how old children are using SW

Mon Dec 1 19:04:49 UTC 2008

I used it with kids in our elementary program, as young as 4 years old 
(preschool) and they all read and wrote a little bit.  We didn't have the 
time(or administrative support) to keep it going, sadly.

---------------------------------
Cherie Wren
Georgia School for the Deaf
232 Perry Farm Rd
Cave Spring, GA 30124
706-777-2328

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Today's Topics:

   1. how old children are using SignWriting? (Honza)
   2. Re: Animated GIFs of ISWA Hands, Group 1, 2 and 3... (Adam Frost)

----- Message from Honza <honza at ruce.cz> on Mon, 1 Dec 2008 18:40:12 +0100 
-----
To:
"SignWriting List" <sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu>
Subject:
[sw-l] how old children are using SignWriting?
hello everyone, especially you, who work as teachers in Deaf Schools!

I wanna ask you how old children are using SignWriting (at least reading)
My Slovak colleague (opposite number) are making dictionary for children 
of early age (2-6) with SignWriting as well. But I suppose that 
SignWriting can use children at least at age of entering basic school (if 
they are tought about SW). - at least 7 age. 

what are your experiences?
thanks

Honza
----- Message from "Adam Frost" <icemandeaf at gmail.com> on Mon, 1 Dec 2008 
10:55:16 -0800 -----
To:
"SignWriting List" <sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu>
Subject:
Re: [sw-l] Animated GIFs of ISWA Hands, Group 1, 2 and 3...
You should be able to see the symbols now. :-)

Adam

On Dec 1, 2008, at 3:32 AM, Gagnon et Thibeault wrote:

Hi Val, Adam and everyone,

    Yes, I can see both animated GIFs and hand symbols.  But, I don't know 
if I can see a group directory color.

    Best regards,

    André
----- Original Message -----
From: Valerie Sutton
To: SignWriting List
Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 1:29 AM
Subject: Re: [sw-l] Animated GIFs of ISWA Hands, Group 1, 2 and 3...

SignWriting List
November 30, 2008

Thank you, Adam. This is excellent information...thank you for researching 
this.

Andre...I just changed the color background on one page...can you see this 
animation?

http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/iswa/group01/01-01-001-01.html

It now has a blue background...

If that doesn't work, can you tell me what color the background should be 
so you can see it?

Val ;-)

-------

On Nov 30, 2008, at 9:16 PM, Adam Frost wrote:

Actually, Andre has more vision than the Deaf-Blind student I work with. 
She can't see anything except general light and dark. Nothing in between. 
But I have other friends who have the similar vision that Andre seems to 
have, so I know what needs to be done. 

I agree that the Mac works best, but gotta make due with what we have. :-)

Unfortunately after I mimicked the screen that Andre was seeing, I 
realized that he could only see my hands in the GIFs and not the symbols 
as well as the symbols in the group directory. This is because Windows 
makes the background black and text white. It doesn't change the image 
color. So basically because we have a transparent background in our GIFs 
and pngs, the background becomes black. Since the symbols' outlines are 
black, all that can be seen are the white palm facings. 

I haven't found a solution yet, but I am working on it.

Adam

On Nov 30, 2008, at 8:38 PM, Valerie Sutton wrote:

SignWriting List
November 30, 2008

Hello Andre and Adam...
Thanks for your messages...I had hoped Adam, you would know what to do, 
since you interpret for Deaf-Blind, maybe you knew about web sites for 
your friends who are Deaf-Blind...but actually I realize that doesn't 
necessarily follow...

And for Mac users it is much easier...the Mac can reverse the entire 
screen and the reversal is not dependent on any one web browser or kind of 
software...it is built into the operating system...

But Andre is on Windows and in Windows it depends on the web browser I 
believe...

The only thing I can guess is that the images for the symbols that i used 
to create the links to the Animated GIFs...those images in the group 
directories for each symbol have a transparent background...maybe if I 
make the pngs with a white background, then when Andre reverses his web 
browser to see a negative of the images it will be able to reverse 
properly...I will try that later this week Andre...

Meanwhile I am happy you can see the Animated GIFs themselves...that is 
all that really matters!

Val ;-)

----------

On Nov 30, 2008, at 7:21 PM, Gagnon et Thibeault wrote:

Hi Val,

    I tried to look at the front page of signwriting.org.  I clicked on 
Lessons.  I cannot see black backgrounds (hand groups and hand symbols).

    Regards,

    André
----- Original Message -----
From: Valerie Sutton
To: SignWriting List
Cc: Adam Frost
Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 9:41 PM
Subject: Re: [sw-l] Animated GIFs of ISWA Hands, Group 1, 2 and 3...

SignWriting List
November 30, 2008

Andre -
The animated GIFs are Adam's, and the web pages were my design...so this 
has nothing to do with Steve's software...Are you asking us to create a 
special web page for Deaf-Blind?

Adam - Can you help us with this? I need to write some grants so we all 
have money to work...smile...

I guess we need to do a web site that is reversed like a negative versus a 
positive?

