<html><head></head><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:bookman old style, new york, times, serif;font-size:16px"><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1449329333271_31974"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1449329333271_31973">I was once told by a (hearing) instructor in an ASL class here in Atlanta, Georgia that I should be making the ASL sign SUNDAY in a certain way - I forgot whether he claimed that the fingers should be closed vs. open, and whether he claimed that the second movement of the sign should start at the same position near the chest or from a position somewhat lower (but it must have been the lower, or I would not have been struck by it). Skeptical of his claim, I asked a group of deaf signers here in Atlanta, all of whom know each other personally, how they would make the sign. Just in this small group of eight or so signers, I found ALL FOUR POSSIBLE COMBINATIONS of the two choices above. In this case, at least, individual differences surpass any dialectal effects. Unless, of course, I was merely viewing the range of possible variation within which each signer produces the sign. </span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1449329333271_31974"><span><br></span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1449329333271_31974"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1449329333271_32389">Peyton Todd</span></div><br> <div style="font-family: bookman old style, new york, times, serif; font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1449329333271_32043"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1449329333271_32042"> <div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1449329333271_32041"> <hr size="1" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1449329333271_32040"> <font size="2" face="Arial" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1449329333271_32221"> <b id="yui_3_16_0_1_1449329333271_32312"><span style="font-weight:bold;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1449329333271_32311">From:</span></b> Adam Schembri <A.Schembri@LATROBE.EDU.AU><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> SLLING-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU <br> <b id="yui_3_16_0_1_1449329333271_32388"><span style="font-weight: bold;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1449329333271_32387">Sent:</span></b> Friday, December 4, 2015 5:14 PM<br> <b id="yui_3_16_0_1_1449329333271_32386"><span style="font-weight: bold;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1449329333271_32385">Subject:</span></b> [SLLING-L] On the Philly 'accent' in ASL<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1449329333271_32254"><br><div id="yiv7483783835">
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<div style="font-family:-webkit-standard;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1449329333271_32255">Hi everyone,</div>
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<div style="font-family:-webkit-standard;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1449329333271_32261"><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3345846/Sign-language-accent" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1449329333271_32260">http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3345846/Sign-language-accent</a></div>
<div style="font-family:-webkit-standard;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1449329333271_32265">-Linguists-discover-variation-signing-seen-Philadephia.html</div>
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<div style="font-family:-webkit-standard;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1449329333271_32263">Just a head’s up about this: no surprises here, but the media reports</div>
<div style="font-family:-webkit-standard;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1449329333271_32264">about this are inaccurate. </div>
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<div style="font-family:-webkit-standard;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1449329333271_32314">My understanding is that the researchers in Philadelphia are undertaking</div>
<div style="font-family:-webkit-standard;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1449329333271_32315">a study to see if there is evidence in their corpus of a distinctive</div>
<div style="font-family:-webkit-standard;">Philadelphia ‘accent’ in American Sign Language (ASL) - they’ve not yet</div>
<div style="font-family:-webkit-standard;">found one, but there are anecdotal reports of one. The evidence for the</div>
<div style="font-family:-webkit-standard;">existence of regional ‘accents’ for sign languages such as ASL, Auslan and British</div>
<div style="font-family:-webkit-standard;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1449329333271_32341">Sign Language is unclear. While there are clearly documented differences</div>
<div style="font-family:-webkit-standard;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1449329333271_32317">across the US and Australia in how particular signs are produced, I’ve not yet seen any</div>
<div style="font-family:-webkit-standard;">evidence yet that native signers can tell WHERE someone is from in the US, Australia</div>
<div style="font-family:-webkit-standard;">or the UK based on the way they produce specific phonological features of</div>
<div style="font-family:-webkit-standard;">signs alone. We’ve plenty of evidence of regional dialect differences</div>
<div style="font-family:-webkit-standard;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1449329333271_32339">based on lexical differences, but not accent as such. On the other hand, it is</div>
<div style="font-family:-webkit-standard;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1449329333271_32338">clear that second language learners produce ASL and BSL signs with an</div>
<div style="font-family:-webkit-standard;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1449329333271_32337">‘accent’, and there is also work on Black and White ASL which shows some</div>
<div style="font-family:-webkit-standard;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1449329333271_32336">interesting sociophonetic differences between these varieties.</div>
<div style="font-family:-webkit-standard;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1449329333271_32335"><br>
