<div dir="ltr">Sky,<br>Here is the reference for the published version of Hamilton's journal:<br><br>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hamilton, William</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">1885<span style> </span>Autobiography
of Reverend William Hamilton.<span style> </span><u>Transactions
and Reports of the Nebraska State Historical Society</u> 1:60-75.</p><p class="MsoNormal"><br></p><p class="MsoNormal">I'm sure I have a copy and could send you a PDF, but I'm out of town for a few days. Let me know if you get hold of it. If not, I'll send it when I get back.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br></p><p class="MsoNormal">Lori<br></p><p class="MsoNormal"><br></p></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 2:19 PM, Campbell, Sky <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:sky@omtribe.org" target="_blank">sky@omtribe.org</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Those names are listed with "manyi" in other sources. For example, Catlin has "Neu-mon-ya" and "Wash-ka-mon-ya" where that "manyi" can (usually) refer to "walk" or "always". Ioway treaties has spellings like "Washcommanee" and "Ne-o-mon-ni". What I'm thinking is that perhaps the "monga" came from looking a poor copies of old documents and that those "g" characters are most likely "y" characters. These characters are handwritten and it only takes one little movement to "close up" a "y" at the top and make it look like a "g".<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I've seen "Niyu Manyi" translated as walking rain, moving rain, and always raining. I tend to lean towards that last one.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">The name "Washka Manyi" as been translated as great walker, great marcher, and fast dancer so that one is a little tougher. I can see how "washka" could maybe be a mash-up of "washi" (dance) and "kątha" (fast). But when I decided to hit up a Ponca friend about his name "Washka" (that's his legal name, not just his "Indian name"), I found out the full form of his name is "Washka Mathi" which he translated as "Stands Strong." I know that "mathi" in Ponca/Omaha is a cognate to the Otoe-Ioway "manyi" and also that Otoes and Ioways had the form "mathi" a long time ago. So that got me to thinking that perhaps this Ioway individual might have roughly the same name as my Ponca friend (cognate forms notwithstanding). The only trouble with that theory is that I've never seen a term "washka" to mean "strong" like it does in Ponca. Dorsey shows the Jiwere cognate to "washka" as "brixe" (which is the term I am familiar with). So is this one of those instances where Otoe-Ioway had more in common with Dhegiha almost 200 years ago and "washka" was used to mean "strong" (or a similiar idea) but no longer does? It would seem likely since some of those translations for that name have the word "great" in them along with walker or marcher. Strong walker/strong marcher perhaps? But without more information, this is just yet another thing for me to keep in the back of my mind until I find that bit of information that helps clear it up. May that day come soon!<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Sky Campbell<u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Language Director<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Otoe-Missouria Tribe<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><a href="tel:%28580%29%20723-4466%2C%20ext.%20111" value="+15807234466" target="_blank">(580) 723-4466, ext. 111</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><a href="mailto:sky@omtribe.org" target="_blank">sky@omtribe.org</a><u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<p class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal">
<b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Siouan Linguistics [mailto:<a href="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu" target="_blank">SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Rory Larson<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 23, 2014 1:15 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu" target="_blank">SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Possible SPAM] Re: Carominga<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div></div><div><div class="h5"><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Sky, do we know what “monga” means in the other names, Washkamonga and Neumonga?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Best,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Rory<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Siouan Linguistics [<a href="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu" target="_blank">mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Campbell, Sky<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 23, 2014 9:28 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU" target="_blank">SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Possible SPAM] Re: Carominga<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Greg was gracious enough to let me see the copies he was drawing from and sure enough, it looks like "monga" in the name. But what I found interesting in that document was other familiar names...Washkamonga and Neumonga which we've seen elsewhere with the "monga" portion spelled with an "ny" instead of an "ng". I also looked at the 1842 Ioway census and found "Caromonga" but instead it was spelled "Caramonya". I did a quick Google search for "Caramonya" and got a couple hits on some books that had excerpts from Hamilton's journal. He describes "Caramonya" as "an old Indian who often visits us." Unfortunately he doesn't translate the name. My first reaction was to think that perhaps Hamilton might be using his own orthography that he used in his books but the rest of the spelling doesn't bear that out. I'd love to see more of Hamilton's journal to see if there are any clues in there. Anyone know where I could get a hold of such a thing?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">So it looks like that ending may actually be "manyi" (but perhaps not for the "ng/ny swap" that I suggested but maybe just a handwriting issue). And it looks like both versions were written by the same person (there is the same flourish on the capital "C" in both versions of the name).<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Council meeting image:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><img src="cid:image001.jpg@01CFA67E.4F680160" alt="Caromonga.jpg" border="0" height="141" width="455"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Ioway census image:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><img src="cid:image002.jpg@01CFA67E.4F680160" alt="Caramonya.jpg" border="0" height="108" width="456"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">So if it is "Cara-" instead of "Caro-", then that can open up more possibilities perhaps. But I'm still only coming up with ketą, kera and giro as my top suggestions for now.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Sky Campbell<u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Language Director<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Otoe-Missouria Tribe<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><a href="tel:%28580%29%20723-4466%2C%20ext.%20111" value="+15807234466" target="_blank">(580) 723-4466, ext. 111</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><a href="mailto:sky@omtribe.org" target="_blank">sky@omtribe.org</a><u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<p class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal">
