<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">This is an interesting finding, Robin. Were all your spatial verbs 'directional' (i.e., moving from point a to point b in space), or were some of them displaced verbs of location (i.e., vehicle-is-located-at-B)? I am just wondering if the eye gaze tends to co-occur with signs that move from one location to another...<div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>Adam</div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div> <br><div apple-content-edited="true"> <span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><div>--</div><div>Adam C Schembri, PhD</div><div>Project Director, British Sign Language Corpus Project</div><div>Deafness, Cognition and Language (DCAL) Research Centre</div><div>University College London</div><div>49 Gordon Square</div><div>London WC1H 0PD</div><div>United Kingdom</div><div><a href="http://www.ucl.ac.uk/dcal">http://www.ucl.ac.uk/dcal</a></div><div><br class="khtml-block-placeholder"></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></span></div></span></div></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"> </div><br><div><div>On 9 Jan 2008, at 14:52, Robin Thompson wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">For my dissertation work (with Karen Emmorey) we looked at eye gaze occurring with plain verbs as well as eye gaze with verbs that move in space to indicate location (spatial verbs) or person (agreeing verbs). We found that for plain verbs eye gaze was not directed toward locations associated with referents whereas for agreeing and spatial verbs it was. <div>Crucially- this was true whether or not the plain verb was spatially modified-- This (at a minimum) suggests that the two types of movement/spatial displacement are not the same. If you want to think of it in terms of morphemes, Carol Padden suggested that plain verbs that indicated either the subject or object (e.g., WANT produced on the right could mean "She wants something" , or "Someone want that thing" -it is ambiguous ) were occurring with clitics. </div><div><br><div>Overall- my recollection of the data we collected is that plain verbs which could be displaced in space (i.e., are not are produced on the body) ARE with (fairly) high frequency. </div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>Happy New Year to all!</div><div>Robin</div><div><br><div> <span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><div>Robin Thompson, Ph.D.</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Research Fellow</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Deafness, Cognition and Language Research Centre (DCAL)</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">University College London</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">49 Gordon Square, London, WC1H 0PD</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Web: <a href="http://www.dcal.ucl.ac.uk">www.dcal.ucl.ac.uk</a></div><div><a href="mailto:robin.thompson@ucl.ac.uk">robin.thompson@ucl.ac.uk</a></div><div><br class="khtml-block-placeholder"></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></span> </div><br><div><div>On 9 Jan 2008, at 13:56, Bencie Woll wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="country-region"> <o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PlaceName"> <o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="place"> <o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PlaceType"> <o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="address"> <o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="Street"> <o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="City"> <o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PersonName"> <!--[if !mso]> <style> st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } </style> <![endif]--> <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" /> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext="edit"> <o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" /> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--> <div class="Section1"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:6.0pt"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">In the following paper we discuss optionality in relation to agreement in the input to children acquiring BSL as a first language. </span></font><font size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Morgan G, Barrière I, & Woll B (2006) The influence of typology and modality on the acquisition of language. First Language 26: 19-43.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <div><p><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family: Arial;color:navy">Bencie Woll, BA, MA, PhD<br> Chair of Sign Language and Deaf Studies<br> Director, UCL DCAL Research Centre<br> <st1:street w:st="on"><st1:address w:st="on">49 Gordon Square</st1:address></st1:street><br> <st1:city w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">London</st1:place></st1:city> WC1H 0PD<br> +44 20 7679 8670 (voice)<br> +44 20 7679 8691 (fax)<br> +44 20 7679 8693 (textphone/minicom) <a href="http://www.dcal.ucl.ac.uk">www.dcal.ucl.ac.uk</a></span></font><font color="navy"><span style="color:navy"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p><font size="3" color="navy" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt; color:navy"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <div> <div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> <hr size="2" width="100%" align="center" tabindex="-1"> </span></font></div><p class="MsoNormal"><b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold">From<st1:personname w:st="on">:</st1:personname></span></font></b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma"> <a href="mailto:slling-l-bounces@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">slling-l-bounces@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</a> [mailto<st1:personname w:st="on">:</st1:personname><a href="mailto:slling-l-bounces@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">slling-l-bounces@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</a>] <b><span style="font-weight:bold">On Behalf Of </span></b>I.Zwitserlood<br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent<st1:personname w:st="on">:</st1:personname></span></b> 09 January 2008 08<st1:personname w:st="on">:</st1:personname>26<br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">To<st1:personname w:st="on">:</st1:personname></span></b> A list for linguists interested in signed languages<br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject<st1:personname w:st="on">:</st1:personname></span></b> Re<st1:personname w:st="on">:</st1:personname> [SLLING-L] Plain verbs in signed languages</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt">Dear Scholastica,<br> <br> Uou touch on an important issue here. It seems as if "plain verbs" in a sign language are taken to be a fixed group of verbs that never show any agreement, whereas "agreement verbs" do show agreement and "spatial verbs" also show agreement, though in a different way from agreement verbs. However, it is also observed that verbs that are reported (e.g. in the literature or dictionaries) to be "agreement verbs" are used without showing agreement (viz. there is a lot of variability in the use of agreement). E.g. In discourses in Sign Language of the Netherlands (NGT) we sometimes see verbs that can show agreement, used without agreement or only carrying a subset of the possible agreement markers. Sometimes they are accompanied by an auxiliary carrying the agreement marking, but not always. Also we see that verbs that are reported to be "plain verbs" sometimes do show agreement. It is by no means clear when, how and why the agreement marking varies, no systematic studies have been done on NGT so far. During the CISLR conference in <st1:city w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Cologne</st1:place></st1:city> last year Diane Lillo-Martin and Adam Schembri also report unexpected agreement patterns in ASL (children) and Auslan (adults), respectively.