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<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; COLOR: #0000ff">
<DIV><FONT size=4>Rory: They are both correct <FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt" color=#1f497d>“séwe” or “šéwe”</FONT>. The
difference is that the OM tend to pronounce a “s” while the Ioway tend to
pronounce a ‘’<FONT color=#1f497d size=5>š</FONT> ~ sh’’. The distinction
is not clear cut, as there have been informants who tend to use the ‘’<FONT
color=#1f497d size=5>š</FONT> ~ sh’’ at times and in certain words. Maybe
once upon a time, it was an OM vs. I difference. So then, in the
dictionary, such a word as we have here maybe be heard to be
pronounced <FONT style="COLOR: #1f497d"><FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">“séwe” or “šéwe”</FONT></FONT>. Now Dorsey
also uses the “s” and “sh.” The former usually represents the “th” while
the latter represents the “s” sound. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV
style='FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri"; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline'>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt tahoma">
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=rlarson1@UNL.EDU
href="mailto:rlarson1@UNL.EDU">Rory Larson</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, April 22, 2014 11:54 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu
href="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu">SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Possible SPAM] Re: Old Otoe-Missouria term for
"bear"</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style='FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri"; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline'>
<DIV class=WordSection1>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman","serif"; COLOR: #1f497d'>Jimm,
is that “séwe” or “šéwe”? I looked it up in your dictionary, and found it
under “šéwe”. Or is there no difference between /s/ and /š/ in
IOM?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman","serif"; COLOR: #1f497d'><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman","serif"; COLOR: #1f497d'><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Siouan Linguistics
[mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Jimm
Goodtracks<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, April 21, 2014 9:16 PM<BR><B>To:</B>
SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Possible SPAM] Re: Old
Otoe-Missouria term for "bear"<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p></o:p> </P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman","serif"; COLOR: blue'>I
am in agreement with all said. May I add two things. Dorsey’s “ñ” in his
text is equal to the “ng” as in “sing.” So in lieu of he Ioway “-iñe,” it
would be the Otoe/Missouria “-inge.” Also, IOM does have a cognate to
Omaha “sebe” which is “séwe” (brown). I have never known it to cover the
meaning of “shawdowed,” as Rory says exists in Omaha. </SPAN><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman","serif"; COLOR: blue'><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: whitesmoke"><B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'>From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'> <A
title=rlarson1@UNL.EDU href="mailto:rlarson1@UNL.EDU">Rory Larson</A>
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: whitesmoke"><B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'>Sent:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'>
Monday, April 21, 2014 2:12 PM<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: whitesmoke"><B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'>To:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'> <A
title=SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu
href="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu">SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</A>
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: whitesmoke"><B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'>Subject:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'> Re:
[Possible SPAM] Re: Old Otoe-Missouria term for
"bear"<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoListParagraph
style="TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo2"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: wingdings; COLOR: #1f497d"><SPAN
style="mso-list: ignore">Ø<SPAN style='FONT: 7pt "Times New Roman"'>
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">What I also find interesting,
regardless of which of the above scenarios is correct for this term, is why were
two portions of this word “shifted” to an Otoe-Missouria form (the s to a th and
zhinga to –inye) and not a potential third? Why didn’t the “b (p)” turn
into a “w” as seen in other cognates?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">That’s a very good observation,
and I think it probably tells us that the word is a loan from Dhegiha, as Jill
suggested, not a native Otoe-Missouria form. They would have understood
the meaning well enough to change the ‘small’ word to their own term for
“small”. The shift from /s/ to dental voiceless fricative “th” may have
happened after the name was adopted, or else “th” may still have been the
closest thing to /s/ they had when they adopted it.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">The main term is apparently
analyzable in Dhegiha as wa-sabe, “the Black One”, based on <I>sabe</I>, meaning
‘black’. But in Chiwere, the word for ‘black’ seems to be <I>thewe</I>,
which is presumably cognate to Dhegiha <I>sebe</I>, meaning ‘shadowed’.