Can you view other web pages of mine, Andre? Like the front page of 
signwriting.org? Can you see that?

Val ;-)

--------

On Nov 30, 2008, at 6:39 PM, Gagnon et Thibeault wrote:

Hi Steve,

    I would like to inform you that I cannot see all black backgrounds 
Ihand groups and hand symbols).  I can see only animated GIF.

    Best regards,

    André
----- Original Message -----
From: Valerie Sutton
To: SignWriting List
Cc: Adam Frost
Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 7:00 PM
Subject: [sw-l] Animated GIFs of ISWA Hands, Group 1, 2 and 3...

SignWriting List
November 30, 2008

Hello Everyone!

Adam Frost has created animated GIFs of the ISWA handshapes in Group 1, 
Group 2 and Group 3...

Group 3 is around one-third completed...

Go to:

ISWA Animated GIFs Hands
http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/iswa/category1.html

And click on Groups 1, 2 and 3 to enjoy viewing Adam's animated handshapes 
with palm facing changes...

And you can move from one handshape to the next, using the navigation 
arrows on the top of each page...it is fun to watch them in 
succession....one handshape after the other!

These are very useful...I am planning to add signs that use these 
handshapes, written in SignWriting, underneath the animated GIFs...some 
have some signs already...

Val ;-)

-----------

On Nov 30, 2008, at 10:13 AM, Adam Frost wrote:

After some searching, I found the webpage with the GIF that I created. It 
isn't preatty yet because there is still some working being done, but it 
is here none the less.

http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/iswa/group02/01-02-004-01.html

Adam

On Nov 30, 2008, at 9:58 AM, Adam Frost wrote:

I love this question, and I will tell you why. It shows that you have a 
handle on these handshapes, and you are thinking in real world sense.

As a Lexiconian in the truest sense (I'd love to make an ASL equivalent to 
the Webster Dictionary, but that would be a life work. *wink*), I have 
made the same observations that you have just made. I have also noticed 
that it is rare for native users to realize that they have their hands the 
way that you have just described. This is the reason that the ASL Puddle, 
which is a collaborative dictionary, usually has the first set. The other 
reason is that most people can read the first set easier than the latter. 
;-) The reason I mention this is if and when I were able to create and ASL 
Webster-like dictionary, then there would be something about this in the 
usage or pronunciation guide. 

I know that I am not teaching your class, so I don't know the students. 
But if I were teaching a class that I felt could handle it, I would 
include both in the lessons and tell them that the first set is more of a 
novice way of signing as well as the visual image of how a native 
internally imagines their signing but are actually doing it the second 
way. The reason is in order to do the first set the elbow has to be in an 
awkward position or the wrist has to be painfully bent, whereas the latter 
set does not.

So now that I have rambled, I will answer your questions. :-) If you want 
to have those concepts in the ASL Puddle, you are more than welcome to add 
them. In fact, I think it is better to have both of them so that people 
can compare. As for your second question, I have been creating GIFs of all 
of the current handshapes. Because of everyone being swamped with so many 
projects, it is coming along very slowly. I have done these handshapes 
that you have mentioned, but I don't know if they have been put up on the 
website yet. I am not sure exactly why you are asking because you do 
understand it just fine. I am also surprised that there isn't anything 
about the latter set of handshapes on the website. I just find that odd. 
So I will check to see if my GIFs are on the website or not. If not, maybe 
I can figure something out.

Hope this helps, and I am glad that Val caught this in Digest because I 
never saw it. As always feel free to ask questions. It is the way to 
learn. ;-)

Adam

On Nov 30, 2008, at 9:03 AM, Valerie Sutton wrote:

From: "Natasha Escalada-Westland" <shash90 at hotmail.com>
Date: November 30, 2008 7:33:52 AM PST
To: "SignWriting Listserve" <sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu>
Subject: [sw-l] Handshape question, "Stand" and "Look"
Reply-To: "SignWriting List" <sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu>

Greetings SW colleagues,

I am developing a lesson on teaching classifers and I am debating which 
handshapes to use in my presentation.  The ASL signpuddle dictionary 
cites:

<symbol.php>   and   <symbol.php>   as the handshapes for "stand" and 
"look-at" respectively.

As I look at myself signing these, and as I think of using them as 
classifiers to describe types or ways of standing or looking-at, I see the 
following actual handshapes used:

<symbol.php>  and  <symbol.php>

The "Lessons in SignWriting Web Gallery" explanation of Handshape group 2 
doesn't include the above handsapes, although I do understand them to mean 
index and middle fingers bent slightly at the proximal knuckle.

First question...  Do the signs in the ASL SignPuddle need to be updated 
as written for these concepts?  To keep the fingers straight requires 
unnatural lifting of the shoulder and elbow.

Second question... is there an updated lesson book or handshape list that 
includes the second set of handshapes somwhere on the SignWriting website?

Thank you!

Natasha Escalada-Westland, M.Ed. (D/HH), Macromedia Cert.
www.westlandasl.com

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