SVG version of our IMWA symbols

Valerie Sutton signwriting at MAC.COM
Wed Apr 25 18:32:02 UTC 2007

SignWriting List
April 25, 2007

You are just the person I wanted to talk to!

THANK YOU for your SVG!

I have two questions...

1. Would you be willing to work with me personally to complete the  
SVG of the new symbolset, which can be called either the SSS-2007 or  
IMWA v 1.4  ...same symbols...just two different names!

It is a larger symbolset, so more would need to be added to the  
current SVG that you already created for SSS-2004.

And I have not completed the IMWA 1.4 yet myself, in the current  
bitmapped symbols we are this work would have to start  
after I have completed the IMWA it would later this year...

If you are interested, we may be able to find some funding for you  
possibly through Wikimedia collaboration...I am not sure but we can try!

2. Do we have your permission to use your SVG in our software? I know  
the world has started using licenses, which I am not knowledgeable  
about, but I guess we need a license from you to give us permission?  
The other day someone asked me for my license on a photo of mine on a  
web site...and I couldn't believe that people are now putting  
licenses on everything such as photos etc...but have  
been very generous to us and we appreciate it!

I hope you will say yes to both above!

Val ;-)


On Apr 25, 2007, at 11:11 AM, machado at wrote:

> Try these: or  
> Its full set of sss2004. By full I mean no flips or rotations. but  
> the whole set.
> Machado
> ******************************************************
> 8° Forum Internacional Software Livre - fisl8.0
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> 12,13 e 14 de Abril de 2007
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> ******************************************************
> Citando Steve Slevinski <slevin at>:
>> Jonathan,
>> I am the one requesting an SVG
>> Jonathan wrote:
>>> Valerie Sutton wrote:
>>>> SignWriting List
>>>> April 21, 2007
>>>> This morning I had the pleasure of speaking for almost 2 hours  
>>>> on  the phone with the Netherlands, with one of the Wikimedia   
>>>> languages subcommittee members, whom I met, through email   
>>>> conversations recently, and we talked about creating an SVG   
>>>> version of our IMWA symbols, to enhance future computer   
>>>> programming...
>>> Hi Val,
>>>    An SVG version of the IMWA symbols seems exciting.  I was   
>>> wondering we advantages this might have.  I know that currently  
>>> the  PNG symbols are cacheable so this is better for us that have  
>>> lower  bandwidth as we only have to get each symbol once. I  
>>> briefly looked  into the SVG and it seems to be inline so it  
>>> comes as part of the  web page.  I don't think that it would be  
>>> cacheable but I could be  wrong. If the SVG is part of the page,  
>>> then the browser wouldn't  have to get each symbol one by one, it  
>>> would load faster on the  browser but the server would have to  
>>> resend the symbol on each web  page refresh so it might be a bit  
>>> longer to load each page for  those of us with lower bandwith.   
>>> Though on second thought, if we  don't have to get each rotation  
>>> it might even be faster.
>>>    I was thinking on the savings are far as rotations  for only  
>>> the  handshapes using the SVG.  Presently there are about 207  
>>> hand  shapes with 6 distinct fills rotated 8 different positions  
>>> then  mirrored and rotated another 8 positions.  So for each of  
>>> the 207  there are 6 fills X 16 rotations = 96 symbols per hand  
>>> shape.  207  handshapes X 96 symbols each =  19872 handshape  
>>> symbols.  Now if we  only had to draw the 6 fills for the 207  
>>> handshapes, we would only  have to define 207 X 6 =  1242 symbols  
>>> which SVG could easily  mirror and rotate all the ways we wanted  
>>> to.  So with SVG we would  only need to define 6% of the current  
>>> handshape symbols.  That's  like 94% improvement. Not bad!!! Some  
>>> of the other arrows etc can  also be rotated and flipped to make  
>>> up the full set. However there  wouldn't be any savings as far as  
>>> the face symbols or some of the  punctuation is concerned.     I  
>>> guess when we have made a few, we  will have a better idea how  
>>> they compare in size to the PNG  symbols.  I wonder if they would  
>>> be any smaller as many symbols  have a lot of parts that have to  
>>> be described.  The median PNG  symbol file size is only 232  
>>> bytes.  It going to be hard to beat  that but with a 90-94%  
>>> savings from rotating them on the SVG I  guess it would really be  
>>> worth it.
>>>    I the other more immediate benefit would be that they are  
>>> easily  scalable.  This would be better for captioning or people  
>>> who have  bad eyesight. What else have your learned about doing  
>>> the IMWA in  SVG?
>>> Jonathan
>>>> I am going to step out in the beautiful Springtime air and be  
>>>> back  shortly -
>>>> Val ;-)
>>>> -----------
>>>> On Apr 21, 2007, at 11:29 AM, Cherie Wren wrote:
>>>>> I volunteer to help...
>>>>> cherie
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----
>>>>> From: Valerie Sutton <sutton at>
>>>>> To: List SignWriting <sw-l at>
>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 8:41:27 PM
>>>>> Subject: [sw-l] Wikipedia American Sign Language
>>>>> SignWriting List
>>>>> April 20, 2007
>>>>> Hello SW List Members!
>>>>> As you all know, recently there has been interest in creating a
>>>>> possible ASL Wikipedia, or at least, the beginning of writing an
>>>>> Encyclopedia in ASL...
>>>>> Since we are new to writing and posting documents on the web,  
>>>>> in our
>>>>> SignPuddle 1.5 Literature Puddle online, I realize that this is a
>>>>> very big leap forward, to start writing encyclopedia articles  
>>>>> in ASL!
>>>>> To write such an article, we would need to either choose an  
>>>>> article
>>>>> already written in another encyclopedia, and then translate it  
>>>>> from
>>>>> English to ASL and then write it in SignWriting in SignText...
>>>>> or...
>>>>> write it directly from our own knowledge of physics, or  
>>>>> geography or
>>>>> whatever the article is about!
>>>>> This seems like a big new project, doesn't it?
>>>>> is my thought...
>>>>> Do we have volunteers to help us write one test-article for a new
>>>>> encyclopedia written in ASL?
>>>>> It will be our FIRST article for an encyclopedia in  
>>>>> a test
>>>>> drive. Then we can show the document to those at Wikimedia and to
>>>>> others too...It will be an historic and interesting adventure...
>>>>> I know many of you are already overloaded with projects, so only
>>>>> volunteer if you feel you have the time. We could create an
>>>>> Encylopedia team of writers, and each person could take a small
>>>>> section of the translation and writing...
>>>>> And there is no rush and no deadline.
>>>>> Plus we need to choose the one article we want to write...
>>>>> But before we choose the article, is there anyone interested in
>>>>> volunteering to write an article for an Encyclopedia?
>>>>> Once we have a few volunteers, I will write to the Wikimedia  
>>>>> language
>>>>> committee to suggest that maybe they can choose one article for  
>>>>> us to
>>>>> translate from the Wikipedia in English online...
>>>>> Those are my thoughts...
>>>>> What are yours?
>>>>> Val ;-)
>>>>> Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
>>>>> Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos.
>>> -- 
>>> Jonathan & Yolaine Duncan
>>> 8-)  & ;-)
>> !DSPAM:462f8e3d160344897514859!
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