<HTML><BODY style="word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; -khtml-line-break: after-white-space; ">Both Auslan (Australian Sign Language) and BSL (British Sign Language) have seen traditional signs replaced by autochthonous signs for countries and cities, so it's definitely not just an ASL thing. There is, however, a bit of backlash amongst some BSL teachers here who reject the introduced signs, and continue using the traditional BSL signs for UNITED-STATES-OF-AMERICA, ITALY, GERMANY, IRELAND etc. <DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>I'm not aware of any empirical research into how widely used traditional or recently borrowed country signs are in BSL, but a little work on Auslan (still being coded) shows that it probably varies according to the sign in question: the introduced sign for UNITED-STATES-OF-AMERICA seems to be used by signers of all age groups across the country , but the newer sign CHINA appears more restricted.</DIV><DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"><DIV>Americans wouldn't be happy to see the traditional sign for USA in Auslan regain much ground - it's identical to a variant of the ASL sign for DIRTY or PIG (folk etymology in Australia for our sign is, however, 'Uncle Sam's beard').</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>As an excellent guide to how future publications ought to deal with the lack of standardisation in sign language nomenclature, the following new book includes (1) a list of acronyms and initialisms for particular signs language names used by the book's contributors (e.g., HZJ), (2) spoken language equivalents (e.g., Hrvatski Znakovni Jezik), (3) English translations if needed (Croatian Sign Language) and (4) Ethnologue codes (where available, e.g. CSQ). Well done to Pamela, Roland and Markus for leading the way on this.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Perniss, P., Pfau, R. & Steinbach, M. (Eds.), (2007). Visible variation: Comparative studies on sign language structure. Berlin: Mouton de Gruyter. </DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Adam</DIV><DIV><BR><DIV> <SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><DIV>Adam C Schembri, PhD</DIV><DIV>Senior Research Fellow</DIV><DIV>Deafness, Cognition and Language (DCAL) Research Centre</DIV><DIV>University College London</DIV><DIV>49 Gordon Square</DIV><DIV>London WC1H 0PD</DIV><DIV>United Kingdom</DIV><DIV>Tel: +44 20 7679 8680</DIV><DIV><FONT class="Apple-style-span" color="#001DE0"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="text-decoration: underline;"><A href="http://www.dcal.ucl.ac.uk/team/adam_schembri.html">http://www.dcal.ucl.ac.uk/team/adam_schembri.html</A></SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"></SPAN> </DIV><BR><DIV><DIV>On 5 Sep 2007, at 22:29, Albert Bickford wrote:</DIV><BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"> <DIV><FONT face="Courier New" size="2">The tendency towards using an internal name as an external one is not limited to Gallaudet or to sign languages.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Courier New" size="2"></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Courier New" size="2">There is, for example, the tendency to borrow into ASL (and probably other sign languages) the name of a country that is used by Deaf in that country. Thus, signs for CHINA, JAPAN, AUSTRALIA, RUSSIA, and probably others have changed or are in the process of changing.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Courier New" size="2"></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Courier New" size="2">Outside the realm of sign linguistics, it has become increasingly common for indigenous groups and their speakers over the past couple decades to reject names given to them by others and to ask/insist/agitate to be called by their own name for themselves. Often, the etymology behind the name given by outsiders is pejorative, whereas the internal name simply means "people" or "language". So, for example, I think of the following substitutions that have gained general acceptance in the last couple decades, and I'm sure there are many more.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Courier New" size="2"></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Courier New" size="2">Auca > Waorani (Ecuador)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Courier New" size="2">Papago > Tohono O'odham (Arizona, USA)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Courier New" size="2">Tlapanec > Me'phaa (Mexico)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Courier New" size="2">Otomi > Hñahñu (Mexico, spelling varies depending on dialect)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Courier New" size="2">Tarascan > Purepecha (Mexico)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Courier New" size="2"></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Courier New" size="2">I don't feel that etymology determines meaning, but I respect people's concerns and when people want themselves or their languages referred to in certain ways, even when the reference is in another language, I prefer to honor that. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Courier New" size="2"></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Courier New" size="2">Ultimately, it boils down to usage: the complex social negotiation that is worked out among users of a language as to what words they want to use. No one can regulate this, no matter how they try. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Courier New" size="2"></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Courier New" size="2">Albert</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title="dparvaz@gmail.com" href="mailto:dparvaz@gmail.com">Dan Parvaz</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title="slling-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu" href="mailto:slling-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">A list for linguists interested in signed languages</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> September 5, 2007 11:58 AM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [SLLING-L] SL and other codes: in passing: Russian</DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Courier New" size="2"></FONT><FONT face="Courier New" size="2"></FONT><BR></DIV>Hm. And Arabic "Namsa" means Austria. But doesn't the original point remain? Namely, that No one is bound by the internal name for a language/country/whatever. Using the autochthonous sign for a country seems to be an American -- and specifically, a Gallaudetian -- PC obsession. <BR><BR>-Dan.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">_______________________________________________</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">SLLING-L mailing list</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><A href="mailto:SLLING-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">SLLING-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</A></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><A href="http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/slling-l">http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/slling-l</A></DIV> </BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV></DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>