<br> I'm not sure whether this answers your question, but I think it is important to notice that the issue of sign language agreement is by no means clear yet and needs a lot more study. As you plan to do. Good luck!<br> <br> Inge Zwitserlood<br> <st1:placename w:st="on">Radboud</st1:placename> <st1:placetype w:st="on">University</st1:placetype> <st1:city w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Nijmegen</st1:place></st1:city><br> <br> <br> At 17<st1:personname w:st="on">:</st1:personname>53 8-1-2008, you wrote<st1:personname w:st="on">:</st1:personname><br> <br> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt">Hi everyone,<br> <br> I think I need to rephrase my question. Sorry for any misunderstandings caused. <br> <br> I tried to adopt Padden's (1983, 1988) verb classification for my HKSL data. Yet I want to clarify the notion plain verbs. I wonder if what have been called plain verbs may not be really "plain" in terms of morphology (e.g. verb agreement, aspect, etc) when more studies are done on ASL and other signed languages. <br> <br> Did anyone observe that the so-called plain verbs may actually be marked with morphemes in signed languages?<br> <br> Scholastica <br> <br> <b><i><span style="font-weight:bold;font-style:italic">"Mark A. Mandel" <<a href="mailto:mamandel@ldc.upenn.edu">mamandel@ldc.upenn.edu</a>></span></i></b> wrote<st1:personname w:st="on">:</st1:personname><o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 12.0pt;margin-left:36.0pt"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">"Scholastica" (Nini Hoiting?) wrote<st1:personname w:st="on">:</st1:personname><o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">#I am a research student who works on <st1:place w:st="on">Hong Kong</st1:place> Sign Language. My focus of <o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">#study is verbs. I would like to confirm if plain verbs are generally<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 12.0pt;margin-left:36.0pt"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">#unmarked for verb agreement and spatial locations.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 12.0pt;margin-left:36.0pt"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Dan Slobin answered<st1:personname w:st="on">:</st1:personname><o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">#By defnition, a "plain verb" is one that cannot move in space, and so it<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">#cannot mark agreement and spatial locations in itself. But in many sign<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">#languages (including Sign Language of the <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Netherlands</st1:place></st1:country-region>, Taiwanese Sign<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">#Language, and others), there are "auxiliary" verbs that accompany a "plain"<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">#verb. Such accompanying verbs do move in space to indicate relations such<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 12.0pt;margin-left:36.0pt"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">#as source-goal, agent-patient, and so forth.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 12.0pt;margin-left:36.0pt"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Denise Wetzler added<st1:personname w:st="on">:</st1:personname><o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">#In American Sign Language, verbs move. The movement itself contains a great<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">#amount of information. If want to show that I will go from my house to the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">#bank and then to the library, these three locations are first established in<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">#the signing space. How I sign the verb 'go-to' then will show where I<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 12.0pt;margin-left:36.0pt"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">#started from; went to; and where I ended up. [...]<br> <br> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">It's essential to know what Scholastica means by "plain verb". Dan is evidently <o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 12.0pt;margin-left:36.0pt"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">assuming that S. has the same definition for it that he does. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">A sign that does not move in space can nevertheless mark agreement with a <o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">spatial location, by its orientation and possibly its location as well. Example<st1:personname w:st="on">:</st1:personname> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">ASL PITY (open-8 handshape, palm toward object, middle finger repeatedly <o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 12.0pt;margin-left:36.0pt"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">bending).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Clarification of Denise's answer<st1:personname w:st="on">:</st1:personname> in ASL, *many* verbs move [in space], but by <o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 12.0pt;margin-left:36.0pt"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">no means all of them.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">-- Mark A. Mandel<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 12.0pt;margin-left:36.0pt"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Linguistic Data Consortium, <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:placetype w:st="on">University</st1:placetype> of <st1:placename w:st="on">Pennsylvania</st1:placename></st1:place><o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">SLLING-L mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><a href="mailto:SLLING-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">SLLING-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 12.0pt;margin-left:36.0pt"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><a href="http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/slling-l" eudora="autourl">http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/slling-l</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt"><br> Send instant messages to your online friends <a href="http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/" eudora="autourl">http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com</a> <br> _______________________________________________<br> SLLING-L mailing list<br> <a href="mailto:SLLING-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">SLLING-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</a><br> <a href="http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/slling-l" eudora="autourl">http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/slling-l</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> </o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">_______________________________________________</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">SLLING-L mailing list</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><a href="mailto:SLLING-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">SLLING-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</a></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><a href="http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/slling-l">http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/slling-l</a></div> </blockquote></div><br></div></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>SLLING-L mailing list<br><a href="mailto:SLLING-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">SLLING-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</a><br>http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/slling-l<br></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>