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<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=4 face="Times New Roman">Well, going on what Jill
says, the closet thing I can find is: <SPAN class=a><STRONG><FONT
color=#0033cc>šedánaŋe; šedánaŋa</FONT></STRONG></SPAN><I
style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 7.0pt"><SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"><FONT color=#000000> </FONT></SPAN><FONT
color=#000000>adv/prn. </FONT><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"><FONT
color=#000000> </FONT></SPAN></SPAN></I><FONT color=#000000>that distant
curvilinear object yonder; that distant land in sight. <FONT
color=#0000ff>However, I'm not comfortable that it is a good fit for
"Carominga." I don't know if the original notation was from a French or
English document, and as such, cannot know to consider the phonetic value of the
"C." </FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=4 face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=#000000><FONT
color=#0000ff></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=4 face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=#000000><FONT
color=#0000ff>But going with the possibility of it being "Ké" as in "Kétan"
(turtle), we have: </DIV>
<P class=MsoNormalCxSpFirst
style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify; MARGIN: auto auto auto -0.1in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.1in; mso-add-space: auto; mso-mirror-indents: yes"><B
style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="COLOR: #0033cc"><FONT
size=3>kéta</FONT><SUP><FONT size=3>n</FONT></SUP><FONT size=3>;
ketú</FONT><SUP><FONT size=3>n</FONT></SUP><FONT
size=3>ha;</FONT></SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt"><FONT color=#000000>
keton^a (SKN); qetan (DOR)</FONT><I style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal"><SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"><FONT color=#000000> </FONT></SPAN><FONT
color=#000000>n.</FONT><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"><FONT
color=#000000> </FONT></SPAN></I></SPAN><FONT color=#000000
size=3>turtle.</FONT><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"><FONT color=#000000
size=3> </FONT></SPAN><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN
style="COLOR: #0033cc"><FONT size=3>kéta</FONT><SUP><FONT
size=3>n</FONT></SUP><FONT size=3> xúha</FONT></SPAN></B><I
style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt"><SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"><FONT color=#000000> </FONT></SPAN><FONT
color=#000000>n.</FONT><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"><FONT
color=#000000> </FONT></SPAN></SPAN></I><FONT color=#000000 size=3>turtle
shell.</FONT><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt"><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"><FONT
color=#000000> </FONT></SPAN><U><FONT
color=#000000>Kéta</FONT><SUP><FONT color=#000000>n</FONT></SUP></U><FONT
color=#000000> wáñi pí añáñe ke,</FONT><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"><FONT
color=#000000> </FONT></SPAN><FONT color=#000000>It is said that
</FONT><U><FONT color=#000000>turtle</FONT></U><FONT color=#000000> meat is
good.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormalCxSpMiddle
style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify; MARGIN: auto auto auto -0.1in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.1in; mso-add-space: auto; mso-mirror-indents: yes"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: #333399"><SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN></SPAN><B
style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt"><FONT
color=#000000>kégrédheiñe; kégrédheiŋe</FONT><SPAN
style="mso-tab-count: 1"><FONT color=#000000>
</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt"><FONT
color=#000000>spotted (or) sand turtle<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormalCxSpMiddle
style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify; MARGIN: auto auto auto -0.1in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.1in; mso-add-space: auto; mso-mirror-indents: yes"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: #333399"><SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN></SPAN><B
style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt"><FONT
color=#000000>kehto</FONT><SUP><FONT color=#000000>n</FONT></SUP><FONT
color=#000000>ha</FONT></SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt"><FONT
color=#000000> (SKN)</FONT></SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt"><SPAN
style="mso-tab-count: 2"><FONT
color=#000000>
</FONT></SPAN><FONT color=#000000>snapping turtle;
snapper<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormalCxSpMiddle
style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify; MARGIN: auto auto auto -0.1in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.1in; mso-add-space: auto; mso-mirror-indents: yes"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: #333399"><SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN></SPAN><B
style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt"><FONT
color=#000000>kémarax^í</FONT><SUP><FONT color=#000000>n</FONT></SUP><FONT
color=#000000>; kemárax^i</FONT><SUP><FONT
color=#000000>n</FONT></SUP></SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt"><FONT
color=#000000> (LWR)</FONT></SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt"><SPAN
style="mso-tab-count: 1"><FONT
color=#000000>
</FONT></SPAN><FONT color=#000000>snapping turtle<SPAN
style="COLOR: #333399"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormalCxSpMiddle
style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify; MARGIN: auto auto auto -0.1in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.1in; mso-add-space: auto; mso-mirror-indents: yes"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: #333399"><SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN></SPAN><B
style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt"><FONT
color=#000000>ké márax^i</FONT><SUP><FONT
color=#000000>n</FONT></SUP></SPAN></B><I
style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt"><FONT
color=#000000> </FONT></SPAN></I><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt"><FONT
color=#000000>“wrinkled turtle”</FONT><SPAN style="mso-tab-count: 1"><FONT
color=#000000> </FONT></SPAN><FONT color=#000000>mud turtle<SPAN
style="COLOR: #333399"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormalCxSpMiddle
style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify; MARGIN: auto auto auto -0.1in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.1in; mso-add-space: auto; mso-mirror-indents: yes"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: #333399"><SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN></SPAN><B
