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Dear Daniela (and others),<div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>Without having read your paper, it seems to me this might relate to the distinction between pragmatic agreement and semantic agreement as discussed in Engberg-Pedersen's 1993 book. </div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>Kind regards,</div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>Myriam Vermeerbergen</div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div><br><div><div><div>On 09 Jan 2008, at 09:04, Daniela Happ wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"> <div class="Section1"><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Arial">Hi Scholastica,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Arial"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class="StandardBibliographie12"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt">in my research I found that the so called plain verbs aren´t really plain. They contain morphemes of person and space, f.e. the DGS (German Sign Language) verb BEZAHLEN (to pay). But the person/space morphemes aren´t strong enough to identify exactly personal agreement or space agreement. In my work I call these verbs weak agreement verbs (schwach kongruente Verben). I´m sorry, my work is in German and not English, but if you understand German, contact me and I will send you an excerpt of the article I wrote with a colleague (D.Happ & M.-O. Vorköper 2005: <font color="black"><span style="color:black">Einige Bemerkungen zur syntaktischen und morphologischen Repräsentation von Numerus in Deutscher Gebärdensprache. </span></font></span></font><font size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black">In: Leuninger, Helen & Daniela Happ (Hrsg.): Gebärdensprachen: Struktur, Erwerb, Verwendung (Linguistische Berichte. Sonderheft 13). Hamburg: Buske, P. 97 ff.)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class="StandardBibliographie12"><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black">To all: sorry for my ill english.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class="StandardBibliographie12"><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class="StandardBibliographie12"><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black">Daniela<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <div> <div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> <hr size="3" width="100%" align="center" tabindex="-1"> </span></font></div><p class="MsoNormal"><b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold">Von:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma"> slling-l-bounces@majordomo.valenciacc.edu [<a href="mailto:slling-l-bounces@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">mailto:slling-l-bounces@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</a>] <b><span style="font-weight: bold">Im Auftrag von </span></b>Schola Lam<br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Gesendet:</span></b> Dienstag, 8. Januar 2008 17:54<br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">An:</span></b> A list for linguists interested in signed languages<br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Betreff:</span></b> Re: [SLLING-L] Plain verbs in signed languages</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <div><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt">Hi everyone,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt">I think I need to rephrase my question. Sorry for any misunderstandings caused. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt">I tried to adopt Padden's (1983, 1988) verb classification for my HKSL data. Yet I want to clarify the notion plain verbs. I wonder if what have been called plain verbs may not be really "plain" in terms of morphology (e.g. verb agreement, aspect, etc) when more studies are done on ASL and other signed languages. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt">Did anyone observe that the so-called plain verbs may actually be marked with morphemes in signed languages?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt">Scholastica <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt"><br> <b><i><span style="font-weight:bold;font-style:italic">"Mark A. Mandel" <<a href="mailto:mamandel@ldc.upenn.edu">mamandel@ldc.upenn.edu</a>></span></i></b> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 3.0pt; margin-left:3.0pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">"Scholastica" (Nini Hoiting?) wrote:<br> <br> #I am a research student who works on Hong Kong Sign Language. My focus of <br> #study is verbs. I would like to confirm if plain verbs are generally<br> #unmarked for verb agreement and spatial locations.<br> <br> Dan Slobin answered:<br> <br> #By defnition, a "plain verb" is one that cannot move in space, and so it<br> #cannot mark agreement and spatial locations in itself. But in many sign<br> #languages (including Sign Language of the Netherlands, Taiwanese Sign<br> #Language, and others), there are "auxiliary" verbs that accompany a "plain"<br> #verb. Such accompanying verbs do move in space to indicate relations such<br> #as source-goal, agent-patient, and so forth.<br> <br> Denise Wetzler added:<br> <br> #In American Sign Language, verbs move. The movement itself contains a great<br> #amount of information. If want to show that I will go from my house to the<br> #bank and then to the library, these three locations are first established in<br> #the signing space. How I sign the verb 'go-to' then will show where I<br> #started from; went to; and where I ended up. [...]<br> <br> <br> It's essential to know what Scholastica means by "plain verb". Dan is evidently <br> assuming that S. has the same definition for it that he does. <br> <br> A sign that does not move in space can nevertheless mark agreement with a <br> spatial location, by its orientation and possibly its location as well. Example: <br> ASL PITY (open-8 handshape, palm toward object, middle finger repeatedly <br> bending).<br> <br> Clarification of Denise's answer: in ASL, *many* verbs move [in space], but by <br> no means all of them.<br> <br> -- Mark A. Mandel<br> Linguistic Data Consortium, University of Pennsylvania<br> <br> _______________________________________________<br> SLLING-L mailing list<br> <a href="mailto:SLLING-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">SLLING-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</a><br> <a href="http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/slling-l">http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/slling-l</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </blockquote><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> Send instant messages to your online friends <a href="http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com">http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">_______________________________________________</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">SLLING-L mailing list</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><a href="mailto:SLLING-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">SLLING-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</a></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><a href="http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/slling-l">http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/slling-l</a></div> </blockquote></div><br></div></div></body></html>