Going off Jimm’s Baxoje Dictionary, it looks like <I>thewe</I> is the only word
for ‘black’ in that language, with no equivalent for Dhegiha <I>sabe</I>.
So the term may not even be analyzable in Chiwere. That would mean that
they pulled it in as a whole unanalyzed unit, complete with the foreign
pronunciation. It would be like one of us, being gifted with the name from
Omaha relatives, calling ourselves to other English speakers, “Little Wasabe”
rather than “Little Blackbear”. ‘Little’ might have been a standard naming
word in Otoe-Missouria that no one cared to mess with, but perhaps as a foreign
term <I>Wasabe</I> carried a cachet that might have been lacking if they had
translated it into the native Otoe-Missouria word for ‘black
bear’.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">Incidentally, I believe that
Comanche also adopted the <I>wasabe</I> term for ‘black bear’ from
Dhegiha.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">Rory<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> </SPAN><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman","serif"; COLOR: #1f497d'><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'>From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'>
Siouan Linguistics [<A
href="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu">mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</A>] <B>On
Behalf Of </B>Campbell, Sky<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, April 21, 2014 11:50
AM<BR><B>To:</B> <A
href="mailto:SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU">SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU</A><BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: [Possible SPAM] Re: Old Otoe-Missouria term for
"bear"<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">I found this while going through
some of Dorsey’s names:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">Wa-ça-́pe yiñ-́e, Tciwere
notation of the Cegiha, Wasabe jiñga, Young Black bear. See
Mŭⁿtcinye.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">He shows this as an
Otoe-Missouria Bear Clan name and there isn’t a mention of this individual
belonging to another tribe. This list was made about 60+ years after the
same name on the 1817 treaty. Could this be the same guy?
Possible…especially since he often lists deceased individuals (no mention of
that here though). I’d find it unlikely (but not impossible) that the same
individual was still alive so I’m thinking that either he was given the name by
someone, there was another individual living at that time with the same name, or
perhaps he even got it off of the 1817 treaty and just added it to his
list. What I find interesting is the “Tciwere notation of…”
statement. I’m trying to figure out if he is trying to indicate that this
name is an Otoe-Missouria cognate of the Dhegiha term (as in it was perhaps used
regularly) or if it was a one-time thing and this was simply an Otoe-ization of
Wasabe Zhinga. Him listing it as a Bear Clan name has me slightly leaning
toward the former.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">What I also find interesting,
regardless of which of the above scenarios is correct for this term, is why were
two portions of this word “shifted” to an Otoe-Missouria form (the s to a th and
zhinga to –inye) and not a potential third? Why didn’t the “b (p)” turn
into a “w” as seen in other cognates?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">And naturally I didn’t stumble
upon this information looking for this specific name…I was looking for something
else!!<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d"><IMG id=Picture_x0020_0 border=0
alt=Wathabeinye.jpg src="cid:194476BE88E74570AE401BA57FCD113B@AsusLaptop"
width=933 height=152><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; COLOR: #1f497d">Sky
Campbell, B. A.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></B></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">Language
Director<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">Otoe-Missouria
Tribe<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">580-723-4466 ext.
