ‘cat’, though in this context I think it may refer to a thunderbird.
By itself, <I>gròⁿ</I> seems to have a variety of meanings in Omaha, including
‘grumbling’ or ‘cussing’. I suppose thunder could be conceived as somebody
upstairs grumbling about something.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; COLOR: #1f497d">Omaha also has
<I>u-grà’a</I> for a ‘war-whoop’. I suspect this is a separate
term.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; COLOR: #1f497d">Bob can confirm,
but I believe /l/ in Kaw represents an underlying /gr/ in the original (MVS)
language. So from the Otoe point of view, the Lu clan should probably be
read as the “Gru” clan.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; COLOR: #1f497d">I doubt that
<I>waxo</I> would be related to <I>wahką</I>. But they may mean about the
same thing. In Omaha, the word for ‘sacred’ or ‘holy’ is <I>xubè</I>,
presumably from <I>*xo</I> (‘holy’) + <I>*pe</I> (some kind of
determiner). In IOM, does <I>ñita</I> mean anything by
itself?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; COLOR: #1f497d">Good
questions. I’ll look forward to seeing what other answers you fish
up. :)<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; COLOR: #1f497d">Rory<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; COLOR: #1f497d">(Oops, Justin
already replied. So I guess Lu should represent <I>*gro(ⁿ)</I>, which
presumably just means either ‘thunder’ or ‘thunderbird’ in
MVS.)<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<DIV
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<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">
Siouan Linguistics [<A
href="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu">mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</A>] <B>On
Behalf Of </B>Campbell, Sky<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, October 28, 2013 2:21
PM<BR><B>To:</B> <A
href="mailto:SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU">SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU</A><BR><B>Subject:</B>
Looking for "thunder" and "lightning"
information<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black">I’m looking for some feedback (and
cognates if applicable) on some terms for “thunder” and
“lightning.”<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black">For the thunder term, I am trying
to find information on Maximilian’s terms for thunder which are “gron-gron” and
“wahkonda-gron-gron”. I am trying to figure out what his term “gron”
is. Maximilian notes the “on” is pronounced as it is in French which would
be our nasal “ą”. So this term would be “grą” or the reduplicated version
“grągrą.” Any suggestions on what that may be? I have two theories
in mind and both come from other terms from Maximilian. First is his term
“gra-ah” (gra’a) which he has as shout or “give the warhoop.” The other is
his term “gro</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black">ͣ</SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: black">n-rä” (email formatting won’t let me show the accented “á”
above the “o” like the source has it) which would be “grąre” which he translates
as “great.” Those are just speculations right now. It should also be
noted that he gives lightning as “wáhkonda-gron” (same as thunder but without
the reduplication). And it may be a stretch but I’m wondering if this
“grą” is somehow related to our current “k’o” for thunder.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black">Any
thoughts?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black">Maximilian’s term for lightning
seems to be a variant of thunder so figuring out thunder will help with
lightning. So my question about lightning isn’t about that variant but
another. Nowadays we have:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black">rugri/rugrį<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black">Then I was reading Dorsey’s “The
Religions of Siouan Tribes” and he notes, “The Kansa tell the following: During
the first thunder-storm of the year, the Lu or Thunder-Being people put a
quantity of green cedar on a fire, making a dense smoke.” With “Lu”, he is
talking about a Kaw clan. And with “r” and “l” being interchangeable in
many materials, it has me thinking of our “rugri” and has me wondering if our
“rugri” perhaps says “thunder beings returned home (or here?)” (ru/lu – thunder
beings + gri (return home).<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black">Does anyone have any information
on that?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black">And one more thing while I’m
thinking about it. In the same paper I mentioned above by Dorsey, he is a
big fan of “Wakąnda” being translated as “great serpent” (waką + dana) although
he does go through a few other possibilities. Still, “great serpent” seems
to be the translation he likes the best. I can see how he came to that
conclusion. But he also notes that “In the Dakota language, wa-kan’ means
mysterious, wonderful, incomprehensible;” And in “Early Western Travels –
1748-1846, Vol. 24 (pages 223-224), Maximilian (via Thwaites) writes, “This name
is composed of two words; and, therefore, is not to be written as one. The
first word, uakan, less correctly wakan, is the expression for god,
divine, supernatural; the second, tanka, not tunka, means
great.”<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black">So that got me thinking about our
term waxoñita/xoñita for sacred/holy and I am curious if that “waxo-“ is related
to the “waką” that Dorsey mentions and if the idea is really closer to the
“great mysterious one” rather than “great serpent.” Or do they both mean
the same thing and it just depends on what sense you are using? I can only
think of one other instance off the top of my head where “xo-“ is used by itself
to indicate sacred and that is Jimm Goodtracks’ translation of William Whitman’s
term “mixoge” (berdache…mi- (female) + xo- (sacred) + -ge (quality
of)).<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black">This is probably a loaded question
but I’m interested in any information anyone might have on
this.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 14pt">Sky Campbell,
B. A.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></B></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black">Language
Director<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black">Otoe-Missouria
Tribe<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black">580-723-4466 ext.
111<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><A
href="mailto:sky@omtribe.org">sky@omtribe.org</A><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
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style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR>
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
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<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV></DIV>
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