<div dir="ltr"><div><div>Sky,<br></div>After I sent the previous email it occurred to me that the 1885 autobiography was probably not what you were looking for, but I wasn't able to check the document for a reference to "Caramonya" since I don't have access to my files right now. You cleared up that question with your last email.<br>
<br>An online search has reminded me that Hamilton's original journal is in the Lewis Henry Morgan archives, and I'm pretty sure I have a copy of it. In fact, the line about "Caramonya," the "old Indian who often visits us," sounds very familiar. I'll check on this when I get back to Decorah in a few days.<br>
<br></div>Lori<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 9:25 PM, Jimm G. GoodTracks <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jgoodtracks@gmail.com" target="_blank">jgoodtracks@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><u></u>
<div style="PADDING-TOP:15px;PADDING-LEFT:10px;PADDING-RIGHT:10px" link="blue" vlink="purple" name="Compose message area" lang="EN-US">
<div><font color="#0000ff" face="Times New Roman" size="4">Thanks Sky! Great
read that fills in and colors some of the early day life and scenes in the life
of the people. </font></div>
<div style="FONT:10pt Tahoma">
<div><br></div>
<div style="BACKGROUND:#f5f5f5">
<div><b>From:</b> <a title="sky@LEGENDREADERS.COM" href="mailto:sky@LEGENDREADERS.COM" target="_blank">Sky Campbell</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 24, 2014 7:06 PM</div><div><div class="h5">
<div><b>To:</b> <a title="SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu" href="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu" target="_blank">SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</a> </div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Possible SPAM] Re: Carominga</div></div></div></div></div><div><div class="h5">
<div><br></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d">Thanks
for the idea but unfortunately I already have that. It isn't his journal
but instead Hamilton was asked to write an autobiography. This
autobiography is great reading and is in the form of a letter but unfortunately
it isn't his journal :(.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d">I'll
attach it to this email just in case someone is interested. Jimm, I
believe you've seen this before but if not, happy reading!
:)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d">Sky<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div style="BORDER-TOP:#b5c4df 1pt solid;BORDER-RIGHT:medium none;BORDER-BOTTOM:medium none;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;PADDING-TOP:3pt;PADDING-LEFT:0in;BORDER-LEFT:medium none;PADDING-RIGHT:0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Siouan Linguistics
[mailto:<a href="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu" target="_blank">SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Lori
Stanley<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 24, 2014 3:12 PM<br><b>To:</b>
<a href="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu" target="_blank">SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Possible SPAM] Re:
Carominga<u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-BOTTOM:12pt">Sky,<br>Here is the reference for
the published version of Hamilton's journal:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hamilton,
William<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">1885
Autobiography of Reverend William Hamilton. <u>Transactions and Reports of
the Nebraska State Historical Society</u> 1:60-75.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I'm sure I have a
copy and could send you a PDF, but I'm out of town for a few days. Let me
know if you get hold of it. If not, I'll send it when I get
back.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Lori<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-BOTTOM:12pt"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 2:19 PM, Campbell, Sky <<a href="mailto:sky@omtribe.org" target="_blank">sky@omtribe.org</a>>
wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d">Those
names are listed with "manyi" in other sources. For example, Catlin has
"Neu-mon-ya" and "Wash-ka-mon-ya" where that "manyi" can (usually) refer to
"walk" or "always". Ioway treaties has spellings like "Washcommanee" and
"Ne-o-mon-ni". What I'm thinking is that perhaps the "monga" came from
looking a poor copies of old documents and that those "g" characters are most
likely "y" characters. These characters are handwritten and it only takes
one little movement to "close up" a "y" at the top and make it look like a
"g".</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d">I've
seen "Niyu Manyi" translated as walking rain, moving rain, and always
raining. I tend to lean towards that last one.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d">The
name "Washka Manyi" as been translated as great walker, great marcher, and fast
dancer so that one is a little tougher. I can see how "washka" could maybe
be a mash-up of "washi" (dance) and "kątha" (fast). But when I decided to
hit up a Ponca friend about his name "Washka" (that's his legal name, not just
his "Indian name"), I found out the full form of his name is "Washka Mathi"
which he translated as "Stands Strong." I know that "mathi" in Ponca/Omaha
is a cognate to the Otoe-Ioway "manyi" and also that Otoes and Ioways had the
form "mathi" a long time ago. So that got me to thinking that perhaps this
Ioway individual might have roughly the same name as my Ponca friend (cognate
forms notwithstanding). The only trouble with that theory is that I've
never seen a term "washka" to mean "strong" like it does in Ponca. Dorsey
shows the Jiwere cognate to "washka" as "brixe" (which is the term I am familiar
with). So is this one of those instances where Otoe-Ioway had more in
common with Dhegiha almost 200 years ago and "washka" was used to mean "strong"
