<HTML xmlns:v = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word"><HEAD>
<META content="text/html; charset=utf-8" http-equiv=Content-Type>
<META name=GENERATOR content="MSHTML 8.00.6001.19258">
<STYLE>
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</STYLE>
<STYLE>
<!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
span.E-MailFormatvorlage17
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:Arial;
color:navy;}
@page Section1
{size:595.3pt 841.9pt;
margin:70.85pt 70.85pt 2.0cm 70.85pt;}
div.Section1
{page:Section1;}
-->
</STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY style="MARGIN: 4px 4px 1px; FONT: 10pt Tahoma; WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space" lang=DE link=blue vLink=blue>
<DIV>Dear Stefan and others,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I really estimate your approach to use creative means in order to teach German (or any other spoken language to deaf students). I'm only pleading for correct info. What disturbed me was Valeries sentence: "can create documents that translate spoken language textbooks, into written sign language". I think all agree that a formulation like: "the program can a) convert glossed sign language sentences into SignWriting, b) convert single written German words into DGS or Signed Germanequivalents, given in SignWriting c) a written German sentence is converted word-by-word into DGS and Signed German equivalents, given in SignWriting, by that offering a Signed German version of the original sentence". These achievements are great enough and many teachers will take them over gratefully; therefore we need not say "there is translation from German to DGS".</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>To give an example: If you take a German sentence like "Ich werde gehen" = (I will go), you get the auxiliary verb "werden" also as a sign (which is clearly Signed German; and has some pedagogical advanthge in some settings, but is not DGS)</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Concerning the mouthings: I understand the difference between the full "Mundbildschrift" and the hints given in DELEGS/SignWriting now. But the fact remains that these hints do not represent default mouthings as they are used in DGS; they are still hints towards spoken language (to repeat: I do neither critisise this from a pedagocical nor from a bilingual perspective; I only want to state that these elements are not (Greman) sign language elements).</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Best Regards</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Franz<BR><BR>>>> Stefan Wöhrmann<stefanwoehrmann@GEBAERDENSCHRIFT.DE> 7/4/2012 11:46 >>><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=2 face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=EN-GB>Hello Valerie, Franz and everyone – <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=2 face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=2 face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=EN-GB>It is just as you say Valerie and I want to repeat that. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=2 face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=2 face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=EN-GB>Delegs iss a wonderful tool to create bilingual materials and “</SPAN></FONT><B><U><FONT color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black; FONT-WEIGHT: bold" lang=EN-GB>It depends on the skill of the writer (translator). It also depends on what the writer wants to do</SPAN></FONT></U></B><FONT color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black" lang=EN-GB>.”<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang=EN-GB>So of course you can create translations from an idea expressed in spoken language to the same idea expressed in DGS. The wonderful thing is that you can rely on a written document which shows perfectly the writers idea how to sign this given concept or that shows how a given sign language performance can be translated to spoken language. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang=EN-GB>Unfortunately there is obviously a misunderstanding in your idea that the “Mundbilder” </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=EN-GB>symbolise sounds within the SignWriting face – they do not!!! <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=EN-GB>Woehrmanns-speechwriting should not be mixed up with my invention of “Mundbildschrift” a system that supports the articulation process in deaf students... <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=EN-GB>The “Mundbilder” in SignWriting (GebaerdenSchrift) are simply meant to document mouth- tongue – lip movements - it is a guessing game like lipreading – but including the information coming from your hands it is easy to understand. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=EN-GB>Once more – Delegs - is a tool that allows anybody to create written documents of Sign language DGS, ASL, and spoken language. Why should this not be a translation? The scribe is just asked to write what he wants to write... smile. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=EN-GB>Stefan <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<DIV style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=MsoNormal align=center><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR tabIndex=-1 align=center SIZE=2 width="100%">
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Von:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> linguists interested in signed languages [mailto:SLLING-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU] <B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Im Auftrag von </SPAN></B>Valerie Sutton<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Gesendet:</SPAN></B> Mittwoch, 4. Juli 2012 16:03<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">An:</SPAN></B> SLLING-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Betreff:</SPAN></B> Re: Antw: Re: SW-HamNoSys</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Hello Franz and everyone -<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">It depends on the skill of the writer (translator). It also depends on what the writer wants to do.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">If the software is used without a knowledge of sign languages, and how to translate, then you are right that any software and any writing system can be used incorrectly.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">But a translator who knows sign languages and spoken languages well, and knows how to translate between the languages, and knows how to use the SignWriting-related software to produce good translations, can produce linguistically correct documents using any SignWriting-related software.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">In the case of SignPuddle, we have an Editor called the SignText Editor. In the SignText Editor we can write directly in sign languages without any connection to spoken languages. We can also then save each individual sign within a sign language document, into a dictionary, which can then be accessed by DELEGS software.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Inside DELEGS software, the writer can then write the gloss for the sign language sentences that will access or bring in the signs from the special SignPuddle file created for the work…so the writer in DELEGS is not required to do Signed German - a translation that provides proper spoken German and proper DGS can be created using a combination of SignPuddle's SignText Editor, SignPuddle dictionaries, and the DELEG's Editor.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">I know the DELEGs developers are planning to produce their own Editor in time, but at the moment, this is how it is being done…<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Val ;-)<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">-----------<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">On Jul 3, 2012, at 11:48 PM, <A href="mailto:Franz.Dotter@UNI-KLU.AC.AT">Franz.Dotter@UNI-KLU.AC.AT</A> wrote:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR><BR><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 3pt 3pt 0.75pt">
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Dear colleagues,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Concerning DELEGS you have to add that "translate" is not the adequate word here: DELEGS simply puts a German word into a SignWriting notation of an adequate DGS sign. If you use a real German sentence, you create pure Signed German. Only if you use a correct glossing of a signed sentence (i.e. if you know how the grammar of DGS), you will get a grammatically acceptable DGS sentence. Moreover, the face is enriched with a full notation of the sounds of the German word used (not only a possible mouthing).<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Both systems, the Woehrmann-system of symbolising sounds within the SignWriting face as well as DELEGS do have their merits for several educational settings and I would not like to underscore the creative work contained in them.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">But: There is no TRANSLATION from anywhere to somewhere. As there are some similar advertisements of "translation" in the context of sign languages /cf. e.g. also <A href="http://www.pslt.org/">http://www.pslt.org/</A>), I'm a little bit concerned about the result of such advertisements when people from outside learn that all these announcemenst were not true. Please, tell the linguistic truth!<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Best Regards<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Franz Dotter<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><BR>1. Now, there is new software from the University of Hamburg and C1 WPS Workplace Solutions, called DELEGS, that coordinates with the SignPuddle DGS dictionary, Stefan and other teachers of Deaf students in Germany, can create documents that translate spoken language textbooks, into written sign language, so their students can understand both languages better and can grasp the content of the textbooks. So the German SignPuddles online are geared towards Deaf Education, and are used with this software:<BR><BR>DELEGS<BR><A href="http://www.delegs.com/delegseditor/">http://www.delegs.com/delegseditor/</A><BR><BR>DELEGS stands for "German Learning with SignWriting" but in German of course…I believe it is "Deutsch lernen mit GebaerdenSchrift" (Stefan and others, please correct me if I am wrong ;-))<BR><BR>Anyway - that specific database is impressive for its educational purpose…<BR><BR>THANK YOU, to all of you, who have created DELEGS…and thank you to Stefan Woehrmann for making this possible<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>