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<![if !supportLists]><span style="font-family:Wingdings;color:black"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">Ø<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="color:black">"Curiouser and curiouser, cried Alice"<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Actually, I don’t think the challenge is that unreasonable. The context is simply that a person is encountering events that are increasingly strange, unusual and difficult to explain, and exclaiming
upon that. Such a situation could occur in any society.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">The term ‘curious’ throws us, because its primary meaning in English is ‘eager to learn about something’. But in this context, the meaning is ‘strange’ or ‘weird’. For Omaha and Ponca, I think
the appropriate term would probably be “àži” (“ázhi”), which also carries the meaning of ‘different’, as well as being used as the standard negator (‘not’).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Next, we have the syntax of the expression. In English, the increasing strangeness is indicated through a device of compounding two instances of the ‘strange’ adjective in comparative form,
using “and” as a linking conjunction. But Omaha/Ponca, to my knowledge, has no comparative form of adjectives, no general word for “and”, and in any case would not use that compounded comparative device to indicate that a quality is increasing.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Ideally, I think an O/P speaker would reduplicate the adjective and add a continuant marker, probably “(h)náⁿ”, to get the sense of increasing quality. Unfortunately, I don’t know that “ázhi”
reduplicates. We do have the word “àži-roⁿroⁿ” (“ázhi-thaⁿthaⁿ), which I have recorded as meaning ‘different kinds’. I think “thaⁿthaⁿ” is a device that implies “reduplication of the preceding lexeme”. I’m not sure if it is appropriate for this case, however.
Mostly it shows up with numbers and similar terms to suggest grouping according what is indicated by the relevant lexeme, e.g., “by threes”.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">So for Alice’s exclamation, I can think of three possibilities. If “ázhi”, ‘strange’, reduplicates, then we could have:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> ázhizhi hnaⁿ<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Else if “thaⁿthaⁿ” works here, we could have:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> ázhi-thaⁿthaⁿ hnaⁿ<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Else if we want to be conservative and fake the reduplication by using “shi”, ‘again’, we could have:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> shi ázhi hnaⁿ<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">If we are doing O/P contemporary with Lewis Carroll, we would want to add “i he” at the end, given that Alice is a female speaker and is speaking emphatically. The emphatic part can’t really
be conveyed by the story frame “cried Alice”, because there doesn’t seem to be any word for “cry out in emphatic speech” in O/P. There is only “é”, ‘say’, and “báⁿ”, ‘scream’ or ‘yell’. The latter wouldn’t be used to describe a manner of speech, so we would
have to use the ‘say’ word. Since it is a story of factually dubious content, we would want to use “biama” after ‘she said it’. Alice, as the active subject, would probably take “ak ͪ a” as her article. So my three guesses are:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> “Ázhizhi hnaⁿ i he!” á biama Alice ak ͪ a.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> “Ázhi-thaⁿthaⁿ hnaⁿ i he!” á biama Alice ak ͪ a.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> “Shi ázhi hnaⁿ i he!” á biama Alice ak ͪ a.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Of the three, I like the first one best if “ázhizhi” is actually a word. Otherwise, I’d probably go with the third. The best recourse would be to ask a native speaker.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">If any Omaha-Poncanist can improve on this, suggestions are welcome! Otherwise, we might have to concede this round to Sapir and Whorf. :)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Rory<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Bryan James Gordon<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, April 11, 2014 1:38 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Here is a little curious inquiry for all of us to ponder<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I agree with Jimm. Even if you dig into the context enough to translate it, the context belongs to a certain segment of English-speaking society during a certain period of time. Contemporary English speakers find Lewis Carroll hard to wrap
our brains around, because his vision is not only a fantasy world, but it's based on obsessions and paranoias that are not as prevalent today, or are not imagined in the same way anymore. It's hard to translate stuff like that into any language, let alone
a language from people with a very different view of the world. It's a more distinguished request than pet names and such, but it's not the kind of translation work I would prefer to spend my time on. Why don't people ask us to translate Microsoft Word, or
a K-12 curriculum, or something important?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Eyáⁿ níⁿ-a Mark? Éska-naⁿ wathíshkaⁿ-taⁿga thigíni maⁿníⁿ shaⁿsháⁿxti kaⁿbthégaⁿ. Wakáⁿda wíbthahaⁿ maⁿbthíⁿ.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">2014-04-10 17:28 GMT-07:00 Jimm Goodtracks <<a href="mailto:jgoodtracks@gmail.com" target="_blank">jgoodtracks@gmail.com</a>>:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:blue">Ho, Mark! Pi dana ke shige ho ritawe hanax^un ke.</span><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:blue"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:blue"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:blue">I find the quote to be rather curious. However, I haven’t any immediate thoughts that come to me as to how one would render it in Baxoje – Jiwere. In part, the problem with any effective translation
of this quote, is the lack of context. Just what is becoming evermore curious? The answer is not yours to give, but it does await clarification of Mr. William Wolkowki and for what application does he want a translation of this Alice in Wonderland statement.</span><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:blue"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:blue"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:blue">Meanwhile, vaya bien en su tratamiento y su cura de su enfermidad. Híne bróge rígrahiwi ke. Wakánda nat^úrigradan mína ho.</span><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:blue"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:blue"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:14.0pt"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:blue">Jimm G. Goodtracks<br>
Báxoje Jiwére Language Project<br>
PO Box 55<br>
Tecumseh, KS 66542<br>
<br>
<br>
Ukínadheda wawáŋarana, ich^é nahá, injé etáwe waróxiñeda adáñešdan – wógiñi kigróšige íthgare ke.<br>
“In the middle of resisting, the language got caught, only showing her face in ceremony, like she’s ashamed of her scars.”<br>
(<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FUgDutdauQ&feature=share" target="_blank">www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FUgDutdauQ&feature=share</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:blue"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:blue"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">
<a href="mailto:mawakuni-swetland2@UNL.EDU" target="_blank" title="mawakuni-swetland2@UNL.EDU">
Mark Awakuni-Swetland</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">Sent:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"> Thursday, April 10, 2014 5:10 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">To:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">
<a href="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu" target="_blank" title="SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu">
SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">Subject:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"> Here is a little curious inquiry
for all of us to ponder<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="color:#C00000">Aloha all, something for the list to consider. Many thanks!</span></b><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="color:#C00000">Mark A-S</span></b><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">Received from william wolkowski
<a href="mailto:2009zww@gmail.com" target="_blank">2009zww@gmail.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="color:#0D0D0D">ALICE IN OMAHA</span></b><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">Dear Colleague,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">For the sesquicentennial in 2015<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">I am preparing a polyglot graphic study<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">of this quote from chapter 2<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">in Carroll's Alice in Wonderland<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">"Curiouser and curiouser, cried Alice"<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">If you wish to include it in this study,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">would you please help me<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">with a translation?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">Thank you.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">Best regards<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">Wolkowski<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">Sorbonne Universites UPMC<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">-- <br>
***********************************************************<br>
Bryan James Gordon, MA<br>
Joint PhD Program in Linguistics and Anthropology<br>
University of Arizona<br>
*********************************************************** <o:p></o:p></p>
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