(or a similiar idea) but no longer does? It would seem likely since some
of those translations for that name have the word "great" in them along with
walker or marcher. Strong walker/strong marcher perhaps? But without
more information, this is just yet another thing for me to keep in the back of
my mind until I find that bit of information that helps clear it up. May
that day come soon!</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE:18pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d">Sky
Campbell</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d">Language
Director</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d">Otoe-Missouria
Tribe</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d"><a href="tel:%28580%29%20723-4466%2C%20ext.%20111" target="_blank">(580) 723-4466,
ext. 111</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d"><a href="mailto:sky@omtribe.org" target="_blank">sky@omtribe.org</a></span><u></u><u></u></p></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<div style="BORDER-TOP:#b5c4df 1pt solid;BORDER-RIGHT:medium none;BORDER-BOTTOM:medium none;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;PADDING-TOP:3pt;PADDING-LEFT:0in;BORDER-LEFT:medium none;PADDING-RIGHT:0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Siouan Linguistics
[mailto:<a href="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu" target="_blank">SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Rory
Larson<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 23, 2014 1:15 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu" target="_blank">SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Possible SPAM]
Re: Carominga</span><u></u><u></u></p></div></div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d">Sky,
do we know what “monga” means in the other names, Washkamonga and
Neumonga?</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d">Best,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d">Rory</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d">
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;COLOR:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div style="BORDER-TOP:#b5c4df 1pt solid;BORDER-RIGHT:medium none;BORDER-BOTTOM:medium none;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;PADDING-TOP:3pt;PADDING-LEFT:0in;BORDER-LEFT:medium none;PADDING-RIGHT:0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Siouan Linguistics
[<a href="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu" target="_blank">mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Campbell,
Sky<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 23, 2014 9:28 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU" target="_blank">SIOUAN@LISTSERV.UNL.EDU</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Possible SPAM]
Re: Carominga</span><u></u><u></u></p></div></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d">Greg
was gracious enough to let me see the copies he was drawing from and sure
enough, it looks like "monga" in the name. But what I found interesting in
that document was other familiar names...Washkamonga and Neumonga which we've
seen elsewhere with the "monga" portion spelled with an "ny" instead of an
"ng". I also looked at the 1842 Ioway census and found "Caromonga" but
instead it was spelled "Caramonya". I did a quick Google search for
"Caramonya" and got a couple hits on some books that had excerpts from
Hamilton's journal. He describes "Caramonya" as "an old Indian who often
visits us." Unfortunately he doesn't translate the name. My first
reaction was to think that perhaps Hamilton might be using his own orthography
that he used in his books but the rest of the spelling doesn't bear that
out. I'd love to see more of Hamilton's journal to see if there are any
clues in there. Anyone know where I could get a hold of such a
thing?</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d">So
it looks like that ending may actually be "manyi" (but perhaps not for the
"ng/ny swap" that I suggested but maybe just a handwriting issue). And it
looks like both versions were written by the same person (there is the same
flourish on the capital "C" in both versions of the name).</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d">Council
meeting image:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d"><img alt="Caromonga.jpg" src="cid:331057441567410A8E9FF95244CFC7E6@JGDellLaptop" border="0" height="141" width="455"></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d">Ioway
census image:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d"><img alt="Caramonya.jpg" src="cid:17F5F2CD8C9247F9B431E54B70209760@JGDellLaptop" border="0" height="108" width="456"></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d">So
if it is "Cara-" instead of "Caro-", then that can open up more possibilities
perhaps. But I'm still only coming up with ketą, kera and giro as my top
suggestions for now.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE:18pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d">Sky
Campbell</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d">Language
Director</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d">Otoe-Missouria
Tribe</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d"><a href="tel:%28580%29%20723-4466%2C%20ext.%20111" target="_blank">(580) 723-4466,
ext. 111</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d"><a href="mailto:sky@omtribe.org" target="_blank">sky@omtribe.org</a></span><u></u><u></u></p></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div style="BORDER-TOP:#b5c4df 1pt solid;BORDER-RIGHT:medium none;BORDER-BOTTOM:medium none;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;PADDING-TOP:3pt;PADDING-LEFT:0in;BORDER-LEFT:medium none;PADDING-RIGHT:0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Siouan Linguistics
[<a href="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu" target="_blank">mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jimm G.