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<div style="font-family:-webkit-standard;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1449329333271_32334">The most accurate report I’ve seen thus far is here: http://www.upenn.edu/pennnews/news/penn-linguists-document-philadelphia-accent-american-sign-language</div>
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<div style="font-family:-webkit-standard;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1449329333271_32333">Adam</div>
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<div style="font-family:Consolas;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1449329333271_32331"><font size="2"><span style="font-family:Calibri;"><br>
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<div style="font-family:Consolas;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1449329333271_32327"><font size="2" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1449329333271_32330"><span style="font-family:Calibri;">Assoc. Prof. Adam Schembri, PhD </span><span style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1449329333271_32329"><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="https://latrobe.academia.edu/AdamSchembri" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1449329333271_32328">https://latrobe.academia.edu/AdamSchembri</a></span></font></div>
<div style="font-family:Consolas;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1449329333271_32324"><font size="2"><span style="font-family:Calibri;">Department of Languages & Linguistics
</span></font><span style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:small;"> | </span><font size="2" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1449329333271_32323"><span style="font-family:Calibri;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1449329333271_32322">La Trobe University | Melbourne (Bundoora) | Victoria | 3086 | Australia |</span><span style="font-family:Calibri;">Tel : +61
3 9479 2887 | Twitter: @AdamCSchembri</span></font></div>
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<span style="font-weight:bold;">From: </span>linguists interested in signed languages <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:SLLING-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU" target="_blank" href="mailto:SLLING-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU">SLLING-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a>> on behalf of Barbara Gerner De Garcia <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:barbara.gerner.de.garcia@GALLAUDET.EDU" target="_blank" href="mailto:barbara.gerner.de.garcia@GALLAUDET.EDU" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1449329333271_32352">barbara.gerner.de.garcia@GALLAUDET.EDU</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold;">Reply-To: </span>linguists interested in signed languages <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:SLLING-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU" target="_blank" href="mailto:SLLING-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU">SLLING-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold;">Date: </span>Thursday, 3 December 2015 at 01:45<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold;">To: </span>"<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:SLLING-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU" target="_blank" href="mailto:SLLING-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU">SLLING-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a>" <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:SLLING-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU" target="_blank" href="mailto:SLLING-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU">SLLING-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold;">Subject: </span>Re: Numerical Incorporation for Age signs in ASL<br>
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<div dir="ltr">Indeed!<br>
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<div class="yiv7483783835gmail_quote">On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 9:25 AM, Boris Fridman Mintz <span dir="ltr">
<<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:chido@mac.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:chido@mac.com">chido@mac.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
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Illuminating response. Isn´t it?<br>
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<div class="yiv7483783835h5"><br>
> On Dec 2, 2015, at 2:17 AM, Elton, Frances <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:f.elton@UCL.AC.UK" target="_blank" href="mailto:f.elton@UCL.AC.UK">f.elton@UCL.AC.UK</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> Please don't take in research by hearing people, only take in by Deaf people.<br>
> Thanks<br>
> Frances<br>
><br>
> Frances Elton MA, DCAL, UCL<br>
><br>
><br>
>> On 2 Dec 2015, at 08:27, Sarah Hafer <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:sarah.hafer@GMAIL.COM" target="_blank" href="mailto:sarah.hafer@GMAIL.COM">sarah.hafer@GMAIL.COM</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> Hello,<br>
>><br>
>> I understand that some publishings say the age signs in ASL where the numbers are<br>
>> blended with the OLD sign for ASL are part of the numerical incorporation category. For<br>
>> some reason, it just does not feel right to me that these should be classified as numberical<br>
>> incorporation. I want to say it is because of some kind of phonological process such as<br>
>> phonological reduction. Then i saw one website says these AGE signs in ASL are rather<br>
>> 'assimilation,' and that felt quite more right to me.<br>
>><br>
>> I am wondering what are your take on this? Any scientific publishing on how the AGE signs<br>
>> in ASL are perhaps not numerical incorporation but rather something else?<br>
>><br>
>> Sarah<br>
>><br>
><br>
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-- <br>
<div class="yiv7483783835gmail_signature">Dr. Barbara Gerner de Garcia, Professor <br>
Department of Education<br>
Gallaudet University<br>
800 Florida Ave NE<br>
Washington, DC 20002-3695<br>
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Phone: 202-651-5207</div>
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