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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Bryan, Ryan, and Emilia, thank you very much for your kind responses and good advice. I will plan to steer clear of the subject of the influence of vowel length on accent in Siouan in my presentation.
:)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">See you all soon, hopefully!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Best,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Rory<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Bryan James Gordon<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 21, 2014 10:08 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: FW: Siouan accent and long syllables<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p>I'm aware of good arguments that vowel length doesn't really function to distinguish word pairs in Ioway, Otoe and Missouria, and very rarely serves a distinguishing function in Omaha or Ponca either. However, what I hear in listening to recordings and speakers
for both groupings is a bimodal distribution of length on unaccented first syllables. If length is ever "really" distinctive, it's probably first and foremost on unaccented first syllables. At some point I'll get my act together and provide quantitative support
for all this speculation.<br>
BJG<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On May 21, 2014 9:59 PM, "BJG" <<a href="mailto:egonxti@gmail.com">egonxti@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>I'm aware of good arguments that vowel length doesn't really function to distinguish word pairs in Ioway, Otoe and Missouria, and very rarely serves a distinguishing function in Omaha or Ponca either. However, what I hear in listening to recordings and speakers
for both groupings is a bimodal distribution of length on unaccented first syllables. If length is ever "really" distinctive, it's probably first and foremost on unaccented first syllables. At some point I'll get my act together and provide quantitative support
for all this speculation.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>BJG<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On May 21, 2014 4:19 PM, "Loren Frerichs" <<a href="mailto:lhf@unl.edu" target="_blank">lhf@unl.edu</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> Emilia Aigotti <<a href="mailto:aigotm@yahoo.com" target="_blank">aigotm@yahoo.com</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 21, 2014 15:46<br>
<b>To:</b> Siouan Linguistics<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Siouan accent and long syllables</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#282828">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#282828"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Courier New";color:black">Did you read about Dorsey's Law? Wolff 1950 has a good explanation of it although I haven't totally wrapped my head around it. Don't forget though, it is believed
that Chiwere doesn't have vowel length. Here is an excerpt from my paper from Miner 1979. Not sure this helps at all. I just jumped in on this conversation…<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Courier New";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Courier New";color:black">Emilia<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%;background:white"><span style="font-family:"Courier New";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><b><span style="font-family:"Courier New";color:black">3.1.3 Hypotheses on Chiwere/Hoocąk Relationship.
</span></b><span style="font-family:"Courier New";color:black">Miner (1979) gives examples of the relationship between accent and stress patterns between Hoocąk and Chiwere.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:.5in;line-height:150%;background:white"><span style="font-family:"Courier New";color:black">1. third-mora accent in Winnebago matches second-syllable accent in Chiwere<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:.5in;line-height:150%;background:white"><span style="font-family:"Courier New";color:black">2. Chiwere accented initial syllables correspond to Winnebago long initial syllables<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:.5in;line-height:150%;background:white"><span style="font-family:"Courier New";color:black">3. Point two above corresponds to the instrumental prefixes.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%;background:white"><span style="font-family:"Courier New";color:black">This means, accented instrumentals in Chiwere closely resembled lengthened prefixes in Winnebago (and the same being true for unaccented and short
vowels). The following is an excerpt from the chart Miner provides (p. 31) on the similarities between Hoocąk and Chiwere instrumentals.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Courier New";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"> Ryan Kasak <<a href="mailto:ryan.kasak@GMAIL.COM" target="_blank">ryan.kasak@GMAIL.COM</a>><br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu" target="_blank">SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</a>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 21, 2014 2:36 PM<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Siouan accent and long syllables</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black">Regarding Bryan's discussion of the conflict between syllable weight and expected μμμ́ pattern in Chiwere, it could simply be that the Weight-to-Stress Principle of Prince (1990) is ranked
higher than the μμμ́ pattern, if we put this in the context of OT tableaux:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black">WSP>> μμμ́ <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">/baaxoje/<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">-><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">a. báaxoje<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">*<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">b. baaxóje<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">*!<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black">It is thus more important that heavy syllables attract stress than adhere to the on-the-third-mora tendency we see. This hierarchy could help start to explain the disconnect between when
