SVG version of our IMWA symbols

Stuart Thiessen sw at PASSITONSERVICES.ORG
Thu Apr 26 02:57:51 UTC 2007

AFAIK, on a browser, everything is cached unless the server indicates  
it should not be. So I wouldn't be too worried about that.


On Apr 25, 2007, at 18:19, Jonathan wrote:

> Valerie Sutton wrote:
>> SignWriting List
>> April 25, 2007
>> Yes, that is correct. Steve Slevinski asked for the SVG version of  
>> our symbols for I will put that as a  
>> is my responsibility to finish the IMWA so we can  
>> move forward with SVG...
>> It will take some time for me to complete the IMWA 1.4 in bitmaps,  
>> but I hope to do that this year, the sooner the better, and then  
>> the entire IMWA 1.4 will need to be placed into SVG...Machado has  
>> already done a lot of the symbols in it is a matter of  
>> making sure that every new symbol is added to the current set of  
>> SVG...
>> And I know there are different typeface designs that can be done  
>> in SVG, so there can be different writing styles of the same  
>> symbols and it may be that someday there will be different sets of  
>> SVG so we can choose typefaces...
>> I read your message below, Jonathan, and the problem is, I am not  
>> a programmer. I just want to provide every programmer with what  
>> they need, to program using SignWriting.
>     Val,
>        I am glad you are working on getting the symbols to SVG as  
> well.  I guess it really is the best option for the online  
> community.  The project that I am working in my spare time is using  
> the PNG format which are working very well for my needs.  I'm sure  
> that Steve and Sandy will be for of the first to use the SVG  
> symbols and I probably will follow not long after.
>> I understand your concerns about SVG taking bandwidth, if you do  
>> not have a stable internet connection, and it may be that in  
>> countries where that is the norm, another version of the symbols  
>> in bitmap form will be necessary...I have to leave that to the  
>> programming experts...
> After all, the SVG will probably the better way even if it couldn't  
> be cached because only a few or even one symbols needs to be  
> downloaded to do all 96 fills and rotations.
>> SVG is easier than creating True Type fonts the old I can  
>> see it has value, because the symbols look better on the screen  
>> and they reduce with better quality I believe...
> BTW do you know if Stephan ever finished our sign names as fonts?
>> Thanks for all your messages, Jonathan!
>> it is hard to keep up with so many messages these days!
> So many great lists to be eh? :-)
>> Val ;-)
>> ----------
>> On Apr 25, 2007, at 10:07 AM, Steve Slevinski wrote:
>>> Jonathan,
>>> I am the one requesting an SVG
>>> Jonathan wrote:
>>>> An SVG version of the IMWA symbols seems exciting.  I was  
>>>> wondering we advantages this might have.  I know that currently  
>>>> the PNG symbols are cacheable so this is better for us that have  
>>>> lower bandwidth as we only have to get each symbol once. I  
>>>> briefly looked into the SVG and it seems to be inline so it  
>>>> comes as part of the web page.  I don't think that it would be  
>>>> cacheable but I could be wrong. If the SVG is part of the page,  
>>>> then the browser wouldn't have to get each symbol one by one, it  
>>>> would load faster on the browser but the server would have to  
>>>> resend the symbol on each web page refresh so it might be a bit  
>>>> longer to load each page for those of us with lower bandwith.   
>>>> Though on second thought, if we don't have to get each rotation  
>>>> it might even be faster.
>>>>     I was thinking on the savings are far as rotations  for only  
>>>> the handshapes using the SVG.  Presently there are about 207  
>>>> hand shapes with 6 distinct fills rotated 8 different positions  
>>>> then mirrored and rotated another 8 positions.  So for each of  
>>>> the 207 there are 6 fills X 16 rotations = 96 symbols per hand  
>>>> shape.  207 handshapes X 96 symbols each =  19872 handshape  