<b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Siouan Linguistics [<a href="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu" target="_blank">mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jimm G. GoodTracks<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 22, 2014 9:35 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu" target="_blank">SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</a><br><b>Subject:</b> [Possible SPAM] Re: Carominga<br><b>Importance:</b> Low<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:blue">Well, going on what Jill says, the closet thing I can find is: </span><strong><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:#0033cc">šedánaŋe; šedánaŋa</span></strong><i><span style="font-size:8.0pt;color:black"> adv/prn. </span></i><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">that distant curvilinear object yonder; that distant land in sight. </span><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:blue">However, I'm not comfortable that it is a good fit for "Carominga." I don't know if the original notation was from a French or English document, and as such, cannot know to consider the phonetic value of the "C." </span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:blue">But going with the possibility of it being "Ké" as in "Kétan" (turtle), we have: <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><b><span style="color:#0033cc">kéta<sup>n</sup>; ketú<sup>n</sup>ha;</span></b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;color:black"> keton^a (SKN); qetan (DOR)<i> n. </i></span><span style="color:black">turtle. </span><b><span style="color:#0033cc">kéta<sup>n</sup> xúha</span></b><i><span style="font-size:8.0pt;color:black"> n. </span></i><span style="color:black">turtle shell.</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:black"> <u>Kéta<sup>n</sup></u> wáñi pí añáñe ke, It is said that <u>turtle</u> meat is good.</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;color:blue"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:#333399"> </span><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:black">kégrédheiñe; kégrédheiŋe</span></b><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:blue"> </span></b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:black">spotted (or) sand turtle<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:#333399"> </span><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:black">kehto<sup>n</sup>ha</span></b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;color:black"> (SKN)</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:blue"> </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:black">snapping turtle; snapper<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:#333399"> </span><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:black">kémarax^í<sup>n</sup>; kemárax^i<sup>n</sup></span></b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;color:black"> (LWR)</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:blue"> </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:black">snapping turtle</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:#333399"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:#333399"> </span><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:black">ké márax^i<sup>n</sup></span></b><i><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:black"> </span></i><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:black">“wrinkled turtle”</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:blue"> </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:black">mud turtle</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:#333399"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:#333399"> </span><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:black">ketá<sup>n</sup>na</span></b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;color:black"> (LWR)</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:blue"> </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:black">snapping turtle; snapper</span><span style="color:blue"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><span style="color:blue"> <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:blue"> But you see, the best contender is for: </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:#333399"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><b><span style="color:#0033cc"> kéra</span></b><i><span style="font-size:8.0pt;color:black"> adj. </span></i><span style="color:black">clear</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;color:black"> (<i>sky</i>)</span><span style="color:black">. </span><b><span style="color:#0033cc">Clear Day;</span></b><span style="color:#0033cc"> <b>Clear Sky Appears</b></span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;color:black"> (<i>a personal Buffalo Clan name</i>)<i> n. </i></span><span style="color:black">Kéra Tá<sup>n</sup>^i<sup>n</sup>; K^éra Tá<sup>n</sup>^i<sup>n</sup>.</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;color:black"> **<i>SEE</i>: <b>githóje; clear.</b></span><span style="color:blue"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><strong><span style="font-size:8.0pt;color:black"> </span></strong><span style="color:blue"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify">
<span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:blue">Also, thinking about the breakup of syllables as Justin suggest, there could be a connect with: </span><span style="color:blue"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify">