to stress what in Chiwere. I haven't looked much into Hoocąk, so I don't know if this brief observation would hold true there as well.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black"><br>
In Mandan, there is a preference for left-aligned iambs, where long vowels are well-formed iambs: LĹ, LH́, H́.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black">/istawį/ -> [(i.stá).mį] 'eye'<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black">/ruwąk/ -> [(nų.mą́k)] 'man'<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black">/wį-ta-wįįh-e/ -> [(pta.mį́į).he] 'my sister'<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black">/pąąpi-oʔš/ -> [(pą́ą).piʔš] 'he is thin' (said to male listener)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black">The only two exceptions to this is in compounds and in words involving preverbs/applicatives /i, e, aa, o/. In compounds, primary stress is assigned to the leftmost-available iamb. If no
iamb is available, the stress does not cross the word boundary, resulting in deficient feet, i.e., a foot containing just a stressed Ĺ.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black">COMPOUNDS:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black">/paʔ/ 'head' + /hį/ 'hair' -> [(páʔ).hį] 'porcupine'<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black">/wįʔ/ 'stone' + /ti/ 'house' -> [(mį́ʔ).ti] 'village'<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black">/ho/ 'story' + /kirąąr/ 'tell' -> [(hó).<a href="http://ki.na/" target="_blank">ki.na</a>̨<a href="http://a.ro/" target="_blank">a.ro</a>ʔš] ’he is story-telling’ (said to male listener)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black">PREVERBS<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black">/i/ directional + /aaki/ `be above' + /ta/ locative -> [(í).ʔaa.ki.ta] ’upward’<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black">/o/ inessive + /wa/ 1st active + /kųh/ `want something' + /oʔš/ -> [(ó).wa.kų.hoʔš] 'I want something'<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black">The stress placement in constructions with preverbs suggests that the phonology is sensitive to the morphological structure of non-simplex words. In Anderson’s (1992)
<i>A-Morphous Morphology</i>, he calls words like those in the preverbs 'composites,' meaning that there is some internal structure: [ó- [wakųhoʔš]] ’I want something.’ The preverb isn't in the same domain as the inflected root is, and the left-aligned iambic
stress assignment cannot corss over into the next domain to create a well-formed iamb, due to what Ito and Mester (1999) call a CrispEdge constraint, where some phonological processes are unable to cross certain boundaries.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black">I haven’t looked super seriously at other Siouan languages’ stress patterns, but I think that Lakota/Dakota likewise prefers iambic feet (sans the long vowels like in Mandan) except for
cases of compounds and composites, but I'd be interested to see how well that guess plays out.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black">-Ryan<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black">On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 11:18 AM, Bryan James Gordon <<a href="mailto:linguist@email.arizona.edu" target="_blank">linguist@email.arizona.edu</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black">It seems like there is some variation about how vowel length interacts with stress. I never have managed to figure out a simple, neat explanation for how it works in Ponca and Omaha. It
seems like if one of the first two syllables has a long vowel, that one usually gets stressed, but not always. Sometimes the stress placement is more an indicator of morphology than phonology, e.g. "itháe" "I speak" vs. "íthae" "you speak". And when both vowels
are underlyingly long it seems to me like there are morphological, phonological and "free" (across- and within-speaker) variations. And then there's the question of why "wa-" "them" seems to like stress more than "wa-" "us". Is "wa-" "them" underlyingly long?
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black">I understand the situation in Ioway, Otoe and Missouria even less. Jimm may be able to help out here. I often notice when comparing recordings with each other or with Jimm's dictionary
that words like "Baxoje" "Ioway" are stressed on different syllables by different speakers or even by the same speaker in different contexts. It seems like the first vowel in "Baxoje" is long, so there may be some sort of tension going on here between "Put
stress on the third mora" and "Put stress on the first long vowel". The dictionary orthography (I think) puts stress on the first syllable.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black">On May 21, 2014 7:55 AM, "Rory Larson" <<a href="mailto:rlarson1@unl.edu" target="_blank">rlarson1@unl.edu</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">I have a question about the Siouan accent rule that I should know, but don’t. Generally, Siouan accent likes to go on the second syllable. Also, Siouan vowels are sometimes
long. Does a long vowel count as one syllable or two for purposes of the Siouan accent rule? If we have a word with the vowel of the first syllable long,</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"> cvvcv</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">should Siouan accent it as</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"> cvvcV</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">or as</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"> cvVcv</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">?</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">Thanks,</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">Rory</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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