>>>> symbols.  Now if we only had to draw the 6 fills for the 207  
>>>> handshapes, we would only have to define 207 X 6 =  1242 symbols  
>>>> which SVG could easily mirror and rotate all the ways we wanted  
>>>> to.  So with SVG we would only need to define 6% of the current  
>>>> handshape symbols.  That's like 94% improvement. Not bad!!! Some  
>>>> of the other arrows etc can also be rotated and flipped to make  
>>>> up the full set. However there wouldn't be any savings as far as  
>>>> the face symbols or some of the punctuation is concerned.
>>>>     I guess when we have made a few, we will have a better idea  
>>>> how they compare in size to the PNG symbols.  I wonder if they  
>>>> would be any smaller as many symbols have a lot of parts that  
>>>> have to be described.  The median PNG symbol file size is only  
>>>> 232 bytes.  It going to be hard to beat that but with a 90-94%  
>>>> savings from rotating them on the SVG I guess it would really be  
>>>> worth it.
>>>>     I the other more immediate benefit would be that they are  
>>>> easily scalable.  This would be better for captioning or people  
>>>> who have bad eyesight.
>>>> What else have your learned about doing the IMWA in SVG?
>>>> Jonathan
>>>>> I am going to step out in the beautiful Springtime air and be  
>>>>> back shortly -
>>>>> Val ;-)
>>>>> -----------
>>>>> On Apr 21, 2007, at 11:29 AM, Cherie Wren wrote:
>>>>>> I volunteer to help...
>>>>>> cherie
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----
>>>>>> From: Valerie Sutton <sutton at>
>>>>>> To: List SignWriting <sw-l at>
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 8:41:27 PM
>>>>>> Subject: [sw-l] Wikipedia American Sign Language
>>>>>> SignWriting List
>>>>>> April 20, 2007
>>>>>> Hello SW List Members!
>>>>>> As you all know, recently there has been interest in creating a
>>>>>> possible ASL Wikipedia, or at least, the beginning of writing an
>>>>>> Encyclopedia in ASL...
>>>>>> Since we are new to writing and posting documents on the web,  
>>>>>> in our
>>>>>> SignPuddle 1.5 Literature Puddle online, I realize that this is a
>>>>>> very big leap forward, to start writing encyclopedia articles  
>>>>>> in ASL!
>>>>>> To write such an article, we would need to either choose an  
>>>>>> article
>>>>>> already written in another encyclopedia, and then translate it  
>>>>>> from
>>>>>> English to ASL and then write it in SignWriting in SignText...
>>>>>> or...
>>>>>> write it directly from our own knowledge of physics, or  
>>>>>> geography or
>>>>>> whatever the article is about!
>>>>>> This seems like a big new project, doesn't it?
>>>>>> is my thought...
>>>>>> Do we have volunteers to help us write one test-article for a new
>>>>>> encyclopedia written in ASL?
>>>>>> It will be our FIRST article for an encyclopedia in  
>>>>>> a test
>>>>>> drive. Then we can show the document to those at Wikimedia and to
>>>>>> others too...It will be an historic and interesting adventure...
>>>>>> I know many of you are already overloaded with projects, so only
>>>>>> volunteer if you feel you have the time. We could create an
>>>>>> Encylopedia team of writers, and each person could take a small
>>>>>> section of the translation and writing...
>>>>>> And there is no rush and no deadline.
>>>>>> Plus we need to choose the one article we want to write...
>>>>>> But before we choose the article, is there anyone interested in
>>>>>> volunteering to write an article for an Encyclopedia?
>>>>>> Once we have a few volunteers, I will write to the Wikimedia  
>>>>>> language
>>>>>> committee to suggest that maybe they can choose one article  
>>>>>> for us to
>>>>>> translate from the Wikipedia in English online...
>>>>>> Those are my thoughts...
>>>>>> What are yours?
>>>>>> Val ;-)
>>>>>> Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
>>>>>> Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos.
>>>> -- 
>>>> Jonathan & Yolaine Duncan
>>>> 8-)  & ;-)
> -- 
> Jonathan & Yolaine Duncan
> 8-)  & ;-)

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