Phonology of numerals

[Carol Padden]

I'm heading out of town tomorrow for a week, so I wanted to
reply quickly to this discussion.  SHOW, LEAD, HELP, etc. have
simultaneous movement, different hands, but have contact with
one another.  The numerals are different in that the hands move
independently, and have different handshapes. Christian is right
in that the examples I've seen and from DGS, the left hand is
unmarked 5.  But it is notable that the handshapes are different
and the movement does not involve contact between the hands
throughout, making them not quite like SHOW, LEAD, etc.

I've always thought numerals represented a special category -
some sign languages use a one handed system, many use a
two-handed system, and the way the two hands are managed
to represent not only numerals but also a base system of 5 or
10 is what makes them interesting lexically. I don't think anyone
has argued in print that these represent two one-handed signs,
so I guess I should sit down and see if I can.

Carol


>Carol,
>
>Thanks for your message. I see your point about the signs SIXTEEN to
>NINETEEN in BSL - is anyone in print arguing that these signs, and
>similar signs in other signed languages such as LIS (Italian SL) and
>DGS (German SL), are indeed two one-handed signs? Would the argument
>be that they represent some kind of simultaneous compound? The odd
>thing about them in BSL is that, like some two-handed lexical signs,
>they also occur without the non-dominant hand and yet this does not
>change the meaning. I do not know if the same is true of numerals in
>LIS or DGS.
>
>I am familiar with the fact that classifier constructions are not
>constrained by the symmetry or dominance condition :-). However, I
>believe that the examples from Auslan cannot be analysed as
>classifier constructions. These are clearly signs from the
>monomorphemic core native lexicon. The Auslan signs MIDDLE and
>COINCIDENCE involve a dominant B oriented pinky side downwards making
>contact with a non-dominant Middle (the 5 hand with the middle finger
>bent at the base joint). The signs LAST and MENSTRUAL-PERIOD involve
>a dominant B handshape contacting a non-dominant I. They dominant
>hand in each case is clearly the B handshape which moves and not the
>Middle or I which are held still. The last sign (MENSTRUAL-PERIOD)
>may have lexicalised from an enumeration complex meaning FOURTH (as
>in 'fourth week'), but I do not feel it can be analysed as
>multimorphemic synchronically. The other three do not seem to allow
>any kind of multimorphemic analysis.
>
>The dominance condition clearly holds for the majority of two-handed
>signs in Auslan. In one analysis, I found that over 95% of two-handed
>signs used an unmarked non-dominant handshape (5, G, S, C, O, A etc),
>so the language clearly favours this pattern. But there do appear to
>be some exceptions, and the four I have given here clearly use marked
>non-dominant handshapes.
>
>Adam
>
>>Adam --
>>
>>I would argue that the reason why these forms are not constrained
>>by the symmetry (or dominance) condition is because they are not
>>two-handed signs, but two one-handed signs. I'm not sure I understand
>>how your forms look, but I've seen similar "two-handed" numeral
>>forms in other sign languages (e./g. Italian Sign Language) and a
>>case could be made that these function as if both hands are one-
>>handed.  Many classifier complexes are like these - the left hand
>>is VEHICLE and the right hand is PERSON, 'walking past the car.'
>>Movements can be simultaneous, and even lexicalized to some
>>extent, but  because both hands can vary independently and
>>meaningfully, they are not two-handed signs.
>>
>>Carol
>>
>>
>>>BSL has at least four signs that appear not to be constrained by
>>>Battison's (1978) symmetry condition. These are the signs SIXTEEN,
>>>SEVENTEEN, EIGHTEEN and NINETEEN. These signs have a two-handed
>>>variant in which the hands have the same location (neutral space) and
>>>movement (an alternating up and down movement) but different hand
>>>configurations on the dominant and non-dominant hand (the
>>>non-dominant hand has a 5 handshape, while the other hand may have an
>>>I, for example, in one form of the sign SIXTEEN). To my knowledge,
>>>these variants are not found in the related variety, Auslan.
>>>
>>>Bencie Woll pointed out to me that numerals in BSL and Auslan have
>>>other distinctive formational properties, such as hand configurations
>>>not found in other core native signs, as in the closed hand with
>>>only the pinky and ring finger extended used in some varieties of BSL
>>>and Auslan for SEVEN, and the extended thumb, index, middle and ring
>>>used in some varieties for NINE. Only signs related to SEVEN and
>>>NINE use these handshapes (e.g., SEVENTEEN, NINETY, LAST-WEEK etc).
>>>
>>>I believe the same claim has been made in the literature for ASL
>>>SEVEN.
>>>
>>>So do other sign languages use different formational features and
>>>constraints for numerals? Can someone point me in the direction of
>>>any published discussion of this issue (I seem to recall some
>>>discussion of this on SLLING-L some time ago)?
>>>
>>>Cheers,
>>>Adam
>>>
>>>PS Auslan also has a very small number of signs that appear to break
>>>Battison's (1978) dominance condition, using marked handshapes on the
>>>non-dominant hand.
>>>
>>>----------------------
>>>Adam Schembri
>>>Centre for Deaf Studies
>>>University of Bristol
>>>8 Woodland Rd
>>>Bristol BS8 1TN
>>>United Kingdom
>>>Telephone: +44 (0)117 954 6909
>>>Textphone: +44 (0)117 954 6920
>>>Fax: +44 (0)117 954 6921
>>>Email: Adam.Schembri at bristol.ac.uk
>>>Website: www.bris.ac.uk/Depts/DeafStudies
>>
>>
>>--
>>
>>-----------------------------------------------------
>>Carol A. Padden
>>Professor
>>Department of Communication
>>University of California, San Diego
>>La Jolla, CA 92093-0503
>>858.534.7571 tty
>>858.534.7315 fax  ~ cpadden at ucsd.edu
>>-----------------------------------------------------
>
>
>--


--

-----------------------------------------------------
Carol A. Padden
Professor
Department of Communication
University of California, San Diego
La Jolla, CA 92093-0503
858.534.7571 tty
858.534.7315 fax  ~ cpadden at ucsd.edu
-----------------------------------------------------