High Resolution Images

Valerie Sutton sutton at SIGNWRITING.ORG
Mon Mar 31 23:00:00 UTC 2008


Very interesting, Bill.

I will remember this message when we start the work -

Many thanks, Val

-------



On Mar 31, 2008, at 3:10 PM, Bill Reese wrote:

> Hi Val,
>
> I use AutoCAD to create construction drawings for civil engineering  
> projects.  It's not SVG, it's DXF, but the end result is the  
> similar: avoids raster stair-stepping and pixilation.
>
> It will be very interesting to see what comes of the work you and  
> Steve will be doing with the conversion.  :-)
>
> When doing the translation, leave yourself open for adjustments.   
> Human symbol recognition is of a very high order.  While there needs  
> to be a limit on the variation of a symbol for the perception to be  
> identical, format changes may require those variations.  Therefore,  
> a "clean-cut" representation of the symbol may not necessarily mean  
> a perfectly accurate translation to SVG from PNG, but, rather, one  
> which achieves the same perception.
>
> Bill
>
>
>
> Valerie Sutton wrote:
>>
>> Hi Bill -
>> It is interesting to know that you work with vector graphics...it  
>> is a world I am just learning about -
>>
>> What is your work with vectors?
>>
>> Steve will be creating a Symbol Editor for me to try to turn our  
>> ISWA bitmaps into SVG later...it will be fun for me to learn it ;-))
>>
>> Just in general, when it comes to different typeface styles for  
>> SignWriting symbols...
>>
>> When it comes to beginning readers in any writing system...usually  
>> simple plain symbols, without serifs and fancy swirls...are better  
>> for beginning readers...then later, as the readers become advanced,  
>> the beauty of other typeface designs can be appreciated and read  
>> just as easily...
>>
>> In SignWriting it is no different. A square and a circle have  
>> different meanings in SignWriting. Beginning readers need to be  
>> able to see a clear-cut square and a clear circle...a square that  
>> has rounded corners could be misread as a circle...no need to  
>> confuse people.
>>
>> So I feel the SVG has to be very clear...and most readers of  
>> SignWriting are beginners around the world, as SignWriting  
>> Literature is not plentiful enough yet...although more Literature  
>> is being produced daily and that will change over time...
>>
>> So other typeface designs of SignWriting symbols are welcome, but  
>> our world standard for the SVG needs to start with clean-cut  
>> symbols...
>>
>> But I am impressed with Inkscape...quite an accomplishment...
>>
>>
>> Val ;-)
>>
>> ----------
>>
>>
>> On Mar 31, 2008, at 12:50 PM, Bill Reese wrote:
>>> Adam,
>>>
>>> A straight line is a curve with a radius of infinity.  ;-)
>>>
>>> Almost joking.  I work with vectors every day and have seen a  
>>> drawing done that way.  The "look" of the drawing was as if there  
>>> were lines and curves but it was all done with arcs.   
>>> Theoretically, as long as the visual impact is the same, does it  
>>> matter?  After all, the world isn't flat but try telling that to  
>>> someone who wants something "perfectly flat."  Essentially (and  
>>> simplistically), they're saying they want something that  
>>> approximates the curvature of the earth so that nothing will roll  
>>> on it.
>>>
>>> Bill
>>>
>>>
>>> Adam Frost wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Yes, I agree. Which is why I had a hard time trying to create SVG  
>>>> with SignWriting. Inkscape has no idea which lines are supposed  
>>>> to be curved and which are supposed to be straight when doing  
>>>> batching.
>>>>
>>>> Adam
>>>>
>>>> On Mar 31, 2008, at 12:15 PM, Valerie Sutton wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> SignWriting List
>>>>> March 31, 2008
>>>>>
>>>>> Wow. I didn't realize that Inkscape was how Machado did the SVG  
>>>>> of the IMWA 2004...I thought the software was specifically  
>>>>> developed just for the SignWriting symbols to become SVG...so  
>>>>> this is good news...thanks for informing us!
>>>>>
>>>>> Val ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>> PS. Yesterday I finished the final ID numbers of the ISWA 2008!
>>>>>
>>>>> Now I am cleaning some of the bitmapped graphics, to make the  
>>>>> bitmaps look prettier, while Steve is finishing his new  
>>>>> software....and then we will be testing the ISWA with the new  
>>>>> software...Then we are planning an SVG version of the ISWA  
>>>>> too...so in time, the SVG version of the ISWA will become the  
>>>>> norm is my guess...
>>>>>
>>>>> But one point about the SVG that Steve and I hope to produce of  
>>>>> the ISWA...I am hoping that the squares will be sharp-lined  
>>>>> squares, with clean lines, rather than the tracing effect that  
>>>>> the Inkscape created...then, once our very perfect SVG version  
>>>>> is created, of course others can create different typestyle  
>>>>> effects, such as the Inkscape style...but our original SVG of  
>>>>> the ISWA needs to really look like the original bitmaps except  
>>>>> without the zagged lines...
>>>>>
>>>>> -----------
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mar 31, 2008, at 11:42 AM, Adam Frost wrote:
>>>>>> Yes, it can. That is how the SVG symbols for 2004 were done.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Adam
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mar 31, 2008, at 11:37 AM, Bill Reese wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Stuart,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That looks good!  Looking real quick at Inkscape's online  
>>>>>>> manual, it appears it may be able to do batch conversions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thiessen Stuart wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi! I did a quick test with my namesign with Inkscape. I just  
>>>>>>>> imported the namesign from SignPuddle and then told it to  
>>>>>>>> trace the bitmap. Here are the results. I told it to output  
>>>>>>>> in SVG and OpenDocument Drawing (which is something  
>>>>>>>> OpenOffice can read).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Stuart
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 31 Mar 2008, at 11:34 , Stephen Jones wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Sandy and everyone:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thank you for the offer. I actually had that sign class the  
>>>>>>>>> same day I sent this message so I had to make do with the  
>>>>>>>>> pixelated images. I would be very interested to see the  
>>>>>>>>> software once it is finished!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Stuart:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thank you for the tip on inkscape. I will definitly look  