GoodTracks<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 22, 2014 9:35 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu" target="_blank">SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</a><br><b>Subject:</b> [Possible SPAM] Re:
Carominga<br><b>Importance:</b> Low</span><u></u><u></u></p></div></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:13.5pt;COLOR:blue">Well, going on what Jill says, the closet
thing I can find is: </span><strong><span style="FONT-SIZE:13.5pt;COLOR:#0033cc">šedánaŋe;
šedánaŋa</span></strong><i><span style="FONT-SIZE:8pt;COLOR:black">
adv/prn. </span></i><span style="FONT-SIZE:13.5pt;COLOR:black">that
distant curvilinear object yonder; that distant land in sight.
</span><span style="FONT-SIZE:13.5pt;COLOR:blue">However, I'm not comfortable
that it is a good fit for "Carominga." I don't know if the original
notation was from a French or English document, and as such, cannot know to
consider the phonetic value of the "C." </span><u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:13.5pt;COLOR:blue">But going with the possibility of it
being "Ké" as in "Kétan" (turtle), we
have: </span><u></u><u></u></p></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="TEXT-ALIGN:justify"><b><span style="COLOR:#0033cc">kéta<sup>n</sup>; ketú<sup>n</sup>ha;</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE:8pt;COLOR:black"> keton^a (SKN); qetan (DOR)<i>
n. </i></span><span style="COLOR:black">turtle.
</span><b><span style="COLOR:#0033cc">kéta<sup>n</sup> xúha</span></b><i><span style="FONT-SIZE:8pt;COLOR:black"> n. </span></i><span style="COLOR:black">turtle shell.</span><span style="FONT-SIZE:9pt;COLOR:black"> <u>Kéta<sup>n</sup></u> wáñi
pí añáñe ke, It is said that <u>turtle</u> meat is
good.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="TEXT-ALIGN:justify"><span style="FONT-SIZE:9pt;COLOR:#333399"> </span><b><span style="FONT-SIZE:9pt;COLOR:black">kégrédheiñe; kégrédheiŋe</span></b><b><span style="FONT-SIZE:9pt;COLOR:blue">
</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE:9pt;COLOR:black">spotted (or) sand
turtle</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="TEXT-ALIGN:justify"><span style="FONT-SIZE:9pt;COLOR:#333399"> </span><b><span style="FONT-SIZE:9pt;COLOR:black">kehto<sup>n</sup>ha</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE:8pt;COLOR:black"> (SKN)</span><span style="FONT-SIZE:9pt;COLOR:blue">
</span><span style="FONT-SIZE:9pt;COLOR:black">snapping turtle;
snapper</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="TEXT-ALIGN:justify"><span style="FONT-SIZE:9pt;COLOR:#333399"> </span><b><span style="FONT-SIZE:9pt;COLOR:black">kémarax^í<sup>n</sup>;
kemárax^i<sup>n</sup></span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE:8pt;COLOR:black">
(LWR)</span><span style="FONT-SIZE:9pt;COLOR:blue">
</span><span style="FONT-SIZE:9pt;COLOR:black">snapping
turtle</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="TEXT-ALIGN:justify"><span style="FONT-SIZE:9pt;COLOR:#333399"> </span><b><span style="FONT-SIZE:9pt;COLOR:black">ké márax^i<sup>n</sup></span></b><i><span style="FONT-SIZE:9pt;COLOR:black"> </span></i><span style="FONT-SIZE:9pt;COLOR:black">“wrinkled turtle”</span><span style="FONT-SIZE:9pt;COLOR:blue"> </span><span style="FONT-SIZE:9pt;COLOR:black">mud turtle</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="TEXT-ALIGN:justify"><span style="FONT-SIZE:9pt;COLOR:#333399"> </span><b><span style="FONT-SIZE:9pt;COLOR:black">ketá<sup>n</sup>na</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE:8pt;COLOR:black"> (LWR)</span><span style="FONT-SIZE:9pt;COLOR:blue">
</span><span style="FONT-SIZE:9pt;COLOR:black">snapping turtle;