111<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d"><A
href="mailto:sky@omtribe.org">sky@omtribe.org</A><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'>From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'>
Siouan Linguistics [<A
href="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu">mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</A>] <B>On
Behalf Of </B>Sky Campbell<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, April 18, 2014 6:02
PM<BR><B>To:</B> <A
href="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu">SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</A><BR><B>Subject:</B>
[Possible SPAM] Re: Old Otoe-Missouria term for "bear"<BR><B>Importance:</B>
Low<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">Jimm,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">Very true...I've also seen a
handful of names referring to other tribes (Ioway, Pawnee, Pottawatomie, Omaha,
etc.). It makes me curious about if this person were from another tribe
(at least in part), what the scenario was that allowed them to inherit and/or
rise through the ranks to become someone important enough to sign a
treaty.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">Jill,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">I know what you mean. I've
considered the possibility of using variations. I know we only met briefly
at Breath of Life last year so I don't know how much of my West Virginia
accent/slang came out for you to hear but I do know that it does emerge from
time to time (much to my wife's amusement when I say something like "I ain't eat
yet" :) ). It's been years since I've lived there but those remnants still
bubble to the surface. I think people are often flabbergasted when they
find out that I work with languages LOL.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">Sky<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'>From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'>
Siouan Linguistics [<A
href="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu">mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</A>] <B>On
Behalf Of </B>Greer, Jill<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, April 18, 2014 1:18
PM<BR><B>To:</B> <A
href="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu">SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</A><BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: Old Otoe-Missouria term for "bear"<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">Interesting! Remember that
as people like the American dialectologist William Labov taught us, if
there are variations in how to pronounce something within a language, it’s
rarely the case that anyone uses only one variation always, and the other
group only uses the alternate. And the social context can subtly affect
which one is chosen, even below the conscious level of the
speaker. So, New York City speakers from a working class
neighborhood might use the classic ‘r’ dropping X percent of the time, say
65% (John Boyle can probably remember this exactly), while middle class
folks might only ‘drop their [r]’ 30%, and upper class folks might only
have it 5% of the time, just as an example.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">It always seemed to me since so
many Otoe-Missouria had Ioway kin (and vice versa) that an absolute 100%
consistency in using the alternate forms (like the inye vs. inge example here)
would be very unlikely. So beyond the possible differences in the persons’
hearing and transcription, it might have been perfectly acceptable to
pronounce the name both ways, at the same point in time.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d"> (In this part of SW
Missouri, Sky, your last name would traditionally be said more like the
desert animal, Camel </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: wingdings; COLOR: #1f497d">J</SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d">; we had dear neighbors who I knew only by hearing
their names spoken, and was surprised to find out later that the spelling had
not one but two “silent letters”). Then a new girl of the same surname
came to school, and she pronounced it Cam-bell, (still the silent
p), so I added that variation for her name, but that didn’t change the way I
addressed the older folks at church.... <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">Best,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">Jill <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'>From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'>
Siouan Linguistics [<A
href="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu">mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</A>] <B>On
Behalf Of </B>Sky Campbell<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, April 17, 2014 3:00
PM<BR><B>To:</B> <A
href="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu">SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</A><BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: Old Otoe-Missouria term for "bear"<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">Found this in the next treaty
(1825) while trying to figure out yet another name LOL.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d">Waw-zob-e-ing-ge<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">And once I saw it, I remembered
seeing it before. Now I have a shift from "th" to "z" in a span of 8 years
and it has me questioning if "ignet" was actually supposed to represent -inye or
-inge. If the first one was in face -inye then here you have another shift
to -inge. Presumably this same individual was there to pronounce his name
for whoever was writing it down. And if so, he changed 1 (and maybe 2)
part of his name. A number of scenarios come to mind for the change
(perhaps another one of the signers pronounced it for him) but it would still be
nice to get this sorted out :).<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">Sky<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'>From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'>
Siouan Linguistics [<A
href="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu">mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</A>] <B>On
Behalf Of </B>Greer, Jill<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, April 16, 2014 4:27
PM<BR><B>To:</B> <A
href="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu">SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</A><BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: Old Otoe-Missouria term for "bear"<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">Whoops - I meant Dhegiha
there. Sorry all! Jill<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'>From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'>
Siouan Linguistics [<A
href="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu">mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</A>] <B>On
Behalf Of </B>Greer, Jill<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, April 16, 2014 4:22
PM<BR><B>To:</B> <A
