<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div>Thank you all (especially Maria and Franz) for your thoughts these past couple of weeks on topics concerning SW-HNS conversion. Again, we’d like to emphasize that our project is a small beginning step in this direction, for which we are first concentrating on converting Swiss German Sign Language (DSGS) citation forms of signs (not signs from a text), in order to see if there are any patterns which would encourage us to further pursue this attempt. As a second step in this small exploratory study, it would be helpful to compare our findings for HNS with a set of signs from another sign language, which are also already transcribed with both SW and HNS. <br></div><div>Franz, your comments on the different requirements and aims of notations is a helpful reminder that if we are able to compare the DSGS results with those from other sign languages, we absolutely need to notate the aims (and levels) of all sets of notations in our metadata.</div><div>Thanks again, and we’ll keep you informed of our progress.</div><div>Penny and Sarah</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><div>Am 24.08.2012 um 23:05 schrieb MARIA GALEA:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div>Hello again all and especially Profs Dotter and Machado,<br><br>Thank you for your feedback. I really appreciate your comments. I would<br>really like to read up more about your works. Do you think you could<br>direct me to a few of your recent papers, especially anything that has to<br>do with SignWriting.<br><br>Yes Machado - I remember meeting you in Malta at the LREC 2010 - if I rem.<br>well you are from Brazil, am I right? I tried to search for your paper on<br>the LREC 2010 website but was unsuccessful. What is your full name if I<br>may ask?<br><br>If the people undertaking the work of the SignWriting to HamNoSys<br>converter are reading this, do you have any more details about the work<br>that I can read about..i need more information if possible.<br><br>Thanks all and have a great weekend,<br>maria<br><br><br><blockquote type="cite">Hi, Maria!!!<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">very interesting issue pointed out by you.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Although Franz's answer was very sound in some aspects, I am not sure he<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">has addressed all of your points.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Anyway, what you both brings to surface, IMHO, is that one has to be<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">really<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">aware of the issue when dealing with such conversions: general<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">translation/conversion vs. language specific rules.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">I would dare to say this could be a research topic in its own. But I would<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">like to bring the corpora based inference approach to the problem.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">I do know we do not have many sign language corpora available in the two<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">notations (let alone annotated corpora or paralell SW | HNS | Gloss ones).<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">But I have had myself an initial experience in providing sign language<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">users ways to continuously grow their own corpus using some interesting<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">inference techniques. In fact, I even had the pleasure to meet Maria in<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">person, when I visited Malta to present the work in LREC 2010.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Anyway, my point is maybe it is really tough to deal with the generic vs.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">specific issue using hardcoded rules and probably we shold look for ways<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">(fundings?) to develop sign language corpora built for both real life<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">usage<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">and research purposes.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Best<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Machado<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">2012/8/23 MARIA GALEA <<a href="mailto:maria.azzopardi@um.edu.mt">maria.azzopardi@um.edu.mt</a>><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Hi everyone - first a v brief introduction - I have been using<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">SignWriting<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">for data transcriptions for several years and have also used it as a<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">writing system to write long texts in Maltese Sign Language (for sign<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">language literature - not for research).<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">I'm working on my dissertation 'SignWriting: Towards an orthography for<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">LSM (Maltese Sign language)' with the Univ of Malta. I can't believe<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">this<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">email list (SSLING) never came to attention before. Better (extremely)<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">late than never I guess.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Can I ask a few questions about the work on the SignWriting to HamNoSys<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">converter: what will be the use of this tool? I.e. WHY are you carrying<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">out this study? Why do you need an SW converter to HamNoSys? Are you<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">focussing on one sign language or several?<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Gerard's argument is valid - but besides this, there are different rules<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">applied to SignWriting for different sign languages - although this is<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">still not researched (I hope to be filling this gap a little), with time<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">users of the SW writing system naturally adapt SignWriting.(In the same<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">way that the latin script "x" symbol nowadays represents a wide varied<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">list of sounds that is language dependant - and has moved away from the<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">original Latin sound). There is evidence that with the use of long-text<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">writing of SignWriting for a specific sign language, the system<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">naturally<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">evolves beyond a simple phonetic transciption (i.e. a representation of<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">exact articulation) to a more abstract representation of language. How<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">do<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">you hope to deal with this reality, when this reality has not yet been<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">fully understood and researched?<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Taking the analogy of say written English to I.P.A (International<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Phonetic<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Alphabet)- I could imagine an IPA converter dealing with the English<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">word<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">'although', because I imagine you could 'teach' your machine the pattern<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">of written English '-ough' : that represents the sound "ow". Most<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">written<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">English patterns are known so you could teach them to your machine I<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">guess. But what about the SignWriting to HamNosys converter? How can you<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">include such patterns, if they haven't yet been investigated? And<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">furthermore how are you going to include all different patterns for all<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">different sign languages that are using SignWriting?<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Look forward to your reply - and wish you all a lovely day.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Maria<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">!DSPAM:5035d7ff210502100250580!<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><br></div></blockquote></div><br><div apple-content-edited="true">
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-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-variant: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="font-style: normal; font-size: medium; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><font class="Apple-style-span" size="2"><i>Dr. Penny Boyes Braem</i></font></div><div style="font-style: normal; font-size: medium; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><font class="Apple-style-span" size="2"><i>Forschungszentrum für Gebärdensprache (FZG) </i></font></div><div style="font-style: normal; font-size: medium; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><font class="Apple-style-span" size="2"><i>and</i></font></div><div style="font-style: normal; font-size: medium; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><font class="Apple-style-span" size="2"><i>Sarah Ebling</i></font></div><div style="font-style: normal; font-size: medium; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><font class="Apple-style-span" size="2"><i>Center for Computer Linguistic, University of Zurch</i></font></div><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><font class="Apple-style-span" size="2"><i><br></i></font></div><div style="font-style: normal; font-size: medium; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><br></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></span>
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