idioms (was Phrases & pronouns)

[Carolyn L. Ostrander]

Nicole,
I agree with you that the definition of idiom you gave seems wrong.

Definitions of "idiom" which refer to another language are absolutely not
correct. The key to idiomatic phrases is that the primary definition of
the words involved point to a different meaning from the social meaning
that native users understand by the phrase.

Example:
Phrase "He kicked the bucket"
Meaning "He died"

Even a native speaker/signer can't learn the special meaning of the
idiom without context or cultural knowledge. That's why learning idioms
poses a special challenge for foreign learners and for children with
language impairments.

Notice that in the example above, there is another way to say the same
thing with a single word, but that's an accident.

Example: "She buttered her bread"
Meaning" "She chose her fate"

Even though there's a word for word match, the example is still an idiom.

But no matter what, I can't define idiom by comparing to another language.

Example: "Occupe-toi de tes onions" (French)
Literal translation: "tend - you of your onions"
Ordinary translation: "Tend your onions"
Idiomatic Meaning in French, translated to English:
"Stay out of other people's business"
(or as we used to say as kids, "Mind your own beeswax")

The ordinary (that is, grammatical in English) translation of this french
phrase doesn't match word for word with the french, but that doesn't mean
that a gardener who is really talking about raising onions is using an
idiom.

It's only an idiom when it refers to a meaning that you can't recover by
looking at the definitions of the individual words, inside the language.

clo

 On Sat, 20 Apr 2002, Nicole Kuplenik wrote:

 >   2. What is the definition of idiomatic signs? In Slovenia, mostly
> signs which can't be translated with a single (spoken) Slovene word are
> thought of as idioms, but I don't think that's quite correct (e.g. the
> sign EVERY-DAY or ALL-NIGHT-LONG).
>  And what would be the difference between idioms and compound signs
> (e.g. TEACHER, consisting of TEACH + PERSON)?
>
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Carolyn Ostrander                       clostran at syr.edu
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