<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 12 (filtered medium)"><!--[if !mso]><style>v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style><![endif]--><style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Consolas;
panose-1:2 11 6 9 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
p.MsoPlainText, li.MsoPlainText, div.MsoPlainText
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Plain Text Char";
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
p
{mso-style-priority:99;
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
p.MsoAcetate, li.MsoAcetate, div.MsoAcetate
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Balloon Text Char";
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:8.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";}
span.apple-style-span
{mso-style-name:apple-style-span;}
span.PlainTextChar
{mso-style-name:"Plain Text Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Plain Text";
font-family:Consolas;}
span.apple-converted-space
{mso-style-name:apple-converted-space;}
span.EmailStyle22
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
span.BalloonTextChar
{mso-style-name:"Balloon Text Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Balloon Text";
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I’ve come across a variant of “nine” that I’d seen a couple years ago but then forgot about it. It is listed like this in two sources:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>kjag-kæ (kshanke) – <i>An Elementary Book of the Ioway Language</i> (1843) by Hamilton and Irvin<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Ek jdfk (ikshanke) – <i>Wdtwhtl Wdwdklha Tva Eva Wdhonetl</i> (1834) by Merrill<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Merrill’s form follows the ordinal number pattern (IE “ninth” rather than “nine”) but the “k” is still present which is what has me curious. To date, all other sources I’ve come across only have “sanke/shanke” (or something along those lines) with no “k”. It has been mentioned here that “sanke” was borrowed from Algonquian. Does the inclusion of “k” also fit with other Algonquian “nines”? This extra “k” had me take another look at Iren’s information on the Hocąk nine:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>hižąkicųšgųnį - hižą (ONE) - ki- cųųšgųnį (be.without)</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>But nothing has caught my eye there beyond the “ki” which had me think about the “minus one” or “less one” idea that some of you said is the theme behind many of the “nine” terms and has me tentatively wondering:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>iyąnki – one<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>ksanke – nine (going with the “k” variant here…and trying to pronounce it sounds like “kisanke”)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>And wondering about this possibility:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>(iyąn)k(i)sanke<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Does this sound familiar to anyone? Our “iyąnki” looks to be very close to the above “hiząki” and that would fit in my idea but it would be a stretch to try to shoehorn in the rest. Does “sanke” follow the pattern of “less one” in Algonquian? It looks like if my idea was to hold any water, then the “sanke” part would have to somehow fill the “less one” role if that “k” is indeed a remnant of “iyąnki” at the front.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Thoughts?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Sky Campbell, B. A.<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Language Director<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Otoe-Missouria Tribe<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>580-723-4466 ext. 111<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>sky@omtribe.org<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Rankin, Robert L.<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, September 18, 2013 7:42 PM<br><b>To:</b> SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: Number 'nine' in Chiwere.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:14.0pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Every little bit is interesting and helpful. Thanks Dave. Bob<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='color:black'><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center></span></div><div id=divRpF792924><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> Siouan Linguistics [SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu] on behalf of David Costa [pankihtamwa@EARTHLINK.NET]<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, September 18, 2013 6:24 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu">SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: Number 'nine' in Chiwere.</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>I know it's not all that important, but in the oldest Miami-Illinois records, "eight" is <i>para·re</i>. By the late 1700s, it's <i>pala·ni </i>in all dialects.<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Dave<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:14.0pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>I need to add a little to my earlier comments on 'seven' and 'eight'. Chiwere only shows the partial quinary traces in 'eight', not 'seven'. And they seem to have borrowed it from Omaha. Below is the comparative dictionary entry for 'eight', and it shows the Omaha influence.<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;color:black'>GLOSS[ eight</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;color:black'> </span><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;color:black'>CH[ gre•rá•brį RR</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:13.5pt;color:black'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;color:black'>Proto-Dhegiha[ *hpe•-rá•wrį</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;color:black'>OM[ ppeðábðį C</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;color:black'>PN[ ppe•ðábðį RR</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;color:black'>KS[ ppe•yá•blį</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;color:black'>OS[ hpe•ðá•brį<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;color:black'>QU[ ppedá•bnį</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:13.5pt;color:black'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;color:black'>ProtoSE[ *pa-ra•nį</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:13.5pt;color:black'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;color:black'>OF[ pá<b>̣</b>ta<b>̣</b>nĭ DS-328b</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;color:black'>OF[ pA´tAnî Swanton 1909-485</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:13.5pt;color:black'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;color:black'>TU[ pālán (N); palāni, palāli, palāniq H</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;color:black'>TU[ pǎlan´ Hw</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;color:black'>TU[ pelą̈ʹk‘ Sapir</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;color:black'>TU[ balai´n Fracht</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;color:black'>TU[ bil<sup>a</sup>æ:kh, bilæ̨:kh Mithun</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:13.5pt;color:black'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;color:black'>OTHLGS[ Miami: palani (with variant forms recorded.)</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:13.5pt;color:black'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;color:black'>COM[ The CH pattern is almost certainly borrowed from DH, as the basis for</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;color:black'>this numeral is ‘three’, which, in CH, has undergone normal development to</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;color:black'>{dá•ñį}, not {*ra•brį}. This term is probably not PSI in origin as it</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;color:black'>occurs in the proper phonological form (*hpV + ‘three’) only in OVS and DH.</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;color:black'>Its presence in Illinois Algonquian (Rankin, 1985) shows that it spread from</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;color:black'>an OVS dialect. No actual PSI term for ‘eight’ is currently reconstructible.</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:13.5pt;color:black'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;color:black'>Treatment of 'seven' follows in a separate message.</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;color:black'>Bob</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><br>
</body></html>