snapper</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="TEXT-ALIGN:justify"><span style="COLOR:blue"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="TEXT-ALIGN:justify"><span style="FONT-SIZE:13.5pt;COLOR:blue"> But
you see, the best contender is for: </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="TEXT-ALIGN:justify"><b><span style="COLOR:#0033cc"> kéra</span></b><i><span style="FONT-SIZE:8pt;COLOR:black"> adj. </span></i><span style="COLOR:black">clear</span><span style="FONT-SIZE:8pt;COLOR:black">
(<i>sky</i>)</span><span style="COLOR:black">. </span><b><span style="COLOR:#0033cc">Clear Day;</span></b><span style="COLOR:#0033cc">
<b>Clear Sky Appears</b></span><span style="FONT-SIZE:8pt;COLOR:black">
(<i>a personal Buffalo Clan name</i>)<i> n. </i></span><span style="COLOR:black">Kéra Tá<sup>n</sup>^i<sup>n</sup>; K^éra
Tá<sup>n</sup>^i<sup>n</sup>.</span><span style="FONT-SIZE:8pt;COLOR:black"> **<i>SEE</i>: <b>githóje;
clear.</b></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="TEXT-ALIGN:justify"><strong><span style="FONT-SIZE:8pt;COLOR:black"> </span></strong><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="TEXT-ALIGN:justify"><span style="FONT-SIZE:13.5pt;COLOR:blue">Also, thinking about the breakup of
syllables as Justin suggest, there could be a connect with:
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="TEXT-ALIGN:justify"><strong><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;COLOR:#0033cc"> </span></strong><strong><span style="FONT-SIZE:13.5pt;COLOR:#0033cc">romi<sup>n</sup>jí</span></strong><i><span style="FONT-SIZE:7pt;COLOR:black"> n. </span></i><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;COLOR:black">island.</span><span style="FONT-SIZE:8pt;COLOR:black"> </span><b><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;COLOR:#0033cc">Romi<sup>n</sup>jí^iŋe(mi);
Romí<sup>n</sup>chiŋe; Irómiŋhšji; Jéromi<sup>n</sup>je;</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE:8pt;COLOR:black"> Romijiiŋemi (DOR); rúmitsí (MAX)
(<i>a personal Buffalo Clan and Beaver Clan name</i>)<i> </i></span><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;COLOR:black">Little Island.</span><span style="FONT-SIZE:8pt;COLOR:#0033cc"> </span><b><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;COLOR:#0033cc">Romihi<sup>n</sup>gu ~
Romihiŋu</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE:8pt;COLOR:black">
(SKN)</span><strong><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;COLOR:#0033cc">;</span></strong><span style="FONT-SIZE:8pt;COLOR:black"> Romijiiŋemi (DOR)<i> </i>(<i>a
personal Pigeon Clan name</i>)<i> </i></span><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;COLOR:black">Island.</span><span style="FONT-SIZE:8pt;COLOR:black"> </span><strong><span style="FONT-SIZE:8pt;COLOR:blue"> </span></strong><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:13.5pt;COLOR:blue"> And there was maybe the "g" is
really a "j" which gives only one unlikely possibility:
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR:blue" lang="ES"> </span><strong><span style="FONT-SIZE:13.5pt;COLOR:#0033cc" lang="ES">má<sup>n</sup>je</span></strong><span style="FONT-SIZE:8pt;COLOR:black" lang="ES"> </span><span style="FONT-SIZE:13.5pt;COLOR:blue" lang="ES">(?)(LWR)</span><b><span style="COLOR:blue" lang="ES">; masjé</span></b><i><span style="COLOR:blue" lang="ES"> adj/v.i. </span></i><span style="COLOR:blue">hot, warm (<i>weather</i>).</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:13.5pt;COLOR:blue">With the above, one could squeeze out a
"Turtle Island," but, this possibility is not convincing to me.
