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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Looking for something else, I came across this information on the number nine. It was mentioned before that the Siouan languages may have borrowed the term “<i>sanke</i>” from the Algonquian languages (or vice versa). I found this among Maximilian’s Osage terms:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><i><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Nine, gr</span></i><i><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>ä̇</span></i><i><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>bena – tscheh – u</span></i><i><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>ï</span></i><i><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>ningk</span></i><i><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>ä̇</span></i><i><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></i></p><p class=MsoNormal><i><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>(the whole run together); i. e.,<o:p></o:p></span></i></p><p class=MsoNormal><i><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>ten less one; they also say,<o:p></o:p></span></i></p><p class=MsoNormal><i><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>schangká<o:p></o:p></span></i></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>That got me to thinking about two things. First, this looks to me like the “<i>gr</i></span><i><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>ä̇</span></i><i><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>bena – tscheh – u</span></i><i><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>ï</span></i><i><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>ningk</span></i><i><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>ä̇</span></i><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>” was the original term for nine and that “<i>shangká</i>” is the interloper. It makes sense to me that the first version would be the original since it is an actual translation for nine <i>in that language</i>.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Maximilian’s entry for “one” is ”<i>uïnchtschä</i>” and you can see a portion of that in the “<i>tscheh</i>” in the above term.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Ok, that was more of a “hey look at this, you may find it interesting” tidbit of information. Here is the second thought that struck me. It is the “</span><i><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>u</span></i><i><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>ï</span></i><i><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>ningk</span></i><i><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>ä̇</span></i><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>” portion of the term which looks related to the Otoe-Missouria “<i>ninge</i>” which is along the lines of no or none and has even been translated as “have none.” That definitely fits with Maximilian’s mention of “less one.” Then that got me to thinking again about the Otoe-Missouria “<i>ninge</i>” which I’ve seen (and heard) as also being pronounced “<i>ninye</i>.” And then <i>that</i> got me to thinking about the term for nine that was given to me by a tribal member which was “<i>nanye</i>” and now I am wondering if that is a possible variant of ”<i>ninye/ninge</i>” and could be a potential long-lost relic of the original Otoe-Missouria term for nine which could very well have been something along the lines of “ten less one” as well before “<i>sanke</i>” moved in.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Of course I am basing this on me turning my head to the side while looking at it and banking a bit on the similarities between Otoe-Missouria and Osage but this still has drawn my attention and I wanted to get some feedback from you guys to see what you think.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Thoughts?</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Sky Campbell, B. A.<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Language Director<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Otoe-Missouria Tribe<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>580-723-4466 ext. 111<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>sky@omtribe.org<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Campbell, Sky<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, December 06, 2013 9:47 AM<br><b>To:</b> SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: Number 'nine' in Chiwere.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I wondered if there was a glottal stop in there somewhere. I see a “k” in Hamilton and Irvin’s books when there would often be a glottal stop. For example, their list of catechisms which they titled “We-wv-hæ-kju” (Wiwąxesų or Wiwąxe’sų (“(general) questions”)).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>What I also find interesting is that Hamilton and Irvin’s publication five years later (1848) (<i>An Ioway Grammar</i>) doesn’t have the “k” with the word for “nine.”<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Sky Campbell, B. A.<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Language Director<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Otoe-Missouria Tribe<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>580-723-4466 ext. 111<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><a href="mailto:sky@omtribe.org">sky@omtribe.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Siouan Linguistics [<a href="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu">mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Rankin, Robert L.<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, December 05, 2013 4:40 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu">SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: Number 'nine' in Chiwere.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Sky,<br><br>Yes, the initial k- seems to be part of the original term, probably from *ki-. Down below your comments I have copied the Comparative Dictionary entry for 'nine'. As you'll see, several of the languages show traces of the ki- or k-. My Chiwere recordings showed a glottal stop as residue of the k-. It's interesting that you found citations of the word with the full k-.<br><br>Thanks.<br><br>Bob<br></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><br>> Ek jdfk (ikshanke) – <i>Wdtwhtl Wdwdklha Tva Eva Wdhonetl</i> (1834) by Merrill</span><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>> Merrill’s form follows the ordinal number pattern (IE “ninth” rather than “nine”) but the “k” is still present which is what has me curious. To date, all other sources I’ve come across only have “sanke/shanke” (or something along those lines) with no “k”. It has been mentioned here that “sanke” was borrowed from Algonquian. Does the inclusion of “k” also fit with other Algonquian “nines”? </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Thoughts?</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>GLOSS[ nine</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>GRAMCAT[ N</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>SEMCAT[ </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>OTHREC[ {*kšą́kha} {GHM58}</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>PMV[ *kšą́hka ¦ (?)</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>CH[ ʔšą́khe ‘nine’ rlr</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>CH[ θą́khe ‘nine’ rtc</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>PDH[ *šą́hka</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>OP[ šą́kka ¦ nine ¦ rlr</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>OP[ šǫ́kka ¦ nine ¦ rtc</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>KS[ šą́kka ¦ nine ¦ rlr</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>OS[ šą́hka ¦ nine, archaic, card game ¦ rlr</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>QU[ šąkka ¦ nine ¦ rlr</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>PSE[ *kišą́•hka ¦ (?)</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>BI[ †čkané “tckanĕ´” ‘nine’ DS:265 (?)</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>OF[ †kíštəška “kî´shtAshga” ‘nine’ {JRS09:485}</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>OF[ “kĭ´cta<b>̣</b>cga” ‘nine’ DS:325b</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>TU[ †kisą́•hkai “tça (N), sā, sāñ, ksañk, ksāhkai, kasankai, ksākai” ‘nine’ HH</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>TU[ ¦ ksäⁿhk‘ ¦ ‘nine’ Hw.</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>TU[ ¦ sęk‘ ¦ ‘nine’ Sapir</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>TU[ ¦ kseⁿk ¦ ‘nine’ Fracht.</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>TU[ ¦ kiséⁿg, kisén ¦ two ¦ Fracht.</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>COM[ The recorded CH forms imply different underlying sibilants. PSI *š </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>often does become [s], but only primary PSI *s > θ}, {i.e.}, CH {š} </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>and {θ} never vary or alternate regularly. But note also the irregular TU </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>{s} where {č} is expected. BI {tckanĕ´} {DS:265a} is probably </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>borrowed from Choctaw-Chickasaw {čakkâ•li} {nine}; {n} is the usual </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>BI replacement for Western Muskogean {l} This W. Muskogean term lacks </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Creek, Hitchiti cognates however, and may be from the same ultimate source </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>as Siouan {*kišą́•hka} OF seems to show the intrusive {t} that appears </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>following sibilants in {black}, {q.v.} OF {a<b>̣</b>} often represents </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>denasalized {*ą}. {Cf.} also Powhatan {*ke•ka•ta•s} {nine} </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>{FS 1975:309} as well as other, well known Algonquian look-alikes such as </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Ojibwa {ša•nk-} Fox {ša•ka}, Shawnee {caakathzwi}, Potawatomi </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>{šak} {nine} {FS 1975:311, Rhodes, personal communication}. The </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>distribution of this set (only the more southerly languages represented), the </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>sibilant, and other phonological irregularities in CH, OF and TU, coupled </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>with the presence of similar terms in both Algonquian and Muskogean </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>languages lead us to conclude that this is a loanword. Direction(s) of </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>borrowing and/or source of the term is unknown.</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-family:Gentium;color:black'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><br> <o:p></o:p></p></div><br>
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