style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt"><FONT
color=#000000>ketá</FONT><SUP><FONT color=#000000>n</FONT></SUP><FONT
color=#000000>na</FONT></SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt"><FONT
color=#000000> (LWR)</FONT></SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt"><SPAN
style="mso-tab-count: 2"><FONT
color=#000000>
</FONT></SPAN><FONT color=#000000>snapping turtle; snapper</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormalCxSpMiddle
style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify; MARGIN: auto auto auto -0.1in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.1in; mso-add-space: auto; mso-mirror-indents: yes"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt"><FONT color=#000000></FONT></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormalCxSpMiddle
style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify; MARGIN: auto auto auto -0.1in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.1in; mso-add-space: auto; mso-mirror-indents: yes"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt"><FONT color=#000000><FONT color=#0000ff
size=4> But you see, the best
contender is for: </FONT><SPAN
style="COLOR: #333399"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormalCxSpMiddle
style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify; MARGIN: auto auto auto -0.1in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.1in; mso-add-space: auto; mso-mirror-indents: yes"><B
style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="COLOR: #0033cc"><FONT
size=3> kéra</FONT></SPAN></B><I
style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt"><SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"><FONT color=#000000> </FONT></SPAN><FONT
color=#000000>adj.</FONT><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"><FONT
color=#000000> </FONT></SPAN></SPAN></I><FONT color=#000000
size=3>clear</FONT><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt"><FONT color=#000000> (</FONT><I
style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal"><FONT color=#000000>sky</FONT></I><FONT
color=#000000>)</FONT></SPAN><FONT color=#000000 size=3>.</FONT><SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"><FONT color=#000000 size=3>
</FONT></SPAN><B><SPAN style="COLOR: #0033cc"><FONT size=3>Clear
Day;</FONT></SPAN></B><SPAN style="COLOR: #0033cc"><FONT size=3> </FONT><B><FONT
size=3>Clear Sky Appears</FONT></B></SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt"><FONT
color=#000000> </FONT><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"><FONT
color=#000000> </FONT></SPAN><SPAN
style="mso-bidi-font-style: italic"><FONT color=#000000>(</FONT><I><FONT
color=#000000>a personal Buffalo Clan name</FONT></I><FONT
color=#000000>)</FONT><I><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"><FONT
color=#000000> </FONT></SPAN><FONT color=#000000>n.</FONT></I></SPAN><I
style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal"><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"><FONT
color=#000000> </FONT></SPAN></I></SPAN><FONT color=#000000 size=3>Kéra
Tá</FONT><SUP><FONT color=#000000 size=3>n</FONT></SUP><FONT color=#000000
size=3>^i</FONT><SUP><FONT color=#000000 size=3>n</FONT></SUP><FONT
color=#000000 size=3>; K^éra Tá</FONT><SUP><FONT color=#000000
size=3>n</FONT></SUP><FONT color=#000000 size=3>^i</FONT><SUP><FONT
color=#000000 size=3>n</FONT></SUP><FONT color=#000000 size=3>.</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt"><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"><FONT
color=#000000> </FONT></SPAN><FONT color=#000000>**</FONT><I
style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal"><FONT color=#000000>SEE</FONT></I><FONT
color=#000000>: </FONT><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><FONT
color=#000000>githóje; clear.</FONT></B></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormalCxSpMiddle
style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify; MARGIN: auto auto auto -0.1in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.1in; mso-add-space: auto; mso-mirror-indents: yes"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt"><FONT
color=#000000><STRONG> </STRONG></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormalCxSpMiddle
style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify; MARGIN: auto auto auto -0.1in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.1in; mso-add-space: auto; mso-mirror-indents: yes"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt"><FONT color=#000000><FONT color=#0000ff size=4>Also,
thinking about the breakup of syllables as Justin suggest, there could be a
connect with: </FONT></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormalCxSpMiddle
style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify; MARGIN: auto auto auto -0.1in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.1in; mso-add-space: auto; mso-mirror-indents: yes"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman","serif"; COLOR: #0033cc; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA'><STRONG> <FONT
size=4>romi<SUP>n</SUP>jí</FONT></STRONG></SPAN><FONT size=4><I
style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 7pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman","serif"; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA'><SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"><FONT color=#000000> </FONT></SPAN><FONT
color=#000000>n.</FONT><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"><FONT
color=#000000> </FONT></SPAN></SPAN></I><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman","serif"; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA'><FONT
color=#000000>island.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 8pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman","serif"; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA'><FONT
color=#000000> </FONT><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"><FONT
color=#000000> </FONT></SPAN></SPAN><STRONG><SPAN class=a><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman","serif"; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA'><FONT
color=#0033cc>Romi</FONT></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN class=a><SUP><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman","serif"; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA'><FONT
color=#0033cc>n</FONT></SPAN></SUP><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman","serif"; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA'><FONT
color=#0033cc>jí^iŋe(mi); Romí</FONT></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN class=a><SUP><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman","serif"; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA'><FONT
