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<DIV><FONT color=#000080 size=2 face="Comic Sans MS">Here's a complete stab in
the dark. I think it's because of the way that they behave / are used.
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000080 size=2 face="Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000080 size=2 face="Comic Sans MS">They are somewhat like the
counter words used in a several (actually, I think it's a number of) Asian
languages. In fact, these counter terms are typically called 'classifiers'. For
example, in Japanese, when I want to talk about the fact that there are kittens
in room, I would say something like 'room-in-topic, kitten exist', if I wanted
to say that there were three of them, 'room-in-topic, kitten three-CL exist".
Now, this word glossed as 'CL' ('hiki') does not mean kitten, rather it is used
when referring to (counting) any relatively small animals. So, I could use the
same word for mice, ferrets, dogs, etc. There is a separate word ('tou') for
large animals, (not unlike talking about "14 head of cattle").</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000080 size=2 face="Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000080 size=2 face="Comic Sans MS">Now, things get very
interesting when we talk about ... say, pencils. There is a classifier for long,
thin things. It's also used for shots (injections), logs, scrolls, trees. In
that way, it's rather like the "1" ASL classifier. It can be used to refer to
any long, thin thing. And, you'll notice that it cannot stand on it's own.
The noun must be introduced before, either through conversational context, but
generally by direct inclusion in the discourse. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000080 size=2 face="Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000080 size=2 face="Comic Sans MS">Another example is "3"
to mean vehicle. It does not mean, 'car' or 'bus' or 'truck' or ... but once the
noun has been introduced, it can be used to represent it. Is this
making any sense ... or am I just blathering on.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000080 size=2 face="Comic Sans MS">(rather than risk of
blathering</FONT> <FONT color=#000080 size=2
face="Comic Sans MS">incomprehensibly ... I stop now ...
comments?)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000080 size=2 face="Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000080 size=2 face="Comic Sans MS">Dan</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000080 size=2 face="Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000080 size=2 face="Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt Tahoma">
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=charityh@COMCAST.NET
href="mailto:charityh@COMCAST.NET">charityh@COMCAST.NET</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, July 22, 2007 21:44</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=slling-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu
href="mailto:slling-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">slling-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</A>
</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> [slling-l] (rephrased) Two questions</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000080 size=2 face="Comic Sans MS"></FONT><FONT color=#000080
size=2 face="Comic Sans MS"></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Sorry, folks...</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Let me re-phrase my #2 question below.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>What i actually meant is could someone explain why noun classifiers in ASL
are classifiers and NOT a member of noun class? And i want an explanation for
vice versa as well.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thanks,</DIV>
<DIV>Sarah</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px">--------------
Original message -------------- <BR>From: <A
href="mailto:charityh@COMCAST.NET">charityh@COMCAST.NET</A> <BR>
<DIV>Got two questions here...</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>1) How old is English, counting Old English? I couldn't find this
information on Wikipedia.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>2) Could someone give me examples of noun classifiers and noun classes
for ASL? To me, it seems as if some of today's discussed classifiers in ASL
are actually noun classes or vice versa, but i may be wrong. By the way, would
the agent marker in ASL (open & flat hand, both hands, palms facing each
other, moving down from upper chest to lower torso) be placed in the noun
class?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Sarah</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>