What is Madrid Sign Language? Although I am familiar with various sign languages, and have spent time doing research in Barcelona, I have not heard of this language.<br><br>Barbara<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 10:39 AM, Mark A. Mandel <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mamandel@ldc.upenn.edu">mamandel@ldc.upenn.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">"Franz Dotter" <<a href="mailto:Franz.Dotter@uni-klu.ac.at">Franz.Dotter@uni-klu.ac.at</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
#What is the function of writing? To give us enough information to keep spoken<br>
#or signed language in an "external storage" (external from our memory). Again:<br>
<div class="Ih2E3d">#Not all info, enough to identify (most of) the content.<br>
<br>
#Does written material suffice for analysing a language? Hethitian linguists<br>
#would say: Yes, we don't have other sources. Linguists of languages still<br>
#spoken or signed would say: Writing is always only the second code, go for the<br>
#original one, i.e. real spoken/signed productions.<br>
<br>
</div>With respect, I don't think that this addresses Andrew's question. He didn't ask<br>
whether SignWriting was adequate as the only form of data to use for analyzing<br>
signed languages:<br>
<br>
(quoting Andrew)<br>
#It seems true to me that a SignWriting transcription of an ASL<br>
<div class="Ih2E3d">#utterance will certainly lack some linguistic and paralinguistic<br>
#information, but probably no more so than a phonemic (NOT phonetic)<br>
#transcription of a spoken English utterance will probably lack certain<br>
#information about phonetic production and prosody.<br>
#<br>
#With that in mind, PHONEMIC transcription can still convey a lot of<br>
#information about English which is useful to linguists, and there are<br>
#even situations in which written English is sufficient as a medium for<br>
#recording linguistic data about spoken English.<br>
<br>
</div>This is certainly true, for English and for any other living language that has a<br>
written form. As an example of Andrew's last sentence above, consider studies of<br>
word frequency and constructions based on transcribed speech. And in practice,<br>
for many (most?) linguistic endeavors, it is impossible to analyze a large<br>
corpus of speech without recourse to some form of transcription on the spectrum<br>
between everyday orthography and narrow phonetics.<br>
<br>
Andrew's question then was:<br>
<br>
# how good or bad is<br>
<div class="Ih2E3d">#SignWriting as a tool for linguistic study? Where does it excel? Where<br>
#does it fall short? Can people who use it interpret it accurately in a<br>
#reliable way?<br>
<br>
</div>I don't read SSW, but of course I've seen it and I know its basic principles.<br>
And while I can't answer Andrew's question, it doesn't deserve summary<br>
dismissal. SSW can certainly be useful for many forms of linguistic study of<br>
sign languages. And not only in its present (still evolving) form: the<br>
International Phonetic Alphabet was originally developed from the Roman<br>
alphabet, and there are extensions (for disordered speech and non-phonemic<br>
sounds and qualities in normal speech).<br>
<font color="#888888"><br>
-- Mark A. Mandel<br>
Linguistic Data Consortium, University of Pennsylvania<br>
</font><br>
PS: "Hethitian" = "Hittite"?<br>
<div><div></div><div class="Wj3C7c"><br>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Dr. Barbara Gerner de Garcia, Professor and Chair<br>Department of Educational Foundations and Research<br>Gallaudet University<br>800 Florida Ave NE<br>Washington, DC 20002-3695<br>
<br>Phone: 202-651-5207<br>