color=#0033cc>n</FONT></SPAN></SUP><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman","serif"; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA'><FONT
color=#0033cc>chiŋe; Irómiŋhšji; Jéromi</FONT></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN
class=a><SUP><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman","serif"; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA'><FONT
color=#0033cc>n</FONT></SPAN></SUP><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman","serif"; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA'><FONT
color=#0033cc>je;</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></STRONG></FONT><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 8pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman","serif"; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA'><FONT
color=#000000> Romijiiŋemi (DOR); rúmitsí (MAX) </FONT><SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"><FONT color=#000000> </FONT></SPAN><FONT
color=#000000>(</FONT><I style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal"><FONT
color=#000000>a personal Buffalo Clan and Beaver Clan name</FONT></I><FONT
color=#000000>)</FONT><I style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal"><SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"><FONT color=#000000>
</FONT></SPAN></I></SPAN><FONT size=4><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman","serif"; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA'><FONT
color=#000000>Little Island.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 8pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman","serif"; COLOR: #0033cc; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA'><SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN></SPAN><B
style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman","serif"; COLOR: #0033cc; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA'>Romihi<SUP>n</SUP>gu
~ Romihiŋu</SPAN></B></FONT><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 8pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman","serif"; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA'><FONT
color=#000000> (SKN)</FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=a><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman","serif"; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA'><STRONG><FONT
color=#0033cc>;</FONT></STRONG></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 8pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman","serif"; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA'><FONT
color=#000000> Romijiiŋemi (DOR)</FONT><I
style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal"><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"><FONT
color=#000000> </FONT></SPAN></I><FONT color=#000000>(</FONT><I
style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal"><FONT color=#000000>a personal Pigeon Clan
name</FONT></I><FONT color=#000000>)</FONT><I
style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal"><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"><FONT
color=#000000> </FONT></SPAN></I></SPAN><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman","serif"; mso-bidi-font-size: 8.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA'><FONT
color=#000000>Island.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 8pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman","serif"; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA'><FONT
color=#000000> </FONT></SPAN><o:p><STRONG> </STRONG></o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV> And there was maybe the "g" is really a "j" which gives only one
unlikely possibility:
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN lang=ES> <FONT size=4><SPAN lang=ES
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman","serif"; COLOR: #0033cc; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language: ES; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA'><STRONG><FONT
size=4>má<SUP>n</SUP>je</FONT></STRONG></SPAN><SPAN lang=ES
style='FONT-SIZE: 8pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman","serif"; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language: ES; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA'><FONT
color=#000000> </FONT></SPAN>(?)(LWR)</FONT></SPAN><B><SPAN lang=ES>;
masjé</SPAN></B><I><SPAN lang=ES><SPAN> </SPAN>adj/v.i.<SPAN>
</SPAN></SPAN></I>hot, warm<SPAN>
(<I>weather</I>)</SPAN>.<B><o:p></o:p></B></P></DIV>
<DIV>With the above, one could squeeze out a "Turtle Island," but, this
possibility is not convincing to me. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>SO THEN, </STRONG>in appreciation to everyone's input, I have
arrived full circle to my original conjecture that the name that most likely
fits the documented transcription is:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>KéraMánge</STRONG> (Clearing Day All About~ Prevailing). In
this case, the "mánge" (sitting) is used in the sense of a positional verb,
saying that the clearing of the sky, was extensive over a wide
area such might be view on the breathe of the open plains. Further,
such a rendering would be consistant to similar clan names.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I suggest one possibilty for Grey in working with his narrative is to
include with the composed name, the original transcription, such as,
"<STRONG>KéraMánge</STRONG> (Clearing Day All About) [Carminga (Document Source
citations)]. Unless, new evidence appears, or further information,
this is the best that can be made of that name.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Hánhe Pi, Good Night, Buenas Noches!</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </FONT></FONT><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt Tahoma">
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A
title="mailto:Greer-J@MSSU.EDU
CTRL + Click to follow link"
href="mailto:Greer-J@MSSU.EDU">Greer, Jill</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, July 19, 2014 6:22 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A
title="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu
CTRL + Click to follow link"
href="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu">SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: Carominga</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Justin and Sky -
<DIV>You guys with your programming talents- impressive! </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Just one question for Jimm and Greg - if the original person who
transcribed the name was French (or a mixed blood literate in French- as
was common around St. Joseph), the first syllabie "Ca" could even be /Sa/
or /se/ rather than Key, n'est pas? I hate to muddy the
waters, but all it takes is one person to miss the cedilla and we've switched
the sound totally. These old names are so slippery, but fascinating!