</span><u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:13.5pt;COLOR:blue"> </span><u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><strong><span style="FONT-SIZE:13.5pt;COLOR:blue">SO THEN, </span></strong><span style="FONT-SIZE:13.5pt;COLOR:blue">in appreciation to everyone's input, I
have arrived full circle to my original conjecture that the name that most
likely fits the documented transcription is:</span><u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:13.5pt;COLOR:blue"> </span><u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><strong><span style="FONT-SIZE:13.5pt;COLOR:blue">KéraMánge</span></strong><span style="FONT-SIZE:13.5pt;COLOR:blue"> (Clearing Day All About~
Prevailing). In this case, the "mánge" (sitting) is used in the sense of a
positional verb, saying that the clearing of the sky, was
extensive over a wide area such might be view on the breathe of the
open plains. Further, such a rendering would be consistant to similar clan
names.</span><u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:13.5pt;COLOR:blue"> </span><u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:13.5pt;COLOR:blue">I suggest one possibilty for Grey in
working with his narrative is to include with the composed name, the original
transcription, such as, "<strong>KéraMánge</strong> (Clearing Day All About)
[Carminga (Document Source citations)]. Unless, new evidence
appears, or further information, this is the best that can be made of that
name.</span><u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:13.5pt;COLOR:blue"> </span><u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:13.5pt;COLOR:blue">Hánhe Pi, Good Night, Buenas
Noches!</span><u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:13.5pt;COLOR:blue"> </span><u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:13.5pt;COLOR:blue"> </span><u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> </span><u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="BACKGROUND:whitesmoke"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> <a title="mailto:Greer-J@MSSU.EDU
CTRL + Click to follow link" href="mailto:Greer-J@MSSU.EDU" target="_blank">Greer, Jill</a>
</span><u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="BACKGROUND:whitesmoke"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Sent:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Saturday, July 19,
2014 6:22 PM</span><u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="BACKGROUND:whitesmoke"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">To:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> <a title="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu
CTRL + Click to follow link" href="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu" target="_blank">SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</a>
</span><u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="BACKGROUND:whitesmoke"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Subject:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Re:
Carominga</span><u></u><u></u></p></div></div></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Justin and Sky -
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">You guys with your
programming talents- impressive! <u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Just one question
for Jimm and Greg - if the original person who transcribed the name was
French (or a mixed blood literate in French- as was common around St.
Joseph), the first syllabie "Ca" could even be /Sa/ or /se/
rather than Key, n'est pas? I hate to muddy the waters, but all it
takes is one person to miss the cedilla and we've switched the sound totally.
These old names are so slippery, but fascinating!
<u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Best,<u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Jill<u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Jul 18, 2014,
at 8:17 PM, "Mcbride, Justin" <<a title="mailto:jtmcbri@OSTATEMAIL.OKSTATE.EDU
CTRL + Click to follow link" href="mailto:jtmcbri@OSTATEMAIL.OKSTATE.EDU" target="_blank">jtmcbri@OSTATEMAIL.OKSTATE.EDU</a>><u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-BOTTOM:12pt"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">When you showed me
that program last year, Sky, I remember thinking, "Now, THIS is awesome!" As a
guy who, for years, was asked questions like, "What's my Granddad's name mean?"
on a weekly basis, only to be handed a string of indecipherable 'ah's, 'eh's,
and hyphens with a few consonants mixed in for good measure, I would have
relished the opportunity to see a list the possible permutations presented at
once. Now, if you could just build in some phonotactic constraint logic and SQL
interaction with some sort of lexical database to provide suggestions--you know,
the easy stuff--you'd have the proverbial better mousetrap! :) Ah,
it's fun to dream! <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">By the way, the
name Kke Leze was the name of one of the last living male L1 Ks speakers.
-jtm<u></u><u></u></p></div></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-BOTTOM:12pt"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, Jul 18,
2014 at 7:34 PM, Sky Campbell <<a href="mailto:sky@legendreaders.com" target="_blank">sky@legendreaders.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d">Justin,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d">I
thought of that too (and even thought of turtle LOL...ke for ketą) but nothing
came to mind for the rest. We have a precedent for this which is a name
listed as "Ke Greðe" (Prairie Turtle/Spotted Turtle). I seem to remember
one or two more but can't think of them off the top of my
head.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d">And
thanks for pointing out the "g" possibly being the "j" sound. That is
usually one of the first things I consider but it totally slipped my mind.