href="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu">SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</A><BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: Old Otoe-Missouria term for "bear"<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">Good point Sky - Of
course, there could be lots of alternative words for many things that we
just don’t have examples, so this is exciting. Names are always
fascinating. I must be getting hunger this afternoon, because
Wasabi is a Japanese restaurant in town here, and the thought of wonderful
hot horseradish came to my mind when your Otoe word was on the screen…
</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: wingdings; COLOR: #1f497d">J</SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">Jill<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'>From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'>
Siouan Linguistics [<A
href="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu">mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</A>] <B>On
Behalf Of </B>Rory Larson<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, April 16, 2014 4:12
PM<BR><B>To:</B> <A
href="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu">SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</A><BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: Old Otoe-Missouria term for "bear"<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">That’s a very good point, Jill,
and well taken. Yes, there is an equivalent name, at least in the Thatada
clan, which is Wasabe-zhiⁿga. If the term Sky found is a borrowing, it
shows that understanding between the two groups at the time was good enough to
cause Dhegiha ‘s’ to shift forward to Otoe ‘th’, and for the Dhegiha ‘small’
term (zhiⁿga) to be replaced by Otoe iñe, as Sky has just noted. But I
think either of those are quite possible and likely, so we might want more
evidence from Otoe before we conclude that this ‘bear’ term was generally used
in Otoe.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">Best,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">Rory<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> </SPAN><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman","serif"; COLOR: #1f497d'><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'>From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'>
Siouan Linguistics [<A
href="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu">mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</A>] <B>On
Behalf Of </B>Greer, Jill<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, April 16, 2014 3:52
PM<BR><B>To:</B> <A
href="mailto:SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU">SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU</A><BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: Old Otoe-Missouria term for "bear"<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">Sky and
Rory,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">Great posts - one thing to
consider also is that it’s actually not an Otoe word per se. It’s possible
for entire names to have been borrowed across tribes (or bestowed, think
of the intertribal peace-making child adoption tradition of the Pipe Dance
(Calumet in some soures), with the Beloved Child (it could be a girl or a
boy) undergoing an elaborate ceremony. People might have multiple
names (family kin name, clan name, later a name from an accomplishment,
plus nicknames [‘uncle names’]. Is there a similar name in Dhegiha
groups? <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">Best,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">Jill<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'>From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'>
Siouan Linguistics [<A
href="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu">mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</A>] <B>On
Behalf Of </B>Rory Larson<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, April 16, 2014 3:43
PM<BR><B>To:</B> <A
href="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu">SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</A><BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: Old Otoe-Missouria term for "bear"<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">Sky,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">The <I>wasabe</I> term is not
just Ponca; it’s Omaha, Kaw and (as <I>wasape</I>) Osage as well. I assume
it’s common Dhegiha. It refers to the black bear, as opposed to the
<I>mąnto</I>-equivalent term for ‘grizzly bear’. I’m sure you’re entirely
right that the ‘Wathapay’ part of that name is an Otoe equivalent of Dhegiha
<I>*wasape</I>. It looks like the ‘ignet’ must have been written by a
Frenchman; it kind of threw me a little at first. :)<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">Anyway, if the *<I>wasape</I>
term was not known from Otoe before, that’s a great catch! So it looks
like you have three terms for ‘bear’??<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">Best,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">Rory<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> </SPAN><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman","serif"; COLOR: #1f497d'><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'>From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'>
Siouan Linguistics [<A
href="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu">mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</A>] <B>On
Behalf Of </B>Sky Campbell<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, April 16, 2014 1:50
PM<BR><B>To:</B> <A
href="mailto:SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU">SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU</A><BR><B>Subject:</B>
Old Otoe-Missouria term for "bear"<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black">I've had a name from an old Otoe
treaty (1817) that has always puzzled me. The name
is:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black">Wathapayignet - the Small
Bear<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black">There is no <I>mųnje</I>
(bear/black bear) or <I>mąnto</I> (grizzly bear) terms to be found in
there. The "small" part is easy enough to pull out of there (yignet =
-inye). Then the thought struck me about the Ponca term for bear (wasabe)
and how the Ponca "s" can sometimes be the Otoe "th" in cognate terms.
This gives me "wathabe" as the term for bear. Now before I run with this,
does anyone have anything to back this up? It certainly makes sense and
the pieces fit. But I have never seen "wathabe" anywhere as an Otoe word
for bear. But if I am right, this would give me:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black">Wathabeinye - Small
Bear<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black">If I am correct, then I'm thinking
that this is an <I>extremely</I> old term.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black">Anyone else come across this
before?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black">Sky<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
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