>>>>>>>>> into that and see what I can come up with.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Valerie:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks for the link to the SVG IMWA 2004.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> To all: so far the class has been going great. All the  
>>>>>>>>> students seem to be picking up sign writing and they ask  
>>>>>>>>> questions to clarify at the end. It will be interesting to  
>>>>>>>>> see how well they will understand it by the end of the class.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>>>> Stephen Jones
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 30, 2008 at 3:20 PM, Sandy Fleming <sandy at scotstext.org 
>>>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Stephen,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> How many signs are you thinking of? I'm working (very  
>>>>>>>>> slowly, I'm
>>>>>>>>> afraid), on software that can produce this sort of thing.  
>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately
>>>>>>>>> it's not ready yet, but I could perhaps produce what you  
>>>>>>>>> want in the
>>>>>>>>> interim if there's not too much of it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You could of course just learn Photoshop, Paint Shop Pro or  
>>>>>>>>> similar!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sandy Fleming
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 2008-03-30 at 15:13 -0400, Stephen Jones wrote:
>>>>>>>>> > Hello all,
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> > I am currently trying to make signs that are about the  
>>>>>>>>> size of half a
>>>>>>>>> > page. Is there an easy way to make the signs larger  
>>>>>>>>> without them
>>>>>>>>> > becoming pixelated? I am making these for use in a  
>>>>>>>>> conversational ASL
>>>>>>>>> > class at my church.
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> > Thanks,
>>>>>>>>> > Stephen Jones
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> > ____________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> > SW-L SignWriting List
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> > Post Message
>>>>>>>>> > SW-L at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> > List Archives and Help
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>>>>>>>>> >
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ____________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> SW-L SignWriting List
>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ____________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> SW-L SignWriting List
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Post Message
>>>>>>>>> SW-L at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Change Email Settings
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ____________________________________________
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> SW-L SignWriting List
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Post Message
>>>>>>>> SW-L at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>> http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Change Email Settings
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ____________________________________________
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> SW-L SignWriting List
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Post Message
>>>>>>> SW-L at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ____________________________________________
>>>>>>
>>>>>> SW-L SignWriting List
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Post Message
>>>>>> SW-L at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
>>>>>>
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>>>>>> http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Change Email Settings
>>>>>> http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sw-l
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ____________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>> SW-L SignWriting List
>>>>>
>>>>> Post Message
>>>>> SW-L at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
>>>>>
>>>>> List Archives and Help
>>>>> http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist/
>>>>>
>>>>> Change Email Settings
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ____________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> SW-L SignWriting List
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ____________________________________________
>>>
>>> SW-L SignWriting List
>>>
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>>>
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>>
>>
>> Val ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>> Valerie Sutton
>> Sutton at SignWriting.org
>>
>> 1. SignWriting
>> Read & Write Sign Languages
>> http://www.SignWriting.org
>>
>> 2. SignPuddle
>> Create SignWriting Documents Online
>> http://www.SignBank.org/signpuddle
>>
>> 3. SignBank
>> SignWriting Desktop Databases
>> http://www.SignBank.org
>>
>> 4. SignWriting List
>> Technical Support: Ask questions to the List
>> http://www.SignWriting.org/forums/swlist
>>
>> 5. SignWriting Literature Project
>> Writing Literature in Sign Languages
>> http://www.SignWriting.org/literature
>>
>> Deaf Action Committee For SignWriting
>> Center For Sutton Movement Writing
>> an educational nonprofit organization
>> P.O. Box 517, La Jolla, CA, 92038, USA
>> tel 858-456-0098   fax 858-456-0020
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________
>>
>> SW-L SignWriting List
>>
>> Post Message
>> SW-L at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
>>
>> List Archives and Help
>> http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist/
>>
>> Change Email Settings
>> http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sw-l
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________
>
> SW-L SignWriting List
>
> Post Message
> SW-L at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
>
> List Archives and Help
> http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist/
>
> Change Email Settings
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Val ;-)



Valerie Sutton
Sutton at SignWriting.org

1. SignWriting
Read & Write Sign Languages
http://www.SignWriting.org

2. SignPuddle
Create SignWriting Documents Online
http://www.SignBank.org/signpuddle

3. SignBank
SignWriting Desktop Databases
http://www.SignBank.org

4. SignWriting List
Technical Support: Ask questions to the List
http://www.SignWriting.org/forums/swlist

5. SignWriting Literature Project
Writing Literature in Sign Languages
http://www.SignWriting.org/literature

Deaf Action Committee For SignWriting
Center For Sutton Movement Writing
an educational nonprofit organization
P.O. Box 517, La Jolla, CA, 92038, USA
tel 858-456-0098   fax 858-456-0020







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