Man, I really, REALLY need to finish my "character/morpheme swap" program for
situations like this.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d">Sky</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<div style="BORDER-TOP:#b5c4df 1pt solid;BORDER-RIGHT:medium none;BORDER-BOTTOM:medium none;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;PADDING-TOP:3pt;PADDING-LEFT:0in;BORDER-LEFT:medium none;PADDING-RIGHT:0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Siouan Linguistics
[mailto:<a href="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu" target="_blank">SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Mcbride,
Justin<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 18, 2014 5:46 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu" target="_blank">SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re:
Carominga</span><u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Howdy,
Jimm,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I wonder about the
division of syllables into Caro and Monga. Is it possible that it could be Ca
Romonga? I ask becasue, if it were a Kaw name, I'd think it might have something
to do with kke, 'turtle,' which I'm pretty sure I've seen spelled as Ca in names
before. I would also look at the r as representing either Ks y or l, and -ga
part at the end (if it's not been switched, as Sky suggests, which I think is
probable) as possibly representing like the Ks syllable j^e, which seems to
happen fairly frequently in the names I've looked at. In short, I would expect
something like kke yaNmaNj^e, which doesn't ring any bells at all in Ks. Now, I
don't know much at all about IOM, lexically or phonologically--maybe this makes
even less sense in IOM--but thought I just might throw that out there as food
for thought. <u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">All the
best,<u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-Justin<u></u><u></u></p></div></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-BOTTOM:12pt"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, Jul 18,
2014 at 3:54 PM, Sky Campbell <<a href="mailto:sky@legendreaders.com" target="_blank">sky@legendreaders.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d">The
"caro" portion has me thinking of a few possibilities:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d">kera
(as you pointed out)</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d">giro
(happy)</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d">The
"monga" has me thinking of:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d">mange
(lying down)</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d">mange
(chest)</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d">womanke
(easy) <-- perhaps unlikely</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d">mąnka
(medicine) <-- seems the most unlikely but I thought I'd throw it in
there</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d">Last
is a "theory" that I have that perhaps somehow, some way, "monga" might be a
form of "manyi/manye". Considering how many examples of "ng" and "ny"
being swapped out (sunge/sunye, -inge/-inye, etc.), I wonder if perhaps it might
be a version of "manyi". Especially since that word is used in so many
names already and your friend noted that it appears in other names as well.
This is just speculation, of course. Speaking of which, if they
could provide examples of other names that use "monga", it might help us figure
it out.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d">Sky</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div style="BORDER-TOP:#b5c4df 1pt solid;BORDER-RIGHT:medium none;BORDER-BOTTOM:medium none;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;PADDING-TOP:3pt;PADDING-LEFT:0in;BORDER-LEFT:medium none;PADDING-RIGHT:0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Siouan Linguistics
[mailto:<a href="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu" target="_blank">SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jimm G.
GoodTracks<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 18, 2014 9:25 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu" target="_blank">SIOUAN@listserv.unl.edu</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Fw:
Carominga</span><u></u><u></u></p></div></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:13.5pt;COLOR:blue">Does anyone have some thoughts to
decipher the name: "Caromonga." The last part appears to be "mange" (be in
sitting position). The first could be "kera" (cleared
sky).</span><u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="BACKGROUND:whitesmoke"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> <a title="caxelolson@gmail.com" href="mailto:caxelolson@gmail.com" target="_blank">Greg
Olson</a> </span><u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="BACKGROUND:whitesmoke"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Sent:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Friday, July 11,
2014 4:48 PM</span><u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="BACKGROUND:whitesmoke"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">To:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> <a title="mailto:jgoodtracks@gmail.com
CTRL + Click to follow link" href="mailto:jgoodtracks@gmail.com" target="_blank">Jimm GoodTracks</a>
</span><u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="BACKGROUND:whitesmoke"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Subject:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
Carominga</span><u></u><u></u></p></div></div></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Jimm, while
proofing my manuscript, I came across an Ioway name I had overlooked.
Caromonga. He is mentioned insome council meetings during the 1840s. I
notice the end of the name- monga -appears in other names too. <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Greg<u></u><u></u></p></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Lori A. Stanley<br>Professor of
Anthropology<br>Luther College<br>700 College Drive<br>Decorah, Iowa
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Lori A. Stanley<br>Professor of Anthropology<br>Luther College<br>700 College Drive<br>Decorah, Iowa 52101<br>563-387-1283
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