</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Best,</DIV>
<DIV>Jill</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV> <BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Jul 18, 2014, at 8:17 PM, "Mcbride, Justin" <<A
title="mailto:jtmcbri@OSTATEMAIL.OKSTATE.EDU
CTRL + Click to follow link"
href="mailto:jtmcbri@OSTATEMAIL.OKSTATE.EDU">jtmcbri@OSTATEMAIL.OKSTATE.EDU</A>></DIV>
<DIV> wrote:</DIV><BR class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV dir=ltr>When you showed me that program last year, Sky, I remember
thinking, "Now, THIS is awesome!" As a guy who, for years, was asked questions
like, "What's my Granddad's name mean?" on a weekly basis, only to be handed a
string of indecipherable 'ah's, 'eh's, and hyphens with a few consonants mixed
in for good measure, I would have relished the opportunity to see a list the
possible permutations presented at once. Now, if you could just build in some
phonotactic constraint logic and SQL interaction with some sort of lexical
database to provide suggestions--you know, the easy stuff--you'd have the
proverbial better mousetrap! :) Ah, it's fun to dream!
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>By the way, the name Kke Leze was the name of one of the last living male
L1 Ks speakers. -jtm</DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_extra><BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 7:34 PM, Sky Campbell <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:sky@legendreaders.com"
target=_blank>sky@legendreaders.com</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">
<DIV lang=EN-US link="blue" vlink="purple">
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri","sans-serif"; COLOR: #1f497d'>Justin,<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri","sans-serif"; COLOR: #1f497d'><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri","sans-serif"; COLOR: #1f497d'>I
thought of that too (and even thought of turtle LOL...ke for ketą) but
nothing came to mind for the rest. We have a precedent for this which
is a name listed as "Ke Greðe" (Prairie Turtle/Spotted Turtle). I seem
to remember one or two more but can't think of them off the top of my
head.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri","sans-serif"; COLOR: #1f497d'><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri","sans-serif"; COLOR: #1f497d'>And
thanks for pointing out the "g" possibly being the "j" sound. That is
usually one of the first things I consider but it totally slipped my
mind. Man, I really, REALLY need to finish my "character/morpheme
swap" program for situations like this.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri","sans-serif"; COLOR: #1f497d'><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri","sans-serif"; COLOR: #1f497d'>Sky<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri","sans-serif"; COLOR: #1f497d'><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<DIV
style="BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Siouan
Linguistics [mailto:<A href="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu"
target=_blank>SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</A>] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Mcbride,
Justin<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, July 18, 2014 5:46 PM<BR><B>To:</B> <A
href="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu"
target=_blank>SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</A><BR><B>Subject:</B> Re:
Carominga<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=h5>
<P class=MsoNormal><U></U><U></U> </P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Howdy, Jimm,<U></U><U></U></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><U></U><U></U> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>I wonder about the division of syllables into Caro and
Monga. Is it possible that it could be Ca Romonga? I ask becasue, if it were
a Kaw name, I'd think it might have something to do with kke, 'turtle,'
which I'm pretty sure I've seen spelled as Ca in names before. I would also
look at the r as representing either Ks y or l, and -ga part at the end (if
it's not been switched, as Sky suggests, which I think is probable) as
possibly representing like the Ks syllable j^e, which seems to happen fairly
frequently in the names I've looked at. In short, I would expect something
like kke yaNmaNj^e, which doesn't ring any bells at all in Ks. Now, I don't
know much at all about IOM, lexically or phonologically--maybe this makes
even less sense in IOM--but thought I just might throw that out there as
food for thought. <U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><U></U><U></U> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>All the best,<U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>-Justin<U></U><U></U></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><U></U><U></U> </P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 3:54 PM, Sky Campbell <<A
href="mailto:sky@legendreaders.com"
target=_blank>sky@legendreaders.com</A>> wrote:<U></U><U></U></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri","sans-serif"; COLOR: #1f497d'>The