<strong><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#0033cc"> </span></strong><strong><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:#0033cc">romi<sup>n</sup>jí</span></strong><i><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:black"> n. </span></i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black">island.</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;color:black"> </span><span><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#0033cc">Romi<sup>n</sup>jí^iŋe(mi); Romí<sup>n</sup>chiŋe; Irómiŋhšji; Jéromi<sup>n</sup>je;</span></b></span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;color:black"> Romijiiŋemi (DOR); rúmitsí (MAX) (<i>a personal Buffalo Clan and Beaver Clan name</i>)<i> </i></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black">Little Island.</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;color:#0033cc"> </span><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#0033cc">Romihi<sup>n</sup>gu ~ Romihiŋu</span></b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;color:black"> (SKN)</span><strong><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#0033cc">;</span></strong><span style="font-size:8.0pt;color:black"> Romijiiŋemi (DOR)<i> </i>(<i>a personal Pigeon Clan name</i>)<i> </i></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black">Island.</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;color:black"> </span><strong><span style="font-size:8.0pt;color:blue"> </span></strong><span style="font-size:8.0pt;color:blue"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:blue"> And there was maybe the "g" is really a "j" which gives only one unlikely possibility: <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal">
<span style="color:blue" lang="ES"> </span><strong><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:#0033cc" lang="ES">má<sup>n</sup>je</span></strong><span style="font-size:8.0pt;color:black" lang="ES"> </span><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:blue" lang="ES">(?)(LWR)</span><b><span style="color:blue" lang="ES">; masjé</span></b><i><span style="color:blue" lang="ES"> adj/v.i. </span></i><span style="color:blue">hot, warm (<i>weather</i>).<b><u></u><u></u></b></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:blue">With the above, one could squeeze out a "Turtle Island," but, this possibility is not convincing to me. <u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:blue"> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><strong><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:blue">SO THEN, </span></strong><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:blue">in appreciation to everyone's input, I have arrived full circle to my original conjecture that the name that most likely fits the documented transcription is:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:blue"> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><strong><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:blue">KéraMánge</span></strong><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:blue"> (Clearing Day All About~ Prevailing). In this case, the "mánge" (sitting) is used in the sense of a positional verb, saying that the clearing of the sky, was extensive over a wide area such might be view on the breathe of the open plains. Further, such a rendering would be consistant to similar clan names.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:blue"> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:blue">I suggest one possibilty for Grey in working with his narrative is to include with the composed name, the original transcription, such as, "<strong>KéraMánge</strong> (Clearing Day All About) [Carminga (Document Source citations)]. Unless, new evidence appears, or further information, this is the best that can be made of that name.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:blue"> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:blue">Hánhe Pi, Good Night, Buenas Noches!<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:blue"> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:blue"> </span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;color:blue"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> <a href="mailto:Greer-J@MSSU.EDU" title="mailto:Greer-J@MSSU.EDU
CTRL + Click to follow link" target="_blank">Greer, Jill</a> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Sent:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Saturday, July 19, 2014 6:22 PM<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">To:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> <a href="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu" title="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu
CTRL + Click to follow link" target="_blank">SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</a> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Subject:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Re: Carominga<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal">Justin and Sky - <u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">You guys with your programming talents- impressive! <u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Just one question for Jimm and Greg - if the original person who transcribed the name was French (or a mixed blood literate in French- as was common around St. Joseph), the first syllabie "Ca" could even be /Sa/ or /se/ rather than Key, n'est pas? I hate to muddy the waters, but all it takes is one person to miss the cedilla and we've switched the sound totally. These old names are so slippery, but fascinating! <u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Best,<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Jill<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">On Jul 18, 2014, at 8:17 PM, "Mcbride, Justin" <<a href="mailto:jtmcbri@OSTATEMAIL.OKSTATE.EDU" title="mailto:jtmcbri@OSTATEMAIL.OKSTATE.EDU
CTRL + Click to follow link" target="_blank">jtmcbri@OSTATEMAIL.OKSTATE.EDU</a>><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div><p class="MsoNormal">When you showed me that program last year, Sky, I remember thinking, "Now, THIS is awesome!" As a guy who, for years, was asked questions like, "What's my Granddad's name mean?" on a weekly basis, only to be handed a string of indecipherable 'ah's, 'eh's, and hyphens with a few consonants mixed in for good measure, I would have relished the opportunity to see a list the possible permutations presented at once. Now, if you could just build in some phonotactic constraint logic and SQL interaction with some sort of lexical database to provide suggestions--you know, the easy stuff--you'd have the proverbial better mousetrap! :) Ah, it's fun to dream! <u></u><u></u></p>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">By the way, the name Kke Leze was the name of one of the last living male L1 Ks speakers. -jtm<u></u><u></u></p></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">
