<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div>There is a SignPuddle on the web for writing "Llengua De Signes Catalana"...</div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">Catalán SignPuddle</span></font></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><a href="http://www.signbank.org/signpuddle/index1.html#sgn-ES-ct">http://www.signbank.org/signpuddle/index1.html#sgn-ES-ct</a></span></font></font></div></div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>Go to the link above and click on the Diccionario icon. You will see there are 2,622 signs written in the Diccionario Catalán, and two short documents written in the Literatura Catalán...</div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>Many of these signs have been written by Steve Parkhurst and other co-workers in Barcelona...</div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 14px/normal Arial; ">Val ;-)</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Arial; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Arial; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Arial; ">Valerie Sutton</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Arial; color: rgb(0, 0, 240); "><span style="text-decoration: underline; "><a href="mailto:Sutton@SignWriting.org">Sutton@SignWriting.org</a></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Arial; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Arial; ">SignPuddle</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Arial; ">Create SignWriting Documents Online</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Arial; color: rgb(0, 0, 240); "><span style="text-decoration: underline; "><a href="http://www.SignBank.org/signpuddle">http://www.SignBank.org/signpuddle</a></span></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#0000F0" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; text-decoration: underline;"><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></span></font></div></div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Helvetica" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;"><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Helvetica" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;"><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></span></font></div><div>---------</div><div><br></div><br><div><div>On Feb 23, 2008, at 9:27 AM, Albert Bickford wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; "><div lang="EL" vlink="purple" link="blue" bgcolor="#ffffff"><div><font face="Arial" size="2">One of the best people to answer this question is Steve Parkhurst. I'm not sure he subscribes to this list; if he doesn't respond in the next couple days, write to me privately and I'll put you in contact with him. </font></div><div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div><div><font face="Arial" size="2">My understanding of the situation in Spain is that there are substantial similarities in the sign language dialects used in various cities in Spain, but also significant dialect variation. The signing in Catalonia is the most divergent from the rest of the country, and in addition the Deaf community in Catalonia has a distinct sociolinguistic identity. It is, as you said, a matter of identity construction that the two varieties of signing are generally referred to as distinct languages.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></font><font face="Arial" size="2">But, that's a pretty normal situation when distinguishing what's a language and what's a dialect: identity construction plays a major role in those decisions, sometimes more important than the actual structural differences or the ability to communicate. </font></div><div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div><div><font face="Arial" size="2">I should note something about the Ethnologue article. The Ethnologue website is only updated about every three years, at the same time as the print version is published. A new version is in preparation right now, so the information currently on the website is a few years old. In the next edition, the name of the article will be changed to Catalan Sign Language, which is the English name that is normally used for this language in the linguistic literature, and is closer to the name used in Catalonia: Llengua De Signes Catalana. This parallels a change that was made to the ISO 639-3 standard last year; see<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.sil.org/iso639-3/documentation.asp?id=csc" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.sil.org/iso639-3/documentation.asp?id=csc</a>. Both the Ethnologue and the ISO 639-3 standard attempt to describe the actual situation in the real world, not define it. Ultimately, it is the language communities themselves that need to decide whether they want to be identified as using the same language as another community or have a distinct identity.</font></div><div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div><div><font face="Arial" size="2">Albert</font></div><blockquote style="padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; border-left-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-left-width: 2px; border-left-style: solid; margin-right: 0px; "><div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; ">----- Original Message -----</div><div style="background-image: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; -webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-color: rgb(228, 228, 228); font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; background-position: initial initial; "><b>From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a title="dmaureas@vodafone.net.gr" href="mailto:dmaureas@vodafone.net.gr" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">Dimitris Mavreas</a></div><div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; "><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a title="slling-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu" href="mailto:slling-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">slling-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</a></div><div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; "><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Saturday, February 23, 2008 8:03 AM</div><div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; "><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[SLLING-L] Catalan Sign Language vs Spanish Sign Language national sign language issues</div><div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font><font face="Arial" size="2"></font><br></div><div class="Section1"><p style="font-size: 12pt; margin-left: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang="EN-US">Dear all,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style="font-size: 12pt; margin-left: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang="EN-US">I have found on<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span style="color: rgb(0, 32, 96); "><a href="http://www.ethnologue.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; "><span style="color: rgb(0, 32, 96); ">www.ethnologue.com</span></a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>that Catalonian Sign Language<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span lang="EN-US">is<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span lang="EN-US">(I copy)</span><span lang="EN-US"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>“An indigenous sign language, quite distinct from Spanish Sign Language. About 50% intelligibility by users of Spanish Sign Language” and that Spanish Sign Language has “Small differences throughout Spain with no difficulties in intercommunication, except in Catalonia. Origin unknown, but it is reported that there are influences from American, French, and Mexican sign languages”. I can realize the existence of two different sign languages in Spain but I wonder if anyone could give me more information about the origins of this differentiation (separate deaf schools, Deaf organizations). <o:p></o:p></span></p><p style="font-size: 12pt; margin-left: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang="EN-US">Variability in sign languages is well documented for various sing languages all over the world but at the same time most nations –states are claimed to have one national sign language. It is really a question why in Spain two sign languages can be identified in regions where the oral languages of hearing majority are also separable (Spanish, Catalan). The case is similar in Belgium. Is this distinction absolute real or does it reflect identity construction issues? Moreover, standardization process in sign languages is probably a demand of hearing majority associated with similar evolutions in oral languages but I feel lately Deaf communities are also concerned.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style="font-size: 12pt; margin-left: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang="EN-US">I am working on language planning on Greek Sign Language and I am interested in similar research on other sign languages.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style="font-size: 12pt; margin-left: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang="EN-US">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style="font-size: 12pt; margin-left: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang="EN-US">Dimitris Mavreas<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style="font-size: 12pt; margin-left: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang="EN-US">Phd Candidate University of Athens,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:dmaureas@vodafone.net.gr" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">dmaureas@vodafone.net.gr</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><div style="font-size: 11pt; margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "> <o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div style="font-size: 12pt; margin-left: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><br></div></blockquote></div></span></blockquote></div><div apple-content-edited="true"> <span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 14px/normal Arial; "><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 14px/normal Arial; "><br></div></div></div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div></div></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"> </div><br></body></html>