"caro" portion has me thinking of a few
possibilities:</SPAN><U></U><U></U></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri","sans-serif"; COLOR: #1f497d'></SPAN><U></U><U></U> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri","sans-serif"; COLOR: #1f497d'>kera
(as you pointed out)</SPAN><U></U><U></U></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri","sans-serif"; COLOR: #1f497d'>giro
(happy)</SPAN><U></U><U></U></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri","sans-serif"; COLOR: #1f497d'></SPAN><U></U><U></U> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri","sans-serif"; COLOR: #1f497d'>The
"monga" has me thinking of:</SPAN><U></U><U></U></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri","sans-serif"; COLOR: #1f497d'></SPAN><U></U><U></U> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri","sans-serif"; COLOR: #1f497d'>mange
(lying down)</SPAN><U></U><U></U></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri","sans-serif"; COLOR: #1f497d'>mange
(chest)</SPAN><U></U><U></U></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri","sans-serif"; COLOR: #1f497d'>womanke
(easy) <-- perhaps unlikely</SPAN><U></U><U></U></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri","sans-serif"; COLOR: #1f497d'>mąnka
(medicine) <-- seems the most unlikely but I thought I'd throw it in
there</SPAN><U></U><U></U></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri","sans-serif"; COLOR: #1f497d'></SPAN><U></U><U></U> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri","sans-serif"; COLOR: #1f497d'>Last
is a "theory" that I have that perhaps somehow, some way, "monga" might be a
form of "manyi/manye". Considering how many examples of "ng" and "ny"
being swapped out (sunge/sunye, -inge/-inye, etc.), I wonder if perhaps it
might be a version of "manyi". Especially since that word is used in
so many names already and your friend noted that it appears in other names
as well. This is just speculation, of course. Speaking of which,
if they could provide examples of other names that use "monga", it might
help us figure it out.</SPAN><U></U><U></U></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri","sans-serif"; COLOR: #1f497d'></SPAN><U></U><U></U> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri","sans-serif"; COLOR: #1f497d'>Sky</SPAN><U></U><U></U></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri","sans-serif"; COLOR: #1f497d'></SPAN><U></U><U></U> </P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Siouan
Linguistics [mailto:<A href="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu"
target=_blank>SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</A>] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Jimm G.
GoodTracks<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, July 18, 2014 9:25 AM<BR><B>To:</B> <A
href="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu"
target=_blank>SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</A><BR><B>Subject:</B> Fw:
Carominga</SPAN><U></U><U></U></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><U></U><U></U> </P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: blue">Does anyone
have some thoughts to decipher the name: "Caromonga." The last part
appears to be "mange" (be in sitting position). The first could be
"kera" (cleared sky).</SPAN><U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><U></U><U></U> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"'></SPAN><U></U><U></U> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: whitesmoke"><B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <A
title=caxelolson@gmail.com href="mailto:caxelolson@gmail.com"
target=_blank>Greg Olson</A> </SPAN><U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: whitesmoke"><B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Sent:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Friday, July
11, 2014 4:48 PM</SPAN><U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: whitesmoke"><B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"'>To:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <A
title="mailto:jgoodtracks@gmail.com
CTRL + Click to follow link"
href="mailto:jgoodtracks@gmail.com" target=_blank>Jimm GoodTracks</A>
</SPAN><U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: whitesmoke"><B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Subject:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
Carominga</SPAN><U></U><U></U></P></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><U></U><U></U> </P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Jimm, while proofing my manuscript, I came across an
Ioway name I had overlooked. Caromonga. He is mentioned insome council
meetings during the 1840s. I notice the end of the name- monga
-appears in other names too. <U></U><U></U></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><U></U><U></U> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Greg<U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
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