<u></u> <u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 7:34 PM, Sky Campbell <<a href="mailto:sky@legendreaders.com" target="_blank">sky@legendreaders.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Justin,</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I thought of that too (and even thought of turtle LOL...ke for ketą) but nothing came to mind for the rest. We have a precedent for this which is a name listed as "Ke Greðe" (Prairie Turtle/Spotted Turtle). I seem to remember one or two more but can't think of them off the top of my head.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">And thanks for pointing out the "g" possibly being the "j" sound. That is usually one of the first things I consider but it totally slipped my mind. Man, I really, REALLY need to finish my "character/morpheme swap" program for situations like this.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Sky</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Siouan Linguistics [mailto:<a href="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu" target="_blank">SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Mcbride, Justin<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 18, 2014 5:46 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu" target="_blank">SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: Carominga</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">
<u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">Howdy, Jimm,<u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">I wonder about the division of syllables into Caro and Monga. Is it possible that it could be Ca Romonga? I ask becasue, if it were a Kaw name, I'd think it might have something to do with kke, 'turtle,' which I'm pretty sure I've seen spelled as Ca in names before. I would also look at the r as representing either Ks y or l, and -ga part at the end (if it's not been switched, as Sky suggests, which I think is probable) as possibly representing like the Ks syllable j^e, which seems to happen fairly frequently in the names I've looked at. In short, I would expect something like kke yaNmaNj^e, which doesn't ring any bells at all in Ks. Now, I don't know much at all about IOM, lexically or phonologically--maybe this makes even less sense in IOM--but thought I just might throw that out there as food for thought. <u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">All the best,<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">-Justin<u></u><u></u></p></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">
<u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 3:54 PM, Sky Campbell <<a href="mailto:sky@legendreaders.com" target="_blank">sky@legendreaders.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">The "caro" portion has me thinking of a few possibilities:</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">kera (as you pointed out)</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">giro (happy)</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">The "monga" has me thinking of:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">mange (lying down)</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">mange (chest)</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">womanke (easy) <-- perhaps unlikely</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">mąnka (medicine) <-- seems the most unlikely but I thought I'd throw it in there</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Last is a "theory" that I have that perhaps somehow, some way, "monga" might be a form of "manyi/manye". Considering how many examples of "ng" and "ny" being swapped out (sunge/sunye, -inge/-inye, etc.), I wonder if perhaps it might be a version of "manyi". Especially since that word is used in so many names already and your friend noted that it appears in other names as well. This is just speculation, of course. Speaking of which, if they could provide examples of other names that use "monga", it might help us figure it out.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Sky</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Siouan Linguistics [mailto:<a href="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu" target="_blank">SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jimm G. GoodTracks<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 18, 2014 9:25 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu" target="_blank">SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Fw: Carominga</span><u></u><u></u></p></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">
<u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:blue">Does anyone have some thoughts to decipher the name: "Caromonga." The last part appears to be "mange" (be in sitting position). The first could be "kera" (cleared sky).</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> <a href="mailto:caxelolson@gmail.com" title="caxelolson@gmail.com" target="_blank">Greg Olson</a> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Sent:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Friday, July 11, 2014 4:48 PM</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">To:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> <a href="mailto:jgoodtracks@gmail.com" title="mailto:jgoodtracks@gmail.com
CTRL + Click to follow link" target="_blank">Jimm GoodTracks</a> </span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Subject:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Carominga</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal">Jimm, while proofing my manuscript, I came across an Ioway name I had overlooked. Caromonga. He is mentioned insome council meetings during the 1840s. I notice the end of the name- monga -appears in other names too. <u></u><u></u></p>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Greg<u></u><u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal">-- Manage your subscription at <a href="http://listserv.unl.edu/" target="_blank">http://listserv.unl.edu</a>. <a href="http://listserv.unl.edu/" target="_blank">listserv.unl.edu</a> lists do not accept incoming email from <a href="http://Yahoo.com" target="_blank">Yahoo.com</a>, <a href="http://AOL.com" target="_blank">AOL.com</a> or <a href="http://Dropbox.com" target="_blank">Dropbox.com</a> due to thier DMARC policies. <u></u><u></u></p>
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