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<DIV><FONT size=2>I changed the subject line because we've switched
topics.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>SVG won't provide a means of getting SignWriting into Unicode
(including UTF-8), because Unicode by its nature requires a much simpler
representation than SVG. Likewise for SignWriting Markup Language (SWML),
another XML-based notation that is specifically for SignWriting. Such data
formats are great for some purposes, but they are *much* too lengthy to be
incorporated into Unicode, and their internal structure (based as they are on
XML) is much too complex. Unicode is a system for representing
a character in a very small number of bytes, on the order of 5-10, whereas SVG
or SWML might need (I'm guessing) something more like 100-200 bytes per
SignWriting character.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>However, it is not necessarily the case that a Unicode
implementation of SignWriting would need to make room for 33,000+ new
symbols. That large number is a consequence of the fact that each separate
rotation and shading (used to represent e.g. hand orientation and palm facing)
is currently counted as a separate symbol. But, each handshape has 96
different symbols to represent it; if a Unicode system was developed in which
each handshape was represented by only one "codepoint" (the technical term for
the Unicode number that represents the character), and there was a second
codepoint to represent the rotation and shading, then the number of codepoints
required would drop to probably in the range of 500-1000. (There are also
other symbols that vary systematically from each other, especially the movement
arrows.) This approach would also make it much easier to expand the system
later; when a new handshape needs to be added to the system, you only need to
add one new character, not 96. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Unfortunately, my impression is that most of the people who
have thought about SignWriting and Unicode have made the assumption that each of
the 33,000+ new symbols needs to correspond one-to-one with a Unicode
codepoint. As long as people make that assumption, it is unlikely that
SignWriting will ever be added to Unicode.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Albert</FONT></DIV>
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style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=gerard.meijssen@gmail.com
href="mailto:gerard.meijssen@gmail.com">Gerard Meijssen</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=slling-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu
href="mailto:slling-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">A list for linguists
interested in signed languages</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=sutton@signwriting.org
href="mailto:sutton@signwriting.org">Valerie Sutton</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, May 05, 2008 8:02 AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [SLLING-L] the benefits of
ELAN</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Hoi,<BR>I blogged a few days ago about SignWriting and the
availability of the <A
href="http://ultimategerardm.blogspot.com/2008/05/beta-release-of-signwriting-image.html">SignWriting
Image Server</A>. What is clear in the text is that they are going to apply
for an Internet draft in order to improve the SWIS support. What I understand
is that SignWriting is superior in relation to HamNoSys as it allows for the
registration of facial expressions.<BR><BR>I would love to see SignWriting to
be included in UTF-8. There are two problems; there are 33563 symbols and this
requires more then the pages reserved for it. The hope is that with SWIS it
may be possible to speed the inclusion dramatically because of the way the
technology behind it ... (SVG).<BR>Thanks,<BR>
Gerard<BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 8:03 PM, Albert Bickford <<A
href="mailto:albert_bickford@sil.org"
target=_blank>albert_bickford@sil.org</A>> wrote:<BR>
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<DIV bgcolor="#ffffff">
<DIV><FONT size=2>In theory one should be able to use any appropriate
transcription system in one of ELAN's tiers. That is, once you've
selected a section of video, you can create an annotation for that stretch
in a particular tier, and then put a transcription of the data in that
stretch into the annotation. The catch here is that the transcription
must be representable using a font that ELAN knows how to use. I'm not
up on all the current technical details, but my understand/assumption has
been that ELAN only supports transcription systems that are supported in
Unicode (and, last I checked, there was the additional requirement that the
Unicode characters you needed had to be included in one particular
font). Neither SignWriting nor HamNoSys have been added to Unicode,
although there are various people who have given thought to how this might
be done. (In the case of SignWriting, it's not a trivial question what
is the best way to do so.) </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Now, if there were some way to attach a graphic image as
an annotation in ELAN, then this would provide a workaround, because the
graphic could contain an image of the SignWriting or HamNoSys
transcription. This would provide a human-readable annotation,
although it would not be searchable. It would also probably be much
more cumbersome than just typing in a transcription.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>If one wants annotations in ELAN that can provide some of
the functions that a transcription would provide, then I think the main
options are:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>-- a system of glosses that identifies the signs, as
mentioned by <FONT face=Verdana>Louise de Beuzeville in a separate
post</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2>- a transcription system that is
representable in Unicode, e.g. StokoeAscii (an adaptation of Stokoe notation
that is representable with ordinary ASCII characters)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2>- a coding system that represents just the
phonetic/phonological/morphological details that you are interested
in</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2></FONT> </DIV><FONT color=#888888>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2>Albert Bickford</FONT></DIV></FONT>
<DIV>
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style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">-----
Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228); FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial"><B>From:</B>
<A title=gerard.meijssen@gmail.com href="mailto:gerard.meijssen@gmail.com"
target=_blank>Gerard Meijssen</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B>
<A title=slling-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu
href="mailto:slling-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu" target=_blank>A list for
linguists interested in signed languages</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B>
Friday, May 02, 2008 5:46 AM</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B>
Re: [SLLING-L] the benefits of ELAN</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Is this where SingWriting / HamNoSys come in by associating
it with a time slot in ELIAN
?<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>SLLING-L
mailing list<BR><A href="mailto:SLLING-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu"
target=_blank>SLLING-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</A><BR><A
href="http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/slling-l"
target=_blank>http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/